unlimited access to media
M. Dalrymple-Lepore
Hi all--
I've been watching the conversations about TV and video games and
Barbie sheets and I finally figured out what I wanted to say. I think.
I do attempt to limit what my son sees. At least when we are at home--
when he visits his cousin 2 nights a week he has full access to all the
processed food and cartoon network he wants. To my delight, he doesn't
want much.
I limit which channels on TV because of all the advertising-- I REALLY
HATE advertising. To me, it is a billion dollar industry whose sole
goal is to brainwash us into handing over our money. I knew this and
thought about this ALOT when I worked in the industry at 22-- and 8
years later I am still astounded at how effectively ads manipulate me.
Even as I am watching and talking to myself about the manipulation,
they are working on me. It's scary to me. I know it sounds fanatical,
but it really is scary to me.
And today I came across this link: <
http://homepage.mac.com/gapodaca/digital/bikini/index.html >. It's
essentially an example of exactly how they touch up the pictures in the
magazines. I was surprised. I knew they were touched up-- but I
didn't realize that even her hands were touched up, that her belly
button was touched up. There are other pictures in this guys site and
even the shoe ads are fake. Shoes!
And I should mention that I do not and have never come anywhere close
to fitting our society's image of beauty. So maybe that makes me extra
sensitive. But the idea that my child would come to believe that
somewhere there are women who really look like that-- I know they are
fake but deep in my heart there is still a part of me that thinks I
should look like that when I wake up in the morning. I can't tell you
how much it bothers me to know in my head that it's not reality, and
yet still find myself yearning to have what's in those ads-- a house
without dust, a spouse without pores (!) or lumpy sweaters, shoes that
have no wrinkles . . . stupid stuff. I know it's stupid stuff, and
that knowledge doesn't seem to matter.
And the Barbie sheets sort of goes along with that-- although he has
blue's clues sheets on the bed right now, lol. I see the vast array of
character-based stuff for kids and it bothers me to realize that they
are crappy products. On a base level, they are made of inferior
materials and will feel crappy to your skin within one washing-- the
company who made them didn't care about the quality of the sheets.
They only cared about how they could get one more parent to hand over
some cash.
The deal is, it's capitalism. And I'm coming to hate capitalism more
everyday. And maybe it's because I get depressed in winter, or maybe
the hormones I'm on trying to get pregnant, or maybe it's my feelings
over the current political situation . . . but I really hate the
society I am raising my child in.
I've heard an argument that they will have to live in it, they might
as well get used to it-- that just reminds me of my mother, saying
"he's going to spend the rest of his life behind a desk, he may as well
start practicing now [by going to school]". Still, living in a bubble
doesn't make sense, either. I guess right now my plan is to think very
carefully about the edges of the bubble, and make sure to expand it
regularly. But really, I don't feel at peace with or without the
bubble.
Thanks,
Melanie
____________________________________
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral,
begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing
evil,
it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you
cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you
murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely
increases hate...
Returning violence for hate multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness
to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness.
Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that."
Martin Luther King, Jr.
_________________________________________
My opinion is neither copyrighted nor trademarked, and
it's price competitive. If you like, I'll trade for
one of yours.
I've been watching the conversations about TV and video games and
Barbie sheets and I finally figured out what I wanted to say. I think.
I do attempt to limit what my son sees. At least when we are at home--
when he visits his cousin 2 nights a week he has full access to all the
processed food and cartoon network he wants. To my delight, he doesn't
want much.
I limit which channels on TV because of all the advertising-- I REALLY
HATE advertising. To me, it is a billion dollar industry whose sole
goal is to brainwash us into handing over our money. I knew this and
thought about this ALOT when I worked in the industry at 22-- and 8
years later I am still astounded at how effectively ads manipulate me.
Even as I am watching and talking to myself about the manipulation,
they are working on me. It's scary to me. I know it sounds fanatical,
but it really is scary to me.
And today I came across this link: <
http://homepage.mac.com/gapodaca/digital/bikini/index.html >. It's
essentially an example of exactly how they touch up the pictures in the
magazines. I was surprised. I knew they were touched up-- but I
didn't realize that even her hands were touched up, that her belly
button was touched up. There are other pictures in this guys site and
even the shoe ads are fake. Shoes!
And I should mention that I do not and have never come anywhere close
to fitting our society's image of beauty. So maybe that makes me extra
sensitive. But the idea that my child would come to believe that
somewhere there are women who really look like that-- I know they are
fake but deep in my heart there is still a part of me that thinks I
should look like that when I wake up in the morning. I can't tell you
how much it bothers me to know in my head that it's not reality, and
yet still find myself yearning to have what's in those ads-- a house
without dust, a spouse without pores (!) or lumpy sweaters, shoes that
have no wrinkles . . . stupid stuff. I know it's stupid stuff, and
that knowledge doesn't seem to matter.
And the Barbie sheets sort of goes along with that-- although he has
blue's clues sheets on the bed right now, lol. I see the vast array of
character-based stuff for kids and it bothers me to realize that they
are crappy products. On a base level, they are made of inferior
materials and will feel crappy to your skin within one washing-- the
company who made them didn't care about the quality of the sheets.
They only cared about how they could get one more parent to hand over
some cash.
The deal is, it's capitalism. And I'm coming to hate capitalism more
everyday. And maybe it's because I get depressed in winter, or maybe
the hormones I'm on trying to get pregnant, or maybe it's my feelings
over the current political situation . . . but I really hate the
society I am raising my child in.
I've heard an argument that they will have to live in it, they might
as well get used to it-- that just reminds me of my mother, saying
"he's going to spend the rest of his life behind a desk, he may as well
start practicing now [by going to school]". Still, living in a bubble
doesn't make sense, either. I guess right now my plan is to think very
carefully about the edges of the bubble, and make sure to expand it
regularly. But really, I don't feel at peace with or without the
bubble.
Thanks,
Melanie
____________________________________
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral,
begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing
evil,
it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you
cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you
murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely
increases hate...
Returning violence for hate multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness
to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness.
Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that."
Martin Luther King, Jr.
_________________________________________
My opinion is neither copyrighted nor trademarked, and
it's price competitive. If you like, I'll trade for
one of yours.
[email protected]
On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 13:57:24 -0500 "M. Dalrymple-Lepore"
<si1verkitten@...> writes:
healthy level of skepticism (or cynicism) towards advertising, from the
time they were very young. Actually, you don't even have to limit it to
advertising - kids who have been raised to think freely tend to be hard
to brainwash, in any way.
blonde before, if you check his gallery. It was cool to see which things
were retouched, and how, but most of it was more like concrete evidence
of what we already know. If you play around with Adobe Photoshop you can
do some of the same things...
I look at commercial TV as sort of a way we rip off the advertisers,
really. Ha-ha, you spent all this money that pays for the filming and
broadcasting of a show we like, and you're not getting anything back,
from us anyway. We usually don't watch the ads or buy stuff from them, so
we just get to reap the rewards for free!
Dar
<si1verkitten@...> writes:
> Even as I am watching and talking to myself about the manipulation,I wonder if it's different, though, for kids who have been raised with a
> they are working on me. It's scary to me. I know it sounds
> fanatical, but it really is scary to me.
healthy level of skepticism (or cynicism) towards advertising, from the
time they were very young. Actually, you don't even have to limit it to
advertising - kids who have been raised to think freely tend to be hard
to brainwash, in any way.
>Thanks for posting this - we had fun with it. We'd seen the photos of the
> And today I came across this link: <
> http://homepage.mac.com/gapodaca/digital/bikini/index.html >.
blonde before, if you check his gallery. It was cool to see which things
were retouched, and how, but most of it was more like concrete evidence
of what we already know. If you play around with Adobe Photoshop you can
do some of the same things...
I look at commercial TV as sort of a way we rip off the advertisers,
really. Ha-ha, you spent all this money that pays for the filming and
broadcasting of a show we like, and you're not getting anything back,
from us anyway. We usually don't watch the ads or buy stuff from them, so
we just get to reap the rewards for free!
Dar
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/16/04 12:01:40 PM, si1verkitten@... writes:
<< To me, it is a billion dollar industry whose sole
goal is to brainwash us into handing over our money. >>
Have you bought a Toyota lately? One of those new luxury VW's? Fanta?
A Playstation II that you didn't mean to buy?
Are you a zombie?
<<I know it sounds fanatical,
but it really is scary to me.>>
Maybe your kids won't be afraid of the same things you're afraid of. Maybe
they'll take it in stride if you don't demonize it.
<<
And the Barbie sheets sort of goes along with that-- although he has
blue's clues sheets on the bed right now, lol. I see the vast array of
character-based stuff for kids and it bothers me to realize that they
are crappy products. >>
The only character sheets we've ever bought were USED, and the sheet I put on
my bed last night is a full-sized 100% cotton heavy flannel Ninja Turtle
sheet. My husband and I don't agree on the amount of covers in winter, so we're
doing with separate covers. He wants non-flannel. I want flannel. We got
that sheet for $3 at a thrift store.
We have Barbie pillow cases, thrift store, that aren't great material, but
Holly likes them anyway. Polyester doesn't bother her like it bothers me.
We have a Mario sheet from the thrift store. Too cool to use. HUGE piece
of Marioland print.
<<They only cared about how they could get one more parent to hand over
some cash.>>
Have you ever handed over cash because your child wanted something and then
seen him light up happily? It doesn't suck. But used sheets, even cheaper!
<<The deal is, it's capitalism. And I'm coming to hate capitalism more
everyday. And maybe it's because I get depressed in winter, or maybe
the hormones I'm on trying to get pregnant, or maybe it's my feelings
over the current political situation . . . but I really hate the
society I am raising my child in.>>
There's a recipe for the depression-to-suicide range of thought.
Don't live there. It's no good for you or your child.
Why get pregnant if the world is that horrible and you hate it? Poor child.
Just concentrate on making your already-existing child's life less horrible
and then you'll have done your job and you can die.
<< I've heard an argument that they will have to live in it, they might
as well get used to it-- that just reminds me of my mother, saying
"he's going to spend the rest of his life behind a desk, he may as well
start practicing now [by going to school]". >>
Well, you could kill your whole family. Some people do that. Would that
cheer you up?
<<But really, I don't feel at peace with or without the
bubble.>>
You can't change the world very much. You can't change it ENOUGH. But you
can change your child's life right now, this second. Go give him a big happy
hug. Twirl him around. Find little ways to make yourself happy. You've
discovered a BUNCH of ways to make yourself miserable, but it's not good at all,
not even a little bit.
You won't end capitalism. Don't think about it anymore.
You COULD help make your neighbor's life sweeter today though, and maybe
someone you see out in public. You could give your kid a great afternoon!!
Sandra
<< To me, it is a billion dollar industry whose sole
goal is to brainwash us into handing over our money. >>
Have you bought a Toyota lately? One of those new luxury VW's? Fanta?
A Playstation II that you didn't mean to buy?
Are you a zombie?
<<I know it sounds fanatical,
but it really is scary to me.>>
Maybe your kids won't be afraid of the same things you're afraid of. Maybe
they'll take it in stride if you don't demonize it.
<<
And the Barbie sheets sort of goes along with that-- although he has
blue's clues sheets on the bed right now, lol. I see the vast array of
character-based stuff for kids and it bothers me to realize that they
are crappy products. >>
The only character sheets we've ever bought were USED, and the sheet I put on
my bed last night is a full-sized 100% cotton heavy flannel Ninja Turtle
sheet. My husband and I don't agree on the amount of covers in winter, so we're
doing with separate covers. He wants non-flannel. I want flannel. We got
that sheet for $3 at a thrift store.
We have Barbie pillow cases, thrift store, that aren't great material, but
Holly likes them anyway. Polyester doesn't bother her like it bothers me.
We have a Mario sheet from the thrift store. Too cool to use. HUGE piece
of Marioland print.
<<They only cared about how they could get one more parent to hand over
some cash.>>
Have you ever handed over cash because your child wanted something and then
seen him light up happily? It doesn't suck. But used sheets, even cheaper!
<<The deal is, it's capitalism. And I'm coming to hate capitalism more
everyday. And maybe it's because I get depressed in winter, or maybe
the hormones I'm on trying to get pregnant, or maybe it's my feelings
over the current political situation . . . but I really hate the
society I am raising my child in.>>
There's a recipe for the depression-to-suicide range of thought.
Don't live there. It's no good for you or your child.
Why get pregnant if the world is that horrible and you hate it? Poor child.
Just concentrate on making your already-existing child's life less horrible
and then you'll have done your job and you can die.
<< I've heard an argument that they will have to live in it, they might
as well get used to it-- that just reminds me of my mother, saying
"he's going to spend the rest of his life behind a desk, he may as well
start practicing now [by going to school]". >>
Well, you could kill your whole family. Some people do that. Would that
cheer you up?
<<But really, I don't feel at peace with or without the
bubble.>>
You can't change the world very much. You can't change it ENOUGH. But you
can change your child's life right now, this second. Go give him a big happy
hug. Twirl him around. Find little ways to make yourself happy. You've
discovered a BUNCH of ways to make yourself miserable, but it's not good at all,
not even a little bit.
You won't end capitalism. Don't think about it anymore.
You COULD help make your neighbor's life sweeter today though, and maybe
someone you see out in public. You could give your kid a great afternoon!!
Sandra
Deborah Lewis
***Even as I am watching and talking to myself about the manipulation,
they are working on me.***
We like TV here and my son has had unlimited access to the television.
When he was four or five he thought everything he saw advertised was a
great idea. He was really sure we needed things like an American Express
card and the Downy ball. (I've since heard glowing accounts of the
usefulness of the Downy ball, so no disrespect intended.<g>)
But as time went on he began to notice that every product advertised was
the best money could buy and every doo-dad and gizmo was going to make
life better. He understood it couldn't all be true.
He's a critical consumer and one of his pet peeves is that marketers
think kids are so dumb their going to eat some disgusting fruit roll up
thingy just because it has The Cat in the Hat on the box.<g>
Advertising didn't brainwash him into believing he needs every new
product on the market. His exposure to it was enough that he really had
time to think about the claims they were making and whether they could
all be true.
There are a lot of interesting things going on with advertising and
marketing and we've had conversations about what makes a product
appealing and why advertisers would choose the spokesperson or model they
did.
I think advertising might be more seductive to someone who didn't have
time to explore it through exposure at an early age. After all, most of
our kids don't have credit cards at six and seven <g>, but if they
haven't thought about the power of advertising by the time they're out on
their own with those credit cards, understanding the psychology behind
advertising could be pretty costly.
Deb L
they are working on me.***
We like TV here and my son has had unlimited access to the television.
When he was four or five he thought everything he saw advertised was a
great idea. He was really sure we needed things like an American Express
card and the Downy ball. (I've since heard glowing accounts of the
usefulness of the Downy ball, so no disrespect intended.<g>)
But as time went on he began to notice that every product advertised was
the best money could buy and every doo-dad and gizmo was going to make
life better. He understood it couldn't all be true.
He's a critical consumer and one of his pet peeves is that marketers
think kids are so dumb their going to eat some disgusting fruit roll up
thingy just because it has The Cat in the Hat on the box.<g>
Advertising didn't brainwash him into believing he needs every new
product on the market. His exposure to it was enough that he really had
time to think about the claims they were making and whether they could
all be true.
There are a lot of interesting things going on with advertising and
marketing and we've had conversations about what makes a product
appealing and why advertisers would choose the spokesperson or model they
did.
I think advertising might be more seductive to someone who didn't have
time to explore it through exposure at an early age. After all, most of
our kids don't have credit cards at six and seven <g>, but if they
haven't thought about the power of advertising by the time they're out on
their own with those credit cards, understanding the psychology behind
advertising could be pretty costly.
Deb L
Stephanie Elms
You know, I used to feel this same way...my pet peeve was characters on
kids shoes. I felt that I needed to protect my kids from (as a friend of
mine puts it) "the root of all evil" marketing.
As I have been reading more and more on unschooling.com, however an
interesting thing has happened. I have come to see my kids as a heck of
a lot stronger/smarter then I used to give them credit for. Instead of
someone who needs to be "protected" I see someone who with whom I can
talk about this stuff with and who, given the chance, handles it pretty
dang well! My boys are 7 and almost 4 and I stopped controlling tv about
1.5 years ago. In that time I have seen Jason become very particular
about the shows that he watches. We have tivo and he has his favorites
set up to record regularly. If he catches a new show, I will ask if he
wants it recorded, often he will say no. He doesn't just watch tv to
watch tv (or because something is on)..he watches because he wants to
and he enjoys it.
We have lots of ongoing conversations about marketing and good quality
vs cheap etc. He gets an allowance and is very picky what he spends his
money on. It is an ongoing process and I have to say that I like the
direction we are going in now. Yes, I have bought things that *I* would
not have a couple of years ago but the boys enjoy them and it is not
breaking the bank. It is also helping them see what kind of toys break
easily and how much they end up playing with them.
One of the biggest switches for me since I have loosened up controls is
seeing my kids as smart kids capable of making good decisions instead of
victims of marketing. I have to believe that my seeing them in this way
will only help them in the long run.
Stephanie E.
kids shoes. I felt that I needed to protect my kids from (as a friend of
mine puts it) "the root of all evil" marketing.
As I have been reading more and more on unschooling.com, however an
interesting thing has happened. I have come to see my kids as a heck of
a lot stronger/smarter then I used to give them credit for. Instead of
someone who needs to be "protected" I see someone who with whom I can
talk about this stuff with and who, given the chance, handles it pretty
dang well! My boys are 7 and almost 4 and I stopped controlling tv about
1.5 years ago. In that time I have seen Jason become very particular
about the shows that he watches. We have tivo and he has his favorites
set up to record regularly. If he catches a new show, I will ask if he
wants it recorded, often he will say no. He doesn't just watch tv to
watch tv (or because something is on)..he watches because he wants to
and he enjoys it.
We have lots of ongoing conversations about marketing and good quality
vs cheap etc. He gets an allowance and is very picky what he spends his
money on. It is an ongoing process and I have to say that I like the
direction we are going in now. Yes, I have bought things that *I* would
not have a couple of years ago but the boys enjoy them and it is not
breaking the bank. It is also helping them see what kind of toys break
easily and how much they end up playing with them.
One of the biggest switches for me since I have loosened up controls is
seeing my kids as smart kids capable of making good decisions instead of
victims of marketing. I have to believe that my seeing them in this way
will only help them in the long run.
Stephanie E.
J. Stauffer
<<< but I really hate the
by refusing to get Barbie sheets (or whatever) for him if he wants
them.....but by living YOUR life according to your convictions.
I am completely against conspicuous consumerism. I think when we don't
value value....we lose something very important. I think possessions are
over-rated. My oldest, now 13, is only now able to see AND UNDERSTAND why I
live my life so differently from most of the people she knows.
No matter how we manipulate a child's environment, I don't think we can
force that child to truly have the values we would choose. The child might
learn not to argue about it because it makes life easier. But for that
child to TRULY accept a value...it has to make sense to that child.
Julie S.
> society I am raising my child in.>>>So show him how to take the good of our society and disregard the bad. Not
by refusing to get Barbie sheets (or whatever) for him if he wants
them.....but by living YOUR life according to your convictions.
I am completely against conspicuous consumerism. I think when we don't
value value....we lose something very important. I think possessions are
over-rated. My oldest, now 13, is only now able to see AND UNDERSTAND why I
live my life so differently from most of the people she knows.
No matter how we manipulate a child's environment, I don't think we can
force that child to truly have the values we would choose. The child might
learn not to argue about it because it makes life easier. But for that
child to TRULY accept a value...it has to make sense to that child.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "M. Dalrymple-Lepore" <si1verkitten@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 12:57 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] unlimited access to media
> Hi all--
>
> I've been watching the conversations about TV and video games and
> Barbie sheets and I finally figured out what I wanted to say. I think.
>
> I do attempt to limit what my son sees. At least when we are at home--
> when he visits his cousin 2 nights a week he has full access to all the
> processed food and cartoon network he wants. To my delight, he doesn't
> want much.
>
> I limit which channels on TV because of all the advertising-- I REALLY
> HATE advertising. To me, it is a billion dollar industry whose sole
> goal is to brainwash us into handing over our money. I knew this and
> thought about this ALOT when I worked in the industry at 22-- and 8
> years later I am still astounded at how effectively ads manipulate me.
> Even as I am watching and talking to myself about the manipulation,
> they are working on me. It's scary to me. I know it sounds fanatical,
> but it really is scary to me.
>
> And today I came across this link: <
> http://homepage.mac.com/gapodaca/digital/bikini/index.html >. It's
> essentially an example of exactly how they touch up the pictures in the
> magazines. I was surprised. I knew they were touched up-- but I
> didn't realize that even her hands were touched up, that her belly
> button was touched up. There are other pictures in this guys site and
> even the shoe ads are fake. Shoes!
>
> And I should mention that I do not and have never come anywhere close
> to fitting our society's image of beauty. So maybe that makes me extra
> sensitive. But the idea that my child would come to believe that
> somewhere there are women who really look like that-- I know they are
> fake but deep in my heart there is still a part of me that thinks I
> should look like that when I wake up in the morning. I can't tell you
> how much it bothers me to know in my head that it's not reality, and
> yet still find myself yearning to have what's in those ads-- a house
> without dust, a spouse without pores (!) or lumpy sweaters, shoes that
> have no wrinkles . . . stupid stuff. I know it's stupid stuff, and
> that knowledge doesn't seem to matter.
>
> And the Barbie sheets sort of goes along with that-- although he has
> blue's clues sheets on the bed right now, lol. I see the vast array of
> character-based stuff for kids and it bothers me to realize that they
> are crappy products. On a base level, they are made of inferior
> materials and will feel crappy to your skin within one washing-- the
> company who made them didn't care about the quality of the sheets.
> They only cared about how they could get one more parent to hand over
> some cash.
>
> The deal is, it's capitalism. And I'm coming to hate capitalism more
> everyday. And maybe it's because I get depressed in winter, or maybe
> the hormones I'm on trying to get pregnant, or maybe it's my feelings
> over the current political situation . . .>
> I've heard an argument that they will have to live in it, they might
> as well get used to it-- that just reminds me of my mother, saying
> "he's going to spend the rest of his life behind a desk, he may as well
> start practicing now [by going to school]". Still, living in a bubble
> doesn't make sense, either. I guess right now my plan is to think very
> carefully about the edges of the bubble, and make sure to expand it
> regularly. But really, I don't feel at peace with or without the
> bubble.
>
> Thanks,
> Melanie
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________
> "The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral,
> begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing
> evil,
> it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you
> cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you
> murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely
> increases hate...
> Returning violence for hate multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness
> to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness.
> Hate cannot drive out hate, only love can do that."
> Martin Luther King, Jr.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________
> My opinion is neither copyrighted nor trademarked, and
> it's price competitive. If you like, I'll trade for
> one of yours.
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
Wife2Vegman
> ***Even as I am watching and talking to myself aboutYikes! Big Brother!?
> the manipulation,
> they are working on me.***
Aaron (my 5yo) and I play a game with all the
advertising. We started it a year ago, or so.
Whenever a commercial comes on for a toy or food or
something, we try to beat each other to say, "I WANT
THAT!" Totally diffuses the power of the commercial.
Recently we had a discussion about the difference
between the meanings of want and need. So then he
added to our game, "I WANT THAT! I NEED THAT!"
You know, there was only one toy throughout the whole
Christmas season that he didn't play the game with?
It was Playdoh's Doh Doh Island. For that toy, he
just watched, and then would say quietly, "I hope I
get that for Christmas".
He did.
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
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Wife2Vegman
Hi!
Some of you know me from UnschoolingDiscussion. My
name is Susan, I live in Virginia. I have 3 beautiful
children (Sarah-14, Andrew-12, and Aaron-5) and a cool
DH named Ted. We've been homeschooling for 10 years,
and unschooling for the last 2 of those.
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
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Some of you know me from UnschoolingDiscussion. My
name is Susan, I live in Virginia. I have 3 beautiful
children (Sarah-14, Andrew-12, and Aaron-5) and a cool
DH named Ted. We've been homeschooling for 10 years,
and unschooling for the last 2 of those.
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
__________________________________
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Barbara Chase
>He's a critical consumer and one of his pet peeves is that marketersWe were just at a store yesterday and my daughter saw lots of candy with
>think kids are so dumb their going to eat some disgusting fruit roll up
>thingy just because it has The Cat in the Hat on the box.<g>
Disney princesses on the packages. She asked what everything was, and each
time I told her she said "eeew" (I could just imagine her wondering why in
the heck a princess wanted to be part of a chewy gummy candy -- my dd hates
chewy candies.) She still doesn't get what advertising is (we don't happen
to have TV, but not because we are opposed to it, we just weren't watching
it so we cancelled it), but I think she's starting to... she saw a lot of
it when we were recently in LA visiting family, with TV on and with
advertising signs everywhere!
ciao
--bc--
ps. the hug did wonders for us both!!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
> And today I came across this link: <Oh, my goodness! That's incredible. Every girl (and guy!) that's looked at a
> http://homepage.mac.com/gapodaca/digital/bikini/index.html >.
picture of a model in a magazine should see that.
That's *information*. Rather than protecting people from what they see --
which we ultimately can't! -- we can provide access to information so they
can make more informed choices.
Rather than treating the world as a scary place and children as weak and in
need of defense, we can provide access to information so they're more
powerful than ideas :-)
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/18/2004 4:57:38 AM Central Standard Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
And today I came across this link: <
picture of a model in a magazine should see that.
~~~
I think it's important to note that the pictures are the guy's portfolio.
Some of the pictures were for actual projects (Toy Story), but some of them
apparently had no link to any actual project. And so the really bad picture of
the woman in the bikini was most likely photographed badly in the first place,
to make his changes, and thus his ability, appear more dramatic. No
professional photographer would waste film on a model that was lighted so as to cast
deep shadows over the eyes, for instance. Lots of the tricks are done with the
lighting and the camera, and this is a good example of that.
I don't actually think it's meant to be a commentary on how the fashion
industry operates. Of course, they do retouch photos. But let's see an actual
example from the cover of a magazine, eh?
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fetteroll@... writes:
And today I came across this link: <
> http://homepage.mac.com/gapodaca/digital/bikini/index.html >.Oh, my goodness! That's incredible. Every girl (and guy!) that's looked at a
picture of a model in a magazine should see that.
~~~
I think it's important to note that the pictures are the guy's portfolio.
Some of the pictures were for actual projects (Toy Story), but some of them
apparently had no link to any actual project. And so the really bad picture of
the woman in the bikini was most likely photographed badly in the first place,
to make his changes, and thus his ability, appear more dramatic. No
professional photographer would waste film on a model that was lighted so as to cast
deep shadows over the eyes, for instance. Lots of the tricks are done with the
lighting and the camera, and this is a good example of that.
I don't actually think it's meant to be a commentary on how the fashion
industry operates. Of course, they do retouch photos. But let's see an actual
example from the cover of a magazine, eh?
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 1/18/04 7:37 AM, tuckervill2@... at tuckervill2@... wrote:
I went further and saw the shoe. Shoes do actually look like his final
photograph when they come out of the box. But he started with a shoe that
was obviously worn and turned it into something that looked brand new. If a
company wanted him to photograph a shoe they'd have given him some brand new
ones!
Joyce
> I don't actually think it's meant to be a commentary on how the fashionGood point!
> industry operates. Of course, they do retouch photos. But let's see an
> actual
> example from the cover of a magazine, eh?
I went further and saw the shoe. Shoes do actually look like his final
photograph when they come out of the box. But he started with a shoe that
was obviously worn and turned it into something that looked brand new. If a
company wanted him to photograph a shoe they'd have given him some brand new
ones!
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/18/2004 5:00:35 AM Pacific Standard Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
I went further and saw the shoe. Shoes do actually look like his final
photograph when they come out of the box. But he started with a shoe that
was obviously worn and turned it into something that looked brand new. If a
company wanted him to photograph a shoe they'd have given him some brand new
ones!
I think he was just trying to point out how easily manipulated a picture can
be and not to believe everything you see. Thats his business fixing pictures.
Heidi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fetteroll@... writes:
I went further and saw the shoe. Shoes do actually look like his final
photograph when they come out of the box. But he started with a shoe that
was obviously worn and turned it into something that looked brand new. If a
company wanted him to photograph a shoe they'd have given him some brand new
ones!
I think he was just trying to point out how easily manipulated a picture can
be and not to believe everything you see. Thats his business fixing pictures.
Heidi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/18/04 5:40:04 AM, tuckervill2@... writes:
<< I don't actually think it's meant to be a commentary on how the fashion
industry operates. Of course, they do retouch photos. But let's see an
actual
example from the cover of a magazine, eh? >>
We picked up a magazine that was anti-fashion last year (it was at Wild Oats,
and we were in line--) and it was showing people before and after make-up
(well yeah, that's why some people WEAR makeup, to look very different), and it
showed fashion poses lit well and badly. But anyone who's photographed even
with a disposable camera has figured out there are some bad lighting conditions
and unfortunate poses. And people who've been to a portrait studio (not just
Sears, but even Sears or K-Mart have SOME fancy equipment) have seen
different kinds of lights, and diffusing cloths, and reflecting screens and them
saying tilt just a little *this* way.
No matter how much lighting-magic or make-up, a person always looks better if
she has a look of interested curiosity or serenity or joy on her face than if
she looks surly or slow-minded, and those facial expressions can come and go
in the same person in the same set of photos!!
Sandra
<< I don't actually think it's meant to be a commentary on how the fashion
industry operates. Of course, they do retouch photos. But let's see an
actual
example from the cover of a magazine, eh? >>
We picked up a magazine that was anti-fashion last year (it was at Wild Oats,
and we were in line--) and it was showing people before and after make-up
(well yeah, that's why some people WEAR makeup, to look very different), and it
showed fashion poses lit well and badly. But anyone who's photographed even
with a disposable camera has figured out there are some bad lighting conditions
and unfortunate poses. And people who've been to a portrait studio (not just
Sears, but even Sears or K-Mart have SOME fancy equipment) have seen
different kinds of lights, and diffusing cloths, and reflecting screens and them
saying tilt just a little *this* way.
No matter how much lighting-magic or make-up, a person always looks better if
she has a look of interested curiosity or serenity or joy on her face than if
she looks surly or slow-minded, and those facial expressions can come and go
in the same person in the same set of photos!!
Sandra
Wife2Vegman
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
month about facial expressions, and they did a series
of photographs of several people, showing how their
facial expressions changed.
I seem to recall it saying that a person's facial
expression changes every 2.5 seconds.
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
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>There was an interesting article in Smithsonian last
> No matter how much lighting-magic or make-up, a
> person always looks better if
> she has a look of interested curiosity or serenity
> or joy on her face than if
> she looks surly or slow-minded, and those facial
> expressions can come and go
> in the same person in the same set of photos!!
>
month about facial expressions, and they did a series
of photographs of several people, showing how their
facial expressions changed.
I seem to recall it saying that a person's facial
expression changes every 2.5 seconds.
=====
--Susan in VA
WifetoVegman
What is most important and valuable about the home as a base for children's growth into the world is not that it is a better school than the schools, but that it isn't a school at all. John Holt
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
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[email protected]
In a message dated 1/18/2004 3:17:16 PM Central Standard Time,
wifetovegman2002@... writes:
but we never buy any of it cause we know in real life we won't use it. We
really loved the rotisserie, they almost got us on that one.
Laura Buoni
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wifetovegman2002@... writes:
> ***Even as I am watching and talking to myself aboutMy 12yros and I are so easy when to comes to infomercials, we want everything
> > the manipulation,
> > they are working on me.***
>
but we never buy any of it cause we know in real life we won't use it. We
really loved the rotisserie, they almost got us on that one.
Laura Buoni
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
joylyn
They are fun to watch, the infomercials. Fun to see how they are
selling you things. Fun to think how true it is, will it really work
that way? But then ultimately you turn it off. I see it as cheap
mindless entertainment.
Joylyn
BonKnit@... wrote:
selling you things. Fun to think how true it is, will it really work
that way? But then ultimately you turn it off. I see it as cheap
mindless entertainment.
Joylyn
BonKnit@... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/18/2004 3:17:16 PM Central Standard Time,[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> wifetovegman2002@... writes:
>
>
> > ***Even as I am watching and talking to myself about
> > > the manipulation,
> > > they are working on me.***
> >
>
> My 12yros and I are so easy when to comes to infomercials, we want
> everything
> but we never buy any of it cause we know in real life we won't use it. We
> really loved the rotisserie, they almost got us on that one.
> Laura Buoni
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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Jennifer and Scott Lynch
on 1/19/04 12:03 AM, joylyn at joylyn@... wrote:
They are fun to watch, the infomercials. Fun to see how they are
selling you things. Fun to think how true it is, will it really work
that way? But then ultimately you turn it off. I see it as cheap
mindless entertainment.
Joylyn
I wrote my college thesis (anthropology) on infomercials, technology and the
changing concepts of American identity. I still LOVE to watch infomercials!
They are seductive, powerful pieces of advertising that are even more
hilarious when you dissect them a bit. Watch for the "show" format and the
"commercials" in the middle of one (of course they advertise the product).
Also, try comparing the claims across products. You will be skinnier,
richer, and happier whether you buy the rotisserie, the skin care line, the
gazelle-rider or the sell-your-own real estate program. Oh yikes, don't
even get me started! LONG LIVE TONY ROBBINS!! LOL!!! ;)
Jen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
They are fun to watch, the infomercials. Fun to see how they are
selling you things. Fun to think how true it is, will it really work
that way? But then ultimately you turn it off. I see it as cheap
mindless entertainment.
Joylyn
I wrote my college thesis (anthropology) on infomercials, technology and the
changing concepts of American identity. I still LOVE to watch infomercials!
They are seductive, powerful pieces of advertising that are even more
hilarious when you dissect them a bit. Watch for the "show" format and the
"commercials" in the middle of one (of course they advertise the product).
Also, try comparing the claims across products. You will be skinnier,
richer, and happier whether you buy the rotisserie, the skin care line, the
gazelle-rider or the sell-your-own real estate program. Oh yikes, don't
even get me started! LONG LIVE TONY ROBBINS!! LOL!!! ;)
Jen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]