Krisula Moyer

On Monday, March 1st PamSoroosh wrote:
>>when kids are generally respected and treated thoughtfully, they
usually see the sense to a request. On this list, that goes without
saying, I think. So Sandra can, typically, say, "Marty, that's loud,"
(she doesn't even have to make a request - just gently bring his
attention to it) and Marty would immediately become cognizant of his
surroundings, recognize what other people were trying to do there,
understand that his loudness was impinging on their ability to do it,
and he would CARE enough to inconvenience himself.

However, sometimes a child may not see the sense in a request. The
assumption that a child is rational is generally true, imo, but that
rationality is constrained by their knowledge and their ability to
predict consequences AND their ability to be empathetic. Although
discussing it helps them along in that development, they may simply not
have enough background knowledge, they may confuse what they hope would
be the consequences with the actual possible consequences and they
simply may not care.<<

Funny, Trayton sometimes is impatient with me b/c he sees what I think may
be a problem, disagrees with me, makes his own call and assumes it will be
fine. For example, he often walks around with a long wooden dowel he uses
as a prop or as a karate staff. And although he has on occasion bumped
someone with it (not lately) he is pretty adept at knowing within inches
that he has enough clearance. Nevertheless, It drives me crazy to see so
many "close calls" (to him these are expertly executed near misses). For my
own comfort and the safety of people and property alike, we have some rules:
Don't practice in the house, If it's in the car, it needs to ride in the
trunk area, and keep it out of the parent circle at park day. He doesn't
mean to frighten or annoy and he honestly forgets these rules at times b/c
to him, there is no problem. When he remembers, which to be fair is most of
the time these days, he's just following my request out of respect for my
feelings, not because he perceives the rule makes sense. To him we're just
all being overly cautious. He he he :)

-Krisula

carolyn

I sure could use some helpful advice here.

Last night my 13 year old daughter had a girlfriend
(12) over for the evening. She's a new friend and
we're living in a new town and right now, she's the
only friend.

This was maybe her fourth or fifth visit here, they
stayed mostly out on the deck, listening to music and
talking or so we thought. After we took the
girlfriend home, my daughter told us that a boy they
didn't know had come by (hearing their noise and
music) and they'd sneaked him up on the deck and he'd
been there all evening with them. At first, he said
he was 17, later he said he was 15. We found a beer
can last night, the girls said he drank it.

Dh and I were around all night but everytime we came
around the deck, the girls would come inside and he
would hide until we left. Mostly we were downstairs.

This is the first time anything remotely like this has
happened with my daughter (not the hiding/sneaking
part, just the boy and beer parts).

Our initial plan was just to talk to her about it.

This morning, we insisted that the girl tell her
mother what happened before she come over here again.
(She was very concerned that we would call her mother
and tell her). And that the girl's mother call me and
let me know she knew what had occurred (We've already
been lied to once about what mom giving permission for
her to come over).

As for the boy, who is "really really nice", we said
he could knock on the door and we'd meet him and take
it from there. That was before we found two more beer
cans in the yard, the girls said they drank none and
we saw no signs that they might have.

This morning the girl says she can't tell her mom,
she'll be grounded forever, never allowed to see my
daughter again (something like this happened before
with another girl and that was the outcome), she'll
never be allowed to live with her father, and her mom
has slapped her in the face.

My daughter is sure that the friendship is over (if
she doesn't tell her mom, we won't let her come over;
if she does tell her mom, she'll never be allowed to
come over again), both girls are in tears, her mom
still doesn't know. My daughter is saying now we have
to let her be friends with the boy because she has no
one else.

I'm feeling really emotionally torn and unsure what to
do next. Help?

Carolyn



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In a message dated 3/7/04 12:48:16 PM, caroln_1999@... writes:

<< I'm feeling really emotionally torn and unsure what to
do next. Help? >>

I would let it slide if it were me.

The other girl might need you and your understanding MUCH more than she needs
trouble with her parents.

Maybe the boy is nice. Maybe the boy's wonderful. Maybe he's not. But the
girls aren't hurt, and they had a little adventure without ever leaving the
house.

Next time the girl's coming over, maybe call her mom to make sure it's okay,
and chit chat with her about what time and how the girl should get home.
Don't rat her out, just have direct conversation with her mom so that the girls
aren't in a position to bend the truth.

Tell them to stay in the house instead of out on the deck.

If she meets the boy in daylight, you talk to him and tell him the beer was a
really bad idea, and leaving trash in your yard was even worse. Look him in
the eye when you say it. He'll respond one way or another, but you'll have
a better idea of his honesty/directness/character, etc. (if you're any good at
people-reading, and if he is, vice versa about you).

Over-reaction is bad in these cases.

Sandra

Joanna Wilkinson

--- In [email protected], carolyn <caroln_1999@y...>
wrote:
> I sure could use some helpful advice here.

I wouldn't make anyone tell on themselves. I might suggest they talk
about what happened with thier parent, then leave it up to them to
make the choice. The sneakiness would bother me. I would let my dd
know that the boy would have been welcome, if I knew he was there.
The beer would not have been. I would be disappointed if my dd felt
a need to be sneaky. Not in her, but in me. I'm going on the
assumtion that my dd would know that I would trust her in a situation
like that, and she would let her friends know that I'm cool with
visitors.
I would also expect her to let anyone know that the beer wasn't okay,
and to get rid of it if they wanted to hang out.
If I found out that my assumption was wrong and my dd felt a need to
be sneaky, I would be really suprised and wonder where the
communication break down happened.
She knows that there is no punishment, that there is discussion
instead, if things are confusing or mistakes are made.



> This is the first time anything remotely like this has
> happened with my daughter (not the hiding/sneaking
> part, just the boy and beer parts).>>

Why did she fess up? Was it after you found the beer can, or did she
trust you with something that made her feel uncomfortable?
Why has she felt a need to hide and sneak in the past?


>
> Our initial plan was just to talk to her about it. >>

Good plan.


>
> This morning, we insisted that the girl tell her
> mother what happened before she come over here again. >>

Bad plan.


> (She was very concerned that we would call her mother
> and tell her). And that the girl's mother call me and
> let me know she knew what had occurred (We've already
> been lied to once about what mom giving permission for
> her to come over).

I would talk to the girl and let her know she is welcome to come
over, but if you continue to be lied to, it puts you in a position of
liability and that's not cool.

>
> As for the boy, who is "really really nice", we said
> he could knock on the door and we'd meet him and take
> it from there. That was before we found two more beer
> cans in the yard, the girls said they drank none and
> we saw no signs that they might have.
>

I'd still want to meet the boy. I'd let him know he could hang out,
but the beer wasn't allowed to come with him. You run the risk of
more sneaking if you try to forbid contact.

> This morning the girl says she can't tell her mom,
> she'll be grounded forever, never allowed to see my
> daughter again (something like this happened before
> with another girl and that was the outcome), she'll
> never be allowed to live with her father, and her mom
> has slapped her in the face. >>

I'd say I changed my mind about having to tell her mother, and that I
understood that they didn't know I would have been okay with a boy
visitor and they made a mistake with allowing him to drink beer
there. I would also ask that she not be sneaky and not encourage my
dd to be sneaky either or I would have a big problem with her coming
to our house.

>
> My daughter is sure that the friendship is over (if
> she doesn't tell her mom, we won't let her come over;
> if she does tell her mom, she'll never be allowed to
> come over again), both girls are in tears, her mom
> still doesn't know. My daughter is saying now we have
> to let her be friends with the boy because she has no
> one else.>>

I think this is also a sign that you need to try to find some more
opportunities for her to meet more people and not feel desperate to
take anything that comes along.
>


I hope I helped a little. :-)

Joanna

J. Stauffer

<<<<<I'm feeling really emotionally torn and unsure what to
> do next. Help?>>>>>

I think the first question is why does your daughter have a history of
sneaking and lying to you? The answer to that would help determine the next
step, I think.

Julie S.

----- Original Message -----
From: "carolyn" <caroln_1999@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 1:46 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] some words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated


> I sure could use some helpful advice here.
>
> Last night my 13 year old daughter had a girlfriend
> (12) over for the evening. She's a new friend and
> we're living in a new town and right now, she's the
> only friend.
>
> This was maybe her fourth or fifth visit here, they
> stayed mostly out on the deck, listening to music and
> talking or so we thought. After we took the
> girlfriend home, my daughter told us that a boy they
> didn't know had come by (hearing their noise and
> music) and they'd sneaked him up on the deck and he'd
> been there all evening with them. At first, he said
> he was 17, later he said he was 15. We found a beer
> can last night, the girls said he drank it.
>
> Dh and I were around all night but everytime we came
> around the deck, the girls would come inside and he
> would hide until we left. Mostly we were downstairs.
>
> This is the first time anything remotely like this has
> happened with my daughter (not the hiding/sneaking
> part, just the boy and beer parts).
>
> Our initial plan was just to talk to her about it.
>
> This morning, we insisted that the girl tell her
> mother what happened before she come over here again.
> (She was very concerned that we would call her mother
> and tell her). And that the girl's mother call me and
> let me know she knew what had occurred (We've already
> been lied to once about what mom giving permission for
> her to come over).
>
> As for the boy, who is "really really nice", we said
> he could knock on the door and we'd meet him and take
> it from there. That was before we found two more beer
> cans in the yard, the girls said they drank none and
> we saw no signs that they might have.
>
> This morning the girl says she can't tell her mom,
> she'll be grounded forever, never allowed to see my
> daughter again (something like this happened before
> with another girl and that was the outcome), she'll
> never be allowed to live with her father, and her mom
> has slapped her in the face.
>
> My daughter is sure that the friendship is over (if
> she doesn't tell her mom, we won't let her come over;
> if she does tell her mom, she'll never be allowed to
> come over again), both girls are in tears, her mom
> still doesn't know. My daughter is saying now we have
> to let her be friends with the boy because she has no
> one else.
>
> I'm feeling really emotionally torn and unsure what to
> do next. Help?
>
> Carolyn
>
>
>
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