Kay Alina

>She said there are times people have to things
> they don't want to.

I don't see the difference. I really don't do things I don't want to. If
I clean the house, it is because I want to, if I don't want to, it stay
dirty. I don't believe you have to do things you don't want to do. I know
this isn't the way many people feel, I just find in interesting that we
just had the conversation a month ago and now it's changing. Not pointing
fingers, just trying to understand the differences.

Anna

*****************************************************************************************************************************

It's funny because I tend to think I usually live my life from a place of choice. However, I do understand
that is not always the case. Example. I live in a two story split level house. Four floors. Three sets of stairs.
I do not want to walk up and down the damn stairs all day. However, the office is downstairs, kitchen is second floor,
Marks bedroom is on third and I am on the fourth. I guess my choice is to lay in bed on the fourth floor and not eat
all day. Sometimes I trick myself and pretend I actually enjoy the exercise. Attitude does make a difference. I choose
to have a clean sink more often than not but I do not like washing dishes. I choose to be a SAHM but I do not like
not having several hundred dollars to drop in the bank account every week. I guess in my case it is both. I choose to
live my life and compromise probably at least once a day in regard to what I want. I often want to stay in my pajamas all
day and I do that. I choose to not care what the neighbors think.
Kay

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

eriksmama2001

Infinite possibilities: you could move to another house, you could
have your husband work elsewhere, you could remodel the space to have
a mini-kitchen or refrigerator more convient, you could have an
elevator installed. Yes, you might need to choose to go back to work
or might choose not to use all your retirement money, etc. But we
always have choices.

Children however, do not always have choices in our culture because
we obstruct their liberties by using coercion. No one is obstructing
your liberties, except the tax man and the law, as Sandra pointed
out. Children's choices are often unheard or not advocated for.
Knowingly "making them" do something they don't want to do is
coercion. Someone wins and someone loses. Explaining why you want
something and then they change their mind to wanting to do it is
using persuasion. Discussiing ways to each get what you want is
negotiating for a win-win solution.

The use of rewards and punishments to persuade is manipulation, just
another tool of coercion. Making something enjoyable so that you both
want to do it is an art. It takes practice and trial and error. do
not expect yourself to know how to come to common preferences without
practice. Do not expect to be able to do it perfectly all the time.
Common preferences do exist but can not always be found immediately.

But next time we can be more creative based on our experience. I
don't believe a pattern of coercion exists with isolated coercive
events. But I do appologize when I can not find a common preference.
I acknowledge that it isn't the way that I want to interact and I
will work VERY hard not to have a pattern created. If a problem
repeats itself, it requires work to resolve. It is not easy.
Consensual living is its own reward. Liberty for all is worth working
for.

Pat

--- In [email protected], "Kay Alina" <angelsguard@s...>
wrote:
> >She said there are times people have to things
> > they don't want to.
>
> I don't see the difference. I really don't do things I don't want
to. If
> I clean the house, it is because I want to, if I don't want to, it
stay
> dirty. I don't believe you have to do things you don't want to
do. I know
> this isn't the way many people feel, I just find in interesting
that we
> just had the conversation a month ago and now it's changing. Not
pointing
> fingers, just trying to understand the differences.
>
> Anna
>
>
**********************************************************************
*******************************************************
>
> It's funny because I tend to think I usually live my life from a
place of choice. However, I do understand
> that is not always the case. Example. I live in a two story split
level house. Four floors. Three sets of stairs.
> I do not want to walk up and down the damn stairs all day.
However, the office is downstairs, kitchen is second floor,
> Marks bedroom is on third and I am on the fourth. I guess my
choice is to lay in bed on the fourth floor and not eat
> all day. Sometimes I trick myself and pretend I actually enjoy the
exercise. Attitude does make a difference. I choose
> to have a clean sink more often than not but I do not like washing
dishes. I choose to be a SAHM but I do not like
> not having several hundred dollars to drop in the bank account
every week. I guess in my case it is both. I choose to
> live my life and compromise probably at least once a day in regard
to what I want. I often want to stay in my pajamas all
> day and I do that. I choose to not care what the neighbors think.
> Kay
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/25/04 1:47:20 AM, scubamama@... writes:

<< Children however, do not always have choices in our culture because

we obstruct their liberties by using coercion. >>

That's a little too simplified.
Few three year olds want to be out in the world on their own.

-=-Explaining why you want

something and then they change their mind to wanting to do it is

using persuasion. Discussiing ways to each get what you want is

negotiating for a win-win solution. -=-

Persuasion has been called coercion in the past.

-=-The use of rewards and punishments to persuade is manipulation, just

another tool of coercion.-=-

The use of reward could be persuasion.

People persuade people to work by promising them money. That's not coercion.

Sandra