[email protected]

In a message dated 9/5/2004 2:22:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
Maybe the bible is directing us to
spare our rods so that we can spoil the child, in a positive way
You know, this is how I've always read it. Spare the rod, AND spoil the child
rather than Spare the rod OR spoil the child.
Not that children spoil at all. (Well sometimes I wonder about the smelly
teen years.)

Elissa Jill

Life's challenges are not supposed to paralyze you;
They're supposed to help you discover who you are.
~Bernice Johnson Reagon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nancy Wooton

on 9/6/04 6:21 AM, Earthmomma67@... at Earthmomma67@... wrote:

> In a message dated 9/5/2004 2:22:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [email protected] writes:
> Maybe the bible is directing us to
> spare our rods so that we can spoil the child, in a positive way
> You know, this is how I've always read it. Spare the rod, AND spoil the child
> rather than Spare the rod OR spoil the child.
> Not that children spoil at all. (Well sometimes I wonder about the smelly
> teen years.)
>
> Elissa Jill
>

I told myself I wasn't going to get into this, but... <g>

There is no verse in the bible which reads "Spare the rod, spoil the child."
This is as close as you get:

Proverbs 13:24
He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth
him betimes.
(Whole Chapter: Proverbs 13 In context: Proverbs 13:23-25 KJV)


Beats me where the other saying comes from ;-)))
Nancy

--
Rewards and punishments are the lowest form of education.
-Chuang-Tzu, philosopher (4th c. BCE)

jimpetersonl

> There is no verse in the bible which reads "Spare the rod, spoil the
child."
> This is as close as you get:
> > Proverbs 13:24> He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he
that loveth him chasteneth> him betimes.
> Beats me where the other saying comes from ;-)))
> Nancy


I think it comes from the same people who eisogetical reading of that
verse lead them to believe shepherds *beat* their sheep with their rods.

~Sue (the exegetical reading is "guidance" not "beating")

Fetteroll

on 9/6/04 9:21 AM, Earthmomma67@... at Earthmomma67@... wrote:

> Maybe the bible is directing us to
> spare our rods so that we can spoil the child, in a positive way
> You know, this is how I've always read it. Spare the rod, AND spoil the child
> rather than Spare the rod OR spoil the child.

As Nancy said, the line isn't in the Bible. Here's some that are close
(though no prettier). (Sandra preserved this at http://sandradodd.com/s/rod
in case anyone wants to trot it out when the subject of this line and the
Bible comes up.)

> PROVERBS
>
> 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him
> chasteneth him betimes.
>
> 19:18 Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his
> crying.
>
> 22:15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction
> shall drive it far from him.
>
> 23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the
> rod, he shall not die.
> 23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
>
> 29:15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth
> his mother to shame.

Bartlett's says spare the rod is from a Samuel Butler poem, Hudibras:

> Love is a boy by poets styl'd;
> Then spare the rod, and spoil the child.

I don't know what the context of the quote is but the ironic thing is that
his poem is, one webpage said, "a burlesque satire on Puritanism". Wikipedia
says "The closest analogy in the present day to the meaning of "Puritan" in
the 17th century would be 'fundamentalist'"

Joyce

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/7/04 4:52:24 AM, fetteroll@... writes:

<<
I don't know what the context of the quote is but the ironic thing is that
his poem is, one webpage said, "a burlesque satire on Puritanism". Wikipedia
says "The closest analogy in the present day to the meaning of "Puritan" in
the 17th century would be 'fundamentalist'" >>

Thanks.

I added that to the page.

I like those pages, even the kind of boring ones. Some (like
sandradodd.com/food) are big inspiring feasts, and some (like sandradodd.com/s/rod) are like
technical footnotes.

It's a wonderful tool, the internet. I'm glad I lived to see it and even
get in there and add to it some.

Sandra