Situation too close to home!
mozafamily
Someone I know is being threatened by family services saying that
their 9 year old needs to be medicated for ADHD! Trying to say that
the child will be put on medications or they will remove the child
from the home as being neglected. They started homeschooling last
year because they didn't want to put him on meds and they were tired
of defending their position to the school, so the mom decided to buy
a curriculum and homeschool him of which he is excelling at! The
father is a former meth addict, an addiction that he belives was
caused by having been medicated with stimulants for his supposed
ADHD as a child - so he will do ANYTHING to keep his child off the
drugs and now they are coming after them! This is just too close to
home for me! I am giving them the number for the HSDLA but I don't
know how else I can help.
I have also been digging information about the IDEA act which says
the officials are in the wrong just by stating that "the child needs
medication". BUT here (in Missouri) they just in May of this year
passed in a federal court that a child MUST be evaluated for mental
health because of the same law - the IDEA, the Child Find part
supposedly gives them permission. The family services/school
officials even told this family that they would pay for them to the
University for evaluation - This is where I had the horrible
experience having my son evaluated (eyeopening for me - Never went
back) - They're so in the drug companies pockets that EVERYONE they
see has ADHD - URGH! BUT just because they have to be evaluated
DOESN'T mean that the parents MUST follow the treatment.
Apparently also there is a "Child medication safety act" that
would prohibit parents from being coerced into administrating
psychiatric drugs to their children but it is stuck in the Senate
after passing in a landslide vote (425 to 1) in the House of Reps
during May of 2003.
Can anyone think of anything else I could tell the parents to
help? Anything you could add to reassure me so I'll calm down? Way
too close to home!!! Moza
their 9 year old needs to be medicated for ADHD! Trying to say that
the child will be put on medications or they will remove the child
from the home as being neglected. They started homeschooling last
year because they didn't want to put him on meds and they were tired
of defending their position to the school, so the mom decided to buy
a curriculum and homeschool him of which he is excelling at! The
father is a former meth addict, an addiction that he belives was
caused by having been medicated with stimulants for his supposed
ADHD as a child - so he will do ANYTHING to keep his child off the
drugs and now they are coming after them! This is just too close to
home for me! I am giving them the number for the HSDLA but I don't
know how else I can help.
I have also been digging information about the IDEA act which says
the officials are in the wrong just by stating that "the child needs
medication". BUT here (in Missouri) they just in May of this year
passed in a federal court that a child MUST be evaluated for mental
health because of the same law - the IDEA, the Child Find part
supposedly gives them permission. The family services/school
officials even told this family that they would pay for them to the
University for evaluation - This is where I had the horrible
experience having my son evaluated (eyeopening for me - Never went
back) - They're so in the drug companies pockets that EVERYONE they
see has ADHD - URGH! BUT just because they have to be evaluated
DOESN'T mean that the parents MUST follow the treatment.
Apparently also there is a "Child medication safety act" that
would prohibit parents from being coerced into administrating
psychiatric drugs to their children but it is stuck in the Senate
after passing in a landslide vote (425 to 1) in the House of Reps
during May of 2003.
Can anyone think of anything else I could tell the parents to
help? Anything you could add to reassure me so I'll calm down? Way
too close to home!!! Moza
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/10/2004 7:07:21 PM Mountain Standard Time,
mozafamily@... writes:
Can anyone think of anything else I could tell the parents to
help? Anything you could add to reassure me so I'll calm down?
--------------
Let them test him and let them get the prescription.
Let them object in writing, and keep extensive notes on dates and times of
everything involved.
None of that means they have to actually give him the meds.
But...
If he's homeschooled, who's pressing for this action?
Relatives?
Special ed folk at school hoping they can get him back there?
Remind them to deal in writing (WITH COPIES) and if it's relatives that's the
worst.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mozafamily@... writes:
Can anyone think of anything else I could tell the parents to
help? Anything you could add to reassure me so I'll calm down?
--------------
Let them test him and let them get the prescription.
Let them object in writing, and keep extensive notes on dates and times of
everything involved.
None of that means they have to actually give him the meds.
But...
If he's homeschooled, who's pressing for this action?
Relatives?
Special ed folk at school hoping they can get him back there?
Remind them to deal in writing (WITH COPIES) and if it's relatives that's the
worst.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Hill
**Someone I know is being threatened by family services saying that
their 9 year old needs to be medicated for ADHD! Trying to say that the
child will be put on medications or they will remove the child from the
home as being neglected.**
That's just so unreasonable. I would think the best protection, even if
it was expensive, would be an evaluation from a pediatrician who
specified that the child did NOT need Ritalin. Or at least stated that
taking Ritalin could cause some harm. (And I think it's fine to ask
for recommendations and cherry-pick a doctor that doesn't think drugs
are good for kids. It's highly probable that CPS picks their experts in
a biased way, too.)
So talk to everyone you know locally to find a cool doctor and other
anti-Ritalin experts.
Also, research the cons and pros of Ritalin on the internet. I believe
it supresses appetite and can cause insomnia. You may also find
information linking it to drug addiction. It can't hurt to be
well-informed.
**I have also been digging information about the IDEA act which says the
officials are in the wrong just by stating that "the child needs
medication".**
I think Conneticut passed a law addressing the problem of teachers
effectively "prescribing" Ritalin by saying that certain kids would be
kicked out of school unless they took the pills. But I suppose that
doesn't help anyone in Missouri.
Betsy
their 9 year old needs to be medicated for ADHD! Trying to say that the
child will be put on medications or they will remove the child from the
home as being neglected.**
That's just so unreasonable. I would think the best protection, even if
it was expensive, would be an evaluation from a pediatrician who
specified that the child did NOT need Ritalin. Or at least stated that
taking Ritalin could cause some harm. (And I think it's fine to ask
for recommendations and cherry-pick a doctor that doesn't think drugs
are good for kids. It's highly probable that CPS picks their experts in
a biased way, too.)
So talk to everyone you know locally to find a cool doctor and other
anti-Ritalin experts.
Also, research the cons and pros of Ritalin on the internet. I believe
it supresses appetite and can cause insomnia. You may also find
information linking it to drug addiction. It can't hurt to be
well-informed.
**I have also been digging information about the IDEA act which says the
officials are in the wrong just by stating that "the child needs
medication".**
I think Conneticut passed a law addressing the problem of teachers
effectively "prescribing" Ritalin by saying that certain kids would be
kicked out of school unless they took the pills. But I suppose that
doesn't help anyone in Missouri.
Betsy
Marie White
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
him on Ritalin. And we told the school that he WAS
actually taking the drugs, although, of course, he
wasn't. A month later, they told me how much better
he was doing - see, there was no reason to be
concerned, the drug was A Good Thing. Uh-huh. Can we
say placebo for the teachers??
We're now homeschooling. My 8 year old and I are
trying hard to make unschooling look like "real
school" to Daddy. (No, it's not really working) And
if he needs to wear off some energy, he heads outside
in the back yard.
Marie
=====
http://www.fmwriters.com/community/dc/progress_bar/Vulpie_s_Leah.png
> Let them test him and let them get the prescription.That's exactly what we did when my son's school wanted
> Let them object in writing, and keep extensive notes
> on dates and times of
> everything involved.
>
> None of that means they have to actually give him
> the meds.
him on Ritalin. And we told the school that he WAS
actually taking the drugs, although, of course, he
wasn't. A month later, they told me how much better
he was doing - see, there was no reason to be
concerned, the drug was A Good Thing. Uh-huh. Can we
say placebo for the teachers??
We're now homeschooling. My 8 year old and I are
trying hard to make unschooling look like "real
school" to Daddy. (No, it's not really working) And
if he needs to wear off some energy, he heads outside
in the back yard.
Marie
=====
http://www.fmwriters.com/community/dc/progress_bar/Vulpie_s_Leah.png
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/10/2004 8:17:45 PM Mountain Standard Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:
I would think the best protection, even if
it was expensive, would be an evaluation from a pediatrician who
specified that the child did NOT need Ritalin.
=========
That's a better idea than mine.
Scratch mine.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ecsamhill@... writes:
I would think the best protection, even if
it was expensive, would be an evaluation from a pediatrician who
specified that the child did NOT need Ritalin.
=========
That's a better idea than mine.
Scratch mine.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Hill
**
That's a better idea than mine.
Scratch mine. **
I thought yours made sense, too. How the heck would they know if you were administering it or not? Surely the law doesn't permit them to come to your house every day and watch you child swallow it? And I doubt they would be that energetic. <g> But I suppose they could try to insist on a pharmacy receipt showing that the prescription had been filled once. And maybe they could do that over and over? Providing that kind of proof would get expensive.
I was wondering if it was possible to appeal to either the administration at the university or the licensing board for psychiatrists or psychologists on *ethical grounds*? Even a kid who might be helped by Ritalin at school wouldn't require it at home. And we can't be the only people who have reservations about prescribing drugs where there may be a genetic predisposition to addiction. (How about a letter from the father's doctor stating that Ritalin would be risky in this family?)
Betsy
PS I'm not sure if the goal is to make the parents medicate the child, or to trap the parents into lying. Both Martha Stewart and Bill Clinton got into more trouble for the lie than for the unethical act (allegedly) committed.
That's a better idea than mine.
Scratch mine. **
I thought yours made sense, too. How the heck would they know if you were administering it or not? Surely the law doesn't permit them to come to your house every day and watch you child swallow it? And I doubt they would be that energetic. <g> But I suppose they could try to insist on a pharmacy receipt showing that the prescription had been filled once. And maybe they could do that over and over? Providing that kind of proof would get expensive.
I was wondering if it was possible to appeal to either the administration at the university or the licensing board for psychiatrists or psychologists on *ethical grounds*? Even a kid who might be helped by Ritalin at school wouldn't require it at home. And we can't be the only people who have reservations about prescribing drugs where there may be a genetic predisposition to addiction. (How about a letter from the father's doctor stating that Ritalin would be risky in this family?)
Betsy
PS I'm not sure if the goal is to make the parents medicate the child, or to trap the parents into lying. Both Martha Stewart and Bill Clinton got into more trouble for the lie than for the unethical act (allegedly) committed.
mozafamily
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
services! Luckily the family is okey with homeschooling, the mom
only bought the curriculum because she hadn't realized that things
like "relaxed homeschooling" and "unschooling" even existed - This
has been a real eye opener for the family in that aspect, and if
they can get past this horrible situation they plan to move towards
much more child-centered learning! I'm going to suggest that they
offer to have him evaluated by a qualified dr. of their choosing and
then give social services a copy of the evaluation. I'm hoping that
is going to get them to a better situation than they are now. Thank
you!
> But...Yes, apparently it was his former teacher from ps who alerted social
> If he's homeschooled, who's pressing for this action?
> Relatives?
> Special ed folk at school hoping they can get him back there?
services! Luckily the family is okey with homeschooling, the mom
only bought the curriculum because she hadn't realized that things
like "relaxed homeschooling" and "unschooling" even existed - This
has been a real eye opener for the family in that aspect, and if
they can get past this horrible situation they plan to move towards
much more child-centered learning! I'm going to suggest that they
offer to have him evaluated by a qualified dr. of their choosing and
then give social services a copy of the evaluation. I'm hoping that
is going to get them to a better situation than they are now. Thank
you!
Robyn Coburn
<<<< Someone I know is being threatened by family services saying that
their 9 year old needs to be medicated for ADHD! Trying to say that
the child will be put on medications or they will remove the child
from the home as being neglected. >>>>>
HSLDA is not the only legal group that can assist homeschoolers.
www.nheld.com may have additional information and lawyer referrals who don't
have any additional political agenda than helping homeschoolers.
What does their own doctor say?
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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their 9 year old needs to be medicated for ADHD! Trying to say that
the child will be put on medications or they will remove the child
from the home as being neglected. >>>>>
HSLDA is not the only legal group that can assist homeschoolers.
www.nheld.com may have additional information and lawyer referrals who don't
have any additional political agenda than helping homeschoolers.
What does their own doctor say?
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.782 / Virus Database: 528 - Release Date: 10/22/2004
huntmom1996
Hi, I am certain (as a former teacher, ugh!) that ADHD *must* be
diagnosed by a pediatrician or other medical professional. They
should definately seek out a dr. and they will have to fill out some
sort of behavior scale (with forms for dr, school and home).....I say
to fudge the data on the scale, too. In my experience, the ADHD
attributes were almost always only present in school.
Hmmmm.....child problem or school problem? LOL.
Jessica
In [email protected], "mozafamily" <mozafamily@y...>
wrote:
diagnosed by a pediatrician or other medical professional. They
should definately seek out a dr. and they will have to fill out some
sort of behavior scale (with forms for dr, school and home).....I say
to fudge the data on the scale, too. In my experience, the ADHD
attributes were almost always only present in school.
Hmmmm.....child problem or school problem? LOL.
Jessica
In [email protected], "mozafamily" <mozafamily@y...>
wrote:
>social
> --- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
> > But...
> > If he's homeschooled, who's pressing for this action?
> > Relatives?
> > Special ed folk at school hoping they can get him back there?
>
> Yes, apparently it was his former teacher from ps who alerted
> services! Luckily the family is okey with homeschooling, the momand
> only bought the curriculum because she hadn't realized that things
> like "relaxed homeschooling" and "unschooling" even existed - This
> has been a real eye opener for the family in that aspect, and if
> they can get past this horrible situation they plan to move towards
> much more child-centered learning! I'm going to suggest that they
> offer to have him evaluated by a qualified dr. of their choosing
> then give social services a copy of the evaluation. I'm hoping that
> is going to get them to a better situation than they are now. Thank
> you!
kayb85
That's a good idea. There are naturopathic medical doctors who
would be opposed to ritalin, who would examine him and write a
letter saying that it is not medically necessary for him to be on
any drugs for adhd.
Sheila
I'm going to suggest that they
would be opposed to ritalin, who would examine him and write a
letter saying that it is not medically necessary for him to be on
any drugs for adhd.
Sheila
I'm going to suggest that they
> offer to have him evaluated by a qualified dr. of their choosingand
> then give social services a copy of the evaluation. I'm hopingthat
> is going to get them to a better situation than they are now.Thank
> you!
J. Stauffer
<<<Even a kid who might be helped by Ritalin at school wouldn't require it
at home. >>>
Most of the kids I have worked with who took Ritalin didn't take it on
weekends or over the summer, with the support of their doctors.
Julie S.
at home. >>>
Most of the kids I have worked with who took Ritalin didn't take it on
weekends or over the summer, with the support of their doctors.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth Hill" <ecsamhill@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Situation too close to home!
>
> **
>
> That's a better idea than mine.
> Scratch mine. **
>
> I thought yours made sense, too. How the heck would they know if you were
administering it or not? Surely the law doesn't permit them to come to
your house every day and watch you child swallow it? And I doubt they would
be that energetic. <g> But I suppose they could try to insist on a
pharmacy receipt showing that the prescription had been filled once. And
maybe they could do that over and over? Providing that kind of proof would
get expensive.
>
> I was wondering if it was possible to appeal to either the administration
at the university or the licensing board for psychiatrists or psychologists
on *ethical grounds*? Even a kid who might be helped by Ritalin at school
wouldn't require it at home. And we can't be the only people who have
reservations about prescribing drugs where there may be a genetic
predisposition to addiction. (How about a letter from the father's doctor
stating that Ritalin would be risky in this family?)
>
> Betsy
>
> PS I'm not sure if the goal is to make the parents medicate the child, or
to trap the parents into lying. Both Martha Stewart and Bill Clinton got
into more trouble for the lie than for the unethical act (allegedly)
committed.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
[email protected]
If they're homeschooling, they don't even have to register in Missouri.
This family needs to kick the state out of their house and quick. There's no
reason they should have to deal with the state at all.
_http://www.dese.state.mo.us/schoollaw/HomeSch/homeschool.htm_
(http://www.dese.state.mo.us/schoollaw/HomeSch/homeschool.htm)
7. The law is permissive in the area of registering. The statute says the
parent may notify the superintendent of schools or the recorder of county deeds
in the county where the parents reside. This is to be done before September
1 annually. However, the law says may, and it is not mandatory.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This family needs to kick the state out of their house and quick. There's no
reason they should have to deal with the state at all.
_http://www.dese.state.mo.us/schoollaw/HomeSch/homeschool.htm_
(http://www.dese.state.mo.us/schoollaw/HomeSch/homeschool.htm)
7. The law is permissive in the area of registering. The statute says the
parent may notify the superintendent of schools or the recorder of county deeds
in the county where the parents reside. This is to be done before September
1 annually. However, the law says may, and it is not mandatory.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/10/2004 10:08:57 PM Central Standard Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:
But I suppose they could try to insist on a pharmacy receipt showing that
the prescription had been filled once. And maybe they could do that over and
over? Providing that kind of proof would get expensive.
~~~
I hear that Ritalin goes for a pretty good price on the black market. ;)
Which reminds me of Sunday's episode of Desparate Housewives.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ecsamhill@... writes:
But I suppose they could try to insist on a pharmacy receipt showing that
the prescription had been filled once. And maybe they could do that over and
over? Providing that kind of proof would get expensive.
~~~
I hear that Ritalin goes for a pretty good price on the black market. ;)
Which reminds me of Sunday's episode of Desparate Housewives.
Karen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mozafamily
--- In [email protected], tuckervill2@a... wrote:
homeschooling. Just in May of this year they upheld in a federal
court (over a Camdenton Missouri case - again TOO CLOSE TO HOME)
that the state has the right to MAKE a child be evaluated under
the "Child Find" section of the IDEA. But that doesn't mean that
they can MAKE a parent give their child psyc. drugs. Now that's what
they're trying to do again in this case, MAKE the child be evaluated
(and in their opinion put on stimulants for ADHD)claiming that the
parents are neglectful for not having their child evaluated, etc.
According to the same act, the IDEA, it is also unlawful for these
same people to even state "he should be on medication"!!! The HSLDA
is opposing the May federal court decision as well. But from my
understanding of the law they don't have the right to call not
putting a child on psyc. meds as neglect and they should not be
threatening to take the child into custody, there are no legal
grounds for their threats!
So that's my take on the situation, that they just don't have a
legal "leg" to stand on. Because today is a holiday they haven't
been able to get any legal contact yet but hopefully on Friday they
will get things more straightened out. I'm feeling somewhat better -
Unfortunately one of my cats was killed last night by a "hit and
run" driver. I am frankly mad at myself because I saw him the day
before just laying in the road and I didn't go and make him leave
but drove around him - I knew then that he was getting too
comfortable with the road. He as always been an "inside/outside"
cat - the first one of those I have ever had, kindof like a dog that
he scratched on the door when he wanted in or out and he seemed so
happy outside - enjoying the world - and up until 2 days ago seemed
to stay away from the road I figured I would let him (not like he
wouldn't continue to scratch at the door until I let him out
anyways.) but now I feel like I could have somehow avoided the
tragedy, Urgh! He was only a little over a year old also!
Anyhow I am off to make some pizza dough for pizza for supper and
also I think my ds wants to bake a cake this afternoon which will
hopefully cheer me up as I really am enjoying his new found interest
in baking. Moza
> If they're homeschooling, they don't even have to register inMissouri.
> This family needs to kick the state out of their house andquick. There's no
> reason they should have to deal with the state at all.says the
>
> _http://www.dese.state.mo.us/schoollaw/HomeSch/homeschool.htm_
> (http://www.dese.state.mo.us/schoollaw/HomeSch/homeschool.htm)
> 7. The law is permissive in the area of registering. The statute
> parent may notify the superintendent of schools or the recorder ofcounty deeds
> in the county where the parents reside. This is to be done beforeSeptember
> 1 annually. However, the law says may, and it is not mandatory.Unfortuately this has nothing to do with the "registering" part of
homeschooling. Just in May of this year they upheld in a federal
court (over a Camdenton Missouri case - again TOO CLOSE TO HOME)
that the state has the right to MAKE a child be evaluated under
the "Child Find" section of the IDEA. But that doesn't mean that
they can MAKE a parent give their child psyc. drugs. Now that's what
they're trying to do again in this case, MAKE the child be evaluated
(and in their opinion put on stimulants for ADHD)claiming that the
parents are neglectful for not having their child evaluated, etc.
According to the same act, the IDEA, it is also unlawful for these
same people to even state "he should be on medication"!!! The HSLDA
is opposing the May federal court decision as well. But from my
understanding of the law they don't have the right to call not
putting a child on psyc. meds as neglect and they should not be
threatening to take the child into custody, there are no legal
grounds for their threats!
So that's my take on the situation, that they just don't have a
legal "leg" to stand on. Because today is a holiday they haven't
been able to get any legal contact yet but hopefully on Friday they
will get things more straightened out. I'm feeling somewhat better -
Unfortunately one of my cats was killed last night by a "hit and
run" driver. I am frankly mad at myself because I saw him the day
before just laying in the road and I didn't go and make him leave
but drove around him - I knew then that he was getting too
comfortable with the road. He as always been an "inside/outside"
cat - the first one of those I have ever had, kindof like a dog that
he scratched on the door when he wanted in or out and he seemed so
happy outside - enjoying the world - and up until 2 days ago seemed
to stay away from the road I figured I would let him (not like he
wouldn't continue to scratch at the door until I let him out
anyways.) but now I feel like I could have somehow avoided the
tragedy, Urgh! He was only a little over a year old also!
Anyhow I am off to make some pizza dough for pizza for supper and
also I think my ds wants to bake a cake this afternoon which will
hopefully cheer me up as I really am enjoying his new found interest
in baking. Moza
Robyn Coburn
<<<Unfortunately one of my cats was killed last night by a "hit and
run" driver.>>>>
Moza, I'm sorry for your loss. The brevity of the time you spent together
doesn't make it any less distressing to lose a unique member of your family,
even a four footed one. I hope you find some peace, it really isn't your
fault.
Robyn L. Coburn
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run" driver.>>>>
Moza, I'm sorry for your loss. The brevity of the time you spent together
doesn't make it any less distressing to lose a unique member of your family,
even a four footed one. I hope you find some peace, it really isn't your
fault.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
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ladyeliza_r
Wow. That does hit close to home. While Sarah was in kindergarten in
MA public schools, we did have her on first Ritalin and then
Adderall. She wasn't eating or sleeping, had lost weight she couldn't
afford to lose, and was becoming very aggressive. The school wanted
her tested for Asperger's Syndrome, ODD, and OCD and insisted that
she not be taken off the medications. When we refused, because we
felt that she was too stressed out, they called social services. That
was a nightmare I don't wish to repeat. She hasn't been on any
medications since the end of Kindergarten though.
Unfortunately, I don't really have any advice for them other than to
hold firm in their belief that they don't need to medicate their
child for ADHD.
Elizabeth
MA public schools, we did have her on first Ritalin and then
Adderall. She wasn't eating or sleeping, had lost weight she couldn't
afford to lose, and was becoming very aggressive. The school wanted
her tested for Asperger's Syndrome, ODD, and OCD and insisted that
she not be taken off the medications. When we refused, because we
felt that she was too stressed out, they called social services. That
was a nightmare I don't wish to repeat. She hasn't been on any
medications since the end of Kindergarten though.
Unfortunately, I don't really have any advice for them other than to
hold firm in their belief that they don't need to medicate their
child for ADHD.
Elizabeth