hello from me ;-)
[email protected]
Firstly, I wanted you all to know that even though I haven't posted on here for soooo long, I have been reading your posts when I've had time. YOu are all fantastic inspiration for the sticky moments when things are hard work. I don't know many people locally who are as 'bookish but unschooling' as us, so it's a real tonic to read how you are all getting on day to day. THANK YOU!
Anyway, the main reason for my post is that I wanted to pick your brains about my eldest. He's 10yo & has been out of school for coming up to a year & a half now. On the whole things are going swimmingly.
The only fly in the ointment seems to be he's hesitant to do anything that takes a large dose of determination. He's happy to try anything, but if it doesn't come easily to him he gets frustrated & gives up. I'm not looking for suggestions for how to make him do anything; because that's his choice, but I'd like ideas for how to help him not get so frustrated so that he'll feel able to carry on trying until he gets where he wants to be. Having been in school seems to have given him a reluctance to 'fail' which hasn't worn off yet. We've talked about the idea that he's not failing, just hasn't succeeded yet. Part of the problem is that he sets himself really high goals, but doesn't seem to want to go through the learning curve to get there. Well I think I've waffled on for quite long enough now! Tell me your thoughts please.
Lynda
www.freerangekids.co.uk
I'd like to teach the world to sling...
Anyway, the main reason for my post is that I wanted to pick your brains about my eldest. He's 10yo & has been out of school for coming up to a year & a half now. On the whole things are going swimmingly.
The only fly in the ointment seems to be he's hesitant to do anything that takes a large dose of determination. He's happy to try anything, but if it doesn't come easily to him he gets frustrated & gives up. I'm not looking for suggestions for how to make him do anything; because that's his choice, but I'd like ideas for how to help him not get so frustrated so that he'll feel able to carry on trying until he gets where he wants to be. Having been in school seems to have given him a reluctance to 'fail' which hasn't worn off yet. We've talked about the idea that he's not failing, just hasn't succeeded yet. Part of the problem is that he sets himself really high goals, but doesn't seem to want to go through the learning curve to get there. Well I think I've waffled on for quite long enough now! Tell me your thoughts please.
Lynda
www.freerangekids.co.uk
I'd like to teach the world to sling...
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/19/2003 7:04:15 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
atwttmab@... writes:
The only fly in the ointment seems to be he's hesitant to do anything that
takes a large dose of determination. He's happy to try anything, but if it
doesn't come easily to him he gets frustrated & gives up.
Don't let it be a fly in the ointment.
Why can't he just do 2000 fun little things? They'll all eventually tie in
together as parts of his model of the universe.
-=-I'd like ideas for how to help him not get so frustrated so that he'll
feel able to carry on trying until he gets where he wants to be. -=-
Instead of helping you help him not to be frustrated, I'd rather help you not
press him to go past his point of frustration.
Trying something until it's not fun anymore is quite a success, if you stop
before the frustration comes. Pushing into frustration can turn the whole
thing from fun to failure.
-=-Having been in school seems to have given him a reluctance to 'fail' which
hasn't worn off yet.-=-
A year and a half isn't very long, and ten isn't very old.
He sets himself high goals like what?
If he has the goals without deadlines, he just hasn't gotten there Yet, and
that's fine.
I'd say discourage him from setting goals he can't reach for now, and just
play and have fun and do smaller things with you, and with other people!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
atwttmab@... writes:
The only fly in the ointment seems to be he's hesitant to do anything that
takes a large dose of determination. He's happy to try anything, but if it
doesn't come easily to him he gets frustrated & gives up.
Don't let it be a fly in the ointment.
Why can't he just do 2000 fun little things? They'll all eventually tie in
together as parts of his model of the universe.
-=-I'd like ideas for how to help him not get so frustrated so that he'll
feel able to carry on trying until he gets where he wants to be. -=-
Instead of helping you help him not to be frustrated, I'd rather help you not
press him to go past his point of frustration.
Trying something until it's not fun anymore is quite a success, if you stop
before the frustration comes. Pushing into frustration can turn the whole
thing from fun to failure.
-=-Having been in school seems to have given him a reluctance to 'fail' which
hasn't worn off yet.-=-
A year and a half isn't very long, and ten isn't very old.
He sets himself high goals like what?
If he has the goals without deadlines, he just hasn't gotten there Yet, and
that's fine.
I'd say discourage him from setting goals he can't reach for now, and just
play and have fun and do smaller things with you, and with other people!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I wrote:
The only fly in the ointment seems to be he's hesitant to do anything that
takes a large dose of determination. He's happy to try anything, but if it
doesn't come easily to him he gets frustrated & gives up.
Sandra replied:
Don't let it be a fly in the ointment.
Why can't he just do 2000 fun little things? They'll all eventually tie in
together as parts of his model of the universe.
Me:-=-I'd like ideas for how to help him not get so frustrated so that he'll
feel able to carry on trying until he gets where he wants to be. -=-
Sandra:Instead of helping you help him not to be frustrated, I'd rather help you not
press him to go past his point of frustration.
Trying something until it's not fun anymore is quite a success, if you stop
before the frustration comes. Pushing into frustration can turn the whole
thing from fun to failure.
Lynda:>>>He's the one who's pushing himself! I'd be happy for him to stop before he gets to that point & then come back (or not) some other time.
Me:-=-Having been in school seems to have given him a reluctance to 'fail' which
hasn't worn off yet.-=-
Sandra: A year and a half isn't very long, and ten isn't very old.
Me:>>> I know that for a fact! lol. He's only just starting to rediscover maths as someting that can be fun. He's left tables & division well alone, but enjoys drawing Koch snowflakes & the other day worked out how old he was in seconds in his head. He's starting to find out what bits of mathematics are useful/interesting to him & in those areas he seems more able to recognise when he's getting close to his frustration point & will put the ideas to one side for a while until something prompts him to come back to them.
Sandra: He sets himself high goals like what?
If he has the goals without deadlines, he just hasn't gotten there Yet, and
that's fine.
I'd say discourage him from setting goals he can't reach for now, and just
play and have fun and do smaller things with you, and with other people!
Sandra
Me: It not so much the goals themselves that are the problem, but his desire to get there right away, e.g. he wants to make LOTR figures but gets frustrated that he can't make them as detailed & intricate as a professionally produced piece. Yesterday we were looking at Japanese art & he decided to produce his own version of the great wave & Mt. Fuji. That ended in slamming down of pencils & getting really frustrated that he couldn't get the wave to look just the way he wanted it to look. He seems to see what other people, experts in their field, have produced and wants to be able to emulate them; but he doesn't seem to grasp that they probably didn't get it *right* first time. He's always thought big, IYSWIM, & I think I need a way to help him break his ideas into more managable chunks.
Now I have to go & serve icecream for lunch. ;-)
Lynda
www.freerangekids.co.uk
I'd like to teach the world to sling...
The only fly in the ointment seems to be he's hesitant to do anything that
takes a large dose of determination. He's happy to try anything, but if it
doesn't come easily to him he gets frustrated & gives up.
Sandra replied:
Don't let it be a fly in the ointment.
Why can't he just do 2000 fun little things? They'll all eventually tie in
together as parts of his model of the universe.
Me:-=-I'd like ideas for how to help him not get so frustrated so that he'll
feel able to carry on trying until he gets where he wants to be. -=-
Sandra:Instead of helping you help him not to be frustrated, I'd rather help you not
press him to go past his point of frustration.
Trying something until it's not fun anymore is quite a success, if you stop
before the frustration comes. Pushing into frustration can turn the whole
thing from fun to failure.
Lynda:>>>He's the one who's pushing himself! I'd be happy for him to stop before he gets to that point & then come back (or not) some other time.
Me:-=-Having been in school seems to have given him a reluctance to 'fail' which
hasn't worn off yet.-=-
Sandra: A year and a half isn't very long, and ten isn't very old.
Me:>>> I know that for a fact! lol. He's only just starting to rediscover maths as someting that can be fun. He's left tables & division well alone, but enjoys drawing Koch snowflakes & the other day worked out how old he was in seconds in his head. He's starting to find out what bits of mathematics are useful/interesting to him & in those areas he seems more able to recognise when he's getting close to his frustration point & will put the ideas to one side for a while until something prompts him to come back to them.
Sandra: He sets himself high goals like what?
If he has the goals without deadlines, he just hasn't gotten there Yet, and
that's fine.
I'd say discourage him from setting goals he can't reach for now, and just
play and have fun and do smaller things with you, and with other people!
Sandra
Me: It not so much the goals themselves that are the problem, but his desire to get there right away, e.g. he wants to make LOTR figures but gets frustrated that he can't make them as detailed & intricate as a professionally produced piece. Yesterday we were looking at Japanese art & he decided to produce his own version of the great wave & Mt. Fuji. That ended in slamming down of pencils & getting really frustrated that he couldn't get the wave to look just the way he wanted it to look. He seems to see what other people, experts in their field, have produced and wants to be able to emulate them; but he doesn't seem to grasp that they probably didn't get it *right* first time. He's always thought big, IYSWIM, & I think I need a way to help him break his ideas into more managable chunks.
Now I have to go & serve icecream for lunch. ;-)
Lynda
www.freerangekids.co.uk
I'd like to teach the world to sling...
Barbara Chase
>Me: It not so much the goals themselves that are the problem, but hisLynda,
>desire to get there right away <snip>
>That ended in slamming down of pencils & getting really frustrated that he
>couldn't get the wave to look just the way he wanted it to look. <snip>
>He's always thought big, IYSWIM, & I think I need a way to help him break
>his ideas into more managable chunks.
This sounds so much like my dd, who is 4.5. Your idea of breaking things
into manageable chunks is a great one. I haven't been tuned into her
frustration in this way yet, but I bet it will help.
One thing that has helped with respect to her frustrations over art is for
us to explore abstract art together. Somehow she can be more forgiving of
her own representation of a hat, for example, if she has seen that
"professional" artists purposefully make things not look right.
Oh, I happen to have an idea about the wave... I don't remember the title
of the book, but recently someone wrote a book about how the classic
artists used mirrors to exactly represent their drawings. This is also
something that I've done in art classes. To some it may seem like
cheating, but if you read how the classic artists used the techniques, then
you are just following in some very great footsteps. Anyway, the use of
mirrors would allow your son to sort of trace the wave, or other artwork.
Namaste
--bc--
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nellebelle
>>>>>> He seems to see what other people, experts in their field, have produced and wants to be able to emulate them; but he doesn't seem to grasp that they probably didn't get it *right* first time>>>>>>My youngest dd went through a similar thing with drawing. I made the effort to point out errors in picture books or other places. When you start looking, there are lots of mistakes in "finished" pieces! I vocalize, calmly, when I've made a mistake to help them realize that it is normal to not get everything perfect every time.
Mary Ellen
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CRU92/
Unschoolers in Tri-Cities
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>Or encourage him to see the intermediate goals that he might be able to
> I'd say discourage him from setting goals he can't reach for now, and just
> play and have fun and do smaller things with you, and with other people!
achieve and feel success about on the way to the bigger goals.
Tia
leschke@...
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where
there is no path and leave a trail."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Tia Leschke
>effort to point out errors in picture books or other places. When you start
> My youngest dd went through a similar thing with drawing. I made the
looking, there are lots of mistakes in "finished" pieces! I vocalize,
calmly, when I've made a mistake to help them realize that it is normal to
not get everything perfect every time.
Also some of the best art has come about because the artist made a mistake
and the fixing up of the mistake showed previously unseen possibilities to
the artist. I'm not sure how you'd go about finding examples of that to
show him.
Tia
leschke@...
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where
there is no path and leave a trail."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson