Retta

I found this interesting and disturbing piece on the internet. Seven years ago my homeschooled niece in Virginia had a hard time getting a driver's license, but this is too weird. Retta

"... I found myself late this afternoon with my 15 year old son
taking his learner's permit exam at the DMV. Imagine my
surprise to see that all the examiner's cubicles have a hastily
copied black and white sheet posted in them which reads: 'To
All of our Customers Who are Male and Age 18 through 25:
Effective November 3, 2003: ...Completion of this application
will be considered as proof of your consent to be registered
with the Selective Service System per the requirements of
Federal and State Law. If you decline to register, your
application for a driver license, learner's permit or ID card will
be denied.'

Full article:
http://radio.weblogs.com/0112894/2003/11/14.html



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In a message dated 12/23/2003 9:43:30 AM Central Standard Time,
rettafontana@... writes:
'To
All of our Customers Who are Male and Age 18 through 25:
Effective November 3, 2003: ...Completion of this application
will be considered as proof of your consent to be registered
with the Selective Service System per the requirements of
Federal and State Law. If you decline to register, your
application for a driver license, learner's permit or ID card will
be denied.'

~~~

I don't even know why this is necessary, since if you don't register the IRS
gets you one way or another. Are all the objectors to SS registration also
non-filers of tax returns? I doubt many 19 or 20 yo men are going to give up
their tax refund they may be entitled to.

I suppose they have a system to verify if a 25 yo has already registered,
otherwise they will be duplicating registrations. The notice doesn't make that
clear.

I don't see the point in not registering. You can register as a conscientous
objector, or you can just not register and wait until the draft is instituted
(if it ever is, which I doubt unless there are dire circumstances) and see
what happens. I doubt it will be easy to get to Canada if that happens. Sadly,
I think they're going to get you one way or another, these days.

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/23/03 9:05:25 AM, tuckervill2@... writes:

<< I doubt it will be easy to get to Canada if that happens. Sadly,
I think they're going to get you one way or another, these days.
>>

They can go for some real purpose and then just not come back.
Like Russian sports figures defected during international competitions. <g>

I could send Kirby to an SCA event with all his SCA gear, and he could stay
there to... help feed the horses. Yeah. We have SCA friends with a horse farm
in Ontario.

But he probably couldn't get a job while he was there and that would be a
drag.

Too early to worry, yet.

Sandra

Tia Leschke

>I found this interesting and disturbing piece on the internet. Seven
>years ago my homeschooled niece in Virginia had a hard time getting a
>driver's license, but this is too weird. Retta
>
>"... I found myself late this afternoon with my 15 year old son
>taking his learner's permit exam at the DMV. Imagine my
>surprise to see that all the examiner's cubicles have a hastily
>copied black and white sheet posted in them which reads: 'To
>All of our Customers Who are Male and Age 18 through 25:
>Effective November 3, 2003: ...Completion of this application
>will be considered as proof of your consent to be registered
>with the Selective Service System per the requirements of
>Federal and State Law. If you decline to register, your
>application for a driver license, learner's permit or ID card will
>be denied.'

This is one of many reasons why I moved to Canada in 1970. No way I was
going to raise sons to be involuntary cannon fodder in wars I disagreed with.
Tia

Tia Leschke

>
>I don't see the point in not registering. You can register as a conscientous
>objector,

Maybe they've changed the way they do it, but it wasn't easy to get that
status back in the 60's.
Tia

Tia Leschke

>
><< I doubt it will be easy to get to Canada if that happens. Sadly,
>I think they're going to get you one way or another, these days.
> >>
>
>They can go for some real purpose and then just not come back.
>Like Russian sports figures defected during international competitions. <g>

If they want to stay underground the rest of their lives. Much as Canadians
don't like much of what the US government does, our government has yet to
offer asylum to an American.
Tia

Sylvia Toyama

I guess there's always Mexico -- certainly much closer for us and the climate's better. Personally, I'd just have to hope they either gave him CO status, letting him serve non-combat or even better, 4-F him. Wonder if he has any undiscovered birth defects.....

Sylvia


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Sylvia Toyama

Maybe they've changed the way they do it, but it wasn't easy to get that
status back in the 60's.
Tia

****


as I understand it, CO status can be pretty hard to achieve. Even worse for Will, before his change of heart and schooling status, he spent 2 yrs in the high school Junior ROTC program, stating several times his intention to become a Marine. Sometime after he turned 16, he did a complete 180, but we still get mail from recuiters in his name. I worry he'd have a hard time convincing the local draft board he's become a pacifist.

Sylvia




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Tia Leschke

>
>
>as I understand it, CO status can be pretty hard to achieve. Even worse
>for Will, before his change of heart and schooling status, he spent 2 yrs
>in the high school Junior ROTC program, stating several times his
>intention to become a Marine. Sometime after he turned 16, he did a
>complete 180, but we still get mail from recuiters in his name. I worry
>he'd have a hard time convincing the local draft board he's become a
>pacifist.

That would make it hard. Might go easier if he'd joined a Quaker meeting or
some other non-violent spiritual path around the same time.
Tia

Sylvia Toyama

That would make it hard. Might go easier if he'd joined a Quaker meeting or
some other non-violent spiritual path around the same time.
Tia

*****

He did buy a copy of the writings of Ghandi. Maybe we could dig up his receipts and give him credit for reading that one, and for the books on Taoism and Confucianism he checked out from the library?

syl


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Tia Leschke

>That would make it hard. Might go easier if he'd joined a Quaker meeting or
>some other non-violent spiritual path around the same time.
>Tia
>
>*****
>
>He did buy a copy of the writings of Ghandi. Maybe we could dig up his
>receipts and give him credit for reading that one, and for the books on
>Taoism and Confucianism he checked out from the library?

Couldn't hurt. <g>
Tia

badolbilz

I really have no idea how things work now, but my father was drafted to
go to Vietnam and applied for CO status. He was required to have a
written statement from a priest or equivalent person to back up his
claims to pacifism ( is that a word?). He did not belong to a church,
so he got the statement from his grandmother's Mennenite minister with
whom he'd attended some services as a teenager. It worked. He did have
to go to Vietnam and carry a gun, but he never had to use it. He was a
medic and said it was horrible.

I have four girls. Would a draft now include women, too, do you think?
Heidi

Tia Leschke wrote:

>>as I understand it, CO status can be pretty hard to achieve. Even worse
>>for Will, before his change of heart and schooling status, he spent 2 yrs
>>in the high school Junior ROTC program, stating several times his
>>intention to become a Marine. Sometime after he turned 16, he did a
>>complete 180, but we still get mail from recuiters in his name. I worry
>>he'd have a hard time convincing the local draft board he's become a
>>pacifist.
>>
>>
>
>That would make it hard. Might go easier if he'd joined a Quaker meeting or
>some other non-violent spiritual path around the same time.
>Tia
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>To visit your group on the web, go to:
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>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

>I really have no idea how things work now, but my father was drafted to
>go to Vietnam and applied for CO status. He was required to have a
>written statement from a priest or equivalent person to back up his
>claims to pacifism ( is that a word?). He did not belong to a church,
>so he got the statement from his grandmother's Mennenite minister with
>whom he'd attended some services as a teenager. It worked. He did have
>to go to Vietnam and carry a gun, but he never had to use it. He was a
>medic and said it was horrible.

I helped my boyfriend at the time go through the process. He also didn't
have a religion that was formally pacifist, so he had to get a lot of
letters, etc. He ended up doing time as a hospital orderly in San
Francisco. They didn't have to actually go to Vietnam.


>I have four girls. Would a draft now include women, too, do you think?

While I'm adamently opposed to the draft, if they're going to have one they
shouldn't just pick on the men.
Tia

Coyote's Corner

Tia,
I can help.
Contact me off list.
Peace,
Janis
401-438-7678
----- Original Message -----
From: badolbilz
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] 18-25 yo's and Driver's Licenses


I really have no idea how things work now, but my father was drafted to
go to Vietnam and applied for CO status. He was required to have a
written statement from a priest or equivalent person to back up his
claims to pacifism ( is that a word?). He did not belong to a church,
so he got the statement from his grandmother's Mennenite minister with
whom he'd attended some services as a teenager. It worked. He did have
to go to Vietnam and carry a gun, but he never had to use it. He was a
medic and said it was horrible.

I have four girls. Would a draft now include women, too, do you think?
Heidi

Tia Leschke wrote:

>>as I understand it, CO status can be pretty hard to achieve. Even worse
>>for Will, before his change of heart and schooling status, he spent 2 yrs
>>in the high school Junior ROTC program, stating several times his
>>intention to become a Marine. Sometime after he turned 16, he did a
>>complete 180, but we still get mail from recuiters in his name. I worry
>>he'd have a hard time convincing the local draft board he's become a
>>pacifist.
>>
>>
>
>That would make it hard. Might go easier if he'd joined a Quaker meeting or
>some other non-violent spiritual path around the same time.
>Tia
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlwaysLearning/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>



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Tia Leschke

>Tia,
>I can help.
>Contact me off list.

It isn't me who's concerned. I'm Canadian.
Tia

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/23/2003 9:04:34 PM Central Standard Time,
leschke@... writes:
>I have four girls. Would a draft now include women, too, do you think?

While I'm adamently opposed to the draft, if they're going to have one they
shouldn't just pick on the men.

~~~

Women who get pregnant while in the service are given the option to get out.
Some women GET pregnant so they can get out. I think if women were drafted,
there would be a whole lot more pregnancies for that reason, and I don't think
that's a very good reason to have children. Therefore, I think drafting
women would be a bad thing for society, and for the children conceived as a
result.

Tuck, who spent 10 years in combat boots


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

>
>
>Women who get pregnant while in the service are given the option to get out.
>Some women GET pregnant so they can get out. I think if women were drafted,
>there would be a whole lot more pregnancies for that reason, and I don't
>think
>that's a very good reason to have children. Therefore, I think drafting
>women would be a bad thing for society, and for the children conceived as a
>result.

Well like I said, I'm completely opposed to the draft anyway. My feelings
on that haven't changed since the 60's.
Tia

Coyote's Corner

I thought you were...
Be well,
Peace,
janis
----- Original Message -----
From: Tia Leschke
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] 18-25 yo's and Driver's Licenses



>Tia,
>I can help.
>Contact me off list.

It isn't me who's concerned. I'm Canadian.
Tia



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Coyote's Corner

Nor mine...especially when the cause is invalid.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: Tia Leschke
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] 18-25 yo's and Driver's Licenses



>
>
>Women who get pregnant while in the service are given the option to get out.
>Some women GET pregnant so they can get out. I think if women were drafted,
>there would be a whole lot more pregnancies for that reason, and I don't
>think
>that's a very good reason to have children. Therefore, I think drafting
>women would be a bad thing for society, and for the children conceived as a
>result.

Well like I said, I'm completely opposed to the draft anyway. My feelings
on that haven't changed since the 60's.
Tia


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