badolbilz

I'm responding to the post this morning about the woman in the store
with 4 children who refused to let the oldest get a drink of water.
From reading the story, the mother sounded impatient, pushy, and
completely ignoring her child's needs. But I doubt that is an accurate
description of this woman. I think it is really wrong to take one
little snippet from someone's day and judge them on it. I have four
children under the age of 8 and can honestly say that some shopping
trips leave me impatient, etc.

I tried to imagine me in this woman's shoes and it played out like this:
On the way to Wal-Mart, I develop a severe stomach cramping. I tell
the girls that as soon as we get in, I need to use the bathroom and
could they help me hurry because my stomach hurts really bad. My oldest
says she's thirsty and I ask her if she could wait until we're out of
the bathroom, because if she stops to get a drink, all the others will
need to as well and then I won't get into the bathroom as quickly as
I'll need to. (I would never leave my children unattended in a shopping
center. I feel it shouldn't be the older ones responsibility for the
younger ones in such a busy place.) As soon as we get into the store,
my oldest sees the water fountain and again wants a drink. At this
point, yes, I would be frustrated and snippy. I wouldn't be glad to be
mean or impatient, but I expect I would be. I would apologize afterward
for my inconveniencing her and making her wait and I would again explain
why I was in a hurry. But for that moment, as we were rushing to the
bathroom, anyone overhearing me might think I was a terrible, cruel
mother for ignoring my daughter's need to drink. I wouldn't try to
spank her, though.

Anyway, I think it's important to remember that there are reasons for
behaviors and that the reasons are sometimes reasonable or at least not
evil. Sometimes, someone's just having a bad day. And sometime's other
people are just all out wrong...but then that's just my opinion of them,
isn't it.

Heidi

Robyn Coburn

<<<<I'm responding to the post this morning about the woman in the store
with 4 children who refused to let the oldest get a drink of water.
From reading the story, the mother sounded impatient, pushy, and
completely ignoring her child's needs. But I doubt that is an accurate
description of this woman. I think it is really wrong to take one
little snippet from someone's day and judge them on it. I have four
children under the age of 8 and can honestly say that some shopping
trips leave me impatient, etc. >>>>

Shopping with one kid can leave us impatient but that is not the issue. The
issue is how should an Unschooler deal with impatient feelings, and what
might the original poster have said or done to help the child, if anything.

This is a Radical Unschooling list - a place to vigorously discuss ways to
bring whole life Unschooling and respectful parenting into the forefront of
our lives - not a place to try and apologize for or understand someone (who
was evidently not an unschooler) behaving very badly.

It *is* an accurate description of that woman's actions. It is not adding
the fantasy of a stomach cramp. It is not suggesting that the inconvenience
of having many children with you should be an excuse to ignore their needs.

<<I would never leave my children unattended in a shopping
center. I feel it shouldn't be the older ones responsibility for the
younger ones in such a busy place.>>>

I agree totally. That woman didn't.

<<< As soon as we get into the store,
my oldest sees the water fountain and again wants a drink. >>>

We have no idea how long that family had been shopping, or whether they had
just arrived. We have no idea that one child drinking would have made the
others want one or not. It's just muddying the actual event by adding this
made up backstory.

<<<<At this
point, yes, I would be frustrated and snippy. I wouldn't be glad to be
mean or impatient, but I expect I would be. >>>>

Do you? Is this a real situation for you, or still a hypothetical reading of
that other woman? How does having an expectation of being mean, impatient or
snippy help anyone come to unschooling?

I know one thing that Sandra would suggest if she were here and you shared
that these feelings came upon you. "Breathe - slow deep calming breaths".

Our focus is on helping people *not* act out on these feelings in this type
of difficult situation.

<<<<<Anyway, I think it's important to remember that there are reasons for
behaviors and that the reasons are sometimes reasonable or at least not
evil. Sometimes, someone's just having a bad day. >>>>

That shouldn't be promoted as an excuse to spank, embarrass and deny your
children water.

The only positive suggestion I have might be to jump in and say to the other
mother, especially if you had your child with you so you didn't look like a
pedophile, "Can I help watch your baby while you use the bathroom? It sure
is hot/busy/tiring here today isn't it?" Then the girl could have gotten a
drink while you watched the buggy. Or if there were paper cups at the
fountain, as there sometimes are, you could have brought the girl a drink,
and said something kind about how grown up she was to be so responsible with
her siblings, or some other thing uplifiting that doesn't sound so lame.
Hindsight is so 20/20.

Robyn L. Coburn



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k johnson

I thought about the stress factor of the mother too. I have 3 kids, and your picture of the mom who HAS to use the bathroom, with no room for delay, is completely understood! My thoughts were the hitting...wondering what this woman does at home to her kids???, if in public, she hits like this?
Katy



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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 11:48:16 -0400
From: badolbilz
Subject: Re: the whole picture

I'm responding to the post this morning about the woman in the store
with 4 children who refused to let the oldest get a drink of water.
From reading the story, the mother sounded impatient, pushy, and
completely ignoring her child's needs. But I doubt that is an accurate
description of this woman. I think it is really wrong to take one
little snippet from someone's day and judge them on it. I have four
children under the age of 8 and can honestly say that some shopping
trips leave me impatient, etc.

I tried to imagine me in this woman's shoes and it played out like this:
On the way to Wal-Mart, I develop a severe stomach cramping. I tell
the girls that as soon as we get in, I need to use the bathroom and
could they help me hurry because my stomach hurts really bad. My oldest
says she's thirsty and I ask her if she could wait until we're out of
the bathroom, because if she stops to get a drink, all the others will
need to as well and then I won't get into the bathroom as quickly as
I'll need to. (I would never leave my children unattended in a shopping
center. I feel it shouldn't be the older ones responsibility for the
younger ones in such a busy place.) As soon as we get into the store,
my oldest sees the water fountain and again wants a drink. At this
point, yes, I would be frustrated and snippy. I wouldn't be glad to be
mean or impatient, but I expect I would be. I would apologize afterward
for my inconveniencing her and making her wait and I would again explain
why I was in a hurry. But for that moment, as we were rushing to the
bathroom, anyone overhearing me might think I was a terrible, cruel
mother for ignoring my daughter's need to drink. I wouldn't try to
spank her, though.

Anyway, I think it's important to remember that there are reasons for
behaviors and that the reasons are sometimes reasonable or at least not
evil. Sometimes, someone's just having a bad day. And sometime's other
people are just all out wrong...but then that's just my opinion of them,
isn't it.

Heidi





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fetteroll

on 9/10/04 11:48 AM, badolbilz at ynxn96@... wrote:

> I think it is really wrong to take one
> little snippet from someone's day and judge them on it.

It wasn't a discussion of the woman. It wasn't a criticism of the woman. It
was a discussion of the idea of how to handle stress and shopping and lots
of kids.

Perhaps that woman is a model mom and that was the only bad moment she had
in her life. But *she* isn't the issue. Her *example* was the fodder for
discussion of how to and now not to handle such situations.

The point isn't to be a perfect mom who never makes a mistake, but to
discuss better ways to handle the stress of having kids.

Presumably she was doing the best she could at the time. *If* that was the
best she could do, it's probably because she doesn't have better tools. So,
lucky for us -- and even luckier for our kids! -- we have a place where we
can discuss better tools so people won't be stuck in a situation where
crushing kids spirits is the only idea they have on how to handle having to
go to the bathroom in a store with too many kids.

It takes practice to not reach for the familiar tools given to us by our
mothers or conventional parenting. And we're all going to fail as we try to
put better tools into practice. But the forum is for discussing new and
better tools not for discussing how to be super mom who never makes
mistakes.

Joyce