Thoughts about summer camp?
veejie72
Hi.
I was thinking that it might be nice for DD (when she's old enough) to go to some
kind of day camp or sleepaway summer camp. Do you think it's best to just wait and
see if she asks to go? Or is there a special camp just for unschoolers?
I don't know why I feel so strongly that camp is a good idea. Maybe because they have
equipment and activities that I wouldn't have access to (water skiing, ceramics, theater
productions, canoe trips, horseback riding, etc.) or maybe because I feel it's healthy
for kids to be away from their parents sometimes?
She is so kinetic, asking her to sit still in school all day would just crush her spirit, I
know it. At camp she'd get to do tennis and volleyball and soccer and softball etc.
Thoughts?
-Vijay
I was thinking that it might be nice for DD (when she's old enough) to go to some
kind of day camp or sleepaway summer camp. Do you think it's best to just wait and
see if she asks to go? Or is there a special camp just for unschoolers?
I don't know why I feel so strongly that camp is a good idea. Maybe because they have
equipment and activities that I wouldn't have access to (water skiing, ceramics, theater
productions, canoe trips, horseback riding, etc.) or maybe because I feel it's healthy
for kids to be away from their parents sometimes?
She is so kinetic, asking her to sit still in school all day would just crush her spirit, I
know it. At camp she'd get to do tennis and volleyball and soccer and softball etc.
Thoughts?
-Vijay
[email protected]
On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:40:37 -0000 "veejie72" <berryhead@...>
writes:
Dar
writes:
> Or is there a special camp just forwww.nbtsc.org
> unschoolers?
Dar
joylyn
This looks like a neat place to go.
Anyone's children ever attend this?
joylyn
freeform@... wrote:
Anyone's children ever attend this?
joylyn
freeform@... wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:40:37 -0000 "veejie72" <berryhead@...>
> writes:
> > Or is there a special camp just for
> > unschoolers?
>
> www.nbtsc.org
>
> Dar
>
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[email protected]
Pretty much all the teens you met up here, Joylyn :)
Rain says she wants to go in a year or two...
Dar
On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 13:49:03 -0800 joylyn <joylyn@...> writes:
Rain says she wants to go in a year or two...
Dar
On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 13:49:03 -0800 joylyn <joylyn@...> writes:
> This looks like a neat place to go.------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Anyone's children ever attend this?
>
> joylyn
>
> freeform@... wrote:
>
> >
> > On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:40:37 -0000 "veejie72"
> <berryhead@...>
> > writes:
> > > Or is there a special camp just for
> > > unschoolers?
> >
> > www.nbtsc.org
> >
> > Dar
> >
> >
>
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > [email protected]
> >
> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
> >
> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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>
Norma
--- In [email protected], joylyn <joylyn@e...> wrote:
My daughter went to NBTSC at 15 and did not like it at all. And
there are no special facilities whatsoever, no special anything.
Just lots of rain and cold and terrible food, and some very
unpleasant experiences. She lost weight and as a 98# athlete she did
not need to lose an ounce. She found it to be basically a
contemporary unschoolers' Lord of the Flies. Not that I advocate
lots of supervision, but there were things happening, life-
endangering things in some cases, that needed much better supervision
and follow-up, IMHO. Some of the other things that happened, though
not at all life-threatening, could have used some adult intervention;
things like physical coercion and racial slurs, for example.
But it probably depends on your child. This past summer, at 16, my
daughter went to a pre-college two week course instead, lived on
campus with many other teens and college students including about 20%
homeschooled, took raku and pit-firing ceramics. She loved it!
Loved the whole thing. The food, the other kids (14-18), the staff,
the campus, the un-airconditioned dorms, the huge beautiful campus,
and she especially liked being treated like any other coed. She
would go back there in a minute, thinks she wants to go to college
there.
And she has attended other good camps, too, with 4-H, with a local
homeschool group, and several church teen group camping experiences
(Unitarian). All were good experiences for her. But NBTSC was not.
Please note that she attended the east coast camp in W. Virginia. We
don't know anything about the west coast version.
I learned that the NBTSC fan club is a very tight-knit cheering
section, and is not at all nice to anyone whose child doesn't adore
the experience. They formally shun those who question what goes on
at these camps and will prohibit any detractor from being on their
list. All they want you to hear are the good reports, and if anyone
disagrees they are e-excommunicated. You call that freedom? Not
me. But the rhetoric you will get regarding the kids is all about
freedom, supposedly. I would be very cautious with any group that
operates in this manner. Real freedom means that all sides, good and
bad, are available to those who inquire.
From the teens' list my daughter learned that someone was spreading
rumors that her mother (me) was suing NBTSC camp and Grace
Llewellyn. Never crossed my mind. But there are others who had much
better reason to consider suing. Perhaps they are, or did. I simply
will not recommend it. Personally I feel that a great family or
homeschool or church teen trek to some well-chosen wilderness area,
backpacking in and enjoying the beauty and the fun of exploring one's
survival skills, would be a much better investment of time and money.
Norma
> This looks like a neat place to go.Joylyn:
>
> Anyone's children ever attend this?
>
> joylyn
My daughter went to NBTSC at 15 and did not like it at all. And
there are no special facilities whatsoever, no special anything.
Just lots of rain and cold and terrible food, and some very
unpleasant experiences. She lost weight and as a 98# athlete she did
not need to lose an ounce. She found it to be basically a
contemporary unschoolers' Lord of the Flies. Not that I advocate
lots of supervision, but there were things happening, life-
endangering things in some cases, that needed much better supervision
and follow-up, IMHO. Some of the other things that happened, though
not at all life-threatening, could have used some adult intervention;
things like physical coercion and racial slurs, for example.
But it probably depends on your child. This past summer, at 16, my
daughter went to a pre-college two week course instead, lived on
campus with many other teens and college students including about 20%
homeschooled, took raku and pit-firing ceramics. She loved it!
Loved the whole thing. The food, the other kids (14-18), the staff,
the campus, the un-airconditioned dorms, the huge beautiful campus,
and she especially liked being treated like any other coed. She
would go back there in a minute, thinks she wants to go to college
there.
And she has attended other good camps, too, with 4-H, with a local
homeschool group, and several church teen group camping experiences
(Unitarian). All were good experiences for her. But NBTSC was not.
Please note that she attended the east coast camp in W. Virginia. We
don't know anything about the west coast version.
I learned that the NBTSC fan club is a very tight-knit cheering
section, and is not at all nice to anyone whose child doesn't adore
the experience. They formally shun those who question what goes on
at these camps and will prohibit any detractor from being on their
list. All they want you to hear are the good reports, and if anyone
disagrees they are e-excommunicated. You call that freedom? Not
me. But the rhetoric you will get regarding the kids is all about
freedom, supposedly. I would be very cautious with any group that
operates in this manner. Real freedom means that all sides, good and
bad, are available to those who inquire.
From the teens' list my daughter learned that someone was spreading
rumors that her mother (me) was suing NBTSC camp and Grace
Llewellyn. Never crossed my mind. But there are others who had much
better reason to consider suing. Perhaps they are, or did. I simply
will not recommend it. Personally I feel that a great family or
homeschool or church teen trek to some well-chosen wilderness area,
backpacking in and enjoying the beauty and the fun of exploring one's
survival skills, would be a much better investment of time and money.
Norma
joylyn
Thanks, Norma, for being honest. I appreciate that.
My oldest is only 8, so this is not an issue at this time, I just was
impressed with the content on the web.
I was also thinking that a UU camp might also be a good one... at least
the one where they also have homeschool family camp. Lexie wants to
attend their youth camp this summer, and I think I'll let her go. Of
course, it's more supervised, cause the kids are 8-12, I think. They
also have a teen one.
Joylyn
Norma wrote:
My oldest is only 8, so this is not an issue at this time, I just was
impressed with the content on the web.
I was also thinking that a UU camp might also be a good one... at least
the one where they also have homeschool family camp. Lexie wants to
attend their youth camp this summer, and I think I'll let her go. Of
course, it's more supervised, cause the kids are 8-12, I think. They
also have a teen one.
Joylyn
Norma wrote:
> --- In [email protected], joylyn <joylyn@e...> wrote:[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > This looks like a neat place to go.
> >
> > Anyone's children ever attend this?
> >
> > joylyn
>
> Joylyn:
>
> My daughter went to NBTSC at 15 and did not like it at all. And
> there are no special facilities whatsoever, no special anything.
> Just lots of rain and cold and terrible food, and some very
> unpleasant experiences. She lost weight and as a 98# athlete she did
> not need to lose an ounce. She found it to be basically a
> contemporary unschoolers' Lord of the Flies. Not that I advocate
> lots of supervision, but there were things happening, life-
> endangering things in some cases, that needed much better supervision
> and follow-up, IMHO. Some of the other things that happened, though
> not at all life-threatening, could have used some adult intervention;
> things like physical coercion and racial slurs, for example.
>
> But it probably depends on your child. This past summer, at 16, my
> daughter went to a pre-college two week course instead, lived on
> campus with many other teens and college students including about 20%
> homeschooled, took raku and pit-firing ceramics. She loved it!
> Loved the whole thing. The food, the other kids (14-18), the staff,
> the campus, the un-airconditioned dorms, the huge beautiful campus,
> and she especially liked being treated like any other coed. She
> would go back there in a minute, thinks she wants to go to college
> there.
>
> And she has attended other good camps, too, with 4-H, with a local
> homeschool group, and several church teen group camping experiences
> (Unitarian). All were good experiences for her. But NBTSC was not.
> Please note that she attended the east coast camp in W. Virginia. We
> don't know anything about the west coast version.
>
> I learned that the NBTSC fan club is a very tight-knit cheering
> section, and is not at all nice to anyone whose child doesn't adore
> the experience. They formally shun those who question what goes on
> at these camps and will prohibit any detractor from being on their
> list. All they want you to hear are the good reports, and if anyone
> disagrees they are e-excommunicated. You call that freedom? Not
> me. But the rhetoric you will get regarding the kids is all about
> freedom, supposedly. I would be very cautious with any group that
> operates in this manner. Real freedom means that all sides, good and
> bad, are available to those who inquire.
>
> >From the teens' list my daughter learned that someone was spreading
> rumors that her mother (me) was suing NBTSC camp and Grace
> Llewellyn. Never crossed my mind. But there are others who had much
> better reason to consider suing. Perhaps they are, or did. I simply
> will not recommend it. Personally I feel that a great family or
> homeschool or church teen trek to some well-chosen wilderness area,
> backpacking in and enjoying the beauty and the fun of exploring one's
> survival skills, would be a much better investment of time and money.
>
> Norma
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
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> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
Norma
--- In [email protected], joylyn <joylyn@e...> wrote:
One of the best UU camps, I am told, is the one up in New England. I
can't remember the name of it right now, but it is on the UU list.
In our locale the teens do a group camp out every year and I went
along this year as an adult volunteer. That basically meant just
watching and enjoying the teens interacting. It was a great
experience! The teens stayed up all night each night, piled around
the campfire. And there were no problems whatsoever. Different
parents trucked food in for each meal, and the food was awesome. The
teens spent one whole day at an outdoor high-ropes course and it was
amazing to watch them face these challenges and conquer their fears.
I would highly recommend this type of experience for anyone. From
one year to the next I am told that each teen pushes his or her
envelope a little further, conquers a few more fears, takes a few
more risks. My daughter loved it and can't wait to go again this
year. And, for those who are not UU, our teen groups welcomes any
others who wanted to go along. And the price was far better than
NBTSC, with great food to boot.
Norma
> Thanks, Norma, for being honest. I appreciate that.was
>
> My oldest is only 8, so this is not an issue at this time, I just
> impressed with the content on the web.least
>
> I was also thinking that a UU camp might also be a good one... at
> the one where they also have homeschool family camp. Lexie wantsto
> attend their youth camp this summer, and I think I'll let her go.Of
> course, it's more supervised, cause the kids are 8-12, I think.They
> also have a teen one.Joylyn:
>
> Joylyn
One of the best UU camps, I am told, is the one up in New England. I
can't remember the name of it right now, but it is on the UU list.
In our locale the teens do a group camp out every year and I went
along this year as an adult volunteer. That basically meant just
watching and enjoying the teens interacting. It was a great
experience! The teens stayed up all night each night, piled around
the campfire. And there were no problems whatsoever. Different
parents trucked food in for each meal, and the food was awesome. The
teens spent one whole day at an outdoor high-ropes course and it was
amazing to watch them face these challenges and conquer their fears.
I would highly recommend this type of experience for anyone. From
one year to the next I am told that each teen pushes his or her
envelope a little further, conquers a few more fears, takes a few
more risks. My daughter loved it and can't wait to go again this
year. And, for those who are not UU, our teen groups welcomes any
others who wanted to go along. And the price was far better than
NBTSC, with great food to boot.
Norma
joylyn
That does sound like a great camp. Sadly, we are in california.
Our local UU camp is absolutely wonderful. The food is great too. :-)
Joylyn
Norma wrote:
Our local UU camp is absolutely wonderful. The food is great too. :-)
Joylyn
Norma wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Joylyn:
>
> One of the best UU camps, I am told, is the one up in New England. I
> can't remember the name of it right now, but it is on the UU list.
> In our locale the teens do a group camp out every year and I went
> along this year as an adult volunteer. That basically meant just
> watching and enjoying the teens interacting. It was a great
> experience! The teens stayed up all night each night, piled around
> the campfire. And there were no problems whatsoever. Different
> parents trucked food in for each meal, and the food was awesome. The
> teens spent one whole day at an outdoor high-ropes course and it was
> amazing to watch them face these challenges and conquer their fears.
> I would highly recommend this type of experience for anyone. From
> one year to the next I am told that each teen pushes his or her
> envelope a little further, conquers a few more fears, takes a few
> more risks. My daughter loved it and can't wait to go again this
> year. And, for those who are not UU, our teen groups welcomes any
> others who wanted to go along. And the price was far better than
> NBTSC, with great food to boot.
>
> Norma
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
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>
>
Wife2Vegman
Lots of day camps become more like day school,
unfortunately, with very little freedom, moving from
activity to activity at the sound of a whistle or
bell, lots of sitting waiting for a turn at something.
You might consider finding one that is focused around
one of her interests, like art camp, or horse back
riding, or nature, that is only 1/2 day to begin with.
I let my daughter go to overnight camp last summer at
13.5, and I missed her terribly. I don't think I
could have done it when she was 8. LOL!
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
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unfortunately, with very little freedom, moving from
activity to activity at the sound of a whistle or
bell, lots of sitting waiting for a turn at something.
You might consider finding one that is focused around
one of her interests, like art camp, or horse back
riding, or nature, that is only 1/2 day to begin with.
I let my daughter go to overnight camp last summer at
13.5, and I missed her terribly. I don't think I
could have done it when she was 8. LOL!
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
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joylyn
I should say that the person who runs the camp for the kids is a good
friend of mine, and very well known to Lexie. It's not very far away,
Lexie has spent a great deal of time at the camp, and the camp is such
that if there was a problem, I would be called immediately. Lexie will
be nine at the time of the camp, and it may be that I will be there
running some aspect of the camp. :0)
joylyn
Wife2Vegman wrote:
friend of mine, and very well known to Lexie. It's not very far away,
Lexie has spent a great deal of time at the camp, and the camp is such
that if there was a problem, I would be called immediately. Lexie will
be nine at the time of the camp, and it may be that I will be there
running some aspect of the camp. :0)
joylyn
Wife2Vegman wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Lots of day camps become more like day school,
> unfortunately, with very little freedom, moving from
> activity to activity at the sound of a whistle or
> bell, lots of sitting waiting for a turn at something.
>
> You might consider finding one that is focused around
> one of her interests, like art camp, or horse back
> riding, or nature, that is only 1/2 day to begin with.
>
> I let my daughter go to overnight camp last summer at
> 13.5, and I missed her terribly. I don't think I
> could have done it when she was 8. LOL!
>
>
>
>
> =====
> --Susan in VA
> WifetoVegman
>
> What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for
> children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school
> than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
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> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
Wife2Vegman
--- joylyn <joylyn@...> wrote:
(it was only 1 week long). It was ME that was
homesick for her. LOL!
Some camps are really great, and actually, the novelty
of doing things on a schedule that rotated with a bell
or whistle is amusing and fun to kids who don't have
to do it all year round.
Finding the right camp can be tricky, but sometimes
having a friend who is also going can help, too.
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
> I should say that the person who runs the camp forI know, my daughter didn't have any trouble at camp
> the kids is a good
> friend of mine, and very well known to Lexie. It's
> not very far away,
> Lexie has spent a great deal of time at the camp,
> and the camp is such
> that if there was a problem, I would be called
> immediately. Lexie will
> be nine at the time of the camp, and it may be that
> I will be there
> running some aspect of the camp. :0)
>
> joylyn
>
(it was only 1 week long). It was ME that was
homesick for her. LOL!
Some camps are really great, and actually, the novelty
of doing things on a schedule that rotated with a bell
or whistle is amusing and fun to kids who don't have
to do it all year round.
Finding the right camp can be tricky, but sometimes
having a friend who is also going can help, too.
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
joylyn
You are right about the friend thing. Lexie's best friend is Greek
Orthodox, her dad is a priest. Lexie wants to go with Hibi to their
youth summer camp, and I would more than allow it, even given the fairly
strong religious componet of the camp. It is very structured, with
almost no free time (because in their experience, the schooled kids who
usually go can't handle any time that is not structured, they get into
trouble), but Lexie really wants to go. btw, Hibi is pretty much
unschooled as well.
Joylyn
Wife2Vegman wrote:
Orthodox, her dad is a priest. Lexie wants to go with Hibi to their
youth summer camp, and I would more than allow it, even given the fairly
strong religious componet of the camp. It is very structured, with
almost no free time (because in their experience, the schooled kids who
usually go can't handle any time that is not structured, they get into
trouble), but Lexie really wants to go. btw, Hibi is pretty much
unschooled as well.
Joylyn
Wife2Vegman wrote:
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> --- joylyn <joylyn@...> wrote:
> > I should say that the person who runs the camp for
> > the kids is a good
> > friend of mine, and very well known to Lexie. It's
> > not very far away,
> > Lexie has spent a great deal of time at the camp,
> > and the camp is such
> > that if there was a problem, I would be called
> > immediately. Lexie will
> > be nine at the time of the camp, and it may be that
> > I will be there
> > running some aspect of the camp. :0)
> >
> > joylyn
> >
>
>
> I know, my daughter didn't have any trouble at camp
> (it was only 1 week long). It was ME that was
> homesick for her. LOL!
>
> Some camps are really great, and actually, the novelty
> of doing things on a schedule that rotated with a bell
> or whistle is amusing and fun to kids who don't have
> to do it all year round.
>
> Finding the right camp can be tricky, but sometimes
> having a friend who is also going can help, too.
>
>
>
> =====
> --Susan in VA
> WifetoVegman
>
> What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for
> children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school
> than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe>
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> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
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>
>
Norma
--- In [email protected], joylyn <joylyn@e...> wrote:
Yes, I've heard good things about the California UU camp, too. I
also have to say that my child has decided that she really likes
being in a mixed group, not strictly home educators, and not just
unschoolers. This is the real world, all different kinds of people,
and she feels that this kind of experience, whether it's camping or
anything else, is better for her. There is something very insular
and also very restricted in the predominantly white, predominantly
upper middle class unschooling community. She actually finds the UU
kids to be much more open-minded, and definitely more inclusive and
more integrated.
Yes, I know that all unschoolers are not from a high income strata,
because we aren't. But she found NBTSC to be very cliquish, more so
than most any other experience she has had. And part of that is
perhaps because many of these kids have been attending for years
(kids who can afford that, hence a certain income bracket, which is
separative to begin with) and stick with their own group of friends.
Wheras she did not find this at all at Earlham College's two-week
summer Explore-A-College program, a very homeschool friendly program,
by the way.
If anyone plans to go to NBTSC my daughter and I both recommend
taking along a goodly stash of food, just in case. Almost all of the
kids in her cabin who had attended camp before had brought boxes and
bags of their own food. She felt we had been lied to about the
food. We were told that it would be good healthy predominantly
vegetarian food. It wasn't. My daughter has chosen all her life to
be a lacto-ovo vegetarian and she found very little that was
acceptable to eat at the NBTSC that she attended. Plus she also
found that a certain group of campers hoarded all the good food, took
it back to their cabins for themselves. With no adult intervention
she went through a week with very little sustenance to ward off the
damp and cold.
On the other hand she attended a Swedenborgian church camp with some
friends, like what your daughter is considering doing, and loved it
but said there were more Christian elements to deal with than she
liked. But she still had a very good time, made good friends. 4-H
camp, which in most parts of the country anyone can attend, even if
they are not in 4-H, was more structured, too, but she enjoyed it,
had her first slow dancing (and her first crush) there with a very
nice boy, at 12. She also attended a 4-H art day-camp in a nearby
county one summer when she was even younger (11) and loved it.
So, yes, consider your child and her propensities, and choose what
might work best for her. As for getting it "straight from the
horse's mouth" on the NBTSC kids' list, they, too, do not want anyone
to say anything negative about "their" camp, and can be just as
malicious and vindictive as some of the very censoring parents. I
just know that we were far from the only folks who attended camp in
W. Virginia who were unhappy with this specific NBTSC session. All
who were unhappy have been censored or driven from the adult and
kids' NBTSC lists. Doesn't give anyone a very realistic picture.
And when I compared my daughter's experience at two other camps the
following summer, well, they were so much better, she enjoyed them so
much more. And she felt she came away with a much more valuable life
experience.
As for making friends, she is involved in so many outside activities
that she has plenty of opportunities to make friends, from
homeschoolers, to unschoolers, to everyone else, and all ages, too.
She is a volunteer at our local museum center (history and science
and children's musuems), a historical interpreter at our local
historical village, involved in many community service projects,
started her own 4-H club, started her own homeschool Junior Statesman
Foundation group (grades 9-12), is a competitive figure skater (9
years), and is a ceramicist who has been taking ceramics (pottery)
and other art courses from a local art foundation for six years, is
now the only teen in an adult ceramics center/studio, working on
perfecting her centering and throwing skills.
She also works part-time at her local ice rink and at our local
library. She has adult coaches with whom she is close and a bunch of
really great librarians with whom she enjoys working very much. And
she has her UU teen friends, as well as the great group of adults
there, lots of opportunities to interact socially. Her current
boy/friend is someone she met at a party through other friends, the
usual way, and someone equally artsy (a jazz musician) who attends
one of the local performing arts public schools. Next weekend she
will be attending her third winter formal dance at a local high
school, her fifth formal dance since she was 13. Just wanted to
establish that we are not talking about someone who is in any way
socially isolated or who has limited social skills.
Pick whatever camps or experiences you choose based on your
daughter's interests and know that how much you spend, or how reknown
the camp's founder is (because she wrote a book about other people's
unschooling experiences) does not make a camp better than some other
experience. I guess I have been most disappointed in the way the
parents acted when I voiced my complaints about this camp. You'd
have thought I was attacking them personally when I expressed my
unhappiness with some of the things my daughter experienced at
NBTSC. Rather than saying, wow, they would really want to see that
kind of thing not happen and would work to help get it changed, they
just circled the wagons, attacked me, then excluded me from their
list. NBTSC, love it, or leave it! No one offered to set up a
parents' committee to try to see that these types of things would not
happen again or find solutions to these problems. And I think
physical coercion, racial slurs and dealing with other suicidal teens
is much more serious than just being cold all the time and not having
enough to eat for a week. That's really all I have to say.
Norma
> That does sound like a great camp. Sadly, we are in california.too. :-)
>
> Our local UU camp is absolutely wonderful. The food is great
>Joylyn:
> Joylyn
Yes, I've heard good things about the California UU camp, too. I
also have to say that my child has decided that she really likes
being in a mixed group, not strictly home educators, and not just
unschoolers. This is the real world, all different kinds of people,
and she feels that this kind of experience, whether it's camping or
anything else, is better for her. There is something very insular
and also very restricted in the predominantly white, predominantly
upper middle class unschooling community. She actually finds the UU
kids to be much more open-minded, and definitely more inclusive and
more integrated.
Yes, I know that all unschoolers are not from a high income strata,
because we aren't. But she found NBTSC to be very cliquish, more so
than most any other experience she has had. And part of that is
perhaps because many of these kids have been attending for years
(kids who can afford that, hence a certain income bracket, which is
separative to begin with) and stick with their own group of friends.
Wheras she did not find this at all at Earlham College's two-week
summer Explore-A-College program, a very homeschool friendly program,
by the way.
If anyone plans to go to NBTSC my daughter and I both recommend
taking along a goodly stash of food, just in case. Almost all of the
kids in her cabin who had attended camp before had brought boxes and
bags of their own food. She felt we had been lied to about the
food. We were told that it would be good healthy predominantly
vegetarian food. It wasn't. My daughter has chosen all her life to
be a lacto-ovo vegetarian and she found very little that was
acceptable to eat at the NBTSC that she attended. Plus she also
found that a certain group of campers hoarded all the good food, took
it back to their cabins for themselves. With no adult intervention
she went through a week with very little sustenance to ward off the
damp and cold.
On the other hand she attended a Swedenborgian church camp with some
friends, like what your daughter is considering doing, and loved it
but said there were more Christian elements to deal with than she
liked. But she still had a very good time, made good friends. 4-H
camp, which in most parts of the country anyone can attend, even if
they are not in 4-H, was more structured, too, but she enjoyed it,
had her first slow dancing (and her first crush) there with a very
nice boy, at 12. She also attended a 4-H art day-camp in a nearby
county one summer when she was even younger (11) and loved it.
So, yes, consider your child and her propensities, and choose what
might work best for her. As for getting it "straight from the
horse's mouth" on the NBTSC kids' list, they, too, do not want anyone
to say anything negative about "their" camp, and can be just as
malicious and vindictive as some of the very censoring parents. I
just know that we were far from the only folks who attended camp in
W. Virginia who were unhappy with this specific NBTSC session. All
who were unhappy have been censored or driven from the adult and
kids' NBTSC lists. Doesn't give anyone a very realistic picture.
And when I compared my daughter's experience at two other camps the
following summer, well, they were so much better, she enjoyed them so
much more. And she felt she came away with a much more valuable life
experience.
As for making friends, she is involved in so many outside activities
that she has plenty of opportunities to make friends, from
homeschoolers, to unschoolers, to everyone else, and all ages, too.
She is a volunteer at our local museum center (history and science
and children's musuems), a historical interpreter at our local
historical village, involved in many community service projects,
started her own 4-H club, started her own homeschool Junior Statesman
Foundation group (grades 9-12), is a competitive figure skater (9
years), and is a ceramicist who has been taking ceramics (pottery)
and other art courses from a local art foundation for six years, is
now the only teen in an adult ceramics center/studio, working on
perfecting her centering and throwing skills.
She also works part-time at her local ice rink and at our local
library. She has adult coaches with whom she is close and a bunch of
really great librarians with whom she enjoys working very much. And
she has her UU teen friends, as well as the great group of adults
there, lots of opportunities to interact socially. Her current
boy/friend is someone she met at a party through other friends, the
usual way, and someone equally artsy (a jazz musician) who attends
one of the local performing arts public schools. Next weekend she
will be attending her third winter formal dance at a local high
school, her fifth formal dance since she was 13. Just wanted to
establish that we are not talking about someone who is in any way
socially isolated or who has limited social skills.
Pick whatever camps or experiences you choose based on your
daughter's interests and know that how much you spend, or how reknown
the camp's founder is (because she wrote a book about other people's
unschooling experiences) does not make a camp better than some other
experience. I guess I have been most disappointed in the way the
parents acted when I voiced my complaints about this camp. You'd
have thought I was attacking them personally when I expressed my
unhappiness with some of the things my daughter experienced at
NBTSC. Rather than saying, wow, they would really want to see that
kind of thing not happen and would work to help get it changed, they
just circled the wagons, attacked me, then excluded me from their
list. NBTSC, love it, or leave it! No one offered to set up a
parents' committee to try to see that these types of things would not
happen again or find solutions to these problems. And I think
physical coercion, racial slurs and dealing with other suicidal teens
is much more serious than just being cold all the time and not having
enough to eat for a week. That's really all I have to say.
Norma