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This is about "knowing."
I pulled it out of the other response about the two questions, because that
was long and this is off to the side of it.

There are people who will say they KNOW that children need structure and
discipline.

There are people who say they KNOW in their being that there is a heaven.
Others KNOW in their being that life is suffering and we are reincarnated many
times but counting them would be pointless and wrong, so just be as virtuous
as you can be this moment and don't think about the rest. There are people
who know uglier things than those, and act on them.


-=-I know that if my child says he is hungry thirsty scared tired lonely
bored, frightened, warm, cold, angry, sad, happy, jolly, full of fun,
comfortable, not hungry, not thirsty and just plain OK then he is right and I have no
right to question or contradict this.-=-

Of all the statements in the original list, this is the one that I would've
chucked out as the least knowable. Or maybe it just needs to be rethought
and rephrased.

Here's another statement that does kinda contradict it:

-=-I trust that my children know what they are capable of and when they are
able to do something. I know that they will ask if they need help not just in
words but In signs that I must learn to detect. I know that if I am asked for
that help I must ask what it is they want me to do and not do what I think
they want.-=-

Children will say "not hungry" when they are, for various reasons. Adults
will say it for even more reasons. Different people will react differently
to that, but taking all statements at face value is to ignore non-verbal signs
and even verbal signs the person was unaware of providing.

-=-I know that if I am asked for that help I must ask what it is they want
me to do and not do what I think they want.-=--=-

In unschooling discussions ALL THE TIME people think they want one thing and
end up finding out they had asked a question that opened up all kinds of
other areas of need. Kinda like this very exchange. Jay asked two questions,
but they were a little window into a big area. Someone asked recently
whether offering a particular video game would be a good way to lure her child home
from school. The question seemed to be about the value of that video game,
but no one could answer that simple question without asking more questions.
Why was the boy in school? Couldn't she just get the game and let him play
it even if he stayed in school? (And many other related questions came up.)
What she wanted to know was NOT "is this one game good enough to lure a
schoolkid toward unschooling?" That question was unanswerable. Any "yes" or "no"
would've been coldly worthless.

[Here I will refrain from going at length into Howard Gardner's writings on
interpersonal and intrapersonal intelligences, but just will insert this
public service reminder that some people have it and some people don't; with some
it looms large, with some it's not a blip, others have a big blip or a
smaller loom.]

A researcher (probably several-to-many by now) started collecting song
lyrics about love to try to puzzle out what love was. He was researching
biochemistry and brain stuff. But there are song lyrics and poetry with huge clues
to what people have known for a long time.
"I feel it in my fingers, I feel it in my toes...
You know I love you, I always will; my mind's made up by the way that I
feel..."


I'll just quote the whole thing, and continue in another post:






I feel it in my fingers, I feel it in my toes
Love is all around me and so the feeling grows
It's written on the wind, it's everywhere I go
So if you really love me, come on and let it show

You know I love you I always will
My mind's made up by the way that I feel
There's no beginning, there'll be no end
'Cause on my love you can depend

I see your face before me, as I lay on my bed
I kinda get to thinking of all the things we said
You gave your promise to me, and I gave mine to you
I need someone beside me in everything I do

You know I love you I always will
My mind's made up by the way that I feel
There's no beginning, there'll be no end
'Cause on my love you can depend

It's written on the wind, it's everywhere I go
So if you really love me, come on and let it show
Come on and let it show

(Reg Presley, of the Troggs, late 60's)






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Rodney and Rebecca Atherton

>What she wanted to know was NOT "is this one game good enough to lure a
>schoolkid toward unschooling?" That question was unanswerable. Any "yes"
or "no"



That "she" was me and what Sandra said it so true. Though I asked about the
game, the inquiry wasn't at all about the game. It was based on a fear; I
was scared that my son would not want to come back home after trying out
public school. Though, after I asked the list I could tell by a few
responses that I was being silly and selfish. I had to reevaluate things.



(He was in public school because he wanted to try it out and I thought,
"well, he'll either do very well and enjoy it or he'll realize that it isn't
all that he imagined it to be." Either way, we would win. But, I was
starting to get scared that he wouldn't want to return home and I panicked!)




<http://www.geocities.com/rebeccawow.geo> Rebecca

Too often we give children answers to remember rather than problems to
solve. -Roger Lewin





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