Marty writing what he can't read
[email protected]
I hope I haven't already told you folks this story, but if so the newer
listmembers can read it. I'm cleaning out my mailbox, though, and didn't
want it to go untold.
April 24. Marty (14) came in and was describing some exciting detail of one
of the games he's was designing, and read this:
"If an antagonist is assigned a protagonist you can spend one conviction to
reverse the assignment" but he mispronounced "antagonist." He knew he was,
he was stumbling, and I said it for him and he said "right!" and went on.
That's the whole story. <g> Thanks for reading.
The reason I saved it is that it seemed a peek into Marty's writing and
reading levels.
He knows the word visually, but he hadn't heard it so much out in the air. I
think that's a point at which the odd kind of reading people do when they get
fast is proven. There's an English language past sounding out words, in a
way. There's that total reading for comprehension, not for the art of it.
And that's the way I read almost always, which is probably why poetry is
generally irritating to me. I don't turn the words back into sound when I
read. I know how, but that's another kind of slow (and kind of irritating
for me, honestly) reading. I don't think this is such a great thing but
it's highly prized in school and testing situations.
So for good or ill, I saw a flash of it in Marty mispronouncing a word he had
himself dredged up, written down, and used correctly.
Furthermore, I didn't know those terms "antagonist and protagonist" when I
was his age, and I was it on a stick at my school, the #1 student and I had
an ID card to prove it. (Weird but true, they numbered our IDs in the order
of our test scores on some special test for some special program they were
trying at our school, and they "tracked us," and the top group had special
color school IDs that said "the go-go group" and although I don't remember
any special privileges that went with it, I remember thinking even then that
it was a kind of social and interpersonal mistake for them to have done that.)
So without testing him, there was a snapshot moment where I could compare him
to other fixed marks. It might be a month or many years before one comes
along on its own again, and it's not important, but I thought it was
interesting in a "how do you know what your kids are learning" kind of way.
Sandra
listmembers can read it. I'm cleaning out my mailbox, though, and didn't
want it to go untold.
April 24. Marty (14) came in and was describing some exciting detail of one
of the games he's was designing, and read this:
"If an antagonist is assigned a protagonist you can spend one conviction to
reverse the assignment" but he mispronounced "antagonist." He knew he was,
he was stumbling, and I said it for him and he said "right!" and went on.
That's the whole story. <g> Thanks for reading.
The reason I saved it is that it seemed a peek into Marty's writing and
reading levels.
He knows the word visually, but he hadn't heard it so much out in the air. I
think that's a point at which the odd kind of reading people do when they get
fast is proven. There's an English language past sounding out words, in a
way. There's that total reading for comprehension, not for the art of it.
And that's the way I read almost always, which is probably why poetry is
generally irritating to me. I don't turn the words back into sound when I
read. I know how, but that's another kind of slow (and kind of irritating
for me, honestly) reading. I don't think this is such a great thing but
it's highly prized in school and testing situations.
So for good or ill, I saw a flash of it in Marty mispronouncing a word he had
himself dredged up, written down, and used correctly.
Furthermore, I didn't know those terms "antagonist and protagonist" when I
was his age, and I was it on a stick at my school, the #1 student and I had
an ID card to prove it. (Weird but true, they numbered our IDs in the order
of our test scores on some special test for some special program they were
trying at our school, and they "tracked us," and the top group had special
color school IDs that said "the go-go group" and although I don't remember
any special privileges that went with it, I remember thinking even then that
it was a kind of social and interpersonal mistake for them to have done that.)
So without testing him, there was a snapshot moment where I could compare him
to other fixed marks. It might be a month or many years before one comes
along on its own again, and it's not important, but I thought it was
interesting in a "how do you know what your kids are learning" kind of way.
Sandra
Tia Leschke
> He knows the word visually, but he hadn't heard it so much out in the air.I
> think that's a point at which the odd kind of reading people do when theyget
> fast is proven. There's an English language past sounding out words, in aSo *that's* why I don't like reading poetry. I keep skimming to get to the
> way. There's that total reading for comprehension, not for the art of it.
> And that's the way I read almost always, which is probably why poetry is
> generally irritating to me. I don't turn the words back into sound when I
> read. I know how, but that's another kind of slow (and kind of irritating
> for me, honestly) reading. I don't think this is such a great thing but
> it's highly prized in school and testing situations.
point or find out what's going to happen. I guess if I decide I want to
read poetry, the thing to do would be to read it aloud.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Betsy
** There's that total reading for comprehension, not for the art of it.
And that's the way I read almost always...**
That reminds me -- about Reading -- I had a bad day at the park
yesterday with the more structured (than me) homeschoolers. I've spent
so much time here in the chatty back porch of the unschoolers haven that
I forget how outnumbered we are. I forget how "extreme" my views are
and how "silly" I think their views are.
We're just starting up a small homeschooling group and most of the other
kids (by coincidence) are about 12 years old, while my son is 9. Most
of the other mom's just took their kids out of public or private school
this year, while I was unschooling from the get go. There's A LOT of
curriculum talk. It seems to be pretty consistent that all of these
(four) 12 year olds are ahead of "grade level" in reading, about on
level in math, and "behind" in writing. Every one of the mom's has
praised her child's advanced reading abilities, and yet they all seem to
use reading curriculum. Curriculum! For reading! For older kids who
read quite well! This is totally perplexing to me.
I never felt like a weirdo in my old homeschooling group, but I do now.
Moving stinks!
:::: end of self-pitying diatribe ::::
Betsy
And that's the way I read almost always...**
That reminds me -- about Reading -- I had a bad day at the park
yesterday with the more structured (than me) homeschoolers. I've spent
so much time here in the chatty back porch of the unschoolers haven that
I forget how outnumbered we are. I forget how "extreme" my views are
and how "silly" I think their views are.
We're just starting up a small homeschooling group and most of the other
kids (by coincidence) are about 12 years old, while my son is 9. Most
of the other mom's just took their kids out of public or private school
this year, while I was unschooling from the get go. There's A LOT of
curriculum talk. It seems to be pretty consistent that all of these
(four) 12 year olds are ahead of "grade level" in reading, about on
level in math, and "behind" in writing. Every one of the mom's has
praised her child's advanced reading abilities, and yet they all seem to
use reading curriculum. Curriculum! For reading! For older kids who
read quite well! This is totally perplexing to me.
I never felt like a weirdo in my old homeschooling group, but I do now.
Moving stinks!
:::: end of self-pitying diatribe ::::
Betsy
Betsy
**and the top group had special
color school IDs that said "the go-go group"**
Not even matching boots? <g>
Betsy
color school IDs that said "the go-go group"**
Not even matching boots? <g>
Betsy
Pamela Sorooshian
On Friday, May 9, 2003, at 10:04 AM, Tia Leschke wrote:
enough to read poetry for myself, either. And I don't listen to myself
when I read out loud - I drift away and go on autopilot. Once I've
heard poetry read aloud, if I like it, I can read it for myself after
that. I can read Shakespeare, for example, and REALLY enjoy what I'm
reading - but I only developed that ability AFTER my family was
involved with a Shakespeare theater group for a couple of years and I
had heard a LOT of it out loud.
-pam
> I guess if I decide I want toGet someone who loves it to read it to you. I can't slow my eyes down
> read poetry, the thing to do would be to read it aloud.
enough to read poetry for myself, either. And I don't listen to myself
when I read out loud - I drift away and go on autopilot. Once I've
heard poetry read aloud, if I like it, I can read it for myself after
that. I can read Shakespeare, for example, and REALLY enjoy what I'm
reading - but I only developed that ability AFTER my family was
involved with a Shakespeare theater group for a couple of years and I
had heard a LOT of it out loud.
-pam
Tia Leschke
>That's what I do when I listen to someone else read poetry. I think for me,
> Get someone who loves it to read it to you. I can't slow my eyes down
> enough to read poetry for myself, either. And I don't listen to myself
> when I read out loud - I drift away and go on autopilot.
reading out loud, or even reading *as if* I'm reading out loud would work
better.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/9/03 11:03:12 AM, ecsamhill@... writes:
<< Not even matching boots? <g> >>
We should have!!
Another thing in those days. We had been tracked in 7th and 8th grade too,
and I was used to the same kids, most of whom I had already been a
self-selected subculture from elementary and outside school. So I stretch
and yawn and show up for the first day of 9th grade, 1st period, English
class, and English was the one class in which the tracking was perfect--the
base/real class.
I had never seen 2/3 of those kids. ALL new. FRESH SOCIAL MEAT FOR ME!!
My best friend had moved to Colorado, so soon I had a new friend, and I had a
boyfriend from that group soon, and really enjoyed the new stimuli, life
stories, friends-of-friends. It was the safest biggest change I could have
had and still be in the same school!
Some of you already figured out where a new batch of 9th graders would come
from, huh?
The local Catholic school.
Their test scores were higher than our school's, so when they folded in their
test scores with ours, nearly 20 of our former top class were cut down to 2nd
tier.
Not a pro-school story by any means, just a snapshot moment.
And it was 1967, so we SHOULD have had go-go boots, but just the girls.
Sandra
<< Not even matching boots? <g> >>
We should have!!
Another thing in those days. We had been tracked in 7th and 8th grade too,
and I was used to the same kids, most of whom I had already been a
self-selected subculture from elementary and outside school. So I stretch
and yawn and show up for the first day of 9th grade, 1st period, English
class, and English was the one class in which the tracking was perfect--the
base/real class.
I had never seen 2/3 of those kids. ALL new. FRESH SOCIAL MEAT FOR ME!!
My best friend had moved to Colorado, so soon I had a new friend, and I had a
boyfriend from that group soon, and really enjoyed the new stimuli, life
stories, friends-of-friends. It was the safest biggest change I could have
had and still be in the same school!
Some of you already figured out where a new batch of 9th graders would come
from, huh?
The local Catholic school.
Their test scores were higher than our school's, so when they folded in their
test scores with ours, nearly 20 of our former top class were cut down to 2nd
tier.
Not a pro-school story by any means, just a snapshot moment.
And it was 1967, so we SHOULD have had go-go boots, but just the girls.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/9/03 11:39:03 AM, leschke@... writes:
<< So *that's* why I don't like reading poetry. I keep skimming to get to the
point or find out what's going to happen. I guess if I decide I want to
read poetry, the thing to do would be to read it aloud. >>
EXACTLY.
For some reason there often IS no point in some of those poems. They just
thought the words "Sounded" good. What's THAT!? <bwg>
Sandra
<< So *that's* why I don't like reading poetry. I keep skimming to get to the
point or find out what's going to happen. I guess if I decide I want to
read poetry, the thing to do would be to read it aloud. >>
EXACTLY.
For some reason there often IS no point in some of those poems. They just
thought the words "Sounded" good. What's THAT!? <bwg>
Sandra
joanna514
--- In [email protected], Tia Leschke <leschke@s...>
wrote:
Joanna
wrote:
>That's the exact thought I had after reading Sandra's post! :-D
>>
> So *that's* why I don't like reading poetry. >
Joanna
Fetteroll
on 5/9/03 5:19 PM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:
sounded good and then picked whatever interpretation people came up with
they liked best and agreed that's what they were trying to say ;-)
Don't know if it's true that's what they actually did, but it's what he said
they did!
Joyce
> For some reason there often IS no point in some of those poems. They justIn an interview Paul McCartney said they just put together words that
> thought the words "Sounded" good. What's THAT!? <bwg>
sounded good and then picked whatever interpretation people came up with
they liked best and agreed that's what they were trying to say ;-)
Don't know if it's true that's what they actually did, but it's what he said
they did!
Joyce
Deborah Lewis
***In an interview Paul McCartney said they just put together words that
sounded good and then picked whatever interpretation people came up with
they liked best and agreed that's what they were trying to say ;-)***
In some Writing/Poetry class in high school, I think freshman year, we
had to write a poem.
I did a Dylan Thomas-esque thing, putting words together unusually and
arranging them for sound alone.
There was no content, it didn't mean anything, it was my idea of a joke
and I wrote it in five minutes.
The teacher called my parents to tell them I had some great genius and I
needed to meet her father, a university professor who could help my gift
evolve.
It was a joke and she totally missed it. It was a poem about nothing.
Whatever she thought she saw wasn't there. I didn't have any respect
for her after that.
And I've often wondered how many great poets just sat down and wrote any
damn thing that came to mind, and laughed about it later. <g>
I love poetry. I love that sound, and poetry is noisy, swirly in my
head. I love Dylan Thomas especially for that reason, and the poor guy
was tanked twenty three hours a day.
My husband writes great magnetic refrigerator poetry, in the (x-rated)
spirit of Allen Ginsberg. <g>
Deb L
sounded good and then picked whatever interpretation people came up with
they liked best and agreed that's what they were trying to say ;-)***
In some Writing/Poetry class in high school, I think freshman year, we
had to write a poem.
I did a Dylan Thomas-esque thing, putting words together unusually and
arranging them for sound alone.
There was no content, it didn't mean anything, it was my idea of a joke
and I wrote it in five minutes.
The teacher called my parents to tell them I had some great genius and I
needed to meet her father, a university professor who could help my gift
evolve.
It was a joke and she totally missed it. It was a poem about nothing.
Whatever she thought she saw wasn't there. I didn't have any respect
for her after that.
And I've often wondered how many great poets just sat down and wrote any
damn thing that came to mind, and laughed about it later. <g>
I love poetry. I love that sound, and poetry is noisy, swirly in my
head. I love Dylan Thomas especially for that reason, and the poor guy
was tanked twenty three hours a day.
My husband writes great magnetic refrigerator poetry, in the (x-rated)
spirit of Allen Ginsberg. <g>
Deb L
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/10/03 8:37:58 AM, ddzimlew@... writes:
<< It was a joke and she totally missed it. It was a poem about nothing.
Whatever she thought she saw wasn't there. I didn't have any respect
for her after that. >>
The Emperor's New Clothes. Your teacher found them beautiful!
So many people express awe when they're actually baffled.
The Emperor's New Clothes is one story that too few people have heard or read
and fewer still really think about. Probably most of them just read it
check the time to see how they're doing on reading speed, glad to have
finished another task, and think "What a great story!" (because they're
baffled).
Sandra
<< It was a joke and she totally missed it. It was a poem about nothing.
Whatever she thought she saw wasn't there. I didn't have any respect
for her after that. >>
The Emperor's New Clothes. Your teacher found them beautiful!
So many people express awe when they're actually baffled.
The Emperor's New Clothes is one story that too few people have heard or read
and fewer still really think about. Probably most of them just read it
check the time to see how they're doing on reading speed, glad to have
finished another task, and think "What a great story!" (because they're
baffled).
Sandra
Betsy
**The Emperor's New Clothes is one story that too few people have heard
or read
and fewer still really think about. **
I remember puzzling "why would grown-ups do that?" Only the child's
behavior at the end of the story made any sense to me.
When I was a kid, I couldn't see through anything but a kid's eyes. (I
had been raised by adults that were mostly honest, so I expected honesty
from adults.) I couldn't grasp why anyone in the story would delude
themselves, or attempt to delude others about the clothes in such away.
(I understood the con men, but not the "yes men".)
But now, as an analogy, the story makes perfect sense. It represents
the many truisms in our culture that are taken at face value and never
examined too carefully. The moral of that story really works for our
educational instutions, our parenting rules, and some of our most
strongly rooted scientific theoretical models.
Betsy
PS Do you have any Emperor's New Clothes links on your website? A
collection of unschooling parables sounds like a neat thing.
or read
and fewer still really think about. **
I remember puzzling "why would grown-ups do that?" Only the child's
behavior at the end of the story made any sense to me.
When I was a kid, I couldn't see through anything but a kid's eyes. (I
had been raised by adults that were mostly honest, so I expected honesty
from adults.) I couldn't grasp why anyone in the story would delude
themselves, or attempt to delude others about the clothes in such away.
(I understood the con men, but not the "yes men".)
But now, as an analogy, the story makes perfect sense. It represents
the many truisms in our culture that are taken at face value and never
examined too carefully. The moral of that story really works for our
educational instutions, our parenting rules, and some of our most
strongly rooted scientific theoretical models.
Betsy
PS Do you have any Emperor's New Clothes links on your website? A
collection of unschooling parables sounds like a neat thing.
nellebelle
I was just reading On The Road (Kerouac) for my book club (which I love, a great group of women, wouldn't miss it!).
I didn't much like the book overall, but there were parts that his wording was just beautiful. The kind that made me stop and read one sentence over several times because it just sounded good!
As far as the basic story of On the Road, they were mostly high most of the time.
Mary Ellen
----- snip----- I love poetry. I love that sound, and poetry is noisy, swirly in my
head. I love Dylan Thomas especially for that reason, and the poor guy
was tanked twenty three hours a day.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I didn't much like the book overall, but there were parts that his wording was just beautiful. The kind that made me stop and read one sentence over several times because it just sounded good!
As far as the basic story of On the Road, they were mostly high most of the time.
Mary Ellen
----- snip----- I love poetry. I love that sound, and poetry is noisy, swirly in my
head. I love Dylan Thomas especially for that reason, and the poor guy
was tanked twenty three hours a day.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/10/2003 9:51:09 AM Central Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
But Will heard a reference in a Bare Naked Ladies song last week, and he got
it.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> The Emperor's New Clothes is one story that too few people have heard orMy husband had never heard of it.
> read
> and fewer still really think about.
But Will heard a reference in a Bare Naked Ladies song last week, and he got
it.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]