mozafamily

So I was wondering Sandra when are you going to be in IL talking
about "strewing" and what exactly does that entail? I was going to
try and make it but my plans clashed with hubby's motorcycle run so
I gracefully decided to let him have this one. Also I would love
anyone's input on the Taking Children Seriously, I have been reading
some of the website and Jan Fortune-Wood's books and they're very
interesting. Thanks for your input - Moza

Barbara Chase

>Also I would love anyone's input on the Taking Children Seriously,
>I have been reading some of the website and Jan Fortune-Wood's books...

I was intrigued with the website, haven't read any books about it, and a
few years ago participated in several email lists where TCS was discussed
quite often (one of which was the TCS list.) When I'm really present in my
life, I try to "take seriously" anyone that I relate to... so for me I like
the basic message. But I do have some input about my own experience while
on these other lists. Basically, the reason I didn't stick with the TCS
movement is because most of the discussions included too many "what if"
scenarios to make a point that things should be done this certain way.
I've seen this happen on the unschooling lists too, but usually folks who
have been doing the unschooling for awhile sit on the side of real life
examples. That wasn't my experience with TCS - I found that some of the
long time and more vocal TCS proponents were the worst at bringing up
imaginary examples to support their cause. With that said, I am not saying
that the TCS ideals promote this view, or that everyone subscribing to TCS
promotes it, or whatever..... it just came up too often on the lists for me
to stick with it. Your mileage may vary.


And I remember not long ago Sandra mentioning something about TCS on this
(or another list)... so I expect she will also have some valuable input.


ciao
--bc--

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/22/2004 11:07:31 PM Central Standard Time,
barb@... writes:

That wasn't my experience with TCS - I found that some of the
long time and more vocal TCS proponents were the worst at bringing up
imaginary examples to support their cause. With that said, I am not saying
that the TCS ideals promote this view, or that everyone subscribing to TCS
promotes it, or whatever.....


~~~

The reason they won't use real-life examples is because they think it's
wrong to talk about their own children. It IS part of the philosophy to not use
real-life examples.

I don't think Sandra is going to want to talk about TCS here, though.

Karen


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[email protected]

In a message dated 7/22/04 10:57:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mozafamily@... writes:

> Jan Fortune-Wood's books and they're very
> interesting. Thanks for your input

Personally, and probably Anna will speak up as well, I find the TCS site
confusing, actually more the web e list. I understand the reasoning behind not
talking about people, not using their names etc. But in talking about people
like examples I find it hard to follow and it really doesn't allow you to ask
questions to get a better understanding of what the person is talking about. I
read most of the articles on the web site and found that I couldn't follow
them well either and couldn't get a good grip on what exactly the position or
point was.

Now I think Jan Fortune Wood is great. Love her site. We work here with
common preference, mutually agreed on solutions and fostering the autonomy of the
individual. I do believe that each individual knows best what is right for
him or her, even children. I might know what I think is best for my boys but
only they know what IS right for them at this particular moment in time. I
also believe that we all make mistakes and we can all change our minds as well.
JFW spoke at the Rethinking Education conference, I couldn't go, but have
listened to the tapes of her sessions and they were great.

If you like JFW you might like the Nonviolent Communication stuff as well.
There is an article on that web site that I love
http://www.cnvc.org/raisekds.htm
I am reading through Rosenberg's books right now.

Just my thoughts on the subject.
Pam


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AM Brown

> > Jan Fortune-Wood's books and they're very
> > interesting. Thanks for your input
>
> Personally, and probably Anna will speak up as well,

Anna speaking up now :)

I LOVE JFW! I went half way across the country just to hear her speak at
the Rethinking Ed. Conf. and she was great! Her approach to consensual
living is really important to me and my family. Unschooling is really an
off shoot of that kind of larger philosophy.

I'm not a TCS fan, not because of the principles but its administration and
delivery. JFW does not come across the same way. She is easy to
understand and very approachable. She has books on the subject too.

Anna

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/23/04 9:04:01 AM, ambdkf@... writes:

<< Her approach to consensual
living is really important to me and my family. Unschooling is really an
off shoot of that kind of larger philosophy.
>>

Unschooling came out of alternative education, not out of any living
philosophy.

The fact that attachment parenting as promoted by La Leche League fits in
really well with unschooling makes it work out pretty well as a "consensual
living" kind of thing, but it wasn't an offshoot of a parenting philosophy. It's
an alternative to assembly-line fact-insertion schooling.

Sandra

heather mclean

> I LOVE JFW! I went half way across the country just
> to hear her speak at
> the Rethinking Ed. Conf. and she was great!

It is interesting that we have such different
experiences in the same room... I was there, too, and
frankly, my dh and I thought she was boring. I
probably would have gotten more out of it by just
buying the audio tape, but to watch her sit and listen
to her READ for two hours was a little much. The
information she was sharing was GREAT, but it was her
presentation skills that I had difficulty with. At
least at her second session, she took a couple
questions. That was the part I liked best.

heather m
tucson

AM Brown

Sorry for the faux pas - what I was trying to say was, for us, unschooling
was a natural progression from consensual living. I have also found those
that come to unschooling from school and not from consensual living or AP
don't often 'get' that the principles related to unschooling can be applied
to all of family life. Just my observations. Anna


> Unschooling came out of alternative education, not out of any living
> philosophy.
>
> The fact that attachment parenting as promoted by La Leche League fits in
> really well with unschooling makes it work out pretty well as a
"consensual
> living" kind of thing, but it wasn't an offshoot of a parenting
philosophy. It's
> an alternative to assembly-line fact-insertion schooling.
>
> Sandra
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/23/04 10:17:54 AM, ambdkf@... writes:

<< I have also found those
that come to unschooling from school and not from consensual living or AP
don't often 'get' that the principles related to unschooling can be applied
to all of family life. >>

That's true, and there are people in the larger homeschooling community who
are cranky about that idea of living a different kind of life. There are
people from time to time who try to shush those who say learning doesn't stop with
school subjects, and that there might really be something transforming in
giving children the freedom to choose how they live.

Unschooling as a lifestyle is hooted at by some who just want unschooling as
a homeschooling style, with no other change in attitude or parenting.

Sandra

AM Brown

I guess I liked that style because I could actually hear what she was
saying instead of listening to the same person's story of the problems they
were having over and over again. That happened in a lot of sessions and
you didn't get to hear the person you were coming to hear - just complaints
and problems from people, some of whom were not even unschoolers. I liked
hearing her piece and then asking questions and discussing.

Anna

> It is interesting that we have such different
> experiences in the same room... I was there, too, and
> frankly, my dh and I thought she was boring.

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/23/04 11:40:41 AM, ambdkf@... writes:

<< I guess I liked that style because I could actually hear what she was
saying instead of listening to the same person's story of the problems they
were having over and over again. That happened in a lot of sessions and
you didn't get to hear the person you were coming to hear - just complaints
and problems from people, some of whom were not even unschoolers. >>

I sometimes dread Q&A sessions at conferences, because they take high energy
down sometimes. Not always. But I much prefer questions written down so they
can be grouped and addressed in sets and some can be bypassed for not being
interesting enough for the 40 or 100 people who would sit through the answer.

Sandra

AM Brown

> I sometimes dread Q&A sessions at conferences, because they take high
energy
> down sometimes. Not always. But I much prefer questions written down so
they
> can be grouped and addressed in sets and some can be bypassed for not
being
> interesting enough for the 40 or 100 people who would sit through the
answer.
>
> Sandra


That would have helped at this conference. We ended up hearing from one
particular person about her problem in 5 of the sessions I went to. It
was wasted time for so many.

Anna

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/23/2004 1:00:36 PM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

I sometimes dread Q&A sessions at conferences, because they take high energy

down sometimes. Not always. But I much prefer questions written down so
they
can be grouped and addressed in sets and some can be bypassed for not being
interesting enough for the 40 or 100 people who would sit through the answer.




~~~

It seems like there's always some high-need person there, as well, who can't
be satisfied with the original answer and needs to ask follow-ups and get
into specifics while wasting the time of a large number of people.

That's why I appreciated the way Marty Layne did a session once, writing
down all the questions and having everyone vote on their top three. Then she
answered/discussed them in order of which got the most votes. Wouldn't work
for all topics or all speakers, but I liked it.

Karen


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Sylvia Toyama

I also saw/heard JFW at the RE conference in May. I agree with what she had to say and enjoyed the discussion that followed, but I have to say I was a little disappointed that she read her talk. It's one thing to work with notes, but to have someone read verbatim I'm not really crazy about. Just something to know if you go to see her speak. If that kind of thing bothers you, you may have to work to separate her ideas from her presentation.

Syl

*****

I LOVE JFW! I went half way across the country just to hear her speak at the Rethinking Ed. Conf. and she was great! Her approach to consensual living is really important to me and my family.




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