Immaculate conception...FYI
[email protected]
Lots of people are confused about this. The Virgin Mary is the Immaculate
Conception...not Jesus. According to the Catholic Church, Mary was born
without the stain of original sin. She was free from sin from her conception
onward. Jesus is referred to as the virgin birth.
Jodye
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Conception...not Jesus. According to the Catholic Church, Mary was born
without the stain of original sin. She was free from sin from her conception
onward. Jesus is referred to as the virgin birth.
Jodye
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/21/01 11:02:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,
JodyeB1@... writes:
<< The Virgin Mary is the Immaculate
Conception...not Jesus. According to the Catholic Church, Mary was born
without the stain of original sin. She was free from sin from her
conception
onward. Jesus is referred to as the virgin birth. >>
Is there a Bible verse that supports this? Just curious.....
Amy Kagey in NW Ohio
<A HREF="http://www.ubah.com/ecommerce/default.asp?sid=Z0939&gid=85215">
Usborne Books</A> are books
kids love to read!
(www.ubah.com/z0939)
JodyeB1@... writes:
<< The Virgin Mary is the Immaculate
Conception...not Jesus. According to the Catholic Church, Mary was born
without the stain of original sin. She was free from sin from her
conception
onward. Jesus is referred to as the virgin birth. >>
Is there a Bible verse that supports this? Just curious.....
Amy Kagey in NW Ohio
<A HREF="http://www.ubah.com/ecommerce/default.asp?sid=Z0939&gid=85215">
Usborne Books</A> are books
kids love to read!
(www.ubah.com/z0939)
Sharon Rudd
So Jesus' Granny was the Virgin?
--- JodyeB1@... wrote:
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--- JodyeB1@... wrote:
> Lots of people are confused about this. The Virgin__________________________________________________
> Mary is the Immaculate
> Conception...not Jesus. According to the Catholic
> Church, Mary was born
> without the stain of original sin. She was free
> from sin from her conception
> onward. Jesus is referred to as the virgin birth.
>
> Jodye
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/21/01 9:07:04 AM, amycats2@... writes:
<< According to the Catholic Church, ... >>
<<Is there a Bible verse that supports this? Just curious..... >>
She already qualified it as "according to the Catholic Church."
In the medieval literature, poetry, epiphany carols (epiphany is all rolled
into Christmas for us, but it was celebrated in late Spring, I think--when
Gabriel came to tell Mary she was pregnant), Mary is referred to a a "pure
virgin" and "virgin most pure." Maybe the purity was generalized to her
whole life. I don't know.
I think the immaculate part developed gradually to explain why Jesus could be
perfect if he were half real human. So they downgrade Mary from full human
status to a clean vessel used by God to deliver his package to mankind.
The Marianist Movement in medieval Europe was in some ways the birth of Mary.
In the Bible she's not a major character, but in Europe for all kinds of
reasons people stab guesses at there came a movement to elevate Mary and so
stories were added for various reasons (revelations from God and other kinds
of miracles).
I just happen to have read this this morning, on a trivia calendar (Forgotten
English, which is never on the right page, and today was on October 23):
"Feast Day of St. Elfelda, who was called upon in the tenth century to
provide breakfast for the traveling Saxon King Athelstan and his men. She
had enough beer to fill their horn cups only once, but miraculously, after
praying to the Virgin, she was able to give them each as much morning
libation as they could drink, which not infrequently amounted to half a
gallon per person."
I need to forward this to the mom who complained that it was anti-Christian
to say the Catholics took, rights away from the Viking women. These are the
same times and the same Christians she was defending--those who pray to the
Virgin Mary so that soldiers can drink half a gallon of miracle beer for
breakfast. Baptists would love to hate THAT.
Sandra
<< According to the Catholic Church, ... >>
<<Is there a Bible verse that supports this? Just curious..... >>
She already qualified it as "according to the Catholic Church."
In the medieval literature, poetry, epiphany carols (epiphany is all rolled
into Christmas for us, but it was celebrated in late Spring, I think--when
Gabriel came to tell Mary she was pregnant), Mary is referred to a a "pure
virgin" and "virgin most pure." Maybe the purity was generalized to her
whole life. I don't know.
I think the immaculate part developed gradually to explain why Jesus could be
perfect if he were half real human. So they downgrade Mary from full human
status to a clean vessel used by God to deliver his package to mankind.
The Marianist Movement in medieval Europe was in some ways the birth of Mary.
In the Bible she's not a major character, but in Europe for all kinds of
reasons people stab guesses at there came a movement to elevate Mary and so
stories were added for various reasons (revelations from God and other kinds
of miracles).
I just happen to have read this this morning, on a trivia calendar (Forgotten
English, which is never on the right page, and today was on October 23):
"Feast Day of St. Elfelda, who was called upon in the tenth century to
provide breakfast for the traveling Saxon King Athelstan and his men. She
had enough beer to fill their horn cups only once, but miraculously, after
praying to the Virgin, she was able to give them each as much morning
libation as they could drink, which not infrequently amounted to half a
gallon per person."
I need to forward this to the mom who complained that it was anti-Christian
to say the Catholics took, rights away from the Viking women. These are the
same times and the same Christians she was defending--those who pray to the
Virgin Mary so that soldiers can drink half a gallon of miracle beer for
breakfast. Baptists would love to hate THAT.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/21/01 11:06:53 AM, amycats2@... writes:
<< << The Virgin Mary is the Immaculate
Conception...not Jesus. According to the Catholic Church, Mary was born
without the stain of original sin. She was free from sin from her
conception
onward. Jesus is referred to as the virgin birth. >>
Is there a Bible verse that supports this? Just curious..... >>
The whole virgin mom thing smacks of political power mongering to me.
Sharon
<< << The Virgin Mary is the Immaculate
Conception...not Jesus. According to the Catholic Church, Mary was born
without the stain of original sin. She was free from sin from her
conception
onward. Jesus is referred to as the virgin birth. >>
Is there a Bible verse that supports this? Just curious..... >>
The whole virgin mom thing smacks of political power mongering to me.
Sharon
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/21/01 9:37:24 AM, sharonve@... writes:
<< The whole virgin mom thing smacks of political power mongering to me.
It's interesting that the Bible goes to great lengths to prove Joseph's
lineage and then says he wasn't the dad. <g>
<< The whole virgin mom thing smacks of political power mongering to me.
>>On the part of the enemies of Joseph's relatives?
It's interesting that the Bible goes to great lengths to prove Joseph's
lineage and then says he wasn't the dad. <g>
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/21/01 11:57:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
<<
It's interesting that the Bible goes to great lengths to prove Joseph's
lineage and then says he wasn't the dad. <g> >>
Hmmmm...I'll have to ponder this.
Amy (a born-and-bred Baptist who is sometimes skeptical)
Amy Kagey in NW Ohio
<A HREF="http://www.ubah.com/ecommerce/default.asp?sid=Z0939&gid=85215">
Usborne Books</A> are books
kids love to read!
(www.ubah.com/z0939)
SandraDodd@... writes:
<<
It's interesting that the Bible goes to great lengths to prove Joseph's
lineage and then says he wasn't the dad. <g> >>
Hmmmm...I'll have to ponder this.
Amy (a born-and-bred Baptist who is sometimes skeptical)
Amy Kagey in NW Ohio
<A HREF="http://www.ubah.com/ecommerce/default.asp?sid=Z0939&gid=85215">
Usborne Books</A> are books
kids love to read!
(www.ubah.com/z0939)
[email protected]
On Fri, 21 Dec 2001 11:23:21 EST SandraDodd@... writes:
that she was probably only around 13 years old when she gave birth to
Jesus. A child, really....
Dar
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> I think the immaculate part developed gradually to explain why Jesuscould be
> perfect if he were half real human. So they downgrade Mary from fullhuman
> status to a clean vessel used by God to deliver his package toWe were watching something on tv the other night and they were saying
> mankind.
that she was probably only around 13 years old when she gave birth to
Jesus. A child, really....
> These are the same times and the same Christians she wasdefending--those who pray
> to the Virgin Mary so that soldiers can drink half a gallon of miraclebeer
> for breakfast. Baptists would love to hate THAT.:-) Now that's funny....
Dar
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Nancy Wooton
on 12/21/01 8:23 AM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:
date was picked; he didn't make the connection that it's 9 months before
Christmas <ggg>
Epiphany celebrates Christ's baptism, January 6. In the east, it's called
Theophany, when the Trinity is made manifest (the Father speaks, the Son is
baptized, the Spirit descends in the form of a dove).
Nancy
> (epiphany is all rolledThat's Annunciation, March 25. I remember explaining to our priest why that
> into Christmas for us, but it was celebrated in late Spring, I think--when
> Gabriel came to tell Mary she was pregnant)
date was picked; he didn't make the connection that it's 9 months before
Christmas <ggg>
Epiphany celebrates Christ's baptism, January 6. In the east, it's called
Theophany, when the Trinity is made manifest (the Father speaks, the Son is
baptized, the Spirit descends in the form of a dove).
Nancy
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/21/2001 8:25:15 AM Pacific Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
Museum. This woman did us a favor - we got hooked, looking up some of the
(mis)information she passed on. She said, "OKay, so maybe women lost some of
their power when Christianity took over, but at least the could SURVIVE since
the Christians got rid of human sacrifice." She repeated that a bunch of
times- implying that women were routinely in danger of being sacrificed to
the heathen gods.
We haven't found any information to support that at all. Even animal
sacrifice seems to have been rare - and the only mention of human sacrifice
we've found is that sometimes a King might have been killed when things
weren't going well. Seems like women had it pretty good in that culture -
could own property, had basic civil rights, took their own dowry back with
them if they left their husbands, could choose themselves to leave their
husbands.
It is just amazing how we humans can delude ourselves and close our minds and
just choose to believe things in spite of evidence to the contrary or in the
absence of any actual information. Just amazing. I'm sure we're all doing it,
to some extent or another.
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> I need to forward this to the mom who complained that it was anti-ChristianWe're going to a Viking exhibit at the Los Angeles County Natural History
> to say the Catholics took, rights away from the Viking women. These are
> the
> same times and the same Christians she was defending--those who pray to the
>
> Virgin Mary so that soldiers can drink half a gallon of miracle beer for
> breakfast. Baptists would love to hate THAT.
Museum. This woman did us a favor - we got hooked, looking up some of the
(mis)information she passed on. She said, "OKay, so maybe women lost some of
their power when Christianity took over, but at least the could SURVIVE since
the Christians got rid of human sacrifice." She repeated that a bunch of
times- implying that women were routinely in danger of being sacrificed to
the heathen gods.
We haven't found any information to support that at all. Even animal
sacrifice seems to have been rare - and the only mention of human sacrifice
we've found is that sometimes a King might have been killed when things
weren't going well. Seems like women had it pretty good in that culture -
could own property, had basic civil rights, took their own dowry back with
them if they left their husbands, could choose themselves to leave their
husbands.
It is just amazing how we humans can delude ourselves and close our minds and
just choose to believe things in spite of evidence to the contrary or in the
absence of any actual information. Just amazing. I'm sure we're all doing it,
to some extent or another.
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/21/01 10:13:58 AM, Felicitas@... writes:
<< That's Annunciation, March 25. >>
Oh, thanks. I thought it was wrong when I wrote it, but I figured someone
here would know what was right! Good for me. Good for us.
<<Epiphany celebrates Christ's baptism, January 6. >>
Oh yeah! Thanks.
Sandra, who still might not have it straight for all eternity
<< That's Annunciation, March 25. >>
Oh, thanks. I thought it was wrong when I wrote it, but I figured someone
here would know what was right! Good for me. Good for us.
<<Epiphany celebrates Christ's baptism, January 6. >>
Oh yeah! Thanks.
Sandra, who still might not have it straight for all eternity
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/21/01 11:02:30 AM, PSoroosh@... writes:
<< She said, "OKay, so maybe women lost some of
their power when Christianity took over, but at least the could SURVIVE since
the Christians got rid of human sacrifice." >>
Christianity is BASED on human sacrifice.
And cannibalism.
And they are more adept than should be believed at covering that over with a
veil (a little white veil over a box on an altar) and pointing the
human-sacrifice and cannibalistic blood-drinking at OTHER people--Mayans,
vague African tribes, vague South Pacific Islanders.
<< could choose themselves to leave their
husbands. >>
In "middle-class" and lower folk (probably not thanes and landowner families,
I don't know) they could boot him out and keep the house.
Sandra
<< She said, "OKay, so maybe women lost some of
their power when Christianity took over, but at least the could SURVIVE since
the Christians got rid of human sacrifice." >>
Christianity is BASED on human sacrifice.
And cannibalism.
And they are more adept than should be believed at covering that over with a
veil (a little white veil over a box on an altar) and pointing the
human-sacrifice and cannibalistic blood-drinking at OTHER people--Mayans,
vague African tribes, vague South Pacific Islanders.
<< could choose themselves to leave their
husbands. >>
In "middle-class" and lower folk (probably not thanes and landowner families,
I don't know) they could boot him out and keep the house.
Sandra
Joseph Fuerst
No...Immaculate Conception means that Mary was specially blessed and free
from sin from the moment of her conception. She was conceived through the
conjugal act of her parents. Consider the definition of immaculate..it has
nothing to do with virginity.
She was a virgin when Jesus was conceived.
S
from sin from the moment of her conception. She was conceived through the
conjugal act of her parents. Consider the definition of immaculate..it has
nothing to do with virginity.
She was a virgin when Jesus was conceived.
S
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharon Rudd" <bearspawprint@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Immaculate conception...FYI?
> So Jesus' Granny was the Virgin?
>
> --- JodyeB1@... wrote:
> > Lots of people are confused about this. The Virgin
> > Mary is the Immaculate
> > Conception...not Jesus. According to the Catholic
> > Church, Mary was born
> > without the stain of original sin. She was free
> > from sin from her conception
> > onward. Jesus is referred to as the virgin birth.
> >
> > Jodye
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Joseph Fuerst
<snip>>>pray to the
any of the Saints.
Unfortunately, the teachings of most, probably all, faiths/religions and
the practice of the human beings following a faith tradition often stray
from the true message of the faith.
S
> Virgin Mary so that soldiers can drink half a gallon of miracle beer forA person truly following the the Catholic faith does NOT pray to Mary or to
> breakfast. Baptists would love to hate THAT.
>
> Sandra
>
any of the Saints.
Unfortunately, the teachings of most, probably all, faiths/religions and
the practice of the human beings following a faith tradition often stray
from the true message of the faith.
S
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/21/01 12:39:26 PM, fuerst@... writes:
<< Consider the definition of immaculate..it has
nothing to do with virginity. >>
Doesn't it mean "not dirty"?
And isn't sex dirty?
Isn't "impure" like either a turd in the lemonade, or having had sex?
I'm being facetious, but sex is SO tied up with sin in the Catholic church,
especially the medieval church we're talking about, that monks have been
known to cut their parts off, and fathers have killed daughters for not being
virgins. And when the topic is virgin birth, but only the Catholics believe
in Mary's immaculate condition, it's not obvious to the protestants what you
could be talking about.
There's not that much about Mary in the Bible, but there is probably more
about Mary in Catholic church lore and belief than there is about Jesus.
Sandra
<< Consider the definition of immaculate..it has
nothing to do with virginity. >>
Doesn't it mean "not dirty"?
And isn't sex dirty?
Isn't "impure" like either a turd in the lemonade, or having had sex?
I'm being facetious, but sex is SO tied up with sin in the Catholic church,
especially the medieval church we're talking about, that monks have been
known to cut their parts off, and fathers have killed daughters for not being
virgins. And when the topic is virgin birth, but only the Catholics believe
in Mary's immaculate condition, it's not obvious to the protestants what you
could be talking about.
There's not that much about Mary in the Bible, but there is probably more
about Mary in Catholic church lore and belief than there is about Jesus.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/21/01 12:44:34 PM, fuerst@... writes:
<< A person truly following the the Catholic faith does NOT pray to Mary or to
any of the Saints. >>
How do you ask them to intercede without praying to them?
<< A person truly following the the Catholic faith does NOT pray to Mary or to
any of the Saints. >>
How do you ask them to intercede without praying to them?
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/21/01 12:44:34 PM, fuerst@... writes:
Prayers to Mary: http://www.catholic.org/prayer/praymary.html
What are the words to the rosary then, if not a prayer to Mary?? Some big
beads get "Our Father" (that's the Lord's Prayer, for Protestants), but the
little beads are "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed
art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary
Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen."
If the Pope is still blessing and distributing rosaries, I think it's an
error to say << A person truly following the the Catholic faith does NOT pray
to Mary or to any of the Saints. >>
Prayers to Mary: http://www.catholic.org/prayer/praymary.html
What are the words to the rosary then, if not a prayer to Mary?? Some big
beads get "Our Father" (that's the Lord's Prayer, for Protestants), but the
little beads are "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed
art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary
Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen."
If the Pope is still blessing and distributing rosaries, I think it's an
error to say << A person truly following the the Catholic faith does NOT pray
to Mary or to any of the Saints. >>
[email protected]
On Fri, 21 Dec 2001 14:42:30 -0500 "Joseph Fuerst" <fuerst@...>
writes:
One prays to Mary or the saints to ask them to sort of pass your message
along, at least according to the Catholicism I grew up in. I was with the
sisters of Loretto in elementary school and the Carmelites for a year of
high school.
Dar
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writes:
> A person truly following the the Catholic faith does NOT pray to"Hail Mary, full of Grace"?
> Mary or to
> any of the Saints.
One prays to Mary or the saints to ask them to sort of pass your message
along, at least according to the Catholicism I grew up in. I was with the
sisters of Loretto in elementary school and the Carmelites for a year of
high school.
Dar
________________________________________________________________
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The Mowery Family
Well, I am/was raised catholic and praying to the saints was kind of like
asking for assistance on a less important issue. When anything is lost, I
still send shout out to St. Anthony. Mary and the rosary is(in my case)
used to get into a prayerful meditation. St. Jude is for lost causes and a
Hail Mary still helps me, especially when driving in snow or ice.
Do I misuse the prayers? I am sure, will God or anyone hold that against
me, I doubt it.
Karen M.
who still remembers the Jesus on the dashboard in the station wagon and mom
sayin, "I don't care if it rains or freezes, long as I got my plastic
Jesus"
asking for assistance on a less important issue. When anything is lost, I
still send shout out to St. Anthony. Mary and the rosary is(in my case)
used to get into a prayerful meditation. St. Jude is for lost causes and a
Hail Mary still helps me, especially when driving in snow or ice.
Do I misuse the prayers? I am sure, will God or anyone hold that against
me, I doubt it.
Karen M.
who still remembers the Jesus on the dashboard in the station wagon and mom
sayin, "I don't care if it rains or freezes, long as I got my plastic
Jesus"
>pray
> If the Pope is still blessing and distributing rosaries, I think it's an
> error to say << A person truly following the the Catholic faith does NOT
> to Mary or to any of the Saints. >>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Pam Hartley
Well, that and the fact that the message keeps changing and people get
confused.
Pam
----------
From: "Joseph Fuerst" <fuerst@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Immaculate conception...FYI
Date: Fri, Dec 21, 2001, 11:42 AM
Unfortunately, the teachings of most, probably all, faiths/religions and
the practice of the human beings following a faith tradition often stray
from the true message of the faith.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
confused.
Pam
----------
From: "Joseph Fuerst" <fuerst@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Immaculate conception...FYI
Date: Fri, Dec 21, 2001, 11:42 AM
Unfortunately, the teachings of most, probably all, faiths/religions and
the practice of the human beings following a faith tradition often stray
from the true message of the faith.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joseph Fuerst
----- Original Message -----
From: <freeform@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Immaculate conception...FYI
>
> We were watching something on tv the other night and they were saying
> that she was probably only around 13 years old when she gave birth to
> Jesus. A child, really....
>
> Dar
> ________________________________________________________________
I think early marriage/parenthood was typical for the day and age. After
all, the usual lifespan was quite short.
S
Joseph Fuerst
I don't understand. Can you explain ?
> The whole virgin mom thing smacks of political power mongering to me.
>
> Sharon
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
kayb85
--- In AlwaysLearning@y..., amycats2@a... wrote:
Sheila
> In a message dated 12/21/01 11:02:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,born
> JodyeB1@a... writes:
>
> << The Virgin Mary is the Immaculate
> Conception...not Jesus. According to the Catholic Church, Mary was
> without the stain of original sin. She was free from sin from herNo, there is not. This is a completely man-made doctrine.
> conception
> onward. Jesus is referred to as the virgin birth. >>
>
> Is there a Bible verse that supports this? Just curious.....
>
> Amy Kagey in NW Ohio
Sheila
kayb85
Most Bible scholars agree that she was around 13 or 14. A child
according to our culture, but in her culture, a woman.
Sheila
according to our culture, but in her culture, a woman.
Sheila
> > We were watching something on tv the other night and they weresaying
> > that she was probably only around 13 years old when she gave birthto
> > Jesus. A child, really....After
> >
> > Dar
> > ________________________________________________________________
> I think early marriage/parenthood was typical for the day and age.
> all, the usual lifespan was quite short.
> S
Joseph Fuerst
Oh, I thought many people's problems with Christianity/Catholicism because
the essential message has remained so unchanged.
S
the essential message has remained so unchanged.
S
> Well, that and the fact that the message keeps changing and people get
> confused.
>
> Pam
>
> ----------
> From: "Joseph Fuerst" <fuerst@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Immaculate conception...FYI
> Date: Fri, Dec 21, 2001, 11:42 AM
>
>
> Unfortunately, the teachings of most, probably all, faiths/religions and
> the practice of the human beings following a faith tradition often stray
> from the true message of the faith.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Pam Hartley
No, most people's problem with the message of Christianity/Catholicism is in
the delivery methods.
Pam
----------
From: "Joseph Fuerst" <fuerst@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Immaculate conception...FYI
Date: Fri, Dec 21, 2001, 1:52 PM
Oh, I thought many people's problems with Christianity/Catholicism because
the essential message has remained so unchanged.
S
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the delivery methods.
Pam
----------
From: "Joseph Fuerst" <fuerst@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Immaculate conception...FYI
Date: Fri, Dec 21, 2001, 1:52 PM
Oh, I thought many people's problems with Christianity/Catholicism because
the essential message has remained so unchanged.
S
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joseph Fuerst
It is derived from what is written in Luke, and something in Ephesians, I
think.....I'll look it up when I get a spare minute -HAH!!! (As if that's
likely to happen....)
S.....having a frustrating day. How can it possibly be that EVERY time the
toddler is about to fall asleep, there's a knock, no, a LOUD banging,
on my front door!
think.....I'll look it up when I get a spare minute -HAH!!! (As if that's
likely to happen....)
S.....having a frustrating day. How can it possibly be that EVERY time the
toddler is about to fall asleep, there's a knock, no, a LOUD banging,
on my front door!
> > << The Virgin Mary is the Immaculate
> > Conception...not Jesus. According to the Catholic Church, Mary was
> born
> > without the stain of original sin. She was free from sin from her
> > conception
> > onward. Jesus is referred to as the virgin birth. >>
> >
> > Is there a Bible verse that supports this? Just curious.....
> >
> > Amy Kagey in NW Ohio
>
> No, there is not. This is a completely man-made doctrine.
> Sheila
>
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>
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Joseph Fuerst
I totally agree.
S
S
> No, most people's problem with the message of Christianity/Catholicism isin
> the delivery methods.because
>
> Pam
>
> ----------
> From: "Joseph Fuerst" <fuerst@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Immaculate conception...FYI
> Date: Fri, Dec 21, 2001, 1:52 PM
>
>
> Oh, I thought many people's problems with Christianity/Catholicism
> the essential message has remained so unchanged.
> S
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
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> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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>
Joseph Fuerst
So maybe that's why people say they're *practicing* their faith. Who was it
that said, "Anything worth doing, is worth doing wrong."
Jesus, too. What memories!
that said, "Anything worth doing, is worth doing wrong."
> Do I misuse the prayers? I am sure, will God or anyone hold that againstmom
> me, I doubt it.
>
> Karen M.
> who still remembers the Jesus on the dashboard in the station wagon and
> sayin, "I don't care if it rains or freezes, long as I got my plasticMy grandma had St. Christopher (Patron Saint of Travellers)....Maybe plastic
> Jesus"
>
Jesus, too. What memories!
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> > If the Pope is still blessing and distributing rosaries, I think it's an
> > error to say << A person truly following the the Catholic faith does NOT
> pray
> > to Mary or to any of the Saints. >>
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > [email protected]
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> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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Joseph Fuerst
Maybe the language is a bit of a technicality...though it breeds
misunderstanding. I know the Hail, Mary is often thought of as a prayer.
But what does hail mean...isn't it merely a greeting. Catholics do believe
in having a special 'devotion' to Mary, but prayer and 'adoration' are for
God alone.
Other faiths that believe in eternal life speak with those passed on,
don't they. And does anyone consider it prayer when they "talk with"
deceased loved ones, or encounter them in a dream, or feel their presence?
S
PS. I know this may be somewhat sensitive for you at this time. I mean no
offense and sincerely hope you are doing well with recent personal events.
misunderstanding. I know the Hail, Mary is often thought of as a prayer.
But what does hail mean...isn't it merely a greeting. Catholics do believe
in having a special 'devotion' to Mary, but prayer and 'adoration' are for
God alone.
Other faiths that believe in eternal life speak with those passed on,
don't they. And does anyone consider it prayer when they "talk with"
deceased loved ones, or encounter them in a dream, or feel their presence?
S
PS. I know this may be somewhat sensitive for you at this time. I mean no
offense and sincerely hope you are doing well with recent personal events.
>
> On Fri, 21 Dec 2001 14:42:30 -0500 "Joseph Fuerst" <fuerst@...>
> writes:
> > A person truly following the the Catholic faith does NOT pray to
> > Mary or to
> > any of the Saints.
>
> "Hail Mary, full of Grace"?
>
> One prays to Mary or the saints to ask them to sort of pass your message
> along, at least according to the Catholicism I grew up in. I was with the
> sisters of Loretto in elementary school and the Carmelites for a year of
> high school.
>
> Dar
> ________________________________________________________________