[email protected]

OK, This is what I got in the mail today...

Don't Mess with Mothers....

>
> My son came home from school one day,
> with a smirk upon his face.
> He decided he was smart enough
to put me in my place.
>
>
> Guess what I learned in Civics Two,
> that's taught by Mr. Wright?
> It's all about the laws today,
> The "Children's Bill of Rights."
>
> It says I need not clean my room,
> don't have to cut my hair.
> No one can tell me what to think,
> or speak, or what to wear.
>
> I have freedom from religion,
> and regardless what you say,
> I don't have to bow my head,
and I sure don't have to pray.

> I can wear earrings if I want,
>
and pierce my tongue & nose.
> I can read & watch just what I like,
> get tattoos from head to toe.
>
> And if you ever spank me,
> I'll charge you with a crime.
> I'll back up all my charges,
> with the marks on my behind.
>
> Don't you ever touch me,
> my body's only for my use,
> not for your hugs and kissess,
> that's just more child abuse.
>

Don't preach about your morals,
> like your Mama did to you.
> That's nothing more than mind control,
> And it's illegal too!
>
> Mom, I have these children's rights,
> so you can't influence me,
> or I'll call Children's Services Division,
> better know as C.S.D.
>
> Of course my first instinct was
> to toss him out the door.
> But the chance to teach him a lesson
> made me think a little more.
>
> I mulled it over carefully,
> I couldn't let this go.
> A smile crept upon my face,
> he's messing with a pro.
>
> Next day I took him shopping
> at the local Goodwill Store.
> I told him, "Pick out all you want,
> there's shirts & pants galore.
>
> I've called and checked with C.S.D.
> who said they didn't care
> if I bought you K-Mart shoes
instead of those Nike Airs.
>
>
> I've cancelled that appointment
> to take your driver's test.
> The C.S.D. is unconcerned
> so I'll decide what's best.
>
> I said "No time to stop and eat,
> or pick up stuff to munch.
> And tomorrow you can start to learn
> to make your own sack lunch.
>
> Just save the raging appetite,
> and wait till dinner time.
> We're having liver and onions,
> a favorite dish of mine.
>
> He asked ""Can I please rent a movie,
> to watch on my VCR?
> "Sorry, but I sold your TV,
> for new tires on my car.
>
> I also rented out your room,
> you'll take the couch instead.
> The C.S.D. requires
> just a roof over your head.
>
> Your clothing won't be trendy now,
> I'll choose what we eat.
> That allowance that you used to get,
> will buy me something neat.
>
> I'm selling off your jet ski,
> dirt-bike & roller blades.
> Check out the "Parents Bill of Rights,"
> It's in effect today!
>
> Hey hot shot, are you crying,
why are you on your knees?
> Are you asking God to help you out,
> instead of C.S.D..?
>
> Send to all people that have teenagers or have already
> raised teenagers, or have children who will soon be
> teenagers or those who will be parents someday
> OR ANYONE WHO'D JUST GET A LAUGH ...
> I love this One!!!
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stephanie Elms

Geesh! My kids are only 5 and 2 but I hope that I NEVER feel this way
about them when they are teenagers. How sad that this is supposed to be
funny....

One of the things that really appeals to me about unschooling is reading
about the relationships that folks here have with their older kids.
That is what I am striving for...

Stephanie E.

Joylyn

I agree with this. I didn't find it funny at all.

Joylyn

Stephanie Elms wrote:

> Geesh! My kids are only 5 and 2 but I hope that I NEVER feel this way
> about them when they are teenagers. How sad that this is supposed to be
> funny....
>
> One of the things that really appeals to me about unschooling is reading
> about the relationships that folks here have with their older kids.
> That is what I am striving for...
>
> Stephanie E.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.

Pam Sorooshian

Made me want to go hug my teenagers. Sheesh. Pathetic.

I've been wasting my time, browsing around on some websites that support
things that are just making me absolutely sick. Its been a long time since
I looked at this stuff and I'd "softened" it a bit, in my mind. Its much
worse than I even remembered.

Don't read it if you're upset by stuff like this -- but this is an article
telling a mom of a THREE yo how to beat her child into being submissive -
yes it is a homeschooling website: http://nogreaterjoy.org/will_to_dominate.htm

At 08:46 PM 11/8/2002, you wrote:

>I agree with this. I didn't find it funny at all.
>
>Joylyn
>
>Stephanie Elms wrote:
>
> > Geesh! My kids are only 5 and 2 but I hope that I NEVER feel this way
> > about them when they are teenagers. How sad that this is supposed to be
> > funny....
> >
> > One of the things that really appeals to me about unschooling is reading
> > about the relationships that folks here have with their older kids.
> > That is what I am striving for...
> >
> > Stephanie E.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > [email protected]
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>[email protected]
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Pam Sorooshian
National Home Education Network
www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/8/02 9:29:39 PM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:

<<
Don't Mess with Mothers.... >>

Wow.

THERE is an antagonistic view of the world!

We have nowhere to go here. My kids pretty much prefer thrift store stuff,
except for pants from the military surplus.

Of course, what kind of mother AM I?

Last night I let Marty spend the night at his friend's house with nobody else
there (easy phone access to friend's grandmother and me, but still...), and
Kirby just didn't come home and didn't tell me where he was going. I'd bet
(and win, no doubt) he's at his friend Leif's house, who was out of town last
weekend. This afternoon they'll all be home because there's a gaming session
planned here.

I'd love to make them snacks, but I can't get upstairs yet.

Sandra

Peggy

Is this the Pearls? I feel so bad for that little girl. That teenage thing was
stupid too. I thought even those who advocate spanking recognize that it
doesn't work on teens? Where do they call it the CSD?

Peggy


>From: Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>

> Made me want to go hug my teenagers. Sheesh. Pathetic.
>
> I've been wasting my time, browsing around on some websites that support
> things that are just making me absolutely sick. Its been a long time since
> I looked at this stuff and I'd "softened" it a bit, in my mind. Its much
> worse than I even remembered.
>
> Don't read it if you're upset by stuff like this -- but this is an article
> telling a mom of a THREE yo how to beat her child into being submissive -
> yes it is a homeschooling website: http://nogreaterjoy.org/will_to_dominate.htm
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/9/02 11:29:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,
peggy@... writes:

> http://nogreaterjoy.org/will_to_dominate.htm
>

I had no idea of the extent that these people go to in spanking. This is
child abuse. How is this legal to promote?
I can't even find the words to express my horror.
Elissa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shyrley

On 9 Nov 02, at 14:07, Earthmomma67@... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/9/02 11:29:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> peggy@... writes:
>
> > http://nogreaterjoy.org/will_to_dominate.htm
> >
>
> I had no idea of the extent that these people go to in spanking. This
> is child abuse. How is this legal to promote? I can't even find the
> words to express my horror. Elissa
>
I read through that. It was horrible. That poor little girl.
In Sweden it is illegal to hit or bully a child. Much as I hate Govt
laws and interferance, we need some like that here :-(

Shyrley


"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/8/02 11:00:15 PM Central Standard Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:

> Don't read it if you're upset by stuff like this -- but this is an article
> telling a mom of a THREE yo how to beat her child into being submissive -
> yes it is a homeschooling website:
> http://nogreaterjoy.org/will_to_dominate.htm
>

I found my jaw this morning. It fell on the floor and rolled away when I read
this last night. Today I thought I would browse around this site, maybe to
see if there was anything better? Maybe some masochistic feeling I had to
placate in myself? I found a horrific article on how to *train* a three month
old! And another that discussed the finer points of spanking, and what
implement of plumbing fixtures was best fit for bequeathing a beating upon
children. (Remember to always swat yourself on the leg first to remind how
hard to hit.) Another discussed breastfeeding, and how to properly train new
babies to only nurse when it is convenient for mom. No nursing on demand, you
will soon have a spoiled child on your hands! Then I found an article that I
thought might be the one redeeming factor, a ray of light perhaps? It started
with, what I thought sounded like some good Unschooling thoughts. I was
beginning to think that maybe this might be one article I could recommend to
Christian homeschoolers wondering how to fit Unschooling and Christianity
together. But the article, which started out so promising, had this to say
about the roles girls and boys play in life. If only the author had been able
to omit the three sentences at the end!

Maybe you could follow this rule: If a workbook can be enjoyed by the
children, if they desire to do it just for fun, then it cannot be harmful
unless they become so absorbed in books that they neglect the important
social and work aspects of family. Except on rare occasions, book studies
should never consume a large part of the day. Children should be engaged in
work and play with their families. A young daughter needs to begin early
learning and practicing to be a wife, mother, and home-keeper. A boy should
begin early, two years old, practicing to be the man of the house and the
President of the United States. He should be given responsibility and an
important role in sustaining the family. Our first concern should be the
development of character, work ethic, and personal confidence.

You can read the whole article here.
http://nogreaterjoy.org/ngjw1/037%20Curriculum.htm


~Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

marji

At 18:40 11/9/02 -0500, Nancy wrote:
>In a message dated 11/8/02 11:00:15 PM Central Standard Time,
>pamsoroosh@... writes:
>
> > Don't read it if you're upset by stuff like this -- but this is an article
> > telling a mom of a THREE yo how to beat her child into being submissive -
> > yes it is a homeschooling website:
> > http://nogreaterjoy.org/will_to_dominate.htm
> >
>
>I found my jaw this morning. It fell on the floor and rolled away when I read
>this last night. Today I thought I would browse around this site, maybe to
>see if there was anything better? ... (snip)
>
>(snip) You can read the whole article here.
>http://nogreaterjoy.org/ngjw1/037%20Curriculum.htm
>
>
>~Nancy

Shades of Ezzo, right?

I guess I could go and read the whole article, but I'm not sure why I would
want to. Maybe instead I'll take your good word on this one and go hug my
son! Yeah.

Thanks for posting the link, though.

Love,

Marji


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nancy Wooton

on 11/9/02 3:40 PM, Dnowens@... at Dnowens@... wrote:

> A boy should
> begin early, two years old, practicing to be the man of the house and the
> President of the United States. He should be given responsibility and an
> important role in sustaining the family. Our first concern should be the
> development of character, work ethic, and personal confidence.

So would a *son* who displayed the gumption of the girl in the first article
be beaten into submission, too, or trained for the Presidency? It takes a
major ego to run for office; and of course, a woman wouldn't ever do that.

Criminy.

Nancy

callymom2000

> Don't read it if you're upset by stuff like this -- but this is an
article
> > telling a mom of a THREE yo how to beat her child into being
submissive -
> > yes it is a homeschooling website:
> > http://nogreaterjoy.org/will_to_dominate.htm


Oh!.....I am sick to my core. And almost ashamed to admit I am a
Christian. I found this sentence, written by the man offering
advice, "When they do something lovely, then you can love them."
Unbelieveable! Oh....this hurts....

Cally

Jeff & Kate Kerr

****A boy should begin early, two years old, practicing to be the man of
the house and the
President of the United States. He should be given responsibility and an

important role in sustaining the family. Our first concern should be the

development of character, work ethic, and personal confidence.

So would a *son* who displayed the gumption of the girl in the first
article
be beaten into submission, too, or trained for the Presidency? It takes
a
major ego to run for office; and of course, a woman wouldn't ever do
that.
Criminy.****


Oh boy! My son would be in so much trouble if he were being raised in
this type of atmosphere! He asked me one day (about 4 years ago) if he
could have a sparkly dress like Ginger Rogers (we used to watch a lot of
Fred and Ginger movies). Not only could he have one but I let him pick
out the material and the pattern! He helped me make it. The dress is
gone now (too small, ripped the hem out etc...) but it has been replaced
by a few handpicked bras and some very wonderful, sensual velvet tops.

He doesn't wear them outside the house anymore (he has noticed, at 7
1/2, that men don't wear these things), but he wears them at home,
lounging around watching movies or building with his legos.

His father and I are proud of him and it would never occur to us to
punish him for this.

I'm not even sure what to say next. I went to the site and read for a
few hours today and am floored that this is the norm in some circles.
Actually, I'm sure that I know people who do this (no proof though - I'm
not Christian, so I'm not confided in).

I'll stop now, my brain has a hard time wrapping around this.

Kate

Stephanie Elms

I can not imagine living my life like this! Always in a battle with my child,
having to stay on top of him lest he get the better of me and "win".

How sad for those poor children. And how sad that their parents will never get to
truly enjoy them. How can people believe this crap?

Stephanie E.

Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema

At 06:40 PM 11/9/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>I found my jaw this morning. It fell on the floor and rolled away when I read
>this last night. Today I thought I would browse around this site, maybe to
>see if there was anything better? Maybe some masochistic feeling I had to
>placate in myself? I found a horrific article on how to *train* a three month
>old! And another that discussed the finer points of spanking, and what
>implement of plumbing fixtures was best fit for bequeathing a beating upon
>children.

Oh, uhg!
Don't you just get the worst feeling in the pit of your stomach when this
stuff shows up...
It just makes me want to do a crisis intervention - like they do for people
caught up in cults.
I'm off to hug my teenaged babies.
Heidi

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/9/02 10:12:56 PM, stephanie.elms@...
writes:

<< How sad for those poor children. And how sad that their parents will never
get to
truly enjoy them. How can people believe this crap?
>>

They believe that crap because they are wounded by cruel upbringing and they
re-enact it to justify it, I think.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/10/02 7:12:18 AM, heidi@... writes:

<< Don't you just get the worst feeling in the pit of your stomach when this
stuff shows up...
It just makes me want to do a crisis intervention - like they do for people
caught up in cults.
I'm off to hug my teenaged babies. >>

I'm not going to read it, because I've read those things before. It should
be illegal, but "religious persecution" starts being yelled.

But as to rescue missions, I think being unschooling guides is a big part of
that.

I was thinking last night about how much energy and time I put into just
helping people up another step. Whatever step they're on to a higher one.
And how many of them tell me to get screwed and leave them along.

And I thought about arrogance, and wondered whether that's just really all it
is. Because people have said "You think your way is superior to mine; that's
arrogance."

Those Christians who beat babies think their way is superior to mine. Is
this to come under "You're your child's best teacher..."
"You're the expert on your child..."
"Whatever works is what you should do..."

I hate those kinds of placating statements. Does that mean I'm arrogant?

Maybe I just have genetic matches for me and a man I would choose to spend
most of my life with. Maybe that's why they're reasonable and interesting.
Maybe it has nothing to do with the respect and joy we showed them.

I THINK it does have.

I'm not willing to salve myself with "Well, let people do what they're doing
without pointing out to them where you think they're wrong."

It has the feeling of being a mission from God (at least Blues Brothers
style, if not St. Francis or Mother Teresa style).

Sandra

Betsy

**And I thought about arrogance, and wondered whether that's just really
all it is. Because people have said "You think your way is superior to
mine; that's arrogance."**


To an obedience-oriented person the fact that you have your own
judgement and use it must seem pretty uppity. :-)

Betsy

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/10/02 9:23:17 AM, ecsamhill@... writes:

<< To an obedience-oriented person the fact that you have your own
judgement and use it must seem pretty uppity. >>

Maybe that's it. On what "authority" am I saying people should try just
letting their kids play all the video games they want to?

Sandra

Peggy

From: "Stephanie Elms" <stephanie.elms@...>

> I can not imagine living my life like this! Always in a battle with my child,
> having to stay on top of him lest he get the better of me and "win".
>
> How sad for those poor children. And how sad that their parents will never get to
> truly enjoy them. How can people believe this crap?

Great numbers of them do believe it, just as at the turn of the last century
the same sort of advice was handed out in secular pamphlets and books on child
raising and hundreds of thousands followed similar advice. These theories or
practices aren't new. The people who promote this kind of child abuse *know*
the dynamics of abuse, they *know* that children so mistreated and offered no
way out and forced to honor and obey those that pound and pummel maiming blows
on their bodies and minds will repress the knowledge (for what child could
live with the knowledge of what is being done to them by their only hope of
life?), and pass on to their own children the same lack of empathy and legacy
of violence and unfeeling.

Those who promote this at the highest levels do so with awareness of the harm
caused and a specific goal in mind: to create soldiers, and war's surrounding
support systems, to spread *their* brand of religion, for this is how you sow
the seeds of warriors across the land. Make no mistake they are not unaware
that violence begets violence and that is why it is so important that the
"troops" learn early, and learn well the lessons of hierarchy and
unquestioning obedience. It is holy jihad.

Peggy

Tia Leschke

>
> Maybe that's it. On what "authority" am I saying people should try just
> letting their kids play all the video games they want to?

But you're on a mission from Dodd.
%^ )
Tia

Tia Leschke

> Those who promote this at the highest levels do so with awareness of the
harm
> caused and a specific goal in mind: to create soldiers, and war's
surrounding
> support systems, to spread *their* brand of religion, for this is how you
sow
> the seeds of warriors across the land. Make no mistake they are not
unaware
> that violence begets violence and that is why it is so important that the
> "troops" learn early, and learn well the lessons of hierarchy and
> unquestioning obedience. It is holy jihad.

I'm not sure I wanted to start my day with this thought, but I think you're
probably right.
Tia

Peggy

Sandra Dodd wrote:

>And I thought about arrogance, and wondered whether that's just really
>all it
>is. Because people have said "You think your way is superior to mine;
>that's
>arrogance."

How arrogant can it be to stand up for the rights of children not to be
mistreated? Hardly anyone will support or even see the need for such a
position. The great majority of texts, laws, and concerns by real people will
be on the side of protecting the parent's rights to mistreat their children.
Surely the arrogance is on the majority side?

>
>Those Christians who beat babies think their way is superior to mine.
>Is
>this to come under "You're your child's best teacher..."
>"You're the expert on your child..."
>"Whatever works is what you should do..."
>
>I hate those kinds of placating statements. Does that mean I'm
>arrogant?

arrogant - characterized or proceeding from overbearing superiority or
self-importance.

Does this come from arrogate?

arrogate - to claim or appropriate without right.

I dunno, I think it takes a bit of hard core arrogance to stand up against the
pig headedness of those who would go along with practices that clearly harm.
When those harmful practices are directed at the most vulnerable members of a
society, babies and children, is it arrogant to continue to rail at the
injustice?

The truth is we have undisputed scientific proof that beating babies and
children causes life long harm, that their very brain patterns are disturbed
and maimed.

Perhaps in the near future we will also have medical proof that self directed
learning is the best kind of learning to support an individual through out
their whole lifetime. That this kind of learning is the best kind of learning
for our human types of organisms.

Since it isn't provable at this point beyond personal experience, why should
the teaching theory that advocates using the carrot and a stick method hold
more weight than the personal experience of individual families who have found
that the carrot and the stick approach distorts and limits the potential of
the human mind to learn?

Isn't taking a position inherently arrogant?


>Maybe I just have genetic matches for me and a man I would choose to
> spend
>most of my life with. Maybe that's why they're reasonable and
>interesting.
>Maybe it has nothing to do with the respect and joy we showed them.
>
>I THINK it does have.

It would be so simple if we were little examinable separate parts that could
be dissected cleanly. Teaching and learning separate from our emotions, our
history, our hopes for the future, or our economic and political realities.
But this isn't possible. How we view our children affects them and us from the
very first contact. How we ourselves were treated as children continues to
color and shape our views all through our adulthood. I believe passionately
that all children are born innocent, and baring organic disease, if treated
with loving kindness and generosity will become kind and generous and loving.
There are those who just as passionately believe that children are born in sin
and only through strict training and diligence on the part of their caretakers
will that sin be kept at bay. Both of us have a fertile ground to sow our
theories because the early pre-verbal years of a child's life are shape able
in ways that we used to know only instinctively and now know medically. We now
know that early mental and physical experience literally forms children and
their emotions and brain patterns. We create our children, in our own image,
by our actions; they become what we do to them.

>
> I'm not willing to salve myself with "Well, let people do what they're
>doing
>without pointing out to them where you think they're wrong."
>
>It has the feeling of being a mission from God (at least Blues Brothers
>
>style, if not St. Francis or Mother Teresa style).
>
>Sandra

Taking a stand always has risks. I believe not taking a stand when one
believes that harm will come from keeping silent is evil. I guess the
important thing to consider is how the rights of others are considered when
one takes a stand. A stand that forces others to bend their individual will to
others point of view against their individual experience would have the
potential for great evil.

"I believe and so must you unthinkingly," is different from "I believe this
and I want you to think about it too."

Peggy

Betsy

**Those who promote this at the highest levels do so with awareness of
the harm
caused and a specific goal in mind: to create soldiers, and war's surrounding
support systems, to spread *their* brand of religion, for this is how
you sow
the seeds of warriors across the land. Make no mistake they are not unaware
that violence begets violence and that is why it is so important that the
"troops" learn early, and learn well the lessons of hierarchy and
unquestioning obedience. It is holy jihad.**

I read some good thoughts, I think by John Taylor Gatto, that pointed
out how much the education system in our country uses militaristic language.

Betsy

Betsy

**> Maybe that's it. On what "authority" am I saying people should try
just
> letting their kids play all the video games they want to?

But you're on a mission from Dodd.
%^ )
Tia

**


I know this stuff is funny to US, but I hate to give the
Sandra-detractors ammunition to use out of context to say "She thinks
she's God."

Betsy

Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema

At 12:07 PM 11/10/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>**> Maybe that's it. On what "authority" am I saying people should try
>just
> > letting their kids play all the video games they want to?

Get yer'self quoted in Newsweek or Time magazine. You'll be an Instant
Expert, sought after for conferences, weddings and bar mitzvahs.
Heidi

Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema

Hi all,
I know all the Unschooling keeps us jumping, but I thought I might pass
along this 'resource' for y'all to play around with during your spare
moments (between 1 and 1:14am.)
They're some wonderful online games, free and easy to figure out with short
time limits so you won't be stuck forever and a day finishing the game...
and they're graphically gorgeous (at least *I* think so!)
http://www.ferryhalim.com/orisinal/

My favorite so far is 'Among the Clouds'... I think it might be the
peaceful music and the cute little kid in the balloon. (It's also pretty
easy, once you realize that you can move your mouse *backwards* to slow
down the balloon!)

Enjoy!
Heidi

Shyrley

Thought I'd turn to all you wise minds about my daughter.
She's 10 and over the past year has developed increasingly bizarre
fears. She's frightened of vampires, she's afraid to spend the night
anywhere in case her friends turn into aliens.
She refuses to go to bed or sleep until I do because of these fears.
This is playing hell with my love life and DH is increasingly angry
that I don't punish her. It's also making her very very tired. I don't
tend to sleep until 3 or 4am, I never have done, so she is forcing
herself to stay up that late. She has bags under her eyes as she's
one of those people who wake up when the sun does, despite
going to sleep so late.
She sleeps in with me as she's too afraid to sleep alone.

Her fears are increasing and becoming more and more weird. I
don't know what to do. I've tried talking to her, lettting her sleep in
my room. Tonight I got cross cos its 1am and she's sobbing with
tiredness and fear. She's got all the upstairs lights on which is
disturbing her brothers and I feel cross cos I don't want to go to bed
yet. DH has stormed off to bed cos he has to get up early to go to
work and he was hopeful.

Any suggestions?

Shyrley


"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."

Pam Hartley

Can you get her some kind of pallet or one of those fold-out futons so that
she can lay down (and hopefully drop off) wherever you are even if you're
not ready to sleep yet? You might have to confine yourself to one room after
she brings her pallet there and passes out, but at least it'll be start in
getting her past sleep deprivation.

Do you have a large dog, and if not could you get one? When I was young and
frightened of being alone, it helped a lot to have our German Shepherd cross
with me.

I don't know why your husband thinks punishing her would make her less
fearful -- does he say?

Ten is hard -- hormone changes, bigger understanding of the evil in the wide
scary world out there.

Pam

----------
>From: "Shyrley" <shyrley.williams@...>
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [AlwaysLearning] A Dilemma
>Date: Sun, Nov 10, 2002, 9:24 PM
>

> Thought I'd turn to all you wise minds about my daughter.
> She's 10 and over the past year has developed increasingly bizarre
> fears. She's frightened of vampires, she's afraid to spend the night
> anywhere in case her friends turn into aliens.
> She refuses to go to bed or sleep until I do because of these fears.
> This is playing hell with my love life and DH is increasingly angry
> that I don't punish her. It's also making her very very tired. I don't
> tend to sleep until 3 or 4am, I never have done, so she is forcing
> herself to stay up that late. She has bags under her eyes as she's
> one of those people who wake up when the sun does, despite
> going to sleep so late.
> She sleeps in with me as she's too afraid to sleep alone.
>
> Her fears are increasing and becoming more and more weird. I
> don't know what to do. I've tried talking to her, lettting her sleep in
> my room. Tonight I got cross cos its 1am and she's sobbing with
> tiredness and fear. She's got all the upstairs lights on which is
> disturbing her brothers and I feel cross cos I don't want to go to bed
> yet. DH has stormed off to bed cos he has to get up early to go to
> work and he was hopeful.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Shyrley
>
>
> "You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all
> the same."
>
>
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>

Deborah Lewis

Shyrley,
You've been through a frightening time there with the snipers and all of
it on the news all the time. Sometimes I think when kids aren't sure
about things their fears can get blown way out of proportion. Do you
think there could be a connection?
She may have gotten the idea or heard, "no one's safe" during the
shootings and now really feels there is no way to be safe. When kids
start to think that even their parents can't keep them safe danger can
seem big and it can be everywhere, kind of supernatural.

It might help to keep talking to her about the different ways you can
keep her safe.

Would it help to make a magic charm against the danger?

Calcium is a mild kind of calming agent, and there are homeopathic
remedies to help with stress. Warm baths and back rubs, foot massages
all those things can contribute to a feeling of well being. Lavender
oil or sandalwood for aroma therapy.

Does she like exercise? Our bodies make naturally calming chemicals
during and after exercise and maybe getting out and swimming or running
or bouncing on the trampoline would help. You'd be surprised how many
people use exercise for anxiety control.

I'm sorry she's having a hard time. = (

Deb L