woodjmac3

I want to pose 2 questions, however before I ask these questions I would like to explain a few things that I know.

I know that if as soon as a baby is born the mother and baby are left to connect then the bond is set for life and the hormones that are released because of this creates a special emotion which will ensure the baby gets the Mothers love whole and unconditional. Any intervention at this time stops the normal bonding and can stop that necessary flow of love. I know this because I feel it in the depths of my being and because I know the lack of connection I felt after the birth of both my boys because they were not given to me straight away.

I know that co-sleeping until the child decides to sleep away from you is the right thing to do, I know this is true because it comes from the depth of my being.

I know when a baby cries its unmet needs should be met straight away, this ensures that the child will grow without a sense of loss and so have to buy and surround itself with things in a desperate need to stop the feeling of loss.

I know that breastfeeding on demand until our children decided to stop is essential to the development of their confidence and the normal health of their body. This too is something I know from the depth of my being.

I know that constant skin or body contact for a child until it decides to crawl away is important to the well being of a child and in fact contrary to popular belief helps the child to gain true independence. This too I know from the depths of my being.

I know that to impose any of my flawed views of the world, much of which is based on a traumatic childhood, is damaging to a child. This I know from the depths of my being.

I know that if my child says he is hungry thirsty scared tired lonely bored, frightened, warm, cold, angry, sad, happy, jolly, full of fun, comfortable, not hungry, not thirsty and just plain OK then he is right and I have no right to question or contradict this.

I trust that my children know what they are capable of and when they are able to do something. I know that they will ask if they need help not just in words but In signs that I must learn to detect. I know that if I am asked for that help I must ask what it is they want me to do and not do what I think they want. This I know from the depths of my being.

I trust that my children's natural curiosity will led them to all sorts of amazing discoveries like how to read and write and add up numbers and do a forward roll and ride a motorbike and anything else they chose to do. I do not have to push cajole set work teach or inspire. They have all the wonder and desire to explore and get to know this world of ours. I know this from the depth of my being.

I know that all that I have stated above is right and if we are to change the world and stop the negative aspects of this world then these are the things we must awaken in the depths of others.

My 2 questions are

1) How come knowing these things I sometimes find it so hard to implement them.

2) As I know these are right am I being conceited or as I believe just more aware than those who do not.

Jay and Family
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschooled52
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Living_Your_Dream
When we have children we either are woken to our past to help us heal or we are oblivious to the pain and we inflict it on our children
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In a message dated 4/14/2005 4:29:18 AM Central Standard Time,
woodjmac3@... writes:

1) How come knowing these things I sometimes find it so hard to implement
them.
~~~

Because you hold too tight to them.

~~~



2) As I know these are right am I being conceited or as I believe just more
aware than those who do not.


~~~
"Knowledge is proud that he has learn'd so much; Wisdom is humble that he
knows no more."
~ William Cowper (1731-1800)
English poet
from The Winter Walk at Noon



Karen
www.badchair.net


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Beverley Coles

Can you explain this comment? I *think* I know what you mean, but just to be sure?
Bright Blessings, Bev x.

tuckervill2@... wrote:

In a message dated 4/14/2005 4:29:18 AM Central Standard Time,
woodjmac3@... writes:

1) How come knowing these things I sometimes find it so hard to implement
them.
~~~

Because you hold too tight to them.

~~~



2) As I know these are right am I being conceited or as I believe just more
aware than those who do not.


~~~
"Knowledge is proud that he has learn'd so much; Wisdom is humble that he
knows no more."
~ William Cowper (1731-1800)
English poet
from The Winter Walk at Noon



Karen
www.badchair.net


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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See?
Karen's short answers were great.

Maybe no more helpful than my mondo-long and still unfinished one, but still
elegant and to the point.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gold Standard

>>1) How come knowing these things I sometimes find it so hard to implement
them.<<

This answer I believe is personal to you. The things that are hard for me
will be different than the things that are hard for you, and for different
reasons. We each have our own personal struggles with being "perfect
parents" since we each have had different issues with our own parents, our
belief systems/religious brainwashings, societal influences, etc. In a
moment when you are finding it hard, I would ask yourself the question, "why
does this particular part of parenting bother me?" and dig deep for the
answer. Maybe you like to be in control and giving that up to be
"subservient" is hard, or maybe you were not fully loved and therefore it
just doesn't come easily. I nursed four kids for nine years straight, much
of the time tandem-nursing while being pregnant, and I had to work on a
daily basis to let go of irritability and fill myself with love. I was not
taken care of that way when I was little so it wasn't part of my
conditioning, and I was charting a new course for my children. It is a brave
and challenging thing to do! And as you obviously know, as important work as
there is. If there is someone you trust to work these issues out with, that
is often helpful too. I utilize RC...re-evaluation co-counseling, which is
a peer listening program that allows each person to simply get their
emotions out. That allows us to think and act better. Simple, but VERY
powerful and VERY effective. It's not always easy to figure out the "why" of
how we are, but we are in complete power to make changes by getting out the
negative crap. Just a thought.

>>2) As I know these are right am I being conceited or as I believe just
more aware than those who do not.<<

It sounds like you have conviction. I try to be careful with conviction,
since I have so often changed my thinking as I've gotten older and had new
experiences, even the thinking that was absolute conviction. I do agree with
much of what you wrote. It reminds me of the days when my kids were younger
and I was a fierce mama lion protecting my cubs. It is a gift to those
little ones.

Jacki

nellebelle

>>>>>>>>>I know that if as soon as a baby is born the mother and baby are left to connect then the bond is set for life and the hormones that are released because of this creates a special emotion which will ensure the baby gets the Mothers love whole and unconditional. Any intervention at this time stops the normal bonding and can stop that necessary flow of love. I know this because I feel it in the depths of my being and because I know the lack of connection I felt after the birth of both my boys because they were not given to me straight away.>>>>>>>>>>>

Just because one thing is true, does not mean it's opposite is false.

Yes, immediate bonding is a good thing. However, I could share my story and I'm sure there are many others, where interventions did occur yet the mother and child still are able to experience whole and unconditional love.

Breastfeeding and family bed are ideal, but I have a dear freind who bottle fed and used cribs and even *gasp* sends her kids to school, yet they are a very close, loving family.

I know a woman who breastfeeds, does the family bed and says she unschools, yet there are many problems in her family.

So, having ideals and striving to meet them in our own life is a good thing, but it doesn't mean that others won't be able to accomplish some of the same things through different lifestyles.

Mary Ellen

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-----Original Message-----
From: woodjmac3 <woodjmac3@...>


I want to pose 2 questions, however before I ask these questions I
would like to
explain a few things that I know.

-=-=-=- Fine. Except I'm here to refute a lot of it because I "know"
otherwise.

I know that if as soon as a baby is born the mother and baby are left
to connect
then the bond is set for life and the hormones that are released
because of this
creates a special emotion which will ensure the baby gets the Mothers
love whole
and unconditional. Any intervention at this time stops the normal
bonding and
can stop that necessary flow of love. I know this because I feel it in
the
depths of my being and because I know the lack of connection I felt
after the
birth of both my boys because they were not given to me straight away.

-=-=-=-=-=-

Bonding's nice, but that's a crock. I know adopted children who never
saw their birth moms, but who are happy and contented, who receive
their adoptive moms' whole and unconditional love. I know moms whose
children were put to the breast immediately, yet who can't stand to be
around their own children.

-==-=-=-

I know that co-sleeping until the child decides to sleep away from you
is the
right thing to do, I know this is true because it comes from the depth
of my
being.

-=-=-=-

My babies slept with me but had cribs. I'd never heard of a family bed
until I started reading on these unschooling lists and message boards.
It may be the "right" thing, and I wish I had done it---but there seems
to be no lasting damage to my darling boys.

-=-=-=-=-

I know when a baby cries its unmet needs should be met straight away,
this
ensures that the child will grow without a sense of loss and so have to
buy and
surround itself with things in a desperate need to stop the feeling of
loss.

-=-=-=-=-

Late to this attachment parenting thang, but my babies cried plenty
until I could meet their needs. Amazingly, they don't surround
themselves witth things to avoid that desperate feeling of loss. I see
MUCH more of this behavior by children whose parents are just plain
mean---it has nothing to do with babies' cries.

-=-=-=-

I know that breastfeeding on demand until our children decided to stop
is
essential to the development of their confidence and the normal health
of their
body. This too is something I know from the depth of my being.

-=-=-=-=-

Would have been nice to know all this years ago. Bummer. I nursed
Cameron until he was nine months old. Duncan was a whopping four
months. Again, amazingly they're VERY confident and healthy. Genetics,
maybe?

-=-=-=-=-

I know that constant skin or body contact for a child until it decides
to crawl
away is important to the well being of a child and in fact contrary to
popular
belief helps the child to gain true independence. This too I know from
the
depths of my being.

Ooops. No sling here. Beautiful German Kinderwagon (stroller). Both
crawled "on time" and are just as independent as they need to be. I
think it has more to do with attitude and kindness.

-=-=-=-

I know that to impose any of my flawed views of the world, much of
which is
based on a traumatic childhood, is damaging to a child. This I know
from the
depths of my being.

-=-=-=-=-

Not sure what flawed world views you have, but I share what I know and
what I've learned. NOT sharing and them having them learn about it
later when it's been kept secret could possibly much more damaging.

-=-=-=-=-=-

I know that if my child says he is hungry thirsty scared tired lonely
bored,
frightened, warm, cold, angry, sad, happy, jolly, full of fun,
comfortable, not
hungry, not thirsty and just plain OK then he is right and I have no
right to
question or contradict this

-=-=-=-=-

Maybe. But some kids (and many adults) will tell you one thing when
they mean another. Three year olds are quite interested in doing this.
It's part of their learning process. It's up to us to develop the trust
for them to be honest with us---or even to learn to express exactly
what it is they're trying to get across. Overly simple example: "My
throoat hurts." Possible ear infection. Don't jump to conclusions
because they *say* one thing. ....and always keep an extra jacket in
the car. <g>

-=-=-=-=-

I trust that my children's natural curiosity will led them to all sorts
of
amazing discoveries like how to read and write and add up numbers and
do a
forward roll and ride a motorbike and anything else they chose to do. I
do not
have to push cajole set work teach or inspire. They have all the wonder
and
desire to explore and get to know this world of ours. I know this from
the depth
of my being.

-=-==-

As an unschooling parent, I think it is *imperative* to inspire.

-=-=-=-=-

I know that all that I have stated above is right and if we are to
change the
world and stop the negative aspects of this world then these are the
things we
must awaken in the depths of others.

-=-=-=-=

Well, I've just proved several things wrong.

I also know that I cannot "awaken" these changes in others if they
don't want to change. I KNOW I can only change myself.


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

My 2 questions are

1) How come knowing these things I sometimes find it so hard to
implement them.

-=-=-=-

Because they aren't all true They may be the ideal to strive for. I
would certainly have implemented more of them had I known about them
earlier. But it's not too late to get all your shit on one sock and
become a better parent.

-=-=-=-=-


2) As I know these are right am I being conceited or as I believe just
more
aware than those who do not.

-=-=-=-=-

I think you're still learning and living. None of what you mentioned
are absolutes. There are variables within every situation, within every
family, within every person.

~Kelly

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/14/2005 2:20:08 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
kbcdlovejo@... writes:

As an unschooling parent, I think it is *imperative* to inspire.



I think so too. Inspiration is glorious. I love to find it in other
people's ideas and jokes and art and flower gardens, and if things I write or do
inspire other people, tra la! Good! Maybe the original writer meant to
disparage pressuring someone, hounding them, not inspiring. Inspire is a breath,
no more. Literally the word is to put breath into something/someone. Second
literal definition: To lend spirit to someone. Spirit means breath.



I'd really like to get back to this discussion, and I liked Kelly's example
of the earache. People don't always really know what their problem is. A
week and a half ago, Keith mentioned several times in one day that he was
getting old and probably should drop out of the SCA. What he didn't say (because
he didn't know) was that he was developing a huge abcess in his lower abdomen
that eventually surpassed 7cm and made him too sick to watch TV. Has I
spent a lot of time and energy discussing future SCA plans and the realities of
aging, I'd've TOTALLY missed the point.

Gotta go to the hospital so Kirby to visit his dad.

Sandra




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Gold Standard

>>Gotta go to the hospital so Kirby to visit his dad.<<
>>Sandra<<

All the best to you and yours Sandra in this time of health challenge. I
hope that Keith recovers well and easily. You all will be in our thoughts.

My dh just returned home from a 9 day stint in the hospital, 5 of those days
in the ICU. Seems after he attained his purple belt in karate, he told our
11 yo ds to punch him in the stomach (a bizarre tradition between these
normally gentle guys at the dojo after one attains their next belt,
typically done gently). But DH said, "Give it all you got!". DS didn't, gave
a little punch cuz that made more sense and DH said, "Really Cam, give it
all you got! I've been doing crunches for a whole year now! See how hard my
stomach is?!" and so Cam, our karate kid, gave it all he had. DH thanked
him, we had a nice evening all together, went to bed, and the next morning
he was taken to said hospital by ambulance with what seemed to be a heart
attack. Nope. It was internal bleeding from a ruptured spleen. Spleen
removed. DDH recovering. Cam feeling no guilt as he says, "I told him it was
a bad idea."

Morals of the story: 1)Even in our most fit times, we can be really dumb.

2)If your kid doesn't want to hit you, don't make him.

Other morals of the story welcome!

Take Care Sandra!
Jacki

[email protected]

My dh just returned home from a 9 day stint in the hospital, 5 of those
days
in the ICU. Seems after he attained his purple belt in karate, he told
our
11 yo ds to punch him in the stomach (a bizarre tradition between these
normally gentle guys at the dojo after one attains their next belt,
typically done gently). But DH said, "Give it all you got!". DS didn't,
gave
a little punch cuz that made more sense and DH said, "Really Cam, give
it
all you got! I've been doing crunches for a whole year now! See how
hard my
stomach is?!" and so Cam, our karate kid, gave it all he had. DH thanked
him, we had a nice evening all together, went to bed, and the next
morning
he was taken to said hospital by ambulance with what seemed to be a
heart
attack. Nope. It was internal bleeding from a ruptured spleen. Spleen
removed. DDH recovering. Cam feeling no guilt as he says, "I told him
it was
a bad idea."

Morals of the story: 1)Even in our most fit times, we can be really
dumb.

2)If your kid doesn't want to hit you, don't make him.

Other morals of the story welcome!

-=-=-=-=-=-


OOHooohOOOH!

HOUDINI! But he didn't survive! Hope your hubby is up and about soon!

~Kelly








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In a message dated 4/14/2005 4:04:30 PM Central Standard Time,
jacki@... writes:

1)Even in our most fit times, we can be really dumb.

2)If your kid doesn't want to hit you, don't make him.



~~~

These really cracked me up. Sigline material, for sure.

lol,
Karen

www.badchair.net


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In a message dated 4/14/2005 4:21:58 PM Central Standard Time,
bev.coles@... writes:

Can you explain this comment? I *think* I know what you mean, but just to be
sure?
Bright Blessings, Bev x.




~~~

Gripping something so tightly that it prevents you from grasping at anything
else could cause you to miss something really, really important. We don't
know what we don't know.

Karen

www.badchair.net


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