Gold Standard

Hi All,

I have an interesting new situation (interesting and new to me anyway <g>).
My 14 yo ds has been going to an art high school after unschooling for two
years. He says he's thinking about unschooling again, and two of his friends
want to join him, go figure. They have similar aspirations to make music
together. Now these other two boys' parents have called me saying their sons
want to join my ds "homeschooling", and would I mind talking to them about
that. I had one conversation with one of the moms, and tried to explain that
the way we "homeschool" probably looks different from how she may be
thinking, and went on to talk about learning through living and kids
deciding what they do each day. She's intrigued and interested, but is also
ingrained with typical public school thinking ("Now, how will they keep up
with math exactly?" "I really like your ideas, I believe that way too. I
just need Taylor to keep up with his grade level...how would that work?") I
really have no interest in convincing her of anything, and I certainly have
no interest in "educating" her son. I also will not do anything that would
take away any of my already somewhat stretched energy for my own four. I am
happy to include him when it makes sense for us, and even more than that
sometimes, but not otherwise.

If I were to include these other boys in our unschool environment, I also
wonder whether I should do something to make sure there is no liability
involved. If this evolves into them being over here, do you recommend I put
something in writing for the parents to sign acknowledging that I take no
responsibility for their sons' learning? Seems like crazy/paranoid
questions, but they seem pretty real right now. Has anyone added their kids'
friends from the p.s. system into their days as unschoolers?

Thanks for your help!
Jacki

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/1/2004 1:37:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jacki@... writes:

If I were to include these other boys in our unschool environment, I also
wonder whether I should do something to make sure there is no liability
involved. If this evolves into them being over here, do you recommend I put
something in writing for the parents to sign acknowledging that I take no
responsibility for their sons' learning? Seems like crazy/paranoid
questions, but they seem pretty real right now. Has anyone added their kids'
friends from the p.s. system into their days as unschoolers?<<<<

I wouldn't get all worked up about it. Chances are it won't happen.

I've been asked to be in the same position numerous times----but neither the
parent OR the child is actually willling to go through with it.

They'll be talked out of it by
parents/spouse/in-laws/friends/neighbors/teachers/themselves. They won't want to file the paperwork that the state
requires.
They won't read anything on unschooling, so they won't even learn what it
really is.
They'll still want *proof* in the form of booklists/tests/grades/whatever.

Seriously----don't get worked up over it. It probably won't happen. They
don't really WANT it to happen. If they DO, they can do it themselves. Really.

If they insist, give them a booklist and websites to read. (They won't!)
Then they can make an informed decision and do it themselves. It's THEIR
responsibility, not yours.

~Kelly, BTDT







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gold Standard

In a message dated 10/1/2004 1:37:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jacki@... writes:

>>If I were to include these other boys in our unschool environment, I also
>>wonder whether I should do something to make sure there is no liability
>>involved. If this evolves into them being over here, do you recommend I
put
>>something in writing for the parents to sign acknowledging that I take
no
>>responsibility for their sons' learning? Seems like crazy/paranoid
>>questions, but they seem pretty real right now. Has anyone added their
kids'
>>friends from the p.s. system into their days as unschoolers?<<<<

>I wouldn't get all worked up about it. Chances are it won't happen.

>Seriously----don't get worked up over it. It probably won't happen. They
>don't really WANT it to happen. If they DO, they can do it themselves.
Really.

I appreciate your feedback...I'm not worked up about it. Just a serious
question based on where I think this is going. I had another conversation
with the same mom...she says she's really interested. I know that her
driving force is her son feeling desperate in his school situation and just
wanting out. She works. She wants help for her son. She's asking about him
spending time here. My son wants to create with him. So for my son, it would
be a good situation. The two of them are good friends.

But because she works and isn't available to help her son the way that he's
asking, I think she will settle for what she can get to ease him right now.
Which I foresee puts him here, if we get this worked out. I want to be
prepared. I don't want to be blamed for anything 5 months down the line when
he's not up on his calculus. By agreeing to have him here, I want it to be
real clear what that means. I will certainly continue to give her resources
for reading about unschooling, but I can't make her read them.

I think I'm coming to the conclusion that I'm not going to feel comfortable
without a signed acknowledgement and permission form by the mom. Otherwise,
I have no recourse if things get weird. I have been in a few unfortunate
situations where head nods and "yeah's" did not end up meaning a person
understood or agreed in the end.

Sudbury Valley School has some documents parents have to sign saying things
like "kids do what they want here" so that it's clear they are not taking
responsibility for what kids choose to do each day. I think I'll look that
up.

Any similar situations out there?

Thanks,
Jacki

Elizabeth Hill

**

She's intrigued and interested, but is also
ingrained with typical public school thinking ("Now, how will they keep up
with math exactly?" "I really like your ideas, I believe that way too. I
just need Taylor to keep up with his grade level...how would that work?") I
really have no interest in convincing her of anything, and I certainly have
no interest in "educating" her son.**

How about --"Unschooled kids learn math as they need it. They may not progress at the same rate as kids in school. If there is some math they never need, they may never learn it."

And -- "If you want to unschool, you have to let go of the idea of steady, linear progress at the same rate as in institutional school."

That's not a very positive spin on it, but it might break through her preconceptions.

Betsy

Eric Donato

Hi,

this reminds me of our first experience with homeschooling, 4 years
ago... we decided to not attend kindergarten but had no idea what else
we would "do", and met another mom who had lots of ideas, she *liked*
us a lot and proposed we could all meet for impromptu classes... she
planned all this stuff and wanted everyone to follow her lead, we
didn't want to follow her lead it was too complicated... so we went to
another group which catered to homeschoolers, it was pretty
unsatisfying, just a smaller less strict school... I called the "ideas
mom" into the class thinking she wanted this, but instead she
identified the things she wanted for the school and started to
introduce changes... then the group got agitated and split up a few
months later, the final straw...

we finally stopped attending any and all type of class, now we just
drop in occasionally on a free day... when other homeschoolers call us
to join their cub scouts, field trips or reading groups, we think about
the terrible year we spent with the "organized people" and decline...
it's so much easier on our own, and that's enough for me... my story
isn't too similar to yours but the thing that seems familiar is the
*other person* getting involved in your life, asking you to do things
for her... after going through my experience, I feel like keeping to
myself and answering questions about our interests, but not at all
excited about sharing our situation or extending an invitation to come
and join us...

Jules.
On Oct 1, 2004, at 9:27 AM, Gold Standard wrote:

> In a message dated 10/1/2004 1:37:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> jacki@... writes:
>
> >>If I  were to include these other boys in our unschool environment,
> I also
> >>wonder  whether I should do something to make sure there is no
> liability
> >>involved.  If this evolves into them being over here, do you
> recommend I
> put
> >>something  in writing for the parents to sign acknowledging that I
> take
> no
> >>responsibility for their sons' learning? Seems like  crazy/paranoid
> >>questions, but they seem pretty real right now. Has anyone  added
> their
> kids'
> >>friends from the p.s. system into their days as  unschoolers?<<<<
>
> >I wouldn't get all worked up about it. Chances are it won't happen.
>
> >Seriously----don't get worked up over it. It probably won't happen.
> They
> >don't really WANT it to happen. If they DO, they can do it
> themselves.
> Really.
>
> I appreciate your feedback...I'm not worked up about it. Just a
> serious
> question based on where I think this is going. I had another
> conversation
> with the same mom...she says she's really interested. I know that her
> driving force is her son feeling desperate in his school situation
> and just
> wanting out. She works. She wants help for her son. She's asking
> about him
> spending time here. My son wants to create with him. So for my son,
> it would
> be a good situation. The two of them are good friends.
>
> But because she works and isn't available to help her son the way
> that he's
> asking, I think she will settle for what she can get to ease him
> right now.
> Which I foresee puts him here, if we get this worked out. I want to be
> prepared. I don't want to be blamed for anything 5 months down the
> line when
> he's not up on his calculus. By agreeing to have him here, I want it
> to be
> real clear what that means. I will certainly continue to give her
> resources
> for reading about unschooling, but I can't make her read them.
>
> I think I'm coming to the conclusion that I'm not going to feel
> comfortable
> without a signed acknowledgement and permission form by the mom.
> Otherwise,
> I have no recourse if things get weird. I have been in a few
> unfortunate
> situations where head nods and "yeah's" did not end up meaning a
> person
> understood or agreed in the end.
>
> Sudbury Valley School has some documents parents have to sign saying
> things
> like "kids do what they want here" so that it's clear they are not
> taking
> responsibility for what kids choose to do each day. I think I'll look
> that
> up.
>
> Any similar situations out there?
>
> Thanks,
> Jacki
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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In a message dated 10/1/04 10:27:34 AM, jacki@... writes:

<< I appreciate your feedback...I'm not worked up about it. Just a serious
question based on where I think this is going. I had another conversation
with the same mom...she says she's really interested. I know that her
driving force is her son feeling desperate in his school situation and just
wanting out. She works. >>

It won't be homeschooling, and you could make that really clear--that he will
be learning ALL the time, in his life, but that if he's to be homeschooled,
the mom will still be responsible for that during the hours she's not at work.

There are a lot of hours in a week.

You'd be basically just doing daycare, not running a private school.

Sandra

Robyn Coburn

<<<<<I appreciate your feedback...I'm not worked up about it. Just a serious
question based on where I think this is going. I had another conversation
with the same mom...she says she's really interested. I know that her
driving force is her son feeling desperate in his school situation and just
wanting out. She works. She wants help for her son. She's asking about him
spending time here. My son wants to create with him. So for my son, it would
be a good situation. The two of them are good friends.>>>>>

Is she planning on paying you? There is a lot of difference between setting
yourself up as what might in legal terms be a tutor, and having your son's
buddy hanging out at your house and doing a bunch of interesting stuff.
Check the State Laws in your state ( www.nhen.org for info) and maybe laws
covering tutoring organizations (I'm thinking of those places that advertise
"up a full grade level in reading" as a guarantee). The liability laws you
may want to research probably have to do with day care providers more than
tutors. Also check your home owner's insurance.

If your friend is expecting you to ensure that her son keeps up with the
state standards in calculus or any subject, she clearly doesn't understand
unschooling. Maybe *she* should get clearer on that before you start
offering to keep her son busy in a full time manner.

Robyn L. Coburn

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