Unschooling Thought
jimpetersonl
Do children have to be "school aged" to unschool?
~Sue
S2256
~Sue
S2256
Pam Hartley
> Do children have to be "school aged" to unschool?Nobody knows for sure. <g>
> ~Sue
Some of us will claim to have unschooled our children from birth. Some only
from 5 or 6 years old.
Pam "if a tree falls in the forest" Hartley
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/23/04 8:11:03 AM, pamhartley@... writes:
<< Nobody knows for sure. <g> >>
I know what I think, but it doesn't match everyone else's thoughts. <g>
<<Some of us will claim to have unschooled our children from birth. Some only
from 5 or 6 years old. >>
Some will claim to have unschooled from birth and then put their kids in
school when they're five, and so in such cases I think they just had kids and sent
them to school on schedule.
The exception and dissent seems mostly to be from Delaware, which is weird.
There are places in that part of the world where kids get on waiting lists
for preschools before they're even born, and to be cool among moms, your two
year old needs to be in a prep school. They assure me this is seriously true.
In such cases, some families have to fight the relatives and say "we're
homeschooling" when their kid can't even pull up his own pants.
My own opinion is that kids are home with their parents no matter whether
they will later go to school or not. Whether the time they don't go to school
is three, four, five or six years old, until that day they don't go to school,
why would they be "homeschooled"?
There wasn't any schooling option/avoidance/rejection.
If the state says a child has to be enrolled in school by the start-of-school
nearest or after his fifth birthday or whatever/however each state words it,
THEN the moment that child doesn't get on the bus, THEN the parents have made
the plunge. He is not in school, they are responsible, and they have become
homeschoolers.
Before that they might've been thinking about it, planning it, living for it,
but they didn't do it.
That is my opinion.
If they were living those first five yto bathroom, waiting until 11:45 to eat
lunch and only allowing 20 minutes in silence (or whatever), were those kids
in school? No, not until they got to school.
Sandra
<< Nobody knows for sure. <g> >>
I know what I think, but it doesn't match everyone else's thoughts. <g>
<<Some of us will claim to have unschooled our children from birth. Some only
from 5 or 6 years old. >>
Some will claim to have unschooled from birth and then put their kids in
school when they're five, and so in such cases I think they just had kids and sent
them to school on schedule.
The exception and dissent seems mostly to be from Delaware, which is weird.
There are places in that part of the world where kids get on waiting lists
for preschools before they're even born, and to be cool among moms, your two
year old needs to be in a prep school. They assure me this is seriously true.
In such cases, some families have to fight the relatives and say "we're
homeschooling" when their kid can't even pull up his own pants.
My own opinion is that kids are home with their parents no matter whether
they will later go to school or not. Whether the time they don't go to school
is three, four, five or six years old, until that day they don't go to school,
why would they be "homeschooled"?
There wasn't any schooling option/avoidance/rejection.
If the state says a child has to be enrolled in school by the start-of-school
nearest or after his fifth birthday or whatever/however each state words it,
THEN the moment that child doesn't get on the bus, THEN the parents have made
the plunge. He is not in school, they are responsible, and they have become
homeschoolers.
Before that they might've been thinking about it, planning it, living for it,
but they didn't do it.
That is my opinion.
If they were living those first five yto bathroom, waiting until 11:45 to eat
lunch and only allowing 20 minutes in silence (or whatever), were those kids
in school? No, not until they got to school.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/23/2004 11:17:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
My own opinion is that kids are home with their parents no matter whether
they will later go to school or not. Whether the time they don't go to
school
is three, four, five or six years old, until that day they don't go to
school,
why would they be "homeschooled"?
There wasn't any schooling option/avoidance/rejection<<<
I have been discussing this with a few friends of mine. There is a Mom with
a 3 YO son. He goes to a Montessori preschool three times a week and she
calls herself an unschooler. She has said that she believes this is an
enriching environment where he can learn and get some social interaction.
My thinking was that he is not even old enough in NC to be homeschooled so
how can she begin to say he is unschooled.
Second: He is in SCHOOL!!!! The other moms said "well she needed a break
from him so to her it is like a baby-sitter or Mom's Morning Out.
Third: Her thought process is still that of "this place is the place he will
learn." Not that "leaning happens everywhere."
I do believe that he will just continue on in the Montessori program. I
have been thinking about this a lot the past few days. And I can't wrap my
brain around it. I can't understand how these other mom's can see that if he is
3 and in school he is not homeschooling and certainly not unschooling.
Just a couple of my thoughts,
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
My own opinion is that kids are home with their parents no matter whether
they will later go to school or not. Whether the time they don't go to
school
is three, four, five or six years old, until that day they don't go to
school,
why would they be "homeschooled"?
There wasn't any schooling option/avoidance/rejection<<<
I have been discussing this with a few friends of mine. There is a Mom with
a 3 YO son. He goes to a Montessori preschool three times a week and she
calls herself an unschooler. She has said that she believes this is an
enriching environment where he can learn and get some social interaction.
My thinking was that he is not even old enough in NC to be homeschooled so
how can she begin to say he is unschooled.
Second: He is in SCHOOL!!!! The other moms said "well she needed a break
from him so to her it is like a baby-sitter or Mom's Morning Out.
Third: Her thought process is still that of "this place is the place he will
learn." Not that "leaning happens everywhere."
I do believe that he will just continue on in the Montessori program. I
have been thinking about this a lot the past few days. And I can't wrap my
brain around it. I can't understand how these other mom's can see that if he is
3 and in school he is not homeschooling and certainly not unschooling.
Just a couple of my thoughts,
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Wooton
on 8/23/04 7:05 AM, Pam Hartley at pamhartley@... wrote:
a distinction between youngsters and "school aged." In California,
kindergarten is (for now) not mandatory, so school aged means 6 and first
grade. Unschooling starts at birth, IMO, but homeschooling starts when you
don't institutionalize your kid in mandatory school <g>
Nancy
--
The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what
they become by it.
- John Ruskin
>> Do children have to be "school aged" to unschool?When parents of preschoolers call or write to me about homeschooling, I make
>> ~Sue
>
> Nobody knows for sure. <g>
>
> Some of us will claim to have unschooled our children from birth. Some only
> from 5 or 6 years old.
>
> Pam "if a tree falls in the forest" Hartley
>
a distinction between youngsters and "school aged." In California,
kindergarten is (for now) not mandatory, so school aged means 6 and first
grade. Unschooling starts at birth, IMO, but homeschooling starts when you
don't institutionalize your kid in mandatory school <g>
Nancy
--
The highest reward for a person's toil is not what they get for it, but what
they become by it.
- John Ruskin
jimpetersonl
> If the state says a child has to be enrolled in school by thestart-of-school > nearest or after his fifth birthday or
whatever/however each state words it, > THEN the moment that child
doesn't get on the bus, THEN the parents have made > the plunge. He
is not in school, they are responsible, and they have become >
homeschoolers.
>living for it, > but they didn't do it.
> Before that they might've been thinking about it, planning it,
> SandraIf I understand you correctly, unschoolers in, for example, Washington
only unschool between 8 and 18, in Idaho between 7 and 16, in NY and
GA between 6 and 16, because of the compulsory attendance laws?
~Sue
M101904
Robyn Coburn
<<< Do children have to be "school aged" to unschool?>>>>
<<<When parents of preschoolers call or write to me about homeschooling, I
make a distinction between youngsters and "school aged." In California,
kindergarten is (for now) not mandatory, so school aged means 6 and first
grade. Unschooling starts at birth, IMO, but homeschooling starts when you
don't institutionalize your kid in mandatory school <g>>>>>
I wrote the following when this same issue came up on U/D a little while
ago.
My decision is to call us Unschoolers even though Jayn is still below the
legal age.
We had decided to homeschool before Jayn was born. We joined a newly formed
local support group when Jayn was 18 months old, three years ago, and I had
already been on the HSC list. I was reading John Holt, but had not really
had the courage or understanding to commit to unschooling until Pam
Sorooshian let me know about this list [UnschoolingDiscussion] - but I don't
remember exactly when that was.
I have to call myself an Unschooler, and have done for a while, as I am
surrounded by people who are most emphatically not unschoolers in my hs
group. I finally had to "come out" at my group although I knew a long time
before doing so. Most of them are relaxed/eclectic, but still use curriculum
materials, some are charter, and most have "educational goals" for their
children.
There is definitely an aura that they feel slightly superior and view my
unschooling being not so much dangerous neglect, but a crackpot experiment
that will undoubtedly fade away once Jayn gets older and starts to need more
teaching. I have no fear of this occurring myself!
Most are rigidly controlling of food, tv, computers and how their time is to
be spent. They are also wonderfully gentle, non-spanking parents who allow
their children the opportunity to develop their own games and relationships
at the park without the constant mediation and bossiness that characterizes
the "ordinary" parents we see at parks.
So many of these hs'ers I know are "following a program" even for their
little children, recommending the "early reading" and "reading readiness"
materials. They look for resources for "early immersion Spanish" or take
classes, seek out teachable moments, or insist that their children must do a
certain amount of various subjects before playing. I hear the conversations
although I don't usually participate in them. The parents strive to make it
"more interesting" and sometimes even use (gasp!) videos as part of some
unit studies. These are 3 and 4 and 5 year olds.
They talk about how they did "The Food Pyramid" (as if there were only one)
so that they could explain why their parental food controls were right. They
genuinely delight in how much fun the kids had cutting out little pictures
of fruit etc and sticking them on some chart they downloaded. (Jayn has not
shown the slightest interest in this type of activity so far - she likes to
cut out paper dolls, snowflakes or geometric shapes for use in collages.)
There is plenty of talk about how much enjoyment their child gets from the
whatever Unit they are doing, and how "We have to stop or she'd want to
learn ALL the State capitols in ONE DAY!" I always say, "So, why stop?" The
answers are always either along the lines of some other commitment coming up
in the next half hour, or parental exhaustion. There is always a sense of
envy (not from me!) for those parents whose children love to do workbooks
from the "unlucky" ones whose children resist the things.
As far as the children go, when the homeschoolers are all playing together
at the park, it is impossible to tell which ones use Abeka or Sonlight or
whatever (names I have heard but know nothing about) from the Unit studiers
or Jayn. It is only when they start to interact with their own parents that
differences in parenting become discernible. There are quite a few parents
who are ready to jump in with "Did you say Thank you for that cracker?".
There are sometimes: "Can we go to Sophia's tomorrow?" "We have to finish
our school work first"; and the occasional inexplicable "May I take off my
sweater?" "No".
It is those moments that remind me with a jolt that I am an Unschooler with
a whole different mind set. Thank goodness!
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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<<<When parents of preschoolers call or write to me about homeschooling, I
make a distinction between youngsters and "school aged." In California,
kindergarten is (for now) not mandatory, so school aged means 6 and first
grade. Unschooling starts at birth, IMO, but homeschooling starts when you
don't institutionalize your kid in mandatory school <g>>>>>
I wrote the following when this same issue came up on U/D a little while
ago.
My decision is to call us Unschoolers even though Jayn is still below the
legal age.
We had decided to homeschool before Jayn was born. We joined a newly formed
local support group when Jayn was 18 months old, three years ago, and I had
already been on the HSC list. I was reading John Holt, but had not really
had the courage or understanding to commit to unschooling until Pam
Sorooshian let me know about this list [UnschoolingDiscussion] - but I don't
remember exactly when that was.
I have to call myself an Unschooler, and have done for a while, as I am
surrounded by people who are most emphatically not unschoolers in my hs
group. I finally had to "come out" at my group although I knew a long time
before doing so. Most of them are relaxed/eclectic, but still use curriculum
materials, some are charter, and most have "educational goals" for their
children.
There is definitely an aura that they feel slightly superior and view my
unschooling being not so much dangerous neglect, but a crackpot experiment
that will undoubtedly fade away once Jayn gets older and starts to need more
teaching. I have no fear of this occurring myself!
Most are rigidly controlling of food, tv, computers and how their time is to
be spent. They are also wonderfully gentle, non-spanking parents who allow
their children the opportunity to develop their own games and relationships
at the park without the constant mediation and bossiness that characterizes
the "ordinary" parents we see at parks.
So many of these hs'ers I know are "following a program" even for their
little children, recommending the "early reading" and "reading readiness"
materials. They look for resources for "early immersion Spanish" or take
classes, seek out teachable moments, or insist that their children must do a
certain amount of various subjects before playing. I hear the conversations
although I don't usually participate in them. The parents strive to make it
"more interesting" and sometimes even use (gasp!) videos as part of some
unit studies. These are 3 and 4 and 5 year olds.
They talk about how they did "The Food Pyramid" (as if there were only one)
so that they could explain why their parental food controls were right. They
genuinely delight in how much fun the kids had cutting out little pictures
of fruit etc and sticking them on some chart they downloaded. (Jayn has not
shown the slightest interest in this type of activity so far - she likes to
cut out paper dolls, snowflakes or geometric shapes for use in collages.)
There is plenty of talk about how much enjoyment their child gets from the
whatever Unit they are doing, and how "We have to stop or she'd want to
learn ALL the State capitols in ONE DAY!" I always say, "So, why stop?" The
answers are always either along the lines of some other commitment coming up
in the next half hour, or parental exhaustion. There is always a sense of
envy (not from me!) for those parents whose children love to do workbooks
from the "unlucky" ones whose children resist the things.
As far as the children go, when the homeschoolers are all playing together
at the park, it is impossible to tell which ones use Abeka or Sonlight or
whatever (names I have heard but know nothing about) from the Unit studiers
or Jayn. It is only when they start to interact with their own parents that
differences in parenting become discernible. There are quite a few parents
who are ready to jump in with "Did you say Thank you for that cracker?".
There are sometimes: "Can we go to Sophia's tomorrow?" "We have to finish
our school work first"; and the occasional inexplicable "May I take off my
sweater?" "No".
It is those moments that remind me with a jolt that I am an Unschooler with
a whole different mind set. Thank goodness!
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 8/16/2004
Pam Hartley
> It is those moments that remind me with a jolt that I am an Unschooler withRobyn summed up nicely why I think unschooling is something that can be
> a whole different mind set. Thank goodness!
claimed from birth.
The whole mindset of a parent of a two year old who will be going to
preschool next year or is in a homeschooling family and has his future
learning mapped out for him is different from the mindset of a parent of a
two year old who they know will be unschooled. The life of the child is
different, too, unless the parents are "progressive" and "let them play"
until they're five.
So maybe we should call it pre-unschooling. <g>
Pam
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/23/04 3:05:25 PM, jimpetersonl@... writes:
<< If I understand you correctly, unschoolers in, for example, Washington
only unschool between 8 and 18, in Idaho between 7 and 16, in NY and
GA between 6 and 16, because of the compulsory attendance laws?
personal opinion.
Are you suggesting in any way that compulsory attendance and school are
separate?
Are you fishing for someone to say that unschooling isn't homeschooling, or
that homeschooling has nothing to do with school?
The answer to just about every question starts with "It depends."
It depends what you're really asking and why you want to know.
Sandra
<< If I understand you correctly, unschoolers in, for example, Washington
only unschool between 8 and 18, in Idaho between 7 and 16, in NY and
GA between 6 and 16, because of the compulsory attendance laws?
>>That sounds more like a legal question or a trap than an inquiry about my
personal opinion.
Are you suggesting in any way that compulsory attendance and school are
separate?
Are you fishing for someone to say that unschooling isn't homeschooling, or
that homeschooling has nothing to do with school?
The answer to just about every question starts with "It depends."
It depends what you're really asking and why you want to know.
Sandra
jimpetersonl
Sandra wrote:
If the state says a child has to be enrolled in school by the
start-of-school nearest or after his fifth birthday or
whatever/however each state words it, THEN the moment that child
doesn't get on the bus, THEN the parents have made the plung
homeschoolers.
Before that they might've been thinking about it, planning it, living
for it, but they didn't do it.
Sue asked:
16, in NY and> GA between 6 and 16, because of the compulsory
attendance laws?
unschooling or not hinged on the state's minimum compulsory attendance
laws. I was asking, with examples of state laws, if I understood you
correctly or not.
In answer to your other questions:
No, I'm suggesting that unschooling (and homeschooling, for that
matter), are separate from school, and that both (assuming parents
don't send their children to school in the interim) might start quite
in advance of a state's minimum compulsory attendance age.
No. I was trying to understand what you said.
What I was really asking was if I understood you or not.
I wanted to know what you meant and if I understood it for my own
edification.
~Sue
M163604
If the state says a child has to be enrolled in school by the
start-of-school nearest or after his fifth birthday or
whatever/however each state words it, THEN the moment that child
doesn't get on the bus, THEN the parents have made the plung
homeschoolers.
Before that they might've been thinking about it, planning it, living
for it, but they didn't do it.
Sue asked:
> << If I understand you correctly, unschoolers in, for example,Washington>> only unschool between 8 and 18, in Idaho between 7 and
16, in NY and> GA between 6 and 16, because of the compulsory
attendance laws?
>about my > personal opinion.
> That sounds more like a legal question or a trap than an inquiry
> Are you suggesting in any way that compulsory attendance and schoolare > separate?
> Are you fishing for someone to say that unschooling isn'thomeschooling, or > that homeschooling has nothing to do with school?
> The answer to just about every question starts with "It depends."My understanding of what you wrote was that whether a family was
> It depends what you're really asking and why you want to know.
>
> Sandra
unschooling or not hinged on the state's minimum compulsory attendance
laws. I was asking, with examples of state laws, if I understood you
correctly or not.
In answer to your other questions:
No, I'm suggesting that unschooling (and homeschooling, for that
matter), are separate from school, and that both (assuming parents
don't send their children to school in the interim) might start quite
in advance of a state's minimum compulsory attendance age.
No. I was trying to understand what you said.
What I was really asking was if I understood you or not.
I wanted to know what you meant and if I understood it for my own
edification.
~Sue
M163604
Vijay Berry Owens
I am having trouble grasping this concept (see quotation below please)
maybe someone can help me.
Is the family who decided to unschool from birth suddenly transformed by
the click of the clock over to midnight on the first day of school? Are
they suddenly in possession of a whole new set of ideals and credos
because their child went from being pre-school age to being school aged?
Isn't the family who decided to unschool from birth "living and
learning" from real life just as the parents of older children are vs.
employing hothousing practices such as flash cards to cause pre-school
learning to happen artificially?
I am a SAHM and have many other responsibilities besides taking care of
my child (shopping, cooking, cleaning, gardening, starting a nonprofit,
taking care of pets, etc.) responsibilities that would be much easier to
handle if I put my child in daycare. But I have the same problems with
daycare that I have with school: not enough one on one interaction, too
much emphasis on "schoolish" activities, too much emphasis on gender
specific toys, discipline that is too punitive, artificial division of
the day into different activities based on a pre-formed schedule, etc. I
could go on all day.
So because I believe so wholeheartedly in the unschooling philosophy, I
choose to "unschool" starting now, rather than to put my child in the
hands of someone who would make her eat "balanced meals," or tell her
that she can't use finger paints because it's time to be read to, or
whatever.
It goes beyond the choice to send my child to daycare or not though. It
encompasses my decisions to let her eat what she wants, play with
whatever toy she wants, go outside when she wants, brush her own teeth,
etc. rather than imposing arbitrary limits. Limits that are the norm in
most families.
I feel like I am already doing it (unschooling) at least to the maximum
extent that I can for a 15 month old. There are some decisions that I
feel must still be made for her but in the not too distant future I
think she will be able to make them herself too.
So I guess what I am trying to ask is I feel like we are unschoolers
already. Is that truly not possible?
Thanks,
-Vijay
maybe someone can help me.
Is the family who decided to unschool from birth suddenly transformed by
the click of the clock over to midnight on the first day of school? Are
they suddenly in possession of a whole new set of ideals and credos
because their child went from being pre-school age to being school aged?
Isn't the family who decided to unschool from birth "living and
learning" from real life just as the parents of older children are vs.
employing hothousing practices such as flash cards to cause pre-school
learning to happen artificially?
I am a SAHM and have many other responsibilities besides taking care of
my child (shopping, cooking, cleaning, gardening, starting a nonprofit,
taking care of pets, etc.) responsibilities that would be much easier to
handle if I put my child in daycare. But I have the same problems with
daycare that I have with school: not enough one on one interaction, too
much emphasis on "schoolish" activities, too much emphasis on gender
specific toys, discipline that is too punitive, artificial division of
the day into different activities based on a pre-formed schedule, etc. I
could go on all day.
So because I believe so wholeheartedly in the unschooling philosophy, I
choose to "unschool" starting now, rather than to put my child in the
hands of someone who would make her eat "balanced meals," or tell her
that she can't use finger paints because it's time to be read to, or
whatever.
It goes beyond the choice to send my child to daycare or not though. It
encompasses my decisions to let her eat what she wants, play with
whatever toy she wants, go outside when she wants, brush her own teeth,
etc. rather than imposing arbitrary limits. Limits that are the norm in
most families.
I feel like I am already doing it (unschooling) at least to the maximum
extent that I can for a 15 month old. There are some decisions that I
feel must still be made for her but in the not too distant future I
think she will be able to make them herself too.
So I guess what I am trying to ask is I feel like we are unschoolers
already. Is that truly not possible?
Thanks,
-Vijay
On Monday, August 23, 2004, at 11:15 AM, someone wrote:
> Some will claim to have unschooled from birth and then put their kids in
> school when they're five, and so in such cases I think they just had
> kids and sent
> them to school on schedule.
>
> My own opinion is that kids are home with their parents no matter
> whether
> they will later go to school or not. Whether the time they don't go
> to school
> is three, four, five or six years old, until that day they don't go to
> school,
> why would they be "homeschooled"?
> There wasn't any schooling option/avoidance/rejection.
>
> If the state says a child has to be enrolled in school by the
> start-of-school
> nearest or after his fifth birthday or whatever/however each state
> words it,
> THEN the moment that child doesn't get on the bus, THEN the parents
> have made
> the plunge. He is not in school, they are responsible, and they have
> become
> homeschoolers.
>
> Before that they might've been thinking about it, planning it, living
> for it,
> but they didn't do it.
>
> That is my opinion.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Hill
**
Most of them are relaxed/eclectic, but still use curriculum
materials, some are charter, and most have "educational goals" for their
children. **
How many points do you suppose they get if they can loft their children through those educational goalposts? <g> (Irresistable image -- sorry.)
Betsy
Most of them are relaxed/eclectic, but still use curriculum
materials, some are charter, and most have "educational goals" for their
children. **
How many points do you suppose they get if they can loft their children through those educational goalposts? <g> (Irresistable image -- sorry.)
Betsy
jimpetersonl
> So I guess what I am trying to ask is I feel like we are unschoolersI think that would depend on if you see unschooling as only an
> already. Is that truly not possible?
> -Vijay
educational method or not.
If you see it as a form of "curriculum" (I use that term loosely),
then, no you're not "really" unschooling until the magic school-age
for your state.
If you see it as a lifestyle choice (as you seem to), then, yes, you
are already unschoolers. (I'm of the latter opinion).
~Sue
M184504
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/23/04 7:35:35 PM, vijayowens@... writes:
<< Is the family who decided to unschool from birth suddenly transformed by
the click of the clock over to midnight on the first day of school? >>
Not all decisions made at birth are still in effect five years later.
<<Are
they suddenly in possession of a whole new set of ideals and credos
because their child went from being pre-school age to being school aged?>>
I don't think unschooling is ideals and credos. I think it's natural
learning instead of school.
<<Isn't the family who decided to unschool from birth "living and
learning" from real life just as the parents of older children are vs.
employing hothousing practices such as flash cards to cause pre-school
learning to happen artificially?>>
Yes. Just like people learned before schools were invented. Just like
people learn who go to school and then get out and start learning on their own.
Just like schoolkids learned before they went to school (if they were lucky; the
way I learned before I went to school).
I did a TON of learning on my own as a kid--in the summer I sometimes learned
more than during the schoolyear. I learned a lot during school, reading books
under my desk. I was in 4-H, girlscouts, church education groups (Bible
history, girls' auxiliary, training union), ALL voluntarily. But I wasn't
unschooled. I was a schoolkid who liked to learn.
-=-I am a SAHM and have many other responsibilities besides taking care of
my child (shopping, cooking, cleaning, gardening, starting a nonprofit,
taking care of pets, etc.) responsibilities that would be much easier to
handle if I put my child in daycare. But I have the same problems with
daycare that I have with school: not enough one on one interaction, too
much emphasis on "schoolish" activities, too much emphasis on gender
specific toys, discipline that is too punitive, artificial division of
the day into different activities based on a pre-formed schedule, etc. I
could go on all day.-=-
It's called attachment parenting. I think it's wonderful. Did it myself!
<<So because I believe so wholeheartedly in the unschooling philosophy, I
choose to "unschool" starting now, rather than to put my child in the
hands of someone who would make her eat "balanced meals," or tell her
that she can't use finger paints because it's time to be read to, or
whatever.>>
Attachment parenting, isn't it?
<<It goes beyond the choice to send my child to daycare or not though. It
encompasses my decisions to let her eat what she wants, play with
whatever toy she wants, go outside when she wants, brush her own teeth,
etc. rather than imposing arbitrary limits. Limits that are the norm in
most families.>>
Mindful, respectful parenting.
<<I feel like I am already doing it (unschooling) at least to the maximum
extent that I can for a 15 month old. There are some decisions that I
feel must still be made for her but in the not too distant future I
think she will be able to make them herself too.>>
I think that kind of mindful freedom-allowing parenting is a good framework
for unschooling families, but it is not in and of itself unschooling, in my
opinion.
-=-So I guess what I am trying to ask is I feel like we are unschoolers
already. Is that truly not possible?-=-
We're talking about words and concepts and categories. I don't consider it
unschooling. Others do.
Sandra
<< Is the family who decided to unschool from birth suddenly transformed by
the click of the clock over to midnight on the first day of school? >>
Not all decisions made at birth are still in effect five years later.
<<Are
they suddenly in possession of a whole new set of ideals and credos
because their child went from being pre-school age to being school aged?>>
I don't think unschooling is ideals and credos. I think it's natural
learning instead of school.
<<Isn't the family who decided to unschool from birth "living and
learning" from real life just as the parents of older children are vs.
employing hothousing practices such as flash cards to cause pre-school
learning to happen artificially?>>
Yes. Just like people learned before schools were invented. Just like
people learn who go to school and then get out and start learning on their own.
Just like schoolkids learned before they went to school (if they were lucky; the
way I learned before I went to school).
I did a TON of learning on my own as a kid--in the summer I sometimes learned
more than during the schoolyear. I learned a lot during school, reading books
under my desk. I was in 4-H, girlscouts, church education groups (Bible
history, girls' auxiliary, training union), ALL voluntarily. But I wasn't
unschooled. I was a schoolkid who liked to learn.
-=-I am a SAHM and have many other responsibilities besides taking care of
my child (shopping, cooking, cleaning, gardening, starting a nonprofit,
taking care of pets, etc.) responsibilities that would be much easier to
handle if I put my child in daycare. But I have the same problems with
daycare that I have with school: not enough one on one interaction, too
much emphasis on "schoolish" activities, too much emphasis on gender
specific toys, discipline that is too punitive, artificial division of
the day into different activities based on a pre-formed schedule, etc. I
could go on all day.-=-
It's called attachment parenting. I think it's wonderful. Did it myself!
<<So because I believe so wholeheartedly in the unschooling philosophy, I
choose to "unschool" starting now, rather than to put my child in the
hands of someone who would make her eat "balanced meals," or tell her
that she can't use finger paints because it's time to be read to, or
whatever.>>
Attachment parenting, isn't it?
<<It goes beyond the choice to send my child to daycare or not though. It
encompasses my decisions to let her eat what she wants, play with
whatever toy she wants, go outside when she wants, brush her own teeth,
etc. rather than imposing arbitrary limits. Limits that are the norm in
most families.>>
Mindful, respectful parenting.
<<I feel like I am already doing it (unschooling) at least to the maximum
extent that I can for a 15 month old. There are some decisions that I
feel must still be made for her but in the not too distant future I
think she will be able to make them herself too.>>
I think that kind of mindful freedom-allowing parenting is a good framework
for unschooling families, but it is not in and of itself unschooling, in my
opinion.
-=-So I guess what I am trying to ask is I feel like we are unschoolers
already. Is that truly not possible?-=-
We're talking about words and concepts and categories. I don't consider it
unschooling. Others do.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/23/04 7:41:13 PM, jimpetersonl@... writes:
<< I'm suggesting that unschooling (and homeschooling, for that
matter), are separate from school >>
Without school, why would there be "homeschool"?
Unschooling is a subset of homeschooling, and methods aside, if there were
never any school, nor any requirement of school, why would there be a
designation that said "not school"?
Sandra
<< I'm suggesting that unschooling (and homeschooling, for that
matter), are separate from school >>
Without school, why would there be "homeschool"?
Unschooling is a subset of homeschooling, and methods aside, if there were
never any school, nor any requirement of school, why would there be a
designation that said "not school"?
Sandra
Christine ONeal
SandraDodd@... wrote:
The exception and dissent seems mostly to be from Delaware, which is weird. There are places in that part of the world where kids get on waiting lists
for preschools before they're even born, and to be cool among moms, your two year old needs to be in a prep school. They assure me this is seriously true.
In such cases, some families have to fight the relatives and say "we're homeschooling" when their kid can't even pull up his own pants."
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The exception and dissent seems mostly to be from Delaware, which is weird. There are places in that part of the world where kids get on waiting lists
for preschools before they're even born, and to be cool among moms, your two year old needs to be in a prep school. They assure me this is seriously true.
In such cases, some families have to fight the relatives and say "we're homeschooling" when their kid can't even pull up his own pants."
>>That is weird. I'm in Delaware now, have been since my son was a year old. I'm not one that has argued with you about it. However, I can confirm that if your child reaches the age of 4 in Delaware and they aren't in preschool you are the odd one out. I started saying we were homeschooling when my son was 4 and didn't go to preschool. It is expected that any child over the age of 3 is in school. It is easier to say we are homeschooling than to explain that we plan to homeschool when he is school-age. I even know people that are planning to homeschool that are sending their young children to preschool. So while I know I'm not officially homeschooling, it is easier to tell people I am.Christy O
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Gold Standard
"Is the family who decided to unschool from birth suddenly transformed by
the click of the clock over to midnight on the first day of school? Are
they suddenly in possession of a whole new set of ideals and credos
because their child went from being pre-school age to being school aged?"
I had a similar question. Why would we use the school systems' arbitrary age
requirements to decide at what age we are considered unschooling? Maybe it's
just a logistical thing that helps distinguish when someone actually bucks
the system.
Jacki
the click of the clock over to midnight on the first day of school? Are
they suddenly in possession of a whole new set of ideals and credos
because their child went from being pre-school age to being school aged?"
I had a similar question. Why would we use the school systems' arbitrary age
requirements to decide at what age we are considered unschooling? Maybe it's
just a logistical thing that helps distinguish when someone actually bucks
the system.
Jacki
Pam Hartley
> Without school, why would there be "homeschool"?I have used myself the wording (probably got it from you to begin with <g>)
> Unschooling is a subset of homeschooling, and methods aside, if there were
> never any school, nor any requirement of school, why would there be a
> designation that said "not school"?
that unschooling a subset of homeschooling. I'm starting to think that's not
so. I'm starting to think that unschooling is not-schooling and has nothing
to do with homeschooling other than the fact that children doing either
don't go to a school building. I think the various forms of homeschooling
and school have a much closer relationship than homeschooling and
unschooling do.
These are new thoughts <g> but this is what I'm thinking tonight.
Pam
Jason & Stephanie
<<<<< I'm starting to think that unschooling is not-schooling and has nothing
to do with homeschooling other than the fact that children doing either
don't go to a school building. I think the various forms of homeschooling
and school have a much closer relationship than homeschooling and
unschooling do.
These are new thoughts <g> but this is what I'm thinking tonight.>>>>>>>>>
*******I have to agree to this line of thinking, it makes sense. What we do has nothing to do with school. Many people who "homeschool" are using some variation of "school" where unschoolers do not.
What else are you thinking, Pam?
Stephanie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to do with homeschooling other than the fact that children doing either
don't go to a school building. I think the various forms of homeschooling
and school have a much closer relationship than homeschooling and
unschooling do.
These are new thoughts <g> but this is what I'm thinking tonight.>>>>>>>>>
*******I have to agree to this line of thinking, it makes sense. What we do has nothing to do with school. Many people who "homeschool" are using some variation of "school" where unschoolers do not.
What else are you thinking, Pam?
Stephanie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/23/04 8:28:15 PM, christy_imnotred@... writes:
<< It is easier to say we are homeschooling than to explain that we plan to
homeschool when he is school-age. I even know people that are planning to
homeschool that are sending their young children to preschool. So while I know
I'm not officially homeschooling, it is easier to tell people I am. >>
But in an environment where everyone expects you to have him in school, it
makes sense. In an environment where people would think you were somewhere
between irreponsible and abusive to put him in school (like you're home, and he's
two or three, and you're in New Mexico <g>) I don't see why "we're
homeschooling" helps anybody, anything, homeschooling...
Sandra
<< It is easier to say we are homeschooling than to explain that we plan to
homeschool when he is school-age. I even know people that are planning to
homeschool that are sending their young children to preschool. So while I know
I'm not officially homeschooling, it is easier to tell people I am. >>
But in an environment where everyone expects you to have him in school, it
makes sense. In an environment where people would think you were somewhere
between irreponsible and abusive to put him in school (like you're home, and he's
two or three, and you're in New Mexico <g>) I don't see why "we're
homeschooling" helps anybody, anything, homeschooling...
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/23/04 8:40:36 PM, contact@... writes:
<< Why would we use the school systems' arbitrary age
requirements to decide at what age we are considered unschooling? >>
Because it's a lack of schooling/school.
Sandra
<< Why would we use the school systems' arbitrary age
requirements to decide at what age we are considered unschooling? >>
Because it's a lack of schooling/school.
Sandra
averyschmidt
>I'm starting to think that unschooling is not-schooling and hasnothing
> to do with homeschooling other than the fact that children doingeither
> don't go to a school building. I think the various forms ofhomeschooling
> and school have a much closer relationship than homeschooling andTo me, the best way that I can describe to someone who's curious
> unschooling do.
what my family does instead of school is to say that we live as
though school doesn't exist. This is the reason that I don't even
love to use the word "unschool" but rather learning through living
or some other variation that isn't so reactionary to the concept of
school.
So in that sense, the kind of lifestyle that we are striving for can
certainly start at day one (birth). I guess it seems to me that the
lifestyle -apart from labels- has no age limit, but once you attach
the word "unschool" to it then it makes sense that you must be
school age to "un"do it. Does that make sense? I'm thinking as I
type. :-/
Patti
Vijay Berry Owens
When I wrote that, I meant to include a reference to the "first day of
school" discussion that has been going on in the unschooling discussion
group. It seemed to be a point of great pride amongst unschoolers to
report, "We didn't even notice when the first day of school happened, we
are that indifferent to it," or something along those lines when asked
how do they celebrate not going back to school.
So why is the first day of kindergarten for one family so significant if
the rest of the first days of school are so beneath the notice of most
unschoolers? I tend to think that when DD turns 5 or 6 (not sure what
the law is, just moved here, I'll have to look it up) WE won't notice
when the first day of school rolls around either. How would we even know
unless we actively went seeking that info? Why would we care?
Someone said here recently that unschooling is a subset of
homeschooling, that without school, there would be no homeschooling. I
don't look at it that way at all. That we need to focus on the existence
of school to emphasize the choice to homeschool, and that unschooling is
a type of homeschooling . . . I don't know, it doesn't feel right. It
feels too . . . inextricably connected to the school system. Like if I
am wearing a black shirt, I don't refer to it as a "not white" shirt.
It's apparent and need not be emphasized. If there were no such thing as
school there would be ONLY homeschooling. So I don't get that.
I feel absolutely no pull to define myself in terms of "not school" or
even "X type of homeschooler." I wish there was a term for unschooling
that didn't even contain the word school. Some call it child-led
learning, or delight-driven learning. Those seem to me to be a more
accurate description of what unschooling is.
Of course that is totally subjective, I'm not suggesting that anyone
should stop calling themselves unschoolers if that's what they prefer.
But the more I am told that what I am doing is attachment parenting and
not unschooling, the more disenchanted I become with the term
unschooling. Attachment parenting has to do with being responsive, yes,
but it's not about removing limits the way unschooling is. There are WAY
more limits in most AP households than in mine. And even more limits in
non AP households. I am consciously implementing the unschooling
philosophy now, so that there is no difficult transition later. That is
not the same as practicing AP.
Whenever I raise a concern about the future for my family in the context
of unschooling, I am often told by those who have been through it, "Just
live life and it'll work out." So that's more how I've started thinking
about unschooling. Not as a type of homeschooler or as the anti-school
but just as a liver of life. Not liver like ew LIVER, but a person who
lives.
;-)
-Vijay
school" discussion that has been going on in the unschooling discussion
group. It seemed to be a point of great pride amongst unschoolers to
report, "We didn't even notice when the first day of school happened, we
are that indifferent to it," or something along those lines when asked
how do they celebrate not going back to school.
So why is the first day of kindergarten for one family so significant if
the rest of the first days of school are so beneath the notice of most
unschoolers? I tend to think that when DD turns 5 or 6 (not sure what
the law is, just moved here, I'll have to look it up) WE won't notice
when the first day of school rolls around either. How would we even know
unless we actively went seeking that info? Why would we care?
Someone said here recently that unschooling is a subset of
homeschooling, that without school, there would be no homeschooling. I
don't look at it that way at all. That we need to focus on the existence
of school to emphasize the choice to homeschool, and that unschooling is
a type of homeschooling . . . I don't know, it doesn't feel right. It
feels too . . . inextricably connected to the school system. Like if I
am wearing a black shirt, I don't refer to it as a "not white" shirt.
It's apparent and need not be emphasized. If there were no such thing as
school there would be ONLY homeschooling. So I don't get that.
I feel absolutely no pull to define myself in terms of "not school" or
even "X type of homeschooler." I wish there was a term for unschooling
that didn't even contain the word school. Some call it child-led
learning, or delight-driven learning. Those seem to me to be a more
accurate description of what unschooling is.
Of course that is totally subjective, I'm not suggesting that anyone
should stop calling themselves unschoolers if that's what they prefer.
But the more I am told that what I am doing is attachment parenting and
not unschooling, the more disenchanted I become with the term
unschooling. Attachment parenting has to do with being responsive, yes,
but it's not about removing limits the way unschooling is. There are WAY
more limits in most AP households than in mine. And even more limits in
non AP households. I am consciously implementing the unschooling
philosophy now, so that there is no difficult transition later. That is
not the same as practicing AP.
Whenever I raise a concern about the future for my family in the context
of unschooling, I am often told by those who have been through it, "Just
live life and it'll work out." So that's more how I've started thinking
about unschooling. Not as a type of homeschooler or as the anti-school
but just as a liver of life. Not liver like ew LIVER, but a person who
lives.
;-)
-Vijay
On Monday, August 23, 2004, at 10:39 PM, Gold Standard wrote:
> "Is the family who decided to unschool from birth suddenly transformed
> by
> the click of the clock over to midnight on the first day of school? Are
> they suddenly in possession of a whole new set of ideals and credos
> because their child went from being pre-school age to being school
> aged?"
>
> I had a similar question. Why would we use the school systems'
> arbitrary age
> requirements to decide at what age we are considered unschooling? Maybe
> it's
> just a logistical thing that helps distinguish when someone actually
> bucks
> the system.
>
> Jacki
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/23/04 9:20:38 PM, pamhartley@... writes:
<< I think the various forms of homeschooling
and school have a much closer relationship than homeschooling and
unschooling do. >>
There are different ways the same things can be grouped and regrouped.
Legally and linguistically they're related.
Philosophically, school and structured homeschooling are the same, and
unschooling and attachment parenting are the same.
But parenting doesn't have 12 or so years of legal requirements that some
people opt out of by exemption/exception.
Lots of times when people have talked to me about "we're all in this
together" or tried to tell me in short summary why people homeschool, I have used a
visual model (works best at restaurants or tables at home) where I put something
big in the middle, and set something off to one side of it and say
"Structured homeschoolers think the school is too lax, exposes kids to too much, doesn't
control them well enough." And I set some matching thing on the far other
side of the school thing and say "Some people homeschool because they think the
schools are too rigid, don't expose kids to much, and controls them too much."
If school didn't exist, or if compulsory attendance were abolished as a law
or concept, I would not say "I unschool." I would say "my kids don't go to
school."
But that's what I say now, most of the time! <g>
<< I think the various forms of homeschooling
and school have a much closer relationship than homeschooling and
unschooling do. >>
There are different ways the same things can be grouped and regrouped.
Legally and linguistically they're related.
Philosophically, school and structured homeschooling are the same, and
unschooling and attachment parenting are the same.
But parenting doesn't have 12 or so years of legal requirements that some
people opt out of by exemption/exception.
Lots of times when people have talked to me about "we're all in this
together" or tried to tell me in short summary why people homeschool, I have used a
visual model (works best at restaurants or tables at home) where I put something
big in the middle, and set something off to one side of it and say
"Structured homeschoolers think the school is too lax, exposes kids to too much, doesn't
control them well enough." And I set some matching thing on the far other
side of the school thing and say "Some people homeschool because they think the
schools are too rigid, don't expose kids to much, and controls them too much."
If school didn't exist, or if compulsory attendance were abolished as a law
or concept, I would not say "I unschool." I would say "my kids don't go to
school."
But that's what I say now, most of the time! <g>
Elizabeth Hill
<< Is the family who decided to unschool from birth suddenly transformed by
the click of the clock over to midnight on the first day of school? >>
Yeah. I think that's when the cocoon really cracks open and the gorgeous multi-colored wings unfurl.
Before that, one isn't a butterfly, but just a potential butterfly.
Betsy
the click of the clock over to midnight on the first day of school? >>
Yeah. I think that's when the cocoon really cracks open and the gorgeous multi-colored wings unfurl.
Before that, one isn't a butterfly, but just a potential butterfly.
Betsy
eriksmama2001
I think the difference between homeschooling and unschooling is the
use of coercion.
Pat--- In [email protected], "Pam Hartley"
<pamhartley@m...> wrote:
use of coercion.
Pat--- In [email protected], "Pam Hartley"
<pamhartley@m...> wrote:
> > Without school, why would there be "homeschool"?there were
> > Unschooling is a subset of homeschooling, and methods aside, if
> > never any school, nor any requirement of school, why would therebe a
> > designation that said "not school"?with <g>)
>
> I have used myself the wording (probably got it from you to begin
> that unschooling a subset of homeschooling. I'm starting to thinkthat's not
> so. I'm starting to think that unschooling is not-schooling and hasnothing
> to do with homeschooling other than the fact that children doingeither
> don't go to a school building. I think the various forms ofhomeschooling
> and school have a much closer relationship than homeschooling and
> unschooling do.
>
> These are new thoughts <g> but this is what I'm thinking tonight.
>
> Pam
Elizabeth Hill
**
Of course that is totally subjective, I'm not suggesting that anyone
should stop calling themselves unschoolers if that's what they prefer. **
There's really no worry involved with having a fifteen month old who doesn't know the multiplication tables. <g>
You may be on the path, but you haven't really walked in the mocassins of parents of unschooled kids older than 5. I don't think you are aware of the concerns of unschooled parents of kids that age, but you'll probably pick up a pretty good picture as you continue to read here.
Betsy
Of course that is totally subjective, I'm not suggesting that anyone
should stop calling themselves unschoolers if that's what they prefer. **
There's really no worry involved with having a fifteen month old who doesn't know the multiplication tables. <g>
You may be on the path, but you haven't really walked in the mocassins of parents of unschooled kids older than 5. I don't think you are aware of the concerns of unschooled parents of kids that age, but you'll probably pick up a pretty good picture as you continue to read here.
Betsy
Gold Standard
Of course that is totally subjective, I'm not suggesting that anyone
should stop calling themselves unschoolers if that's what they prefer. **
"There's really no worry involved with having a fifteen month old who
doesn't know the multiplication tables. <g>
You may be on the path, but you haven't really walked in the mocassins of
parents of unschooled kids older than 5. I don't think you are aware of the
concerns of unschooled parents of kids that age, but you'll probably pick up
a pretty good picture as you continue to read here."
I always hated when people told me before I had kids that I couldn't
possibly understand parenting until I did. Though they were right, I'm not
sure what helpful purpose there was in telling me so.
Yahoo! Groups Links
should stop calling themselves unschoolers if that's what they prefer. **
"There's really no worry involved with having a fifteen month old who
doesn't know the multiplication tables. <g>
You may be on the path, but you haven't really walked in the mocassins of
parents of unschooled kids older than 5. I don't think you are aware of the
concerns of unschooled parents of kids that age, but you'll probably pick up
a pretty good picture as you continue to read here."
I always hated when people told me before I had kids that I couldn't
possibly understand parenting until I did. Though they were right, I'm not
sure what helpful purpose there was in telling me so.
Yahoo! Groups Links
Vijay Berry Owens
> There's really no worry involved with having a fifteen month old whoFor me there is no worry in having a 5 year old or a 10 year old or a 15
> doesn't know the multiplication tables. <g>
year old who doesn't know the multiplication tables. Doesn't that "not
worrying" make me an unschooler? I think it does. Anyone is free to
disagree of course.
>I never claimed to have walked in their shoes. I just claimed to be no
> You may be on the path, but you haven't really walked in the mocassins
> of parents of unschooled kids older than 5.
less an unschooler just because my daughter is younger than 5. I will be
the same person I was the night before the first day of school in her
6th year as I will be the next day. So will she. We will continue to do
what we have done every day up until then, follow our interests. And
whether that day is the first day of school or not will have no impact
on us. None.
That is what an unschooler does in my opinion. That's what we are doing
now, following our interests, or rather her interests. I follow my
interests when she's sleeping, which seems like never sometimes. ;-)
That's not what everyone with a toddler is doing, believe me. They are
doing what they think they are "supposed" to do, whether they are aiming
for a certain preschool or even if they aren't planning to do preschool
or school at all.
Some of them are imposing a ridiculous amount of structure on children
younger than mine. They are on a "track" whether it's to have a
homeschooled spelling champ or to get into THE preschool in their area,
they are pressuring and testing their kids already.
Others are doing nothing at all, and I mean NOTHING other than feed,
clothe, and provide shelter. That is not unschooling. I do not want to
be lumped in with them just because we have children that are the same
age and told that the only difference between us is that their children
will eventually go to kindergarten and mine won't.
> I don't think you are aware of the concerns of unschooled parents ofI never claimed to be aware of ANY concerns of the parent of a 5 year
> kids that age, but you'll probably pick up a pretty good picture as you
> continue to read here.
old, unschooled or not. I have never yet been the mother of a 5 year
old, so I can't and wouldn't speak about how it would be. But I have
been, and continue to be, an unschooler, and proud of it, man.
-Vijay
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sahhsm
HOMESCHOOL:
Homeschool (all one word), and it's derivatives (-ed, -ing, -s,
etc.) does indeed have a definition. HSLDA defined it for us,
and "endorsed" this spelling as the one they will use within the
organization. Spelling it this way is to signify that you are a
parent that is doing school at home for religious related reasons
(preserving a religion, separatism from the secular world, or
separatism from school policy or curriculum choices).
Many HSLDA members, people they lobby to, and the general public
they encountered, were using different terms to describe learning at
home. So HSLDA chose to go with "homeschool" universally. There
are implications, mostly hypothetical now, but remember, in a less
free society, the group closest to the power will have the say in
the term, and thus who might be eligible to be under
the "homeschooling" umbrella.
HOME SCHOOL or HOME-SCHOOL (notice it's all not one word):
Bear with my scattered thoughts here...HOME SCHOOL with a space is
gramatically correct. A hyphen would not be technically, but if
someone here or there in the home ed world could define home school
with a hyphen and make it a popularized term.
Why do I care? Since HSLDA definded homeschool, I guess the rest of
the non-ps'ers thar are not in school for reasons other than
religious do not fit into that term. For now, the spelling is a
seemingly small technicality and spelling it all different ways goes
on because it hasn't caught on in many groups or the media. I've
wasted a fair amount of needless time (?) on a lot of what if,
futuristic, hypothetical questions that ponder where would we be, as
home-schoolers if the term homeschooling was somehow made the only
way to define school or learning away from brick and mortar (or
cyberschool) school. Onto...
SUB-CATEGORIES:
The terms eclectic schooling, classical schooling, cyberschooling,
CM, WTM, Ambelside, Waldorf, and so on, AND, unschooling could be
considered sub categories of both homeschooling and home schooling.
True unschooling would be rare for the homeschooler, but it could
happen.
BACK TO UNSCHOOLING:
I think it's high time that there be three categories:
homeschooling, home-schooling, and unschooling. Since homeschooling
has been defined for us by HSLDA, it's up to others to define the
differences between home school and unschool in the public/political
forum. Sort of a we can do what they can do "thang". Pam?
Sandra? Robin?
*****************************
Someone made the term unschooling stick with me somewhere here, or
on the big board. I printed out part of the post, but I can't
credit the proper person - I'm sorry! What made total sense to me
was that true unschoolers really "get" the following terms (I'm
going to quote the poster here):
autonomous living,
non-coercive parenting,
mutually agreed upon solutions, and
consensual living*
I agree with poster GoldStandard, that you need to walk the walk
with an unschooler, home schooler or what ever, to talk the talk
Until that time (somewhere psychologically around the 5- to 7-
mental schema shift is the point I think previous posters were
trying to convey the mental "switch" outward to learning), parents
with younger children may benefit more from boards dealing with the
above as well as attachment parenting rather than primarily here?
~Diane
*Oh, and thank you, thank you, thank you for these terms! I read who-
ever-you are's post each day and after reading up on the topics have
started implementing them with great, great success! All those
seemingly unruly unschoolers with out passions, or those using some
curriculum, or unschool parents disciplining their child with
bribes/coercion/consequences, etc., just didn't jive with my
thoughts and readings about what true unschooling was. For the
longest time, I just couldn't put the learning style and life style
together as true unschooling. Now I know! Or at least I've defined
it for myself...
I've met some wonderful parents that have married lifestyle and
unschooling, and now can tell the differences between which
unschooling families "do" and "don't". I hope I'm making sense!
Homeschool (all one word), and it's derivatives (-ed, -ing, -s,
etc.) does indeed have a definition. HSLDA defined it for us,
and "endorsed" this spelling as the one they will use within the
organization. Spelling it this way is to signify that you are a
parent that is doing school at home for religious related reasons
(preserving a religion, separatism from the secular world, or
separatism from school policy or curriculum choices).
Many HSLDA members, people they lobby to, and the general public
they encountered, were using different terms to describe learning at
home. So HSLDA chose to go with "homeschool" universally. There
are implications, mostly hypothetical now, but remember, in a less
free society, the group closest to the power will have the say in
the term, and thus who might be eligible to be under
the "homeschooling" umbrella.
HOME SCHOOL or HOME-SCHOOL (notice it's all not one word):
Bear with my scattered thoughts here...HOME SCHOOL with a space is
gramatically correct. A hyphen would not be technically, but if
someone here or there in the home ed world could define home school
with a hyphen and make it a popularized term.
Why do I care? Since HSLDA definded homeschool, I guess the rest of
the non-ps'ers thar are not in school for reasons other than
religious do not fit into that term. For now, the spelling is a
seemingly small technicality and spelling it all different ways goes
on because it hasn't caught on in many groups or the media. I've
wasted a fair amount of needless time (?) on a lot of what if,
futuristic, hypothetical questions that ponder where would we be, as
home-schoolers if the term homeschooling was somehow made the only
way to define school or learning away from brick and mortar (or
cyberschool) school. Onto...
SUB-CATEGORIES:
The terms eclectic schooling, classical schooling, cyberschooling,
CM, WTM, Ambelside, Waldorf, and so on, AND, unschooling could be
considered sub categories of both homeschooling and home schooling.
True unschooling would be rare for the homeschooler, but it could
happen.
BACK TO UNSCHOOLING:
I think it's high time that there be three categories:
homeschooling, home-schooling, and unschooling. Since homeschooling
has been defined for us by HSLDA, it's up to others to define the
differences between home school and unschool in the public/political
forum. Sort of a we can do what they can do "thang". Pam?
Sandra? Robin?
*****************************
> > So I guess what I am trying to ask is I feel like we areunschoolers
> > already. Is that truly not possible?STARTING TO UNSCHOOL:
> > -Vijay
Someone made the term unschooling stick with me somewhere here, or
on the big board. I printed out part of the post, but I can't
credit the proper person - I'm sorry! What made total sense to me
was that true unschoolers really "get" the following terms (I'm
going to quote the poster here):
autonomous living,
non-coercive parenting,
mutually agreed upon solutions, and
consensual living*
I agree with poster GoldStandard, that you need to walk the walk
with an unschooler, home schooler or what ever, to talk the talk
Until that time (somewhere psychologically around the 5- to 7-
mental schema shift is the point I think previous posters were
trying to convey the mental "switch" outward to learning), parents
with younger children may benefit more from boards dealing with the
above as well as attachment parenting rather than primarily here?
~Diane
*Oh, and thank you, thank you, thank you for these terms! I read who-
ever-you are's post each day and after reading up on the topics have
started implementing them with great, great success! All those
seemingly unruly unschoolers with out passions, or those using some
curriculum, or unschool parents disciplining their child with
bribes/coercion/consequences, etc., just didn't jive with my
thoughts and readings about what true unschooling was. For the
longest time, I just couldn't put the learning style and life style
together as true unschooling. Now I know! Or at least I've defined
it for myself...
I've met some wonderful parents that have married lifestyle and
unschooling, and now can tell the differences between which
unschooling families "do" and "don't". I hope I'm making sense!