What to do?
Ticia
Please help me with some wise words and what you all do in these situations.
As a pre-unschooler ;) we spend a lot of time at parks and around children of all ages and temperaments. We are having a very difficult time with one particular child at our park days. This child is VERY physically aggressive (age 4 1/2). His mother is very passive with his assaults and usually talks to the other child (who has been assaulted physically) explaining why her child attacked. The mother tends to talk to other peoples kids about the aggression more then talking to her child about why it isn't okay to punch someone when they are frustrated, etc. I imagine to her own child it is kind of like rationalizing his behavior? I don't know?
I tend to not interfere a whole lot when my daughter is playing unless someone is being physically harmed or the play seems to be getting especially vicious. I usually try to nip it before the escalation happens with some distraction. I say *usually* because I also have a 1 yr old who also needs my attention. I don't *see* everything that happens like I did when I only had my dd to watch.
So I guess what I am asking is has anyone had a situation like this where a child in a group is predictably unpredictable and actually has the other kids in the group afraid to play with them? What should I do? Should I talk to the mom and if so what would I say? I know kids go through bouts of aggression, but this is something entirely different. We have known this kid for a few years now and my daughter just doesn't seem to like him (she has actually asked me if she *has* to be his friend). I have told her that I don't like everyone in our group either, but I'm not intentionally mean to them if I don't like them. I have a hard time myself with confrontation, I tend to just kind of stay away from people I don't care for rather then taking the bull by the horns. What can I do to help her when this child is at the park and she doesn't want to play with him? The mom always tells the kids that they shouldn't exclude him, yet he is a force to be reckoned with and most of the other kids just kind of always run away from him which further aggravates his frustration & aggression. :(
I feel like signing this with a Dear Abby type of sig ;)
Signed,
Confused-Ticia :)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
As a pre-unschooler ;) we spend a lot of time at parks and around children of all ages and temperaments. We are having a very difficult time with one particular child at our park days. This child is VERY physically aggressive (age 4 1/2). His mother is very passive with his assaults and usually talks to the other child (who has been assaulted physically) explaining why her child attacked. The mother tends to talk to other peoples kids about the aggression more then talking to her child about why it isn't okay to punch someone when they are frustrated, etc. I imagine to her own child it is kind of like rationalizing his behavior? I don't know?
I tend to not interfere a whole lot when my daughter is playing unless someone is being physically harmed or the play seems to be getting especially vicious. I usually try to nip it before the escalation happens with some distraction. I say *usually* because I also have a 1 yr old who also needs my attention. I don't *see* everything that happens like I did when I only had my dd to watch.
So I guess what I am asking is has anyone had a situation like this where a child in a group is predictably unpredictable and actually has the other kids in the group afraid to play with them? What should I do? Should I talk to the mom and if so what would I say? I know kids go through bouts of aggression, but this is something entirely different. We have known this kid for a few years now and my daughter just doesn't seem to like him (she has actually asked me if she *has* to be his friend). I have told her that I don't like everyone in our group either, but I'm not intentionally mean to them if I don't like them. I have a hard time myself with confrontation, I tend to just kind of stay away from people I don't care for rather then taking the bull by the horns. What can I do to help her when this child is at the park and she doesn't want to play with him? The mom always tells the kids that they shouldn't exclude him, yet he is a force to be reckoned with and most of the other kids just kind of always run away from him which further aggravates his frustration & aggression. :(
I feel like signing this with a Dear Abby type of sig ;)
Signed,
Confused-Ticia :)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Paula Sjogerman
Not what I might do normally, but if she talks to your kid, why don't you
talk to hers?
Paula
talk to hers?
Paula
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/7/03 1:53:29 AM, ticiamama@... writes:
<< What can I do to help her when this child is at the park and she doesn't
want to play with him? >>
You could stay nearer her, and be within arm's reach with that other child
is near, and if he looks about to strike, just grab his arm and say DON'T.
Play nice. And if he calms, cool. If not, lead him to his mom and say "He was
hitting" and leave him there.
<<The mom always tells the kids that they shouldn't exclude him, yet he is a
force to be reckoned with and most of the other kids just kind of always run
away from him which further aggravates his frustration & aggression. :(
he doesn't get physical.
If the moms are sitting and talking, and you see him at a distance getting
frustrated, you could just tell her "Brutus is getting frustrated" and point.
If she doesn't get up, you could.
If it were me, I'd talk to her.
If I were too shy, I'd talk to other moms and figure out who COULD talk to
her, or whether the group could go together and present their concerns.
A group here split in two (last I heard; might be worse now) over a kid/mom
combo like that.
Sandra
<< What can I do to help her when this child is at the park and she doesn't
want to play with him? >>
You could stay nearer her, and be within arm's reach with that other child
is near, and if he looks about to strike, just grab his arm and say DON'T.
Play nice. And if he calms, cool. If not, lead him to his mom and say "He was
hitting" and leave him there.
<<The mom always tells the kids that they shouldn't exclude him, yet he is a
force to be reckoned with and most of the other kids just kind of always run
away from him which further aggravates his frustration & aggression. :(
>>You could recommend to that mom that she follow along to be nearer to him so
he doesn't get physical.
If the moms are sitting and talking, and you see him at a distance getting
frustrated, you could just tell her "Brutus is getting frustrated" and point.
If she doesn't get up, you could.
If it were me, I'd talk to her.
If I were too shy, I'd talk to other moms and figure out who COULD talk to
her, or whether the group could go together and present their concerns.
A group here split in two (last I heard; might be worse now) over a kid/mom
combo like that.
Sandra
Sylvia Toyama
Keeping in mind the dynamic of the group, and the Mom's place in the group, you might be able to talk to her yourself, or it might be better done by someone close to her, if you aren't really that close to her yourself.
And sometimes, even when confronted, such a problem doesn't get solved in a group in a way that will satisfy everyone. In that case, you can stay close to your child or help her to be more successful in playing with that child. You can also give her the choice to exclude that child from her play. If his Mom won't help him to learn new ways to get along, sometimes the only way for a child to learn that is to be excluded by his peers until he gets it that his behavior won't be tolerated.
I recently chose to leave a group because of a situation like yours where my child was the favorite victim, but is so accommodating there was no way for me to make a fuss without upsetting my own kid. He insisted on minimizing what was happening, and was learning to push down his own feelings. It just wasn't happy with the social dynamic that was developing for my son and didn't see any way to fix it, so I chose to leave to protect him. We've since seen others make the same choice, and the problem child continues to enjoy his status in that group while several of us have made other play arrangements. Just keep an eye on any signs your daughter is learning poor choices from being required to be nice to a child who isn't nice to her (or anyone else apparently) and remember what you want her to gain from this group, why you joined in the first place.
Syl
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
And sometimes, even when confronted, such a problem doesn't get solved in a group in a way that will satisfy everyone. In that case, you can stay close to your child or help her to be more successful in playing with that child. You can also give her the choice to exclude that child from her play. If his Mom won't help him to learn new ways to get along, sometimes the only way for a child to learn that is to be excluded by his peers until he gets it that his behavior won't be tolerated.
I recently chose to leave a group because of a situation like yours where my child was the favorite victim, but is so accommodating there was no way for me to make a fuss without upsetting my own kid. He insisted on minimizing what was happening, and was learning to push down his own feelings. It just wasn't happy with the social dynamic that was developing for my son and didn't see any way to fix it, so I chose to leave to protect him. We've since seen others make the same choice, and the problem child continues to enjoy his status in that group while several of us have made other play arrangements. Just keep an eye on any signs your daughter is learning poor choices from being required to be nice to a child who isn't nice to her (or anyone else apparently) and remember what you want her to gain from this group, why you joined in the first place.
Syl
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The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/7/2003 2:53:28 AM Central Daylight Time,
ticiamama@... writes:
So I guess what I am asking is has anyone had a situation like this where a
child in a group is predictably unpredictable and actually has the other kids
in the group afraid to play with them? What should I do? Should I talk to the
mom and if so what would I say?
Yes, this happens over and over again no matter where I go (seems like).
Since the mom seems to not be handling it your satisfaction (which also happens
over and over), I'd trade on my relationship with the child himself. In other
words, I would deal directly with the child, exactly as I would if he were my
own, or as if we were best of friends or related or something. I justify this
(in case the parent gets irate) by the fact that since I go to park day, too,
I have a relationship with the child of some kind. I like to exercise
integrity in my relationships, and I like to protect my own children. So, I would
do what I could to talk this kid into not doing what he likes to do to my kid.
At the very least, I would provide a human shield between my kid and this
kid, standing very nearby, acting nonchalant, even if it means I can't chat with
other parents or do my knitting or whatever I meant to do while I was there.
I'm not going to follow the kid around and protect *other* kids, unless it's
convenient to do so. I'm not opposed to watching like a hawk and stopping a
weapon from behind as it's raised over my child, or placing a hand on the child
to get his attention while saying *something* discouraging about the behavior
on my kid's behalf. Not shaming or yelling or anything like that. Simply
saying, "don't hit him" or "that hurts, please stop", and then stand there to
make sure it does stop. I have been known to draw the attention of other parents
to the impending victimhood of their child, as well. Eventually the kid gets
the message that he won't be able to get away with his bullying around me,
and they end up avoiding me and my kid or, if we're lucky, changing his
behavior.
I have found that some of these parents really are at a loss, or they're
overwhelmed by other children or circumstances, or they can't see a problem, and
so under the auspices of protecting my child, I model for them the behavior I
want to see them use with their child. I have noticed that parents who I have
modeled for long term, with whom I am friends, actually begin to do the same
things eventually.
It's indirect influence, but sometimes that's not enough. In those cases,
you have to decide whether the park day or activity is worth it to you, or if
the behavior is really serious, and you have take on the parent more directly.
All the best ideas about dealing with people will be needed and it won't be
easy or quick. Feelings might be hurt. But something's got to give at this
point, so what is there to lose?
This actually happened in our group and a couple of years later the parent in
question *thanked* us for helping her see her son's behavior through other's
eyes. That child is now successfully in an alternative type school (not that
that's a goal), and we never would have thought that could happen when he was
younger. He was pretty wild.
I think having compassion for the child and the parent is first, and if you
can have that welcoming response with them that Retta explained so beautifully,
it can go a long way towards smoothing things over.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ticiamama@... writes:
So I guess what I am asking is has anyone had a situation like this where a
child in a group is predictably unpredictable and actually has the other kids
in the group afraid to play with them? What should I do? Should I talk to the
mom and if so what would I say?
Yes, this happens over and over again no matter where I go (seems like).
Since the mom seems to not be handling it your satisfaction (which also happens
over and over), I'd trade on my relationship with the child himself. In other
words, I would deal directly with the child, exactly as I would if he were my
own, or as if we were best of friends or related or something. I justify this
(in case the parent gets irate) by the fact that since I go to park day, too,
I have a relationship with the child of some kind. I like to exercise
integrity in my relationships, and I like to protect my own children. So, I would
do what I could to talk this kid into not doing what he likes to do to my kid.
At the very least, I would provide a human shield between my kid and this
kid, standing very nearby, acting nonchalant, even if it means I can't chat with
other parents or do my knitting or whatever I meant to do while I was there.
I'm not going to follow the kid around and protect *other* kids, unless it's
convenient to do so. I'm not opposed to watching like a hawk and stopping a
weapon from behind as it's raised over my child, or placing a hand on the child
to get his attention while saying *something* discouraging about the behavior
on my kid's behalf. Not shaming or yelling or anything like that. Simply
saying, "don't hit him" or "that hurts, please stop", and then stand there to
make sure it does stop. I have been known to draw the attention of other parents
to the impending victimhood of their child, as well. Eventually the kid gets
the message that he won't be able to get away with his bullying around me,
and they end up avoiding me and my kid or, if we're lucky, changing his
behavior.
I have found that some of these parents really are at a loss, or they're
overwhelmed by other children or circumstances, or they can't see a problem, and
so under the auspices of protecting my child, I model for them the behavior I
want to see them use with their child. I have noticed that parents who I have
modeled for long term, with whom I am friends, actually begin to do the same
things eventually.
It's indirect influence, but sometimes that's not enough. In those cases,
you have to decide whether the park day or activity is worth it to you, or if
the behavior is really serious, and you have take on the parent more directly.
All the best ideas about dealing with people will be needed and it won't be
easy or quick. Feelings might be hurt. But something's got to give at this
point, so what is there to lose?
This actually happened in our group and a couple of years later the parent in
question *thanked* us for helping her see her son's behavior through other's
eyes. That child is now successfully in an alternative type school (not that
that's a goal), and we never would have thought that could happen when he was
younger. He was pretty wild.
I think having compassion for the child and the parent is first, and if you
can have that welcoming response with them that Retta explained so beautifully,
it can go a long way towards smoothing things over.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
joylyn
Ticia
Maybe I'm answering different because I know you and your daughter.
First, Chloe (am I going to get in trouble for using her name?) doesn't
have to play with anyone she doesn't want to play with. (ends in
preposition, can't change it). She can choose her friends. That's one
of the joys of homeschooling. She can't be mean to him, but she
shouldn't have to play with him. If she was in school she'd have to
"get along with everyone."
Second, if this boy is there, I'd be right with Chloe all the time. If
he's close to her, I'd be just as close. If I hear the situation
esculating I would step in and talk to the child. He's 4 1/2, he's
getting the message from mom that he's not responsible for his behavior
and that others need to change their behaviors to fit his needs,--not
true and not good messages. I'd tell him that when he's mean, no one
wants to be with him, and then I'd help C find something else to do.
Short and sweet before mom comes over.
Third, I'd teach C to be more assertive. In this world our children,
but especially our girls, need to be strong assertive women. Help her
practice the words "when you are mean to me I don't want to play with
you or be around you. If you are nice to me I will play with you. If
you are mean, I will leave." Have them say them to you in your backyard
in a mock situation. Have her stand up for herself. Pair her with
another little child (Lexie? we need to come play anyway) who is really
good at being assertive and saying those things, so she can model.
Lexie will tell him right off and she'll protect C and Janene.
Sadly there are people out there who think that boys acting like this is
normal and accetable. Boys will be boys, right? If mom isn't telling
him that his behavior is not acceptable, then Chloe certainly has a
right to do so--and she needs to learn to do so. Standing up now to the
childthat hits will help her stand up the to the child that says "but if
I don't have sex my balls will fall off" or some other outragious
statement. So often as a little girl I (and other little girls )were
told to be quiet and still and meek and mild. Not for my girls.
Joylyn
ps, when did you join this list? Did I know you were on it and just
forgot? Or have I completely lost my brain and you aren't the same
Ticia I thought you are/were?
Ticia wrote:
Maybe I'm answering different because I know you and your daughter.
First, Chloe (am I going to get in trouble for using her name?) doesn't
have to play with anyone she doesn't want to play with. (ends in
preposition, can't change it). She can choose her friends. That's one
of the joys of homeschooling. She can't be mean to him, but she
shouldn't have to play with him. If she was in school she'd have to
"get along with everyone."
Second, if this boy is there, I'd be right with Chloe all the time. If
he's close to her, I'd be just as close. If I hear the situation
esculating I would step in and talk to the child. He's 4 1/2, he's
getting the message from mom that he's not responsible for his behavior
and that others need to change their behaviors to fit his needs,--not
true and not good messages. I'd tell him that when he's mean, no one
wants to be with him, and then I'd help C find something else to do.
Short and sweet before mom comes over.
Third, I'd teach C to be more assertive. In this world our children,
but especially our girls, need to be strong assertive women. Help her
practice the words "when you are mean to me I don't want to play with
you or be around you. If you are nice to me I will play with you. If
you are mean, I will leave." Have them say them to you in your backyard
in a mock situation. Have her stand up for herself. Pair her with
another little child (Lexie? we need to come play anyway) who is really
good at being assertive and saying those things, so she can model.
Lexie will tell him right off and she'll protect C and Janene.
Sadly there are people out there who think that boys acting like this is
normal and accetable. Boys will be boys, right? If mom isn't telling
him that his behavior is not acceptable, then Chloe certainly has a
right to do so--and she needs to learn to do so. Standing up now to the
childthat hits will help her stand up the to the child that says "but if
I don't have sex my balls will fall off" or some other outragious
statement. So often as a little girl I (and other little girls )were
told to be quiet and still and meek and mild. Not for my girls.
Joylyn
ps, when did you join this list? Did I know you were on it and just
forgot? Or have I completely lost my brain and you aren't the same
Ticia I thought you are/were?
Ticia wrote:
> Please help me with some wise words and what you all do in these[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> situations.
>
> As a pre-unschooler ;) we spend a lot of time at parks and around
> children of all ages and temperaments. We are having a very difficult
> time with one particular child at our park days. This child is VERY
> physically aggressive (age 4 1/2). His mother is very passive with his
> assaults and usually talks to the other child (who has been assaulted
> physically) explaining why her child attacked. The mother tends to
> talk to other peoples kids about the aggression more then talking to
> her child about why it isn't okay to punch someone when they are
> frustrated, etc. I imagine to her own child it is kind of like
> rationalizing his behavior? I don't know?
>
> I tend to not interfere a whole lot when my daughter is playing unless
> someone is being physically harmed or the play seems to be getting
> especially vicious. I usually try to nip it before the escalation
> happens with some distraction. I say *usually* because I also have a 1
> yr old who also needs my attention. I don't *see* everything that
> happens like I did when I only had my dd to watch.
>
> So I guess what I am asking is has anyone had a situation like this
> where a child in a group is predictably unpredictable and actually has
> the other kids in the group afraid to play with them? What should I
> do? Should I talk to the mom and if so what would I say? I know kids
> go through bouts of aggression, but this is something entirely
> different. We have known this kid for a few years now and my daughter
> just doesn't seem to like him (she has actually asked me if she *has*
> to be his friend). I have told her that I don't like everyone in our
> group either, but I'm not intentionally mean to them if I don't like
> them. I have a hard time myself with confrontation, I tend to just
> kind of stay away from people I don't care for rather then taking the
> bull by the horns. What can I do to help her when this child is at the
> park and she doesn't want to play with him? The mom always tells the
> kids that they shouldn't exclude him, yet he is a force to be reckoned
> with and most of the other kids just kind of always run away from him
> which further aggravates his frustration & aggression. :(
>
> I feel like signing this with a Dear Abby type of sig ;)
>
> Signed,
> Confused-Ticia :)
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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Brandy
Hi Joylyn!
I'm going to jump in here too, since we're smack dab in the middle of
this situation as well, and Gavin is usually on the receiving end of
these attacks. Your advice is great, except that with this boy...it
won't work. All of the tools that I have armed Gavin with (walking
away, finding someone else to play with, telling the person that it's
not okay to hurt him, etc.) to get him out of a bad situation, have
gotten him pounced on by this boy. If you ignore him or tell him that
what he is doing is mean, he will attack you!!!!! The mom then
focuses the attention on the attacked child and tells them what they
did wrong and why he felt the need to be physical with them. Usually
she blames it on him being excluded...but what the heck am I supposed
to tell my son...go ahead...play with that little kid who freaks out
and attacks you when things don't go his way.
He is one of those kids that kind of looks right through you when you
are talking to him, and to be honest...he scares me too! One day he
hit me with a stick to get my attention, I had the baby in my arms,
and luckily he missed him.
I think that Sandra was right in her post, she needs to be talked to
directly about this because I don't think that anything else will
work in this case. It's becoming a safety issue for the other kids in
the group and by not talking to her in order to spare her feelings, I
am putting her first and my kids second...my wonderful husband
pointed this out to me last night ;) Of course, talking to her is
easier said than done.
Brandy...new to posting to the list, but I've been enjoying the
discussions for a while :)
I'm going to jump in here too, since we're smack dab in the middle of
this situation as well, and Gavin is usually on the receiving end of
these attacks. Your advice is great, except that with this boy...it
won't work. All of the tools that I have armed Gavin with (walking
away, finding someone else to play with, telling the person that it's
not okay to hurt him, etc.) to get him out of a bad situation, have
gotten him pounced on by this boy. If you ignore him or tell him that
what he is doing is mean, he will attack you!!!!! The mom then
focuses the attention on the attacked child and tells them what they
did wrong and why he felt the need to be physical with them. Usually
she blames it on him being excluded...but what the heck am I supposed
to tell my son...go ahead...play with that little kid who freaks out
and attacks you when things don't go his way.
He is one of those kids that kind of looks right through you when you
are talking to him, and to be honest...he scares me too! One day he
hit me with a stick to get my attention, I had the baby in my arms,
and luckily he missed him.
I think that Sandra was right in her post, she needs to be talked to
directly about this because I don't think that anything else will
work in this case. It's becoming a safety issue for the other kids in
the group and by not talking to her in order to spare her feelings, I
am putting her first and my kids second...my wonderful husband
pointed this out to me last night ;) Of course, talking to her is
easier said than done.
Brandy...new to posting to the list, but I've been enjoying the
discussions for a while :)
--- In [email protected], joylyn <joylyn@e...> wrote:
practice the words "when you are mean to me I don't want to play
with
> you or be around you. If you are nice to me I will play with you.
If
> you are mean, I will leave
aicitticia
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
Chloe is VERY assertive and not afraid at all to express herself.
She is very verbous and has always been able to communicate her
emotions to others :). I guess I need to be a hawk-mama when he is
around. Good point.
children {{shrug}}}. It's like she is warning them all about the
little volcano about to explode and how to stop provoking him to
this point. I mean provoke in such a broad sense in this case.
Provoking him doesn't take much.
***LOL...this is kind of where we are right now...just needed
some "outgroup" opinion on the whole ordeal. Some perspective
outside of the context of our little cozy group is always insightful.
Thanks,
Ticia
>other child
> You could stay nearer her, and be within arm's reach with that
> is near, and if he looks about to strike, just grab his arm andsay DON'T.
> Play nice. And if he calms, cool. If not, lead him to his momand say "He was
> hitting" and leave him there.***I do need to stay closer to her when he is around that is true.
Chloe is VERY assertive and not afraid at all to express herself.
She is very verbous and has always been able to communicate her
emotions to others :). I guess I need to be a hawk-mama when he is
around. Good point.
> You could recommend to that mom that she follow along to be nearerto him so
> he doesn't get physical.***She follows him like a hawk, yet she discipline's all the other
children {{shrug}}}. It's like she is warning them all about the
little volcano about to explode and how to stop provoking him to
this point. I mean provoke in such a broad sense in this case.
Provoking him doesn't take much.
> If the moms are sitting and talking, and you see him at a distancegetting
> frustrated, you could just tell her "Brutus is getting frustrated"and point.
> If she doesn't get up, you could.***Yep. This we often do w/ her.
>talk to
> If it were me, I'd talk to her.
> If I were too shy, I'd talk to other moms and figure out who COULD
> her, or whether the group could go together and present theirconcerns.
***LOL...this is kind of where we are right now...just needed
some "outgroup" opinion on the whole ordeal. Some perspective
outside of the context of our little cozy group is always insightful.
>a kid/mom
> A group here split in two (last I heard; might be worse now) over
> combo like that.Hmmm. Food for thought.
> Sandra
Thanks,
Ticia
aicitticia
Just keep an eye on any signs your daughter is learning poor
choices from being required to be nice to a child who isn't nice to
her (or anyone else apparently) and remember what you want her to
gain from this group, why you joined in the first place.
Although Chloe is a very assertive person I do worry about her
making poor choices from being *required* to be nice just "because
that is what you do" (for whatever benign reason). I do need to look
at what I want her to gain from the experience and thanks to all
this feedback that is exactly what I have been doing the past 2
days ;)
Ticia
choices from being required to be nice to a child who isn't nice to
her (or anyone else apparently) and remember what you want her to
gain from this group, why you joined in the first place.
>Thanks Sylvia.
> Syl
Although Chloe is a very assertive person I do worry about her
making poor choices from being *required* to be nice just "because
that is what you do" (for whatever benign reason). I do need to look
at what I want her to gain from the experience and thanks to all
this feedback that is exactly what I have been doing the past 2
days ;)
Ticia
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
aicitticia
> At the very least, I would provide a human shield between my kidand this
> kid, standing very nearby, acting nonchalant, even if it means Ican't chat with
***Yes, I see that this is what I will have to do. I will need to
just be MUCH more on the situation then normally. I'm so used to the
usual playful dynamic when this child isn't at the park and it just
kind of rocks our world when he comes around.
Not shaming or yelling or anything like that. Simply
> saying, "don't hit him" or "that hurts, please stop", and thenstand there to
> make sure it does stop.***Yes this is what I usually do with him. It works sometimes.
>they're
> I have found that some of these parents really are at a loss, or
> overwhelmed by other children or circumstances, or they can't seea problem, and
> so under the auspices of protecting my child, I model for them thebehavior I
> want to see them use with their child.***I agree, in this case that is exactly what I believe is going on.
I try to model what I want to see people use w/ their children too,
but some parents just don't want to learn my lessons ;) LOL.
Feelings might be hurt. But something's got to give at this
> point, so what is there to lose?***Hopefully there will be something to gain :) I'm optimistic!
> I think having compassion for the child and the parent is first,and if you
> can have that welcoming response with them that Retta explained sobeautifully,
> it can go a long way towards smoothing things over.***Definitely...I agree!!! Thank you.
>
> Tuck
Ticia
(Who cannot believe how much she can respond to posts since her baby
is wiped out in bed for the count. I guess Disneyland and the
Natural History Museum can do that to a 1 yr old)
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/7/03 11:02:37 PM, ticiamama@... writes:
<< > A group here split in two (last I heard; might be worse now) over
a kid/mom
just distaste and irritation.
But I think it's better for the group leader or a group to press one family
to change or leave than for them all to be weenies and let the group dissolve
rather than remove the irritation.
My kids were getting tired of having the weekly meetings, so when I saw my
own group crumbling, I just let it go. It let it be natural causes instead of
me disbanding.
No group will last forever anyway, so maybe the health of the group otherwise
could be a deciding factor.
Sandra
<< > A group here split in two (last I heard; might be worse now) over
a kid/mom
> combo like that.A group I had kinda dissolved over one family. It wasn't violence that time,
> Sandra
>>Hmmm. Food for thought. >>
just distaste and irritation.
But I think it's better for the group leader or a group to press one family
to change or leave than for them all to be weenies and let the group dissolve
rather than remove the irritation.
My kids were getting tired of having the weekly meetings, so when I saw my
own group crumbling, I just let it go. It let it be natural causes instead of
me disbanding.
No group will last forever anyway, so maybe the health of the group otherwise
could be a deciding factor.
Sandra
Bill & Diane
I would not let this mom get away with this. I would tell my kid she
doesn't have to play with anyone she doesn't want to. I would tell my
kid she is in charge of her own body and she decides who to play with
and when.
In theory I would also tell mom and kid that if he hurts people they're
not going to want to be around him, but that really depends. But I
wouldn't make my kid stay around some dangerous, harmful person to
placate his mom who thinks someone shouldn't be "excluded" because
they're violent or aggressive. If I wanted my kid beat up on, I'd send
'em to school!
:-) Diane
doesn't have to play with anyone she doesn't want to. I would tell my
kid she is in charge of her own body and she decides who to play with
and when.
In theory I would also tell mom and kid that if he hurts people they're
not going to want to be around him, but that really depends. But I
wouldn't make my kid stay around some dangerous, harmful person to
placate his mom who thinks someone shouldn't be "excluded" because
they're violent or aggressive. If I wanted my kid beat up on, I'd send
'em to school!
:-) Diane
> What can I do to help her when this child is at the park and she doesn't want to play with him? The mom always tells the kids that they shouldn't exclude him, yet he is a force to be reckoned with and most of the other kids just kind of always run away from him which further aggravates his frustration & aggression. :(
>
coyote's corner
I have to agree here.
When we first moved here, we met the family down the street -
The boys down the street (they've since moved) were terrible. Of course, when I met them, the mom was over here - had to meet me, had to 'see my home - just to make sure' They seemed like a nice, normal family. Little did I know they could have inspired Stephan King!
Her kids;
stole Brianna's fairy dust (that was in her treasure box) and when they got to his house - he took it out & poured it down the drain - in front of her)
Mom & I talked - she talked to her son & gave him time out.
A few days later, Brianna came screaming home - SCREAMING - home (sorry - just making a point)
the younger son had hit her in the face with an Elmo doll.
Her adult front tooth was/is badly chipped.
Mom said "She has other teeth"
"He didn't mean to break her tooth, he was just hitting her in the face."
"It's not a big thing - she isn't a model or anything like that."
"I've given him 5 minutes time out - it's over."
They tormented the animals in the neighborhood.
They stole bikes.
They pulled up gardens.
Her older son (the mean thief) was in Brianna's room in public school - he was always 'almost' hitting her (and the others - he was the class bully)
The teacher 'didn't see him' - so she couldn't do anything about it.
Finally I told him to stop hitting her. He told me that there was nothing I could do about it. I told him I would call the police.
He told his parents.
They tried to have me arrested for verbal child abuse.
When a police officer, the parents & I met in the principles office - we went through what was happening in school - "Boys will be boys." (East Prov. P.O.) I then informed them that Brianna was going to be taught to defend herself - "Two wrongs don't make a right" (East Providence Police officer)
When we talked of the boy shoving Brianna's friend down and laying on top of her ( on her back) - I was told that was innocent.
When I said I would take whatever measures necessary and that what he did was abuse and assault - I was told that 7 y.o.s don't commit crimes.
When these people moved out of the neighborhood - entire families were literally applauding!!
Do not let that boy near your kid. I made the mistake of thinking that if a parent was 'near-by' or dealing w/ it - there would be an improvement in the situation - hence, Brianna has a broken tooth.
FYI - she's had two caps and a root canal - it's going to have to be replaced with an implant (around here - we're talking $2,000 - now - never mind when she's old enough to get one!)
Janis
When we first moved here, we met the family down the street -
The boys down the street (they've since moved) were terrible. Of course, when I met them, the mom was over here - had to meet me, had to 'see my home - just to make sure' They seemed like a nice, normal family. Little did I know they could have inspired Stephan King!
Her kids;
stole Brianna's fairy dust (that was in her treasure box) and when they got to his house - he took it out & poured it down the drain - in front of her)
Mom & I talked - she talked to her son & gave him time out.
A few days later, Brianna came screaming home - SCREAMING - home (sorry - just making a point)
the younger son had hit her in the face with an Elmo doll.
Her adult front tooth was/is badly chipped.
Mom said "She has other teeth"
"He didn't mean to break her tooth, he was just hitting her in the face."
"It's not a big thing - she isn't a model or anything like that."
"I've given him 5 minutes time out - it's over."
They tormented the animals in the neighborhood.
They stole bikes.
They pulled up gardens.
Her older son (the mean thief) was in Brianna's room in public school - he was always 'almost' hitting her (and the others - he was the class bully)
The teacher 'didn't see him' - so she couldn't do anything about it.
Finally I told him to stop hitting her. He told me that there was nothing I could do about it. I told him I would call the police.
He told his parents.
They tried to have me arrested for verbal child abuse.
When a police officer, the parents & I met in the principles office - we went through what was happening in school - "Boys will be boys." (East Prov. P.O.) I then informed them that Brianna was going to be taught to defend herself - "Two wrongs don't make a right" (East Providence Police officer)
When we talked of the boy shoving Brianna's friend down and laying on top of her ( on her back) - I was told that was innocent.
When I said I would take whatever measures necessary and that what he did was abuse and assault - I was told that 7 y.o.s don't commit crimes.
When these people moved out of the neighborhood - entire families were literally applauding!!
Do not let that boy near your kid. I made the mistake of thinking that if a parent was 'near-by' or dealing w/ it - there would be an improvement in the situation - hence, Brianna has a broken tooth.
FYI - she's had two caps and a root canal - it's going to have to be replaced with an implant (around here - we're talking $2,000 - now - never mind when she's old enough to get one!)
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: joylyn
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 12:18 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] What to do?
Ticia
Maybe I'm answering different because I know you and your daughter.
First, Chloe (am I going to get in trouble for using her name?) doesn't
have to play with anyone she doesn't want to play with. (ends in
preposition, can't change it). She can choose her friends. That's one
of the joys of homeschooling. She can't be mean to him, but she
shouldn't have to play with him. If she was in school she'd have to
"get along with everyone."
Second, if this boy is there, I'd be right with Chloe all the time. If
he's close to her, I'd be just as close. If I hear the situation
esculating I would step in and talk to the child. He's 4 1/2, he's
getting the message from mom that he's not responsible for his behavior
and that others need to change their behaviors to fit his needs,--not
true and not good messages. I'd tell him that when he's mean, no one
wants to be with him, and then I'd help C find something else to do.
Short and sweet before mom comes over.
Third, I'd teach C to be more assertive. In this world our children,
but especially our girls, need to be strong assertive women. Help her
practice the words "when you are mean to me I don't want to play with
you or be around you. If you are nice to me I will play with you. If
you are mean, I will leave." Have them say them to you in your backyard
in a mock situation. Have her stand up for herself. Pair her with
another little child (Lexie? we need to come play anyway) who is really
good at being assertive and saying those things, so she can model.
Lexie will tell him right off and she'll protect C and Janene.
Sadly there are people out there who think that boys acting like this is
normal and accetable. Boys will be boys, right? If mom isn't telling
him that his behavior is not acceptable, then Chloe certainly has a
right to do so--and she needs to learn to do so. Standing up now to the
childthat hits will help her stand up the to the child that says "but if
I don't have sex my balls will fall off" or some other outragious
statement. So often as a little girl I (and other little girls )were
told to be quiet and still and meek and mild. Not for my girls.
Joylyn
ps, when did you join this list? Did I know you were on it and just
forgot? Or have I completely lost my brain and you aren't the same
Ticia I thought you are/were?
Ticia wrote:
> Please help me with some wise words and what you all do in these
> situations.
>
> As a pre-unschooler ;) we spend a lot of time at parks and around
> children of all ages and temperaments. We are having a very difficult
> time with one particular child at our park days. This child is VERY
> physically aggressive (age 4 1/2). His mother is very passive with his
> assaults and usually talks to the other child (who has been assaulted
> physically) explaining why her child attacked. The mother tends to
> talk to other peoples kids about the aggression more then talking to
> her child about why it isn't okay to punch someone when they are
> frustrated, etc. I imagine to her own child it is kind of like
> rationalizing his behavior? I don't know?
>
> I tend to not interfere a whole lot when my daughter is playing unless
> someone is being physically harmed or the play seems to be getting
> especially vicious. I usually try to nip it before the escalation
> happens with some distraction. I say *usually* because I also have a 1
> yr old who also needs my attention. I don't *see* everything that
> happens like I did when I only had my dd to watch.
>
> So I guess what I am asking is has anyone had a situation like this
> where a child in a group is predictably unpredictable and actually has
> the other kids in the group afraid to play with them? What should I
> do? Should I talk to the mom and if so what would I say? I know kids
> go through bouts of aggression, but this is something entirely
> different. We have known this kid for a few years now and my daughter
> just doesn't seem to like him (she has actually asked me if she *has*
> to be his friend). I have told her that I don't like everyone in our
> group either, but I'm not intentionally mean to them if I don't like
> them. I have a hard time myself with confrontation, I tend to just
> kind of stay away from people I don't care for rather then taking the
> bull by the horns. What can I do to help her when this child is at the
> park and she doesn't want to play with him? The mom always tells the
> kids that they shouldn't exclude him, yet he is a force to be reckoned
> with and most of the other kids just kind of always run away from him
> which further aggravates his frustration & aggression. :(
>
> I feel like signing this with a Dear Abby type of sig ;)
>
> Signed,
> Confused-Ticia :)
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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In a message dated 10/8/2003 12:02:39 AM Central Daylight Time,
ticiamama@... writes:
***She follows him like a hawk, yet she discipline's all the other
children {{shrug}}}. It's like she is warning them all about the
little volcano about to explode and how to stop provoking him to
this point.
This is a new take on the situation. I'd probably stand there and calmly and
directly counter her "discipline" by disciplining her own child twisting her
own words to fit. I may even over blow it to see if she'd get the hint. I
may even actually *say* that my child is not the cause of her son's behavior.
That attitude right there would piss me off.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ticiamama@... writes:
***She follows him like a hawk, yet she discipline's all the other
children {{shrug}}}. It's like she is warning them all about the
little volcano about to explode and how to stop provoking him to
this point.
This is a new take on the situation. I'd probably stand there and calmly and
directly counter her "discipline" by disciplining her own child twisting her
own words to fit. I may even over blow it to see if she'd get the hint. I
may even actually *say* that my child is not the cause of her son's behavior.
That attitude right there would piss me off.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/8/2003 2:38:11 AM Central Daylight Time,
bdel99@... writes:
If you ignore him or tell him that
what he is doing is mean, he will attack you!!!!!
Wow.
When I found out the kid in the OP was only 4-1/2, I had hope. Lots of 4 & 5
yo boys are kinda violent and aggressive. They don't have words or other
options for their frustration, yet. It seems stronger at that age. But it needs
to be controlled so other people are safe.
If it was an 8 yo or even a 6 yo, I'd definitely be more willing to make the
mom aware that the behavior would get them excluded. But a 4 or 5...I'd talk
to her, but not kick her out.
And I'm with Sandra...I'm more willing to exclude the offending family than
disband a group over it.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bdel99@... writes:
If you ignore him or tell him that
what he is doing is mean, he will attack you!!!!!
Wow.
When I found out the kid in the OP was only 4-1/2, I had hope. Lots of 4 & 5
yo boys are kinda violent and aggressive. They don't have words or other
options for their frustration, yet. It seems stronger at that age. But it needs
to be controlled so other people are safe.
If it was an 8 yo or even a 6 yo, I'd definitely be more willing to make the
mom aware that the behavior would get them excluded. But a 4 or 5...I'd talk
to her, but not kick her out.
And I'm with Sandra...I'm more willing to exclude the offending family than
disband a group over it.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/8/2003 8:04:14 AM Central Daylight Time,
janis@... writes:
Mom said "She has other teeth"
"He didn't mean to break her tooth, he was just hitting her in the face."
"It's not a big thing - she isn't a model or anything like that."
"I've given him 5 minutes time out - it's over."
ay yi yi. I want to run screaming from the room!!!!
I'm so glad they moved. That kid is a psychopath.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
janis@... writes:
Mom said "She has other teeth"
"He didn't mean to break her tooth, he was just hitting her in the face."
"It's not a big thing - she isn't a model or anything like that."
"I've given him 5 minutes time out - it's over."
ay yi yi. I want to run screaming from the room!!!!
I'm so glad they moved. That kid is a psychopath.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>But too bad for the people in his new neighbourhood. Yikes!
>Mom said "She has other teeth"
>"He didn't mean to break her tooth, he was just hitting her in the face."
>"It's not a big thing - she isn't a model or anything like that."
>"I've given him 5 minutes time out - it's over."
>ay yi yi. I want to run screaming from the room!!!!
>
>I'm so glad they moved. That kid is a psychopath.
Tia
pam sorooshian
On Wednesday, October 8, 2003, at 06:17 AM, Tuckervill@... wrote:
think the parent can learn from observing the other parents. If I
think that the parent is open to learning ways to respond that will,
eventually, lead to improvement - then I counsel my kids and friends to
be tolerant and helpful. It has paid off - there are people we consider
dear friends whose kids had difficulties at various times over the
years. There are others we've cut off contact with whose kids grew up,
from what we hear through the grapevine, to be even worse as older kids
and teens than they were as young kids. It was predictable, given the
parents' behaviors, and I'm glad that we didn't engage in futile
efforts to help (for too long, anyway).
Homeschool groups are there for support and friendship - but they won't
be good places for that if bullying is allowed. Better for one family
to find some place else to hang out then for a group to not be the warm
nurturing place it could be without them.
I'd get a few parents together - take the mom off by yourselves - tell
her that you feel that the group is not right for her and that her son
isn't fitting in well. If she argues - and if you can't fully resist
the arguments - say that if she really thinks it IS right for them,
then she needs to stay with her son every minute AND stop talking to
the OTHER kids and focus on her own son's behavior only. Say, "You must
be right with your son at all times. Do not talk to our children or
have contact with them in any other way, deal only with your own son."
Those are the only conditions under which I'd let her stay. And I'd be
really really clear and blunt. Remember - you do not have to worry
about hurting her feelings - she isn't worrying about your children
being hurt.
She'll leave.
She'll say bad things about you to other people here and there.
You'll have such a nicer group to relax in and enjoy that you won't
care.
-pam
> If it was an 8 yo or even a 6 yo, I'd definitely be more willing toI look at how the parent is handling the child's behavior and whether I
> make the mom aware that the behavior would get them excluded. But a
> 4 or 5...I'd talk to her, but not kick her out.
think the parent can learn from observing the other parents. If I
think that the parent is open to learning ways to respond that will,
eventually, lead to improvement - then I counsel my kids and friends to
be tolerant and helpful. It has paid off - there are people we consider
dear friends whose kids had difficulties at various times over the
years. There are others we've cut off contact with whose kids grew up,
from what we hear through the grapevine, to be even worse as older kids
and teens than they were as young kids. It was predictable, given the
parents' behaviors, and I'm glad that we didn't engage in futile
efforts to help (for too long, anyway).
Homeschool groups are there for support and friendship - but they won't
be good places for that if bullying is allowed. Better for one family
to find some place else to hang out then for a group to not be the warm
nurturing place it could be without them.
I'd get a few parents together - take the mom off by yourselves - tell
her that you feel that the group is not right for her and that her son
isn't fitting in well. If she argues - and if you can't fully resist
the arguments - say that if she really thinks it IS right for them,
then she needs to stay with her son every minute AND stop talking to
the OTHER kids and focus on her own son's behavior only. Say, "You must
be right with your son at all times. Do not talk to our children or
have contact with them in any other way, deal only with your own son."
Those are the only conditions under which I'd let her stay. And I'd be
really really clear and blunt. Remember - you do not have to worry
about hurting her feelings - she isn't worrying about your children
being hurt.
She'll leave.
She'll say bad things about you to other people here and there.
You'll have such a nicer group to relax in and enjoy that you won't
care.
-pam
coyote's corner
True...these boys were so angry. They were out very early in the morning - sun up on some days. No one in the neighborhood was allowed to play with them. The parents, while not physically abusing them - are certainly guilty of abuse.
Janis
Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
<www.coyotescorner.com>
401-438-7678
Janis
Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
<www.coyotescorner.com>
401-438-7678
----- Original Message -----
From: Tia Leschke
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] What to do?
>
>Mom said "She has other teeth"
>"He didn't mean to break her tooth, he was just hitting her in the face."
>"It's not a big thing - she isn't a model or anything like that."
>"I've given him 5 minutes time out - it's over."
>ay yi yi. I want to run screaming from the room!!!!
>
>I'm so glad they moved. That kid is a psychopath.
But too bad for the people in his new neighbourhood. Yikes!
Tia
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In a message dated 10/8/03 1:38:30 AM, bdel99@... writes:
<< I think that Sandra was right in her post, she needs to be talked to
directly about this because I don't think that anything else will
work in this case. >>
The problem is that sometimes this is an inherited lack of social
cluefulness, and the mom might not understand even after a million words any better than
she understands right now.
<< It's becoming a safety issue for the other kids in
the group and by not talking to her in order to spare her feelings, I
am putting her first and my kids second...my wonderful husband
pointed this out to me last night ;)>>
Hugely true.
Smart husband!
Maybe if it turns out people are too afraid of an in-person exchange, a
letter could be composed from the group or some part of the group saying if she's
unwilling to see the problem she should keep him home for another year or two
until he's better able to hang out with other kids.
I've tried not to say "never again" with my kids or about other kids, but
"maybe when he's older," and it's turned out that many friendships which were
rough or rejectable years ago became reasonable and good later as one or both
matured. And a few which were good earlier didn't last because one matured or
calcified or got reactionary or whatever happens. But with older kids, it's
easier for them to see and decide what they don't want to mess with.
<< Of course, talking to her is
easier said than done. >>
If you want to write her a letter, I have some suggestions.
Run it by people who know her and her child so they can suggest additions.
Put it all in one package, rather than expecting there to be another pass.
Even if she doesn't change and hang out with you guys it will (WILL) improve her
interface with the next group she joins. No matter how much she might want to
deny the situation, the seeds will be planted for someday.
You could run the draft by here and we could help you smooth it, if you
wanted.
Make it so clean that you wouldn't be embarrassed if it ended up being
published in the local paper. The woman MIGHT spread it around, so make it tightly
and directly about her son and your concern for his future and the maintenance
of the current group, so that if she shows it around it would make her look
bad and you look good.
Sandra
<< I think that Sandra was right in her post, she needs to be talked to
directly about this because I don't think that anything else will
work in this case. >>
The problem is that sometimes this is an inherited lack of social
cluefulness, and the mom might not understand even after a million words any better than
she understands right now.
<< It's becoming a safety issue for the other kids in
the group and by not talking to her in order to spare her feelings, I
am putting her first and my kids second...my wonderful husband
pointed this out to me last night ;)>>
Hugely true.
Smart husband!
Maybe if it turns out people are too afraid of an in-person exchange, a
letter could be composed from the group or some part of the group saying if she's
unwilling to see the problem she should keep him home for another year or two
until he's better able to hang out with other kids.
I've tried not to say "never again" with my kids or about other kids, but
"maybe when he's older," and it's turned out that many friendships which were
rough or rejectable years ago became reasonable and good later as one or both
matured. And a few which were good earlier didn't last because one matured or
calcified or got reactionary or whatever happens. But with older kids, it's
easier for them to see and decide what they don't want to mess with.
<< Of course, talking to her is
easier said than done. >>
If you want to write her a letter, I have some suggestions.
Run it by people who know her and her child so they can suggest additions.
Put it all in one package, rather than expecting there to be another pass.
Even if she doesn't change and hang out with you guys it will (WILL) improve her
interface with the next group she joins. No matter how much she might want to
deny the situation, the seeds will be planted for someday.
You could run the draft by here and we could help you smooth it, if you
wanted.
Make it so clean that you wouldn't be embarrassed if it ended up being
published in the local paper. The woman MIGHT spread it around, so make it tightly
and directly about her son and your concern for his future and the maintenance
of the current group, so that if she shows it around it would make her look
bad and you look good.
Sandra
Nanci Kuykendall
>......with this boy...it won't work. All of theYikes!
>tools that I have armed Gavin with (walking
>away, finding someone else to play with, telling the
>person that it's not okay to hurt him, etc.) to get
>him out of a bad situation, have gotten him pounced
>on by this boy. If you ignore him or tell him that
>what he is doing is mean, he will attack you!!!!!
>The mom then focuses the attention on the attacked
>child and tells them what they did wrong and why he
>felt the need to be physical with them. Usually
>she blames it on him being excluded...He is one of
>those kids that kind of looks right through you when
>you are talking to him, and to be honest...he scares
>me too! One day he hit me with a stick to get my
>attention,
>Brandy...
It sounds to me like we have a kid with some serious
inability to understand morality and/or so much self
absorption that he thinks nothing of hurting everyone
around him to get his way. Mom is exacerbating the
problem by pandering to the little emperor and
justifying his behavior. This whole family needs some
intervention, but you unfortunately can't really do
anything about it. I agree that the best you can do
for them and yourselves is present her with your
obervations/concerns/feelings regaring both HER and
her son's behaviors and hope that when she storms off
in a huff, or goes sobbingly away (whatever her style
of martyrdom is) that maybe she will take some of your
lessons to heart after time has worn the sting away
from them.
For her son's sake and the rest of society's sake I
hope so. At 4 he is scary, what will he be at 14, at
24? There has to be something to check the snowballng
progress of a monster in the making or we all may pay
the price. When you shy from "hurting her feelings"
think about saving people from being victimized by
what this child could grow into. It's a public
service, honestly.
Nanci K.
[email protected]
Janis I can't agree with you more. I really believed the parents of the
children that we harassing pour son would do something but I too also got the same
"kids will be kids" from the parents, the principal, even the police. Shortly
before the kids hurt Chris we hired a lawyer to pursue our sons rights to a
peaceful education. Things got real bad. The school started to accuse me of
harassment, if Chris was out sick they tried to charge truancy and on and on and
on. I told them that if these kids didn't stop our son may get up enough
courage and deck em! But I was just told that he would be expelled from school.
Expelled for protecting himself?
<<Do not let that boy near your kid. I made the mistake of thinking that if a
parent was 'near-by' or dealing w/ it - there would be an improvement in the
situation - hence, Brianna has a broken tooth.
FYI - she's had two caps and a root canal - it's going to have to be replaced
with an implant (around here - we're talking $2,000 - now - never mind when
she's old enough to get one!)>>
I made that mistake and Christopher paid for it. I wouldn't let that boy near
that kid either. BTW, we sued the school, the board of Education and the city
afterwards and won. Christopher really wanted to donate the money to charity
so that's where it went. As for his injuries, his hearing has returned to
normal but his eyesight is still bad and he still has some loss of memory. I think
maybe that its more that he doesn't want to remember than can't. He's really
coming along good with wanting to be around teens again and even gets together
with 2 of them he knows once in a while but I can see it's still a fear he
has.
Kim
children that we harassing pour son would do something but I too also got the same
"kids will be kids" from the parents, the principal, even the police. Shortly
before the kids hurt Chris we hired a lawyer to pursue our sons rights to a
peaceful education. Things got real bad. The school started to accuse me of
harassment, if Chris was out sick they tried to charge truancy and on and on and
on. I told them that if these kids didn't stop our son may get up enough
courage and deck em! But I was just told that he would be expelled from school.
Expelled for protecting himself?
<<Do not let that boy near your kid. I made the mistake of thinking that if a
parent was 'near-by' or dealing w/ it - there would be an improvement in the
situation - hence, Brianna has a broken tooth.
FYI - she's had two caps and a root canal - it's going to have to be replaced
with an implant (around here - we're talking $2,000 - now - never mind when
she's old enough to get one!)>>
I made that mistake and Christopher paid for it. I wouldn't let that boy near
that kid either. BTW, we sued the school, the board of Education and the city
afterwards and won. Christopher really wanted to donate the money to charity
so that's where it went. As for his injuries, his hearing has returned to
normal but his eyesight is still bad and he still has some loss of memory. I think
maybe that its more that he doesn't want to remember than can't. He's really
coming along good with wanting to be around teens again and even gets together
with 2 of them he knows once in a while but I can see it's still a fear he
has.
Kim
aicitticia
Don't have much time tonight to give a lengthy post, but it *is* me
Joylyn :) and of course I don't mind that you used her name I use it
everyday. I don't feel that I *ever* articulate anything through e-
mail as I intend, but I try. Anyhow, I don't think that Chloe has a
problem being assertive. She has changed so much in this past year
that you would be shocked I'm sure. You are right; I don't hang
around people I don't have much in common with so she shouldn't
*have to* either. Brandy added some great clarifying commentary so I
won't go on and on. Basically I needed a sounding board and some
great feedback (which I believe I got).
We will have to update you all when we see them next and have a
little word with her. What did I just babble?? I mean...ah um...an
update on how we try to handle this situation will follow.
Whatever...I'm going to rest this glupity brain.
Ticia
Joylyn :) and of course I don't mind that you used her name I use it
everyday. I don't feel that I *ever* articulate anything through e-
mail as I intend, but I try. Anyhow, I don't think that Chloe has a
problem being assertive. She has changed so much in this past year
that you would be shocked I'm sure. You are right; I don't hang
around people I don't have much in common with so she shouldn't
*have to* either. Brandy added some great clarifying commentary so I
won't go on and on. Basically I needed a sounding board and some
great feedback (which I believe I got).
We will have to update you all when we see them next and have a
little word with her. What did I just babble?? I mean...ah um...an
update on how we try to handle this situation will follow.
Whatever...I'm going to rest this glupity brain.
Ticia
--- In [email protected], joylyn <joylyn@e...> wrote:
> Ticia
> Maybe I'm answering different because I know you and your
daughter.
> First, Chloe (am I going to get in trouble for using her name?)
doesn't
> have to play with anyone she doesn't want to play with. (ends in
> preposition, can't change it). She can choose her friends.
That's one
> of the joys of homeschooling. She can't be mean to him, but she
> shouldn't have to play with him. If she was in school she'd have
to
> "get along with everyone."
> > ps, when did you join this list? Did I know you were on it and
just
> forgot? Or have I completely lost my brain and you aren't the
same
> Ticia I thought you are/were?
>
>