[AlwaysLearning]Overheard
[email protected]
I took my sons to a play yesterday and there was a school class sitting
behind us. Before the play the teacher was asking them questions. 1st- What
do you like best about school: (one answer) "pay day". 2nd question- What
do you like least about school: (one answer) "having to pay money when I am
bad".
First off how sad. Second when did they start using a paycheck and pay
punishment in school? Or is this just speaking figuratively, like they
aren't using real money? I never got paid. LOL. Couldn't believe this.
After the play my son asked "Do they have to give the school their own
money?"
I didn't have an answer. I just said it sounded like it. And those children
didn't sound like they enjoyed it much. But that maybe we weren't hearing
the whole story either. These were about 6 or 7 year olds. Not sure what
grade that would be.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
behind us. Before the play the teacher was asking them questions. 1st- What
do you like best about school: (one answer) "pay day". 2nd question- What
do you like least about school: (one answer) "having to pay money when I am
bad".
First off how sad. Second when did they start using a paycheck and pay
punishment in school? Or is this just speaking figuratively, like they
aren't using real money? I never got paid. LOL. Couldn't believe this.
After the play my son asked "Do they have to give the school their own
money?"
I didn't have an answer. I just said it sounded like it. And those children
didn't sound like they enjoyed it much. But that maybe we weren't hearing
the whole story either. These were about 6 or 7 year olds. Not sure what
grade that would be.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nellebelle
Can't you see that they are learning one of life's most important lessons? Here it is: Spend most of your life doing things you don't really want to be doing, because you will get paid to do it!
My daughter's schooled friend (age 9) recently told us that she has agreed to read more books because "she is capable of reading more than she is reading now". She also knows that "school is her job".
Schools are so full of incentives these days. The kids around here are wearing necklaces with plastic books. They earn a plastic book each time they meet certain reading goals. And it is sad, because most parents think this is a good thing!
Mary Ellen
hoping that nobody thinks I agree with the above! (except the part about it being sad. I do agree with that!)
----- snip-----
Second when did they start using a paycheck and pay
punishment in school?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My daughter's schooled friend (age 9) recently told us that she has agreed to read more books because "she is capable of reading more than she is reading now". She also knows that "school is her job".
Schools are so full of incentives these days. The kids around here are wearing necklaces with plastic books. They earn a plastic book each time they meet certain reading goals. And it is sad, because most parents think this is a good thing!
Mary Ellen
hoping that nobody thinks I agree with the above! (except the part about it being sad. I do agree with that!)
----- snip-----
Second when did they start using a paycheck and pay
punishment in school?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/19/03 6:53:29 AM Pacific Standard Time, genant2@...
writes:
Yes it is very sad, When the twins attended ps, they had them picking up
trash in exchange for these pink tickets. The trash was everywhere from the
school grounds themselves to the park that connected to it. These tickets
earned them a "chance" to win a pencil from the principal. So even after said
trash was picked up, that did not earn them the pencil, but rather put them
in a "lottery" for said writing instrument. The twins were in first grade at
that time. They were 6. When DH & I found out, we flipped. Apparently no
other parents had a problem with this idea.
I was shocked and sickened, but what was worse is that my kids were made to
feel bad that their parents wouldn't allow them to participate. We went to
the school so that our "issues" could be be addressed face to face since my
initial phone call to the teacher was not enough. Perhaps no one had ever
thought of these issues because the kids are made to feel that this free
labor is somehow connected to having "pirde" in their school. I argued that
first: Don't you have paid custodians that should have "pride" in their jobs,
therefore, such trash should not exist in our childrens presence? If one
wants to learn pride from cleanliness, one should teach a child to throw
their trash in the can. Next on my list, safety: This park is a known hangout
for teens and has also been known to have both used condoms and used syringes
on the ground. Not that I would have been happy with unused condoms or
syringes. In the scheme of safety, communicable deseases, sometimes life
threatening and always life altering, had not even been considered. You know
what their response was??? The kids can wear gloves if they want. What???? I
must have looked absolutely deranged because my kids and hubby both turned
and said we should leave cuz mommy is gonna go off. Huh, that's when the
gloves came off and to this day I'm shocked that no explicitives came spewing
out of my mouth. In the nicest voice I told them that they (Oak Park
Elementary and it's staff) made me physically ill that they would utilize the
labor of children without wage on the hopes of winning a pencil and although
we appreciate the assistance of the school in purchasing writing insturments,
I was more than capable of buying them whatever pencils they wanted. All the
while, DH is guiding me out by the hand.
To this day my girls bring this event up, because of course we had to have a
big family discussion when we got home. Here they were 6 years old and
brainwashed to pick up trash or feel bad about it. One neighbor was shocked
at what my response was, and thought I was not being environmentally
conscious. We didn't speak for a year after that. Perhaps I have not made
that part clear though, we are environmentally concsious and do our best to
recycle, etc. but the environment was not my concern in this argument. Sadly
to say, this was only the first in many battles we endured before I had the
wits to yank them out of school. I'll always feel guilty about that.
Rhonda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> First off how sad. Second when did they start using a paycheck and payPam,
> punishment in school? Or is this just speaking figuratively, like they
> aren't using real money?
Yes it is very sad, When the twins attended ps, they had them picking up
trash in exchange for these pink tickets. The trash was everywhere from the
school grounds themselves to the park that connected to it. These tickets
earned them a "chance" to win a pencil from the principal. So even after said
trash was picked up, that did not earn them the pencil, but rather put them
in a "lottery" for said writing instrument. The twins were in first grade at
that time. They were 6. When DH & I found out, we flipped. Apparently no
other parents had a problem with this idea.
I was shocked and sickened, but what was worse is that my kids were made to
feel bad that their parents wouldn't allow them to participate. We went to
the school so that our "issues" could be be addressed face to face since my
initial phone call to the teacher was not enough. Perhaps no one had ever
thought of these issues because the kids are made to feel that this free
labor is somehow connected to having "pirde" in their school. I argued that
first: Don't you have paid custodians that should have "pride" in their jobs,
therefore, such trash should not exist in our childrens presence? If one
wants to learn pride from cleanliness, one should teach a child to throw
their trash in the can. Next on my list, safety: This park is a known hangout
for teens and has also been known to have both used condoms and used syringes
on the ground. Not that I would have been happy with unused condoms or
syringes. In the scheme of safety, communicable deseases, sometimes life
threatening and always life altering, had not even been considered. You know
what their response was??? The kids can wear gloves if they want. What???? I
must have looked absolutely deranged because my kids and hubby both turned
and said we should leave cuz mommy is gonna go off. Huh, that's when the
gloves came off and to this day I'm shocked that no explicitives came spewing
out of my mouth. In the nicest voice I told them that they (Oak Park
Elementary and it's staff) made me physically ill that they would utilize the
labor of children without wage on the hopes of winning a pencil and although
we appreciate the assistance of the school in purchasing writing insturments,
I was more than capable of buying them whatever pencils they wanted. All the
while, DH is guiding me out by the hand.
To this day my girls bring this event up, because of course we had to have a
big family discussion when we got home. Here they were 6 years old and
brainwashed to pick up trash or feel bad about it. One neighbor was shocked
at what my response was, and thought I was not being environmentally
conscious. We didn't speak for a year after that. Perhaps I have not made
that part clear though, we are environmentally concsious and do our best to
recycle, etc. but the environment was not my concern in this argument. Sadly
to say, this was only the first in many battles we endured before I had the
wits to yank them out of school. I'll always feel guilty about that.
Rhonda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Wooton
on 3/19/03 7:51 AM, rjhill241@... at rjhill241@... wrote:
Perhaps the school is imitating -- in a very limited way -- Japanese
schools, in which " Every day the students also clean the rooms, halls,
toilets, and yards of their own school. "
http://agassizsd.mb.ca/centennial/japanschl.htm
Do you object to the school requiring the students to pick up trash, or to
the token reward for doing so? There is hardly any "pride" involved if
you're being paid a token, IMO. (I'd have to agree that picking up trash in
a public park as part of school is crazy; safety should come first.)
Too bad "Punished By Rewards" isn't required reading for the teachers
passing out the tokens for reading ;-) That might be too large a book to
wear around the neck, though.
http://www.ascd.org/readingroom/edlead/9509/kohn.html (an interview with
Alfie Kohn I'm enjoying reading right now...)
Nancy
Perhaps the school is imitating -- in a very limited way -- Japanese
schools, in which " Every day the students also clean the rooms, halls,
toilets, and yards of their own school. "
http://agassizsd.mb.ca/centennial/japanschl.htm
Do you object to the school requiring the students to pick up trash, or to
the token reward for doing so? There is hardly any "pride" involved if
you're being paid a token, IMO. (I'd have to agree that picking up trash in
a public park as part of school is crazy; safety should come first.)
Too bad "Punished By Rewards" isn't required reading for the teachers
passing out the tokens for reading ;-) That might be too large a book to
wear around the neck, though.
http://www.ascd.org/readingroom/edlead/9509/kohn.html (an interview with
Alfie Kohn I'm enjoying reading right now...)
Nancy
> In a message dated 3/19/03 6:53:29 AM Pacific Standard Time, genant2@...
> writes:
>
>> First off how sad. Second when did they start using a paycheck and pay
>> punishment in school? Or is this just speaking figuratively, like they
>> aren't using real money?
>
> Pam,
>
> Yes it is very sad, When the twins attended ps, they had them picking up
> trash in exchange for these pink tickets. The trash was everywhere from the
> school grounds themselves to the park that connected to it. These tickets
> earned them a "chance" to win a pencil from the principal. So even after said
> trash was picked up, that did not earn them the pencil, but rather put them
> in a "lottery" for said writing instrument. The twins were in first grade at
> that time. They were 6. When DH & I found out, we flipped. Apparently no
> other parents had a problem with this idea.
>
> I was shocked and sickened, but what was worse is that my kids were made to
> feel bad that their parents wouldn't allow them to participate. We went to
> the school so that our "issues" could be be addressed face to face since my
> initial phone call to the teacher was not enough. Perhaps no one had ever
> thought of these issues because the kids are made to feel that this free
> labor is somehow connected to having "pirde" in their school. I argued that
> first: Don't you have paid custodians that should have "pride" in their jobs,
> therefore, such trash should not exist in our childrens presence? If one
> wants to learn pride from cleanliness, one should teach a child to throw
> their trash in the can. Next on my list, safety: This park is a known hangout
> for teens and has also been known to have both used condoms and used syringes
> on the ground. Not that I would have been happy with unused condoms or
> syringes. In the scheme of safety, communicable deseases, sometimes life
> threatening and always life altering, had not even been considered. You know
> what their response was??? The kids can wear gloves if they want. What???? I
> must have looked absolutely deranged because my kids and hubby both turned
> and said we should leave cuz mommy is gonna go off. Huh, that's when the
> gloves came off and to this day I'm shocked that no explicitives came spewing
> out of my mouth. In the nicest voice I told them that they (Oak Park
> Elementary and it's staff) made me physically ill that they would utilize the
> labor of children without wage on the hopes of winning a pencil and although
> we appreciate the assistance of the school in purchasing writing insturments,
> I was more than capable of buying them whatever pencils they wanted. All the
> while, DH is guiding me out by the hand.
>
> To this day my girls bring this event up, because of course we had to have a
> big family discussion when we got home. Here they were 6 years old and
> brainwashed to pick up trash or feel bad about it. One neighbor was shocked
> at what my response was, and thought I was not being environmentally
> conscious. We didn't speak for a year after that. Perhaps I have not made
> that part clear though, we are environmentally concsious and do our best to
> recycle, etc. but the environment was not my concern in this argument. Sadly
> to say, this was only the first in many battles we endured before I had the
> wits to yank them out of school. I'll always feel guilty about that.
>
> Rhonda
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/19/03 8:39:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,
ikonstitcher@... writes:
me would signify more teamwork for the sake of ones immediate environment,
but rather the cleaning-up of crap that the school custodian is responsible
for. But my primary concern was their safety or lack thereof; note that the
teachers response was the choice of the kids to wear gloves if they wanted. I
mean safety wise, shouldn't they have worn gloves irregardless of choice?
Also realize that I am talking about public school and not the choices
children make while unschooled.
Rhonda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ikonstitcher@... writes:
> Do you object to the school requiring the students to pick up trash, or toI objected to both. This was not the cleaning of their own classroom which to
> the token reward for doing so?
me would signify more teamwork for the sake of ones immediate environment,
but rather the cleaning-up of crap that the school custodian is responsible
for. But my primary concern was their safety or lack thereof; note that the
teachers response was the choice of the kids to wear gloves if they wanted. I
mean safety wise, shouldn't they have worn gloves irregardless of choice?
Also realize that I am talking about public school and not the choices
children make while unschooled.
Rhonda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 09:50:13 EST genant2@... writes:
paid and fined with Vista Bucks, or some such thing, and they coud start
checking accounts and earn interest, and some of the kids had "jobs" as
tellers (and also got paid "Vista Bucks", and each class made some sort
of thing and sold it on a certain day each quarter, and the kids would go
around and buy stuff - cookies were always popular, but some groups made
crafts...
There's a name for the whole concept in educational circles, but I forget
it.
Dar
> First off how sad. Second when did they start using a paycheck andI student taught at a school that had a whole economy going. The kids got
> pay
> punishment in school? Or is this just speaking figuratively, like
> they
> aren't using real money? I never got paid. LOL. Couldn't believe
> this.
> After the play my son asked "Do they have to give the school their
> own
> money?"
>
paid and fined with Vista Bucks, or some such thing, and they coud start
checking accounts and earn interest, and some of the kids had "jobs" as
tellers (and also got paid "Vista Bucks", and each class made some sort
of thing and sold it on a certain day each quarter, and the kids would go
around and buy stuff - cookies were always popular, but some groups made
crafts...
There's a name for the whole concept in educational circles, but I forget
it.
Dar
Nancy Wooton
on 3/19/03 10:50 AM, freeform@... at freeform@... wrote:
If you want to know more (shudder) see
http://www.lsc.k12.in.us/earhart/ahlersmeyer/Token_Economy.html
Nancy, too quick on the Google.
> There's a name for the whole concept in educational circles, but I forgetToken economy.
> it.
If you want to know more (shudder) see
http://www.lsc.k12.in.us/earhart/ahlersmeyer/Token_Economy.html
Nancy, too quick on the Google.
[email protected]
On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 10:53:59 -0800 Nancy Wooton <ikonstitcher@...>
writes:
special ed, and behavioralism and token economies are so big in that
arena, especially for kids with behavioral/emotional problems labels. You
can imagine the hullabaloo when I planned to structure my classroom
without levels or a token economy - big problems, and I did end up having
to give in to some degree :-/
This is the page for the school where I student taught - I guess
"micro-society" is the term they use. It wasn't a bad school, as school
go - a lot of their ideas were good, and I was impressed at how much
freedom some of the tecahers gave the studets within the classroom
setting.
http://www.creighton.k12.az.us/montevista/vistaville/index.html
I had forgotten the post office, that *was* pretty neat - you could pass
notes to kids in other classes, and someone would even deliver them for
you!
Dar
writes:
> on 3/19/03 10:50 AM, freeform@... at freeform@... wrote:I guess it's a kind of token conomy, but there was more to it. I taught
>
> > There's a name for the whole concept in educational circles, but I
> forget
> > it.
>
> Token economy.
special ed, and behavioralism and token economies are so big in that
arena, especially for kids with behavioral/emotional problems labels. You
can imagine the hullabaloo when I planned to structure my classroom
without levels or a token economy - big problems, and I did end up having
to give in to some degree :-/
>That's just way too icky... poor kids!
> If you want to know more (shudder) see
>
> http://www.lsc.k12.in.us/earhart/ahlersmeyer/Token_Economy.html
>
>
This is the page for the school where I student taught - I guess
"micro-society" is the term they use. It wasn't a bad school, as school
go - a lot of their ideas were good, and I was impressed at how much
freedom some of the tecahers gave the studets within the classroom
setting.
http://www.creighton.k12.az.us/montevista/vistaville/index.html
I had forgotten the post office, that *was* pretty neat - you could pass
notes to kids in other classes, and someone would even deliver them for
you!
Dar
Lucie Caunter
Sounds like training in consumerism...
Lucie
freeform@... wrote:
Lucie
freeform@... wrote:
>On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 09:50:13 EST genant2@... writes:[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>>First off how sad. Second when did they start using a paycheck and
>>pay
>>punishment in school? Or is this just speaking figuratively, like
>>they
>>aren't using real money? I never got paid. LOL. Couldn't believe
>>this.
>>After the play my son asked "Do they have to give the school their
>>own
>>money?"
>>
>>
>>
>
>I student taught at a school that had a whole economy going. The kids got
>paid and fined with Vista Bucks, or some such thing, and they coud start
>checking accounts and earn interest, and some of the kids had "jobs" as
>tellers (and also got paid "Vista Bucks", and each class made some sort
>of thing and sold it on a certain day each quarter, and the kids would go
>around and buy stuff - cookies were always popular, but some groups made
>crafts...
>
>There's a name for the whole concept in educational circles, but I forget
>it.
>
>Dar
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>[email protected]
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
Dawn Falbe
>Sadlyto say, this was only the first in many battles we endured before I had the
wits to yank them out of school. I'll always feel guilty about that.
Rhonda<
I know that feeling Rhonda... Zak went to 7 different pre-schools (one he
went to twice) before I got it that this was not going to work for either me
or he. I remember in one pre-school the teacher telling me that she thought
Zak was ADD and ought to be on Ritalin so that he would comply better with
the instructions they were being given, because when he got into the "real
world" he was going to have to do as he was told. You don't want to hear
the words that came out of my mouth to that one and also Zak came out of
that school that day.
Another one told me that at 4 he ought to be able to sit down and listen to
the story telling time for 45 mins instead of wanting to go outside and ride
a bicycle and playing on the swings. This school wanted him to call her
Miss someoneorwother, another thing I don't like. I was talking to this
woman and said to her "I know you want the kids to call you Miss ???? but as
a grownup I'm certainly not going to do that so what's your name, Debbie,
Joan, Alice" She looked so shocked that I wasn't going to call her Miss
????. I think he lasted a week at that one.
Zak told me a few weeks ago when I'd been talking to a friend about
pre-schools that he thought everyone went to that many to try them out and
see new people all the time. I thought that was a great way to look at
it...
Dawn F
Tucson, AZ
[email protected]
My friends who went to Holy Cross parochial school in the 1960's had to pay
fines for things like forgetting crayons or touching a nun! <g>
A nickel.
Sandra
fines for things like forgetting crayons or touching a nun! <g>
A nickel.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/19/03 11:54:38 AM, ikonstitcher@... writes:
<< > There's a name for the whole concept in educational circles, but I forget
I'd known for a long time) was nervously trying to talk me out of
homeschooling, he told me about his neice's school where they had a great
little store with toys and stuff the kids would donate, and at school they
earned toy money, and could spend it in this store.
I let him tell the whole store, explaining that it was a way for them to
learn about money and stores.
"Jerome, we live right near a Circle K!"
He just looked at me. He totally got it, and he was a little embarrassed,
but I saw him thinking and thinking about the idea that "it" didn't have to
be in school. That spending real American money at a real convenience store
on real stuff beat the HECK out of spending pretend money on donated stuff.
We have gotten the most benefit out of spending real money on donated stuff
at thrift stores, though! Some WONDERFUL games, out of print things we
couldn't have gotten otherwise, $2. Puzzles. Construction sets. Things
that schools would have to pay inflated over-the-top dollar for from
educational supply places that took school vouchers, and then would have to
lock up to keep from losing.
Sandra
<< > There's a name for the whole concept in educational circles, but I forget
> it.Token economy.
>>When Kirby was little and a long-time childless friend (childless man whom
I'd known for a long time) was nervously trying to talk me out of
homeschooling, he told me about his neice's school where they had a great
little store with toys and stuff the kids would donate, and at school they
earned toy money, and could spend it in this store.
I let him tell the whole store, explaining that it was a way for them to
learn about money and stores.
"Jerome, we live right near a Circle K!"
He just looked at me. He totally got it, and he was a little embarrassed,
but I saw him thinking and thinking about the idea that "it" didn't have to
be in school. That spending real American money at a real convenience store
on real stuff beat the HECK out of spending pretend money on donated stuff.
We have gotten the most benefit out of spending real money on donated stuff
at thrift stores, though! Some WONDERFUL games, out of print things we
couldn't have gotten otherwise, $2. Puzzles. Construction sets. Things
that schools would have to pay inflated over-the-top dollar for from
educational supply places that took school vouchers, and then would have to
lock up to keep from losing.
Sandra
Kelli Traaseth
Lucie Caunter <lucie.caunter@...> wrote:
**Sounds like training in consumerism...**
Yep, work really hard doing something for someone else, doing what you think that other person wants, get paid to buy something that is going to make you feel good.
Ewwww, really sad. How will they ever learn that happiness doesn't come from owning things?
Glad we're home.
Kelli
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
**Sounds like training in consumerism...**
Yep, work really hard doing something for someone else, doing what you think that other person wants, get paid to buy something that is going to make you feel good.
Ewwww, really sad. How will they ever learn that happiness doesn't come from owning things?
Glad we're home.
Kelli
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/19/2003 1:57:24 PM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
would have to go to school with a whole lot of nickles, I'm thinking.
Elizabeth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> My friends who went to Holy Cross parochial school in the 1960's had to payWhy couldn't they touch a nun? Ever? Could the nun touch them? My kids
> fines for things like forgetting crayons or touching a nun! <g>
>
would have to go to school with a whole lot of nickles, I'm thinking.
Elizabeth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/19/03 2:06:58 PM, kellitraas@... writes:
<< How will they ever learn that happiness doesn't come from owning things?
<g>
Sandra
<< How will they ever learn that happiness doesn't come from owning things?
>>Who's going to make a profit teaching THAT!?
<g>
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/19/03 4:08:39 PM, ejcrewe@... writes:
<< Why couldn't they touch a nun? Ever? Could the nun touch them? >>
The nun could whack them with a ruler. <g>
I think it was just one or two teachers maybe who didn't want kid hanging on
them.
STUPID rules. Tons of stupid rules.
Sandra
<< Why couldn't they touch a nun? Ever? Could the nun touch them? >>
The nun could whack them with a ruler. <g>
I think it was just one or two teachers maybe who didn't want kid hanging on
them.
STUPID rules. Tons of stupid rules.
Sandra
Kelli Traaseth
<< How will they ever learn that happiness doesn't come from owning things?
<g>**
I know, Ugh. It makes me think of Gotto's writings and the school's part in our economy.
I had never even thought of it that much before, and then after reading his work, started thinking about it, Back to School stuff is huge!
Kelli
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>**Who's going to make a profit teaching THAT!?
<g>**
I know, Ugh. It makes me think of Gotto's writings and the school's part in our economy.
I had never even thought of it that much before, and then after reading his work, started thinking about it, Back to School stuff is huge!
Kelli
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/19/03 5:10:11 PM, kellitraas@... writes:
<< I know, Ugh. It makes me think of Gotto's writings and the school's
part in our economy.
of stuff, to buy billboards, to buy TV ads. They had no "product" to sell,
just free information. And too many people are snobby and trained that if
they pay $29.95 for a book they'll have $29.95 worth of information they can
count on, but if they go to a meeting and just listen to some housewife, that
doesn't get them a receipt or ANYTHING.
So on the one hand there's LLL dealing with the suspicions of market-trained
consumers,
and then there are all those formula companies, bottle manufacturing
companies, pacifier-producing factories, baby-food companies with beautiful
advertising and attractive store displays, and mesmerized moms go happily to
the baby aisle instead of a LLL meeting.
Selling unschooling in a world of "BUY ME!" math courses and schools adve
rtising the advantages of sending your kid to their academy is pretty hard.
Especially when you tell them it's free and they don't have to buy ANY
curriculum.
It's like you're speaking a foreign language. "But I need fourth grade
materials, because my son is a fourth grader."
"No, you don't."
It's like telling someone they don't need to buy ANY baby equipment, no crib,
no fancy mechanical this'n'that, that they just need to be with their moms.
We must seem like nuts. And nobody has a receipt.
Sandra
<< I know, Ugh. It makes me think of Gotto's writings and the school's
part in our economy.
>>I always think of La Leche League. They didn't have money to publish a bunch
of stuff, to buy billboards, to buy TV ads. They had no "product" to sell,
just free information. And too many people are snobby and trained that if
they pay $29.95 for a book they'll have $29.95 worth of information they can
count on, but if they go to a meeting and just listen to some housewife, that
doesn't get them a receipt or ANYTHING.
So on the one hand there's LLL dealing with the suspicions of market-trained
consumers,
and then there are all those formula companies, bottle manufacturing
companies, pacifier-producing factories, baby-food companies with beautiful
advertising and attractive store displays, and mesmerized moms go happily to
the baby aisle instead of a LLL meeting.
Selling unschooling in a world of "BUY ME!" math courses and schools adve
rtising the advantages of sending your kid to their academy is pretty hard.
Especially when you tell them it's free and they don't have to buy ANY
curriculum.
It's like you're speaking a foreign language. "But I need fourth grade
materials, because my son is a fourth grader."
"No, you don't."
It's like telling someone they don't need to buy ANY baby equipment, no crib,
no fancy mechanical this'n'that, that they just need to be with their moms.
We must seem like nuts. And nobody has a receipt.
Sandra
Bill and Diane
There's one reason there's such monotony in school--anything that really
DOES attract kids is locked up! Partly to keep it from being stolen, but
partly because "they'd spend all their time on -x- and never do their
worksheets!"
:-) Diane
DOES attract kids is locked up! Partly to keep it from being stolen, but
partly because "they'd spend all their time on -x- and never do their
worksheets!"
:-) Diane
>We have gotten the most benefit out of spending real money on donated stuff
>at thrift stores, though! Some WONDERFUL games, out of print things we
>couldn't have gotten otherwise, $2. Puzzles. Construction sets. Things
>that schools would have to pay inflated over-the-top dollar for from
>educational supply places that took school vouchers, and then would have to
>lock up to keep from losing.
>
kbolden
>>It makes me think of Gotto's writings and the school's part in our economy. I had never even thought of it that much before, and then after reading his work, started thinking about it, Back to School stuff is huge! <<And where I live, the school district is the 2nd largest employer in town, and a big political lobby.
Kay
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema
At 06:43 PM 3/19/2003 -0500, you wrote:
a good connotation there... maybe "Pet Space" ... or "Pet Dust" or maybe
"Pet Quark"... Ooooh. That's a keeper. Pet Quark it is! A little
cardboard box containing some lovely air and a Quark (which would be
represented by more air, or maybe a little bit of static
electricity...) I'll be rich beyond my wildest Dreams!!!! (cackle, cackle...)
Okay, but if one was a marketing genius, you could get rich with that... (grin)
HeidiWD
www.petquark.com
(just kidding about the website... You didn't really try it, did you?)
(if you did, wanna buy a Pet Quark?)
><< How will they ever learn that happiness doesn't come from owning things?You've heard of Pet Rocks? I'm going to develop "Pet Air" Hmmm, not such
> >>
>
>Who's going to make a profit teaching THAT!?
a good connotation there... maybe "Pet Space" ... or "Pet Dust" or maybe
"Pet Quark"... Ooooh. That's a keeper. Pet Quark it is! A little
cardboard box containing some lovely air and a Quark (which would be
represented by more air, or maybe a little bit of static
electricity...) I'll be rich beyond my wildest Dreams!!!! (cackle, cackle...)
Okay, but if one was a marketing genius, you could get rich with that... (grin)
HeidiWD
www.petquark.com
(just kidding about the website... You didn't really try it, did you?)
(if you did, wanna buy a Pet Quark?)
Nancy Wooton
on 3/19/03 6:31 PM, Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema at heidi@... wrote:
Nancy
--
"Are you sure this is the Sci-Fi Convention? It's full of nerds!"
--Homer Simpson
> "Pet Quark"... Ooooh. That's a keeper. Pet Quark it is! A littleBut little Trekkers will be looking for a Ferengi Bartender in the Box.
> cardboard box containing some lovely air and a Quark (which would be
> represented by more air, or maybe a little bit of static
> electricity...) I'll be rich beyond my wildest Dreams!!!! (cackle,
> cackle...)
Nancy
--
"Are you sure this is the Sci-Fi Convention? It's full of nerds!"
--Homer Simpson
Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema
At 07:30 PM 3/19/2003 -0800, you wrote:
end of his name.
Oh dear... Am I a trekkie?
Heidi
> > "Pet Quark"... Ooooh. That's a keeper. Pet Quark it is! A littleIsn't that Quarg? I've always thought that there was a 'g' sound at the
>
>But little Trekkers will be looking for a Ferengi Bartender in the Box.
end of his name.
Oh dear... Am I a trekkie?
Heidi
Stephanie Elms
> Schools are so full of incentives these days. The kidsJason's best friend's older sister just started playing the flute. I was talking
> around here are wearing necklaces with plastic books. They
> earn a plastic book each time they meet certain reading
> goals. And it is sad, because most parents think this is a
> good thing!
with her the first day she brought home her instrument. She spent most of the time
explaining to me the incentive program they had...basically she earned points for
every practice session, if she took outside lessons etc. I can't remember what she
got if she earned enough points but she spent quite a bit of time planning how she
was going to get it. such a shame....
Stephanie E.
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/19/2003 1:56:58 PM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
a fine if their cell phone rang during class.
A fin.
But at the end he won all the money in the sales competition. $33. :)
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> My friends who went to Holy Cross parochial school in the 1960's had to payMy husband went to a sales training thing for his company and they had to pay
> fines for things like forgetting crayons or touching a nun! <g>
>
a fine if their cell phone rang during class.
A fin.
But at the end he won all the money in the sales competition. $33. :)
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
coyote's corner
You have put it so well. My daughter is 30 y.o. I am raising her first
child. She has the other two One is 6 y.o. One is 6 months old. She has lost
these kids frequently. Each time she loses the kids (over drugs) she loses
everything else (or else it's all gone all ready, i.e. TVs, vcr, car seats,
strollers, etc) each time she gets them back, she buys everything again -
brand new!! She is a constant customer at rent a center...sad and frankly..
stupid!!!
And she usually loses her receipts.
Janis
Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
<www.coyotescorner.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 7:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning]Overheard
In a message dated 3/19/03 5:10:11 PM, kellitraas@... writes:
<< I know, Ugh. It makes me think of Gotto's writings and the school's
part in our economy.
bunch
of stuff, to buy billboards, to buy TV ads. They had no "product" to sell,
just free information. And too many people are snobby and trained that if
they pay $29.95 for a book they'll have $29.95 worth of information they can
count on, but if they go to a meeting and just listen to some housewife,
that
doesn't get them a receipt or ANYTHING.
So on the one hand there's LLL dealing with the suspicions of market-trained
consumers,
and then there are all those formula companies, bottle manufacturing
companies, pacifier-producing factories, baby-food companies with beautiful
advertising and attractive store displays, and mesmerized moms go happily to
the baby aisle instead of a LLL meeting.
Selling unschooling in a world of "BUY ME!" math courses and schools adve
rtising the advantages of sending your kid to their academy is pretty hard.
Especially when you tell them it's free and they don't have to buy ANY
curriculum.
It's like you're speaking a foreign language. "But I need fourth grade
materials, because my son is a fourth grader."
"No, you don't."
It's like telling someone they don't need to buy ANY baby equipment, no
crib,
no fancy mechanical this'n'that, that they just need to be with their moms.
We must seem like nuts. And nobody has a receipt.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
child. She has the other two One is 6 y.o. One is 6 months old. She has lost
these kids frequently. Each time she loses the kids (over drugs) she loses
everything else (or else it's all gone all ready, i.e. TVs, vcr, car seats,
strollers, etc) each time she gets them back, she buys everything again -
brand new!! She is a constant customer at rent a center...sad and frankly..
stupid!!!
And she usually loses her receipts.
Janis
Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
<www.coyotescorner.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 7:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning]Overheard
In a message dated 3/19/03 5:10:11 PM, kellitraas@... writes:
<< I know, Ugh. It makes me think of Gotto's writings and the school's
part in our economy.
>>I always think of La Leche League. They didn't have money to publish a
bunch
of stuff, to buy billboards, to buy TV ads. They had no "product" to sell,
just free information. And too many people are snobby and trained that if
they pay $29.95 for a book they'll have $29.95 worth of information they can
count on, but if they go to a meeting and just listen to some housewife,
that
doesn't get them a receipt or ANYTHING.
So on the one hand there's LLL dealing with the suspicions of market-trained
consumers,
and then there are all those formula companies, bottle manufacturing
companies, pacifier-producing factories, baby-food companies with beautiful
advertising and attractive store displays, and mesmerized moms go happily to
the baby aisle instead of a LLL meeting.
Selling unschooling in a world of "BUY ME!" math courses and schools adve
rtising the advantages of sending your kid to their academy is pretty hard.
Especially when you tell them it's free and they don't have to buy ANY
curriculum.
It's like you're speaking a foreign language. "But I need fourth grade
materials, because my son is a fourth grader."
"No, you don't."
It's like telling someone they don't need to buy ANY baby equipment, no
crib,
no fancy mechanical this'n'that, that they just need to be with their moms.
We must seem like nuts. And nobody has a receipt.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=246920.2960106.4328965.2848452/D=egroupweb/S=17055421
11:HM/A=1464858/R=0/*http://www.gotomypc.com/u/tr/yh/cpm/grp/300_Cquo_1/g22l
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
coyote's corner
We shop at Thrift stores and Savers, which is a Big Sister place. Brianna
paid $1.00 for a brand new Pokemon Monopoly Game. She has quite a few games
that we purchased used.
We buy clothing used..Brianna goes through clothes very quickly!!
We have to buy used. We can't afford new! We saw pants for Brianna for
$60.00!!! Right.
Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
<www.coyotescorner.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill and Diane [mailto:cen46624@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 8:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning]Overheard
There's one reason there's such monotony in school--anything that really
DOES attract kids is locked up! Partly to keep it from being stolen, but
partly because "they'd spend all their time on -x- and never do their
worksheets!"
:-) Diane
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=246920.2960106.4328965.2848452/D=egroupweb/S=17055421
11:HM/A=1481646/R=0/*http://www.gotomypc.com/u/tr/yh/cpm/grp/300_flake/g22lp
?Target=mm/g22lp.tmpl>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
paid $1.00 for a brand new Pokemon Monopoly Game. She has quite a few games
that we purchased used.
We buy clothing used..Brianna goes through clothes very quickly!!
We have to buy used. We can't afford new! We saw pants for Brianna for
$60.00!!! Right.
Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
<www.coyotescorner.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill and Diane [mailto:cen46624@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 8:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning]Overheard
There's one reason there's such monotony in school--anything that really
DOES attract kids is locked up! Partly to keep it from being stolen, but
partly because "they'd spend all their time on -x- and never do their
worksheets!"
:-) Diane
>We have gotten the most benefit out of spending real money on donated stuffYahoo! Groups Sponsor
>at thrift stores, though! Some WONDERFUL games, out of print things we
>couldn't have gotten otherwise, $2. Puzzles. Construction sets. Things
>that schools would have to pay inflated over-the-top dollar for from
>educational supply places that took school vouchers, and then would have to
>lock up to keep from losing.
>
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=246920.2960106.4328965.2848452/D=egroupweb/S=17055421
11:HM/A=1481646/R=0/*http://www.gotomypc.com/u/tr/yh/cpm/grp/300_flake/g22lp
?Target=mm/g22lp.tmpl>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
coyote's corner
Not to mention the damage manufacturing does to our Mother Earth.
Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
<www.coyotescorner.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephanie Elms [mailto:stephanie.elms@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 12:16 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [AlwaysLearning]Overheard
talking
with her the first day she brought home her instrument. She spent most of
the time
explaining to me the incentive program they had...basically she earned
points for
every practice session, if she took outside lessons etc. I can't remember
what she
got if she earned enough points but she spent quite a bit of time planning
how she
was going to get it. such a shame....
Stephanie E.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=246920.2960106.4328965.2848452/D=egroupweb/S=17055421
11:HM/A=1464858/R=0/*http://www.gotomypc.com/u/tr/yh/cpm/grp/300_Cquo_1/g22l
p?Target=mm/g22lp.tmpl>
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
<www.coyotescorner.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephanie Elms [mailto:stephanie.elms@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 12:16 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [AlwaysLearning]Overheard
> Schools are so full of incentives these days. The kidsJason's best friend's older sister just started playing the flute. I was
> around here are wearing necklaces with plastic books. They
> earn a plastic book each time they meet certain reading
> goals. And it is sad, because most parents think this is a
> good thing!
talking
with her the first day she brought home her instrument. She spent most of
the time
explaining to me the incentive program they had...basically she earned
points for
every practice session, if she took outside lessons etc. I can't remember
what she
got if she earned enough points but she spent quite a bit of time planning
how she
was going to get it. such a shame....
Stephanie E.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=246920.2960106.4328965.2848452/D=egroupweb/S=17055421
11:HM/A=1464858/R=0/*http://www.gotomypc.com/u/tr/yh/cpm/grp/300_Cquo_1/g22l
p?Target=mm/g22lp.tmpl>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/20/03 12:14:29 AM Eastern Standard Time,
heidi@... writes:
end.
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
heidi@... writes:
> Isn't that Quarg? I've always thought that there was a 'g' sound at theNot sure of the spelling but they pronounce it with the hard "K" sound at the
> end of his name.
>
end.
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/20/03 12:16:44 AM Eastern Standard Time,
stephanie.elms@... writes:
for getting someone to do something they don't want to do. Of course they
don't see the option of not making the child do it. I guess what bothered me
more was that the conversation I overheard implied that the students had to
pay money for "bad" behavior. Punishment by payment. But I am not a
punishment person anyway.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
stephanie.elms@... writes:
> Jason's best friend's older sister just started playing the flute. I wasI do think sometimes they feel that the payment thing is the only alternative
> talking
> with her the first day she brought home her instrument. She spent most of
> the time
> explaining to me the incentive program they had...basically she earned
> points for
> every practice session, if she took outside lessons etc. I can't remember
> what she
> got if she earned enough points but she spent quite a bit of time planning
> how she
> was going to get it. such a shame....
>
>
for getting someone to do something they don't want to do. Of course they
don't see the option of not making the child do it. I guess what bothered me
more was that the conversation I overheard implied that the students had to
pay money for "bad" behavior. Punishment by payment. But I am not a
punishment person anyway.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]