[AlwaysLearning] Genetics and Religion
Nanci Kuykendall
Hi all. I am new to this list, but some of you may
remember me from the Unschooling list, where I was
from it's inception. I have long ago put that list on
no mail for various reasons, and a friend recommended
I try Sandra's new list, so here I am.
I was intrigued by these questions of Nancy's,
although my intent was to read through all this
backlog of email that has built up from ISP problems
last month preventing my from accessng my email all
month. Ah well, I know better than to give myself
expectations (that dirty E word.)
Just remember that all these views are Mine, and so I
claim the right to be as Kooky as I wanna be. In
other words, don't confuse strong opinions with facts.
What may be facts for me are simply facts for me, not
necessarily anyone else's reality. Things are so
subjective in the spiritual aspects of our lives. How
wonderfully varied and rich a taperstry we weave.
Like Ken Wilber's Specturm of Consciousness
philosophy, where all concious and unconscious thought
and secular and spiritual beliefs are all part of the
same rich continuum, and all have merit and value
without conflicting because they address differing
layers and facets of the spectrum. Blue is no less
deep, satisfying and rich a color because Red is
vibrant and alive. They exist together yet apart,
important and vital for their own qualities.
mine and my husband's families. But that is not to
say that it is not possible. ANYTHING is possible, in
my opinion. My brother is athiest, my parents long
ago dissillusioned with churches and belongling to
none, but maintaining some vague, unspoken Lutheran
affiliation. My father's sisters are quite devout
Protestants.
My husband's family are all passionate about their
spiritual/religious path (men and women) but they have
wildly differing paths. We all respect each others
paths and share holidays with each other accordingly.
His parents are devout Protestant as is his elder
sister. His younger sister is staunchly Jehovah
Witness. My husband and I are passionately eclectic
Pagan. We all have strong values and beliefs and
strength and commitment in our faith.
Surely, as there is a brain structure which handles
ALL the varying parts of our complex selves. I do not
believe that this area of the brain "creates" our
Higher Power for us, but perhaps helps determine in
what ways we speak with and relate to that Higher
Power. How and where we find our faith is always very
individualized and personal, even between members of
strict sects. No one has the exact same relationship
with the spirit or with their Higher Power.
by >some function of the brain, which depression
personal experience that I have suffered from
depression in varying degrees all my life. My
depression was worst as a child, beginning in infancy
and continuing into adulthood. During my childhood,
in my questing, I was always a very spiritual person
and immersed myself in the faiths and beliefs around
me. Luckily I grew up in San Francisco and had many
to choose from. I eventually found my spiritual home
in the neo-Pagan movement when I was in my early teens
and have ever found my faith to be a support for me in
my times of stress and depression. I experienced deep
epiphanies of faith while in black suicidal
depressions. Connections with the weave of existance
and my Higher Power often kept me alive in my
childhood, coming seemingly miraculously when I was at
my most self hating and apathetic, like a sweeping
wave of passionate energy that swept me up and
sustained me. And no, they weren't drug induced. LOL
I have worshipped with many covens, groves, and
groups, but have never "belonged" to any church or
ideology. I do not believe in organized religion
because I believe that the journey of the spirit is
very intimate and personalized. I would no more
expect my children or my husband's journeys through
their lives to find spiritual fulfillment to echo my
own, than I would follow my parent's apathetic path.
God/Goddess/Higher Power is a Mirror,(as the saying
goes.) Although the mirror never changes, each person
who gazes into it sees a different face. Your Higher
Power speaks to your soul in the most appropriate way
for you at any given time in your lifetime, or
soultime. This may include times (or whole lifetimes
for those of us who believe in reincarnation) where
the soul is cut free from belief in Higher Power and
set adrift to quest and learn lessons necessary for
the soul at that time. All knowledge of the soul and
the spirit is good knowledge, regardless of
ideologies, dogmas and faith systems. Deep and
intimate knowledge of the self is good too, regardless
of where it is found.
That is not to say there is no enrichment or merit to
be found in group worship, so long as individuals are
resepected and allowed to guide their own personal
ideologies, simply that dogma is restrictive to the
growth of the soul.
Anything is possible. But then, you also have folks
marrying into the Amish culture in a small but
consistent number, who come from varying secular and
religious traditions. More telling I think, might be
a genetic predisposition for certain personality types
which find fullfillment in the Amish way of life. But
this may amount to the same thing, depending upon what
you devine to be the source of religious and spiritual
inspiration in the mind. The children of the Amish
are always free to leave to culture, but seldom do.
This could not be only attributed to the fact that it
is all they know, as human beings are endlessly
curious and flexible and constantly seeking newness.
More like this is what they want, knowing what options
they have. They are predisposed to the life by
genetics in personality. (Just an idea.)
on. This type of questing is most undoubtedly good
for the soul. Doubting your faith means that you are
alive and awake and vibrant, not that you are
unworthy. Questioning and being reaffirmed in your
path or in another path are all part of learning
knowledge of the self and the soul and the universe.
sin, nor do any pagans that I know of have any concept
of sin, retribution, punishment or reward in their
faith system. There is simply energy in the world
that can be directed towards good or ill intent.
These energies create their own backlash of like to
like. So ill actions get you ill returns and positive
forces have positive affects on the practitioner. So
this self regulates each practitioner to know
logically that if they crave good things for
themselves, they must do good things for others and be
of good heart, sending out these positive energies
into the world.
God/Goddess as personified for me as a
dual/multifaceted Higher Power is our Mother and our
Father, much as the Catholic trinity is a trifaceted
Higher Power. As Mother/Father, God/Goddess gives us
life and guides us through transitions before and
after life. God/Goddess creates all things and is all
things, the same way matter and energy are a part of
all things, for these are the embodiment of
God/Goddes. No matter the names, mythos, rituals or
traditions, for it is all speaking to the same Higher
Power, who loves us all. These things are tools for
our minds to understand concepts beyond them, as well
as they are true and real histories and happenings as
much as any knowledge of the spirit. We create
reality by our belief, and God/Goddess sees this and
is proud of our ability, like Him/Her, to create.
And many cultures believe that dreams and visions are
just as real and touchable as our physical reality,
and in some cases much more vital and important. Are
we so wise to say this is not so? I never comfort my
children after a nightmare by calling it "Only a
dream", for their dreams are real and important in
their own right and part of the real world of the
spirit. Rather I encourage them to talk about them,
think about them and be empowered to take control of
them for good. My elder son's chronic nightmares were
vaquished by a sword of light he learned to wield
against the monsters of his unconscious mind, and
embodied by a toy sword he took to bed with him
faithfully for several years.
Who am I to say that this was pure psychology? We all
know that the mind and the will can be greater than
the body, can will the body to live or to die beyond
our physical reason or reality should allow. We know
that other states of consciousness can so affect the
body as to allow endurance of pain, miraculous healing
and other affects. Who are we to say that even those
explained to the genetic and chemical level as
miracles of "science" are not still embodiments of the
soul/spirit and Higher Power at work? I do not claim
to be so wise as to say that anything is NOT Possible,
or that I know more than a tiny bit about anything.
Of course, I am still always learning. ;-)
Nanci K.
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remember me from the Unschooling list, where I was
from it's inception. I have long ago put that list on
no mail for various reasons, and a friend recommended
I try Sandra's new list, so here I am.
I was intrigued by these questions of Nancy's,
although my intent was to read through all this
backlog of email that has built up from ISP problems
last month preventing my from accessng my email all
month. Ah well, I know better than to give myself
expectations (that dirty E word.)
Just remember that all these views are Mine, and so I
claim the right to be as Kooky as I wanna be. In
other words, don't confuse strong opinions with facts.
What may be facts for me are simply facts for me, not
necessarily anyone else's reality. Things are so
subjective in the spiritual aspects of our lives. How
wonderfully varied and rich a taperstry we weave.
Like Ken Wilber's Specturm of Consciousness
philosophy, where all concious and unconscious thought
and secular and spiritual beliefs are all part of the
same rich continuum, and all have merit and value
without conflicting because they address differing
layers and facets of the spectrum. Blue is no less
deep, satisfying and rich a color because Red is
vibrant and alive. They exist together yet apart,
important and vital for their own qualities.
>I have a deep topic knocking at the inside of myI would hardly think that is true from the evidence of
>skull, trying to find its way out....
>- Does faith depend on heredity?
mine and my husband's families. But that is not to
say that it is not possible. ANYTHING is possible, in
my opinion. My brother is athiest, my parents long
ago dissillusioned with churches and belongling to
none, but maintaining some vague, unspoken Lutheran
affiliation. My father's sisters are quite devout
Protestants.
My husband's family are all passionate about their
spiritual/religious path (men and women) but they have
wildly differing paths. We all respect each others
paths and share holidays with each other accordingly.
His parents are devout Protestant as is his elder
sister. His younger sister is staunchly Jehovah
Witness. My husband and I are passionately eclectic
Pagan. We all have strong values and beliefs and
strength and commitment in our faith.
>Is there a brain structure or function which >governs"God"?
Surely, as there is a brain structure which handles
ALL the varying parts of our complex selves. I do not
believe that this area of the brain "creates" our
Higher Power for us, but perhaps helps determine in
what ways we speak with and relate to that Higher
Power. How and where we find our faith is always very
individualized and personal, even between members of
strict sects. No one has the exact same relationship
with the spirit or with their Higher Power.
>If a person who is religious can become an atheistthe >perception of God, or spirituality, is controlled
>because of depression, does it mean that faith, or
by >some function of the brain, which depression
>interrupts?I suppose that is possible. Although I can say from
personal experience that I have suffered from
depression in varying degrees all my life. My
depression was worst as a child, beginning in infancy
and continuing into adulthood. During my childhood,
in my questing, I was always a very spiritual person
and immersed myself in the faiths and beliefs around
me. Luckily I grew up in San Francisco and had many
to choose from. I eventually found my spiritual home
in the neo-Pagan movement when I was in my early teens
and have ever found my faith to be a support for me in
my times of stress and depression. I experienced deep
epiphanies of faith while in black suicidal
depressions. Connections with the weave of existance
and my Higher Power often kept me alive in my
childhood, coming seemingly miraculously when I was at
my most self hating and apathetic, like a sweeping
wave of passionate energy that swept me up and
sustained me. And no, they weren't drug induced. LOL
I have worshipped with many covens, groves, and
groups, but have never "belonged" to any church or
ideology. I do not believe in organized religion
because I believe that the journey of the spirit is
very intimate and personalized. I would no more
expect my children or my husband's journeys through
their lives to find spiritual fulfillment to echo my
own, than I would follow my parent's apathetic path.
God/Goddess/Higher Power is a Mirror,(as the saying
goes.) Although the mirror never changes, each person
who gazes into it sees a different face. Your Higher
Power speaks to your soul in the most appropriate way
for you at any given time in your lifetime, or
soultime. This may include times (or whole lifetimes
for those of us who believe in reincarnation) where
the soul is cut free from belief in Higher Power and
set adrift to quest and learn lessons necessary for
the soul at that time. All knowledge of the soul and
the spirit is good knowledge, regardless of
ideologies, dogmas and faith systems. Deep and
intimate knowledge of the self is good too, regardless
of where it is found.
That is not to say there is no enrichment or merit to
be found in group worship, so long as individuals are
resepected and allowed to guide their own personal
ideologies, simply that dogma is restrictive to the
growth of the soul.
>Do closed societies(the Amish, for instance) maintainOne of the joys of life is the endless possibilities.
>their religion because the propensity to it is
>inherited? Is there a "God gene"?
Anything is possible. But then, you also have folks
marrying into the Amish culture in a small but
consistent number, who come from varying secular and
religious traditions. More telling I think, might be
a genetic predisposition for certain personality types
which find fullfillment in the Amish way of life. But
this may amount to the same thing, depending upon what
you devine to be the source of religious and spiritual
inspiration in the mind. The children of the Amish
are always free to leave to culture, but seldom do.
This could not be only attributed to the fact that it
is all they know, as human beings are endlessly
curious and flexible and constantly seeking newness.
More like this is what they want, knowing what options
they have. They are predisposed to the life by
genetics in personality. (Just an idea.)
>If the answer to any of that is "yes," does it meanWhat a wonderful question to let your spirit ponder
>that God does not exist, that our perceptions are
>delusions which plague some but not others, or
>does it mean he/she/it *does* exist, and has created
>these structures or functions in order to have
>contact with us?
on. This type of questing is most undoubtedly good
for the soul. Doubting your faith means that you are
alive and awake and vibrant, not that you are
unworthy. Questioning and being reaffirmed in your
path or in another path are all part of learning
knowledge of the self and the soul and the universe.
>And does it mean that those without >the capacity toMine does not. That is to say. I do not believe in
>perceive him are damned? Or, if he >is just, that
>those without the gene are equally >saved without
>religion, since it would be unfair >otherwise? (I'm
>using saved and damned in a general >sense, as most
>religions promise some kind of reward for
>participation.)
sin, nor do any pagans that I know of have any concept
of sin, retribution, punishment or reward in their
faith system. There is simply energy in the world
that can be directed towards good or ill intent.
These energies create their own backlash of like to
like. So ill actions get you ill returns and positive
forces have positive affects on the practitioner. So
this self regulates each practitioner to know
logically that if they crave good things for
themselves, they must do good things for others and be
of good heart, sending out these positive energies
into the world.
God/Goddess as personified for me as a
dual/multifaceted Higher Power is our Mother and our
Father, much as the Catholic trinity is a trifaceted
Higher Power. As Mother/Father, God/Goddess gives us
life and guides us through transitions before and
after life. God/Goddess creates all things and is all
things, the same way matter and energy are a part of
all things, for these are the embodiment of
God/Goddes. No matter the names, mythos, rituals or
traditions, for it is all speaking to the same Higher
Power, who loves us all. These things are tools for
our minds to understand concepts beyond them, as well
as they are true and real histories and happenings as
much as any knowledge of the spirit. We create
reality by our belief, and God/Goddess sees this and
is proud of our ability, like Him/Her, to create.
>And what of religions that practice meditation, orNancy
>use drugs sacramentally? My religion's hagiography
>is replete with saints whose visions could be just as
>easily described as hallucinations; were they just
>nuts, or can severe fasting account for them?
And many cultures believe that dreams and visions are
just as real and touchable as our physical reality,
and in some cases much more vital and important. Are
we so wise to say this is not so? I never comfort my
children after a nightmare by calling it "Only a
dream", for their dreams are real and important in
their own right and part of the real world of the
spirit. Rather I encourage them to talk about them,
think about them and be empowered to take control of
them for good. My elder son's chronic nightmares were
vaquished by a sword of light he learned to wield
against the monsters of his unconscious mind, and
embodied by a toy sword he took to bed with him
faithfully for several years.
Who am I to say that this was pure psychology? We all
know that the mind and the will can be greater than
the body, can will the body to live or to die beyond
our physical reason or reality should allow. We know
that other states of consciousness can so affect the
body as to allow endurance of pain, miraculous healing
and other affects. Who are we to say that even those
explained to the genetic and chemical level as
miracles of "science" are not still embodiments of the
soul/spirit and Higher Power at work? I do not claim
to be so wise as to say that anything is NOT Possible,
or that I know more than a tiny bit about anything.
Of course, I am still always learning. ;-)
Nanci K.
__________________________________________________
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Nancy Wooton
on 1/3/02 4:44 PM, Nanci Kuykendall at aisliin@... wrote:
Likewise always learning,
Nancy
--
The more we live by our intellect, the less we understand the meaning of
life.
-Leo Tolstoy, author (1828-1910)
> I do not claimThank you so much for your post!
> to be so wise as to say that anything is NOT Possible,
> or that I know more than a tiny bit about anything.
> Of course, I am still always learning. ;-)
Likewise always learning,
Nancy
--
The more we live by our intellect, the less we understand the meaning of
life.
-Leo Tolstoy, author (1828-1910)
meghan anderson
<<<<From: Nanci Kuykendall <aisliin@...>
Subject: Genetics and Religion
Hi all. I am new to this list>>>>
Hiya Nanci! Nice to 'see' you here. Loved your post!
Meghan :-)
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Subject: Genetics and Religion
Hi all. I am new to this list>>>>
Hiya Nanci! Nice to 'see' you here. Loved your post!
Meghan :-)
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
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