[email protected]

In a message dated 8/22/2004 5:03:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
I never said she was doing it intentionally to be cute,
just that it might strike some people as being cute if they saw it. It's
SO dramatic and nothing is really wrong.
Hmmm...
"Nothing is really wrong."
Then why is the child crying?
Because something is wrong.

Elissa Jill
Life's challenges are not supposed to paralyze you;
They're supposed to help you discover who you are.
~Bernice Johnson Reagon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Hartley

> Part of the reason why DH found her outburst amusing and cute, rather
> than disturbing, is because he knew nothing MAJOR was wrong. If she fell
> and smashed her head open on the concrete steps in front of our house,
> his response to her crying (and her cry itself) would have been much
> different.


It doesn't have to be physical pain to be major. I have found that
compassion to family members in any kind of pain goes a long way in
eliciting their compassion as well.

If I had suffered a disappointment that made me cry and my husband or
children found my reaction cute and amusing, it would not leave a warm
lasting impression on me of how much they care. I find it useful to put
myself in the place of how a child feels vs. how I would feel in a similar
situation, taking into account the emotions and not trying to minimize the
cause of the emotions.

Do unto others applies to children, too.

Pam

Vijay Berry Owens

Very cute. Yes. *Something* is wrong. But nothing is REALLY wrong,
meaning VERY wrong. See my original, carefully chosen wording please.

She is *disappointed* and it passes quickly when we move on to the next
thing.

She is not in physical pain from an injury. She is not starving. She is
not scared. She is not lonely or neglected. I am there for her if she
wants a hug.

Part of the reason why DH found her outburst amusing and cute, rather
than disturbing, is because he knew nothing MAJOR was wrong. If she fell
and smashed her head open on the concrete steps in front of our house,
his response to her crying (and her cry itself) would have been much
different.

-Vijay


On Sunday, August 22, 2004, at 08:10 AM, Earthmomma67@... wrote:

> In a message dated 8/22/2004 5:03:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [email protected] writes:
> I never said she was doing it intentionally to be cute,
> just that it might strike some people as being cute if they saw it. It's
> SO dramatic and nothing is really wrong.
> Hmmm...
> "Nothing is really wrong."
> Then why is the child crying?�
> Because something is wrong.
>
> Elissa Jill
> Life's challenges are not supposed to paralyze you;
> They're supposed to help you discover who you are.
> ~Bernice Johnson Reagon
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

>
>

>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> � To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
> �
> � To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
> �
> � Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Hartley

> I am really trying to bow out of this discussion after Sandra said I was
> going into too much detail about a baby. But people keep posting things
> that I feel I must address.

On a public message board, people may very well post messages in response to
what you write. That is the nature of the beast. There is absolutely no need
to respond to them, even if (maybe ESPECIALLY if) you're feeling like you
need to defend yourself. You don't need to. None of us has the slightest
power over you, your family, or your decisions, so you can just let it go.

Letting things settle and move on is fine. Taking some days to quietly
reflect on what people say, with or without response and with or without
ultimately agreeing with anything they think, is also fine (and often wise).

> 1. It's NOT major. I know my child and I am not minimizing her emotions

That brings up an interesting side topic on judging, even with intimate
knowledge of another person, how "major" their distress is at any given
time. I tend to want to err on the side of assuming that someone who is
crying needs comfort, rather than assuming that it's no big thing and
passing by their distress. If I offer the comfort and they don't need it,
that shows soon enough and no harm done. If I fail to and they did need it,
that's bad.

Pam

Vijay Berry Owens

I am really trying to bow out of this discussion after Sandra said I was
going into too much detail about a baby. But people keep posting things
that I feel I must address.

1. It's NOT major. I know my child and I am not minimizing her emotions
just because they aren't physical pain. If it was major, the crying
would go on for a lot longer and she would want to be held, snuggled,
etc. This is just MINOR frustration, disappointment that she prefers to
work out on her own. I am totally there for her 110%.

2. Perhaps you missed the beginning of the thread, but the whole reason
why I mentioned DH finding this amusing in the first place was because I
cautioned him not to laugh. I know how it makes a child feel when they
are upset and someone laughs at them, my father used to laugh at me all
the time when I got upset. The more upset I got the more he would laugh.
Not fun. That is why I told my DH to contain his laughter and he
understood and promised to from now on. Part of his laughter was also
surprise because he had never before witnessed her getting so upset when
a video ended. Because it doesn't happen every time, just sometimes.
He's not unfeeling or lacking in compassion. Neither am I.

3. We treat each other with compassion in this family and we are setting
a very good example in general for DD in the way we treat each other in
general on a day to day basis. I know how powerful teaching by example
is.

-Vijay


On Sunday, August 22, 2004, at 03:44 PM, Pam Hartley wrote:

> > Part of the reason why DH found her outburst amusing and cute, rather
> > than disturbing, is because he knew nothing MAJOR was wrong. If she
> fell
> > and smashed her head open on the concrete steps in front of our house,
> > his response to her crying (and her cry itself) would have been much
> > different.
>
>
> It doesn't have to be physical pain to be major. I have found that
> compassion to family members in any kind of pain goes a long way in
> eliciting their compassion as well.
>
> If I had suffered a disappointment that made me cry and my husband or
> children found my reaction cute and amusing, it would not leave a warm
> lasting impression on me of how much they care. I find it useful to put
> myself in the place of how a child feels vs. how I would feel in a
> similar
> situation, taking into account the emotions and not trying to minimize
> the
> cause of the emotions.
>
> Do unto others applies to children, too.
>
> Pam
>

>
>

>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> � To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
> �
> � To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
> �
> � Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/22/2004 1:34:31 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
vijayowens@... writes:
Very cute. Yes. *Something* is wrong. But nothing is REALLY wrong,
meaning VERY wrong. See my original, carefully chosen wording please.
-------------

Elissa did not intend to be cute.
Neither did your daughter.

Crying is communication.
I don't maintain this list for people to make recommendations that are not
respectful of children.
We are not going back to your original "carefully chosen wording."

People can talk about the ideas on the table, where they relate to
unschooling.

You ignore your daughter's crying sometimes, and since you have made yourself
the judge of what is really worth attention, her communication is made less
valid.
You're ignoring my opinion about your posts, and since you have made yourself
the judge of what is worth regarding on this list, you need to either pay
more attention to my communications or find another list.

From the list's description, in case you missed it:

-=-This is a moderated group, with trapdoors for the uncooperative. (Not
moderated in the advance-approval way, but in the be-nice-to-play way.) It's an
idea group and is intended to lean more toward pure unschooling than neutral,
general homeschooling discussion--there are hundreds of general homeschooling
discussions for newcomers. It's to focus more toward how people learn no matter
where in the world they are, rather than on what's legal in any particular
country or jurisdiction-=-

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Debra Kattler

I was away during this conversation so am chiming in late. But I've
been thinking about this idea of explaining oneself after getting
responses to what one said. I agree with Pam that one doesn't need to
defend oneself. I do think it can be very useful to explain why you
think the way you do if you know you have an entrenched idea about
something. What I mean is that you might know that it isn't helpful to
your family for you to dig in your heels about a particular issue but
you're having trouble getting past your own fears or upbringing or
whatever. A discussion list like this can really help us see our own
biases, weaknesses, fears, etc. and can help us see where we might be
irrational about something.

Debra


> > I am really trying to bow out of this discussion after Sandra said I was
> > going into too much detail about a baby. But people keep posting things
> > that I feel I must address.
>
> On a public message board, people may very well post messages in
> response to
> what you write. That is the nature of the beast. There is absolutely
> no need
> to respond to them, even if (maybe ESPECIALLY if) you're feeling like you
> need to defend yourself. You don't need to. None of us has the slightest
> power over you, your family, or your decisions, so you can just let it go.
>
> Letting things settle and move on is fine. Taking some days to quietly
> reflect on what people say, with or without response and with or without
> ultimately agreeing with anything they think, is also fine (and often
> wise).
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]