Prejudice
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/21/2002 6:54:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
I have a cute kid, and people comment on it all the time. I suspect there's a
different tone to the compliments one gets sometimes.
As a lesbian family, when meeting new people, often people will volunteer
that THEY know a gay or lesbian person, or share that THEY believe "All love
is good, and I always tell my kids that." I got that from a few people at the
conference in SC. It's not a BAD thing, and I know they meant well.
HOWEVER....
One result is that I, and my family, are automatically separate, and
different. Most of me just accepts the good intentions of people, smiles, and
moves on, just a bit unconfortably. Part of me wants to ask them if they're
walking their talk, and fighting for the rights of gay people to marry in SC,
or wherever.
Sometimes people share in a different way, though, which lets you know
they're on board, and that FEELS different. I imagine there's quite a
difference between the casual "Oh, your child is so cute," that most of us
get, and a gushing OTHERNESS.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> << << The old ladies who just LOVE myI think there's a difference.
> kids, think they are so beautiful, and rave about them--they are trying
> to prove to themselves that they are not racist but I see right through
> them. >> >>
>
> When people tell me Holly's cute and nice, I never wonder about their
> motivations or beliefs. I assume they think she's cute. She's been
> hanging
> out a lot with Ramona King's family. All of them are African American, and
>
> BOTH parents say Holly is great at their house, very helpful, good kid,
> funny, smart. Are they somehow being racist? When Tam is here and I brag
> HER up for getting Holly more involved in art and music, am I being racist
>
> and Ramona can tell?
>
> IF every contact is racist, I don't know what we can do but avoid contact.
>
> That would be nuts.
>
> I think trusting people until they prove untrustworthy is better than any
> other considerations.
>
>
I have a cute kid, and people comment on it all the time. I suspect there's a
different tone to the compliments one gets sometimes.
As a lesbian family, when meeting new people, often people will volunteer
that THEY know a gay or lesbian person, or share that THEY believe "All love
is good, and I always tell my kids that." I got that from a few people at the
conference in SC. It's not a BAD thing, and I know they meant well.
HOWEVER....
One result is that I, and my family, are automatically separate, and
different. Most of me just accepts the good intentions of people, smiles, and
moves on, just a bit unconfortably. Part of me wants to ask them if they're
walking their talk, and fighting for the rights of gay people to marry in SC,
or wherever.
Sometimes people share in a different way, though, which lets you know
they're on board, and that FEELS different. I imagine there's quite a
difference between the casual "Oh, your child is so cute," that most of us
get, and a gushing OTHERNESS.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/22/2002 9:48:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,
KathrynJB@... writes:
We've missed you.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
KathrynJB@... writes:
> KathrynGlad you're back, Kathryn! I hope all's well with you, Beth, and Julian.
>
We've missed you.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Peggy
> Sometimes people share in a different way, though, which letsYes, that's it exactly: "OTHERNESS". The same way people gush over mixed race
>you know
>they're on board, and that FEELS different. I imagine there's
>quite a
>difference between the casual "Oh, your child is so cute," that
>most of us
>get, and a gushing OTHERNESS.
>
>Kathryn
kids and say things like, "Mixed kids are ALWAYS so beautiful." And while on
the surface that sounds a bit better than what one mom told me once when her
daughter was dating a black schoolmate, "You can't mix a skunk with a
raccoon." (as if interracial dating was inter species dating), it is still the
same "Otherness".
Peggy
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/22/2002 9:48:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,
KathrynJB@... writes:
"like" you. I've felt welcomed, but different and not "part of the group" at
gay parties (how CAN I be?). Most of the public schools in our area are 99%
black--including teachers (who's the minority there?). My friend Hugh
McGlinchy lived in Japan for a few years--it's an understatement that he
stuck out---he's a 6'8" red-headed Scot! <G>.
I think comments like "I have friends that are..." is often a way the speaker
uses to make the "outsider" more comfortable---but it often fails. It's an
attempt. Maybe they don't have the experience to say something
more....appropriate. That's the best they can come up with at the time.
Cute children are cute children. I doubt ugly children get that comment.
Duncan's friend Lizzie was adopted from China by a lesbian couple (illegally
in SC , BTW). She is absolutely beautiful (and a pistol! <g>) and is told
very often how cute/lovely/beautiful she is. She's adopted; she's chinese;
and she's got two mothers. Three strikes. Good thing she's a pistol! <G>
She's also one of the luckiest children in the whole world! (well, she might
be luckier if I could convince Rebecca to unschool! <beg>)
Prejudice is out there. And we could ALL be the recipient at some time. It
WON'T go away, but we can help our own children see what's important about
differences and similarities. And what's not.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
KathrynJB@... writes:
> One result is that I, and my family, are automatically separate, andI think it's normal to feel a bit uncomfortable around folks who are not
> different. Most of me just accepts the good intentions of people, smiles,
> and
> moves on, just a bit unconfortably.
"like" you. I've felt welcomed, but different and not "part of the group" at
gay parties (how CAN I be?). Most of the public schools in our area are 99%
black--including teachers (who's the minority there?). My friend Hugh
McGlinchy lived in Japan for a few years--it's an understatement that he
stuck out---he's a 6'8" red-headed Scot! <G>.
I think comments like "I have friends that are..." is often a way the speaker
uses to make the "outsider" more comfortable---but it often fails. It's an
attempt. Maybe they don't have the experience to say something
more....appropriate. That's the best they can come up with at the time.
Cute children are cute children. I doubt ugly children get that comment.
Duncan's friend Lizzie was adopted from China by a lesbian couple (illegally
in SC , BTW). She is absolutely beautiful (and a pistol! <g>) and is told
very often how cute/lovely/beautiful she is. She's adopted; she's chinese;
and she's got two mothers. Three strikes. Good thing she's a pistol! <G>
She's also one of the luckiest children in the whole world! (well, she might
be luckier if I could convince Rebecca to unschool! <beg>)
Prejudice is out there. And we could ALL be the recipient at some time. It
WON'T go away, but we can help our own children see what's important about
differences and similarities. And what's not.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joylyn
KathrynJB@... wrote:
always try to do so, but I'd be stupid to be blind to some of it.
Joylyn
>Yes, there is a big difference. You want to assume the best, and I
> >
>
> I think there's a difference.
> I have a cute kid, and people comment on it all the time. I suspect
> there's a
> different tone to the compliments one gets sometimes.
always try to do so, but I'd be stupid to be blind to some of it.
>Some of my best friends are black!
>
> As a lesbian family, when meeting new people, often people will volunteer
> that THEY know a gay or lesbian person,
> or share that THEY believe "All loveThe road to hell is paved with good intentions.
> is good, and I always tell my kids that." I got that from a few people
> at the
> conference in SC. It's not a BAD thing, and I know they meant well.
>yes, very different...
> HOWEVER....
>
> One result is that I, and my family, are automatically separate, and
> different. Most of me just accepts the good intentions of people,
> smiles, and
> moves on, just a bit unconfortably. Part of me wants to ask them if
> they're
> walking their talk, and fighting for the rights of gay people to marry
> in SC,
> or wherever.
>
> Sometimes people share in a different way, though, which lets you know
> they're on board, and that FEELS different. I imagine there's quite a
> difference between the casual "Oh, your child is so cute," that most
> of us
> get, and a gushing OTHERNESS.
Joylyn
Joylyn
kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
uncomfortable topic and brings up emotions doesn't help it get better.
joylyn
> Prejudice is out there. And we could ALL be the recipient at someBut only if we talk about it. Sweeping it under the rug because it's an
> time. It
> WON'T go away, but we can help our own children see what's important
> about
> differences and similarities. And what's not.
uncomfortable topic and brings up emotions doesn't help it get better.
joylyn
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/22/02 10:19:06 PM, joylyn@... writes:
<< But only if we talk about it. Sweeping it under the rug because it's an
uncomfortable topic and brings up emotions doesn't help it get better. >>
It's not swept under the rug.
It's just not going to become the main topic of this list.
Yahoogroups are free and easy to set up. If you set one up to discuss that,
I can send you the e-mail addresses of some people who would really be
interested who aren't on this list.
Sandra
<< But only if we talk about it. Sweeping it under the rug because it's an
uncomfortable topic and brings up emotions doesn't help it get better. >>
It's not swept under the rug.
It's just not going to become the main topic of this list.
Yahoogroups are free and easy to set up. If you set one up to discuss that,
I can send you the e-mail addresses of some people who would really be
interested who aren't on this list.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/23/02 4:42:27 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< Sometimes people share in a different way, though, which lets you know
they're on board, and that FEELS different. I imagine there's quite a
difference between the casual "Oh, your child is so cute," that most of us
get, and a gushing OTHERNESS.
they say something nice, I do understand what you're talking about here
Kathryn.
Only because at work, there is this very Southern Belle type woman (a
stereotype that has some truth to it) that I know has some racist feelings
due to comments she's made.
She's very, very syrupy and fake, I've caught her lying to me while being
super sweet....gag.
Any obviously not white children get the MOST gushy response from her, as
though she's trying to convince herself.
It's bizarre, but it's made me aware of what you described above.
Growing up in a racially mixed family sheltered me from a lot of realities
that I've had to face since leaving home, especially here in the South.
Ren
"The answers aren't important really...
What's important, is knowing all the questions."
-Zilpha Keatley Snyder
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
[email protected] writes:
<< Sometimes people share in a different way, though, which lets you know
they're on board, and that FEELS different. I imagine there's quite a
difference between the casual "Oh, your child is so cute," that most of us
get, and a gushing OTHERNESS.
>>While I still think it's insane to try and judge other people's motives when
they say something nice, I do understand what you're talking about here
Kathryn.
Only because at work, there is this very Southern Belle type woman (a
stereotype that has some truth to it) that I know has some racist feelings
due to comments she's made.
She's very, very syrupy and fake, I've caught her lying to me while being
super sweet....gag.
Any obviously not white children get the MOST gushy response from her, as
though she's trying to convince herself.
It's bizarre, but it's made me aware of what you described above.
Growing up in a racially mixed family sheltered me from a lot of realities
that I've had to face since leaving home, especially here in the South.
Ren
"The answers aren't important really...
What's important, is knowing all the questions."
-Zilpha Keatley Snyder
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/23/02 4:42:27 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< People fumbling all over themselves, gushing, "some of my best friends
are....", you know. It really is different. The radar goes way up. >>
I think that is different than anyone that gushes over your kids.
I'm sure there are many moments that are going to make you wonder....but I
still thinks it's best to not assume some kind of prejudice unless it's
obvious.
I do understand the gushy thing, because of the lady I see at work that I
mentioned in a previous post. But in this life, assuming good will is far
better than other choices.
I hate to think that every mixed race parent that I say how cute their child
is, makes me out to be some suspect that has hang ups.
I say that to a LOT of kids, because I really think they are cute. White,
Black, Asian....it matters not one whit to me.
It just makes me think maybe y'all would prefer us to not ever say anything
nice about your child? I will just continue to be myself. I like children, I
think lots of them are cute, and I'm not going to be afraid that someone
thinks I'm trying to cover some racial feelings by saying their child is
pretty.
Mixed race is such a catch phrase too. Anglo people are usually a LOT of
races....so it all just seems so silly to me.
But I grew up rather sheltered from racism.
Ren
"The answers aren't important really...
What's important, is knowing all the questions."
-Zilpha Keatley Snyder
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
[email protected] writes:
<< People fumbling all over themselves, gushing, "some of my best friends
are....", you know. It really is different. The radar goes way up. >>
I think that is different than anyone that gushes over your kids.
I'm sure there are many moments that are going to make you wonder....but I
still thinks it's best to not assume some kind of prejudice unless it's
obvious.
I do understand the gushy thing, because of the lady I see at work that I
mentioned in a previous post. But in this life, assuming good will is far
better than other choices.
I hate to think that every mixed race parent that I say how cute their child
is, makes me out to be some suspect that has hang ups.
I say that to a LOT of kids, because I really think they are cute. White,
Black, Asian....it matters not one whit to me.
It just makes me think maybe y'all would prefer us to not ever say anything
nice about your child? I will just continue to be myself. I like children, I
think lots of them are cute, and I'm not going to be afraid that someone
thinks I'm trying to cover some racial feelings by saying their child is
pretty.
Mixed race is such a catch phrase too. Anglo people are usually a LOT of
races....so it all just seems so silly to me.
But I grew up rather sheltered from racism.
Ren
"The answers aren't important really...
What's important, is knowing all the questions."
-Zilpha Keatley Snyder
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/23/2002 10:34:29 AM Eastern Standard Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
starsuncloud@... writes:
> She's very, very syrupy and fake, I've caught her lying to me while beingI didn't know you knew my mother! And what's she doing in Pensacola?!!
> super sweet....gag.
>
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]