page 8 of The Big Book of Unschooling (2009 edition)
online chat,

Sandra Dodd left this message :

On facebook this morning, Sylvia Toyama wrote this:

In my experience, learning how to create a home for my family where unschooling will thrive, where children will grow with passion and a sense of wonder, and where we will all continue to learn and grow is absolutely a skillset. I've met a few parents calling themselves unschoolers, who talked a good game and clearly felt they had the mindset of an unschooler. But when it came time to actually walk the walk by spending time truly with their child -- not just in the same room or house, but truly present in their child's life -- they were simply all talk, and it showed in their kids' unhappiness and inability to get along with others.

Today's chat will be on how to screw it up, ("Cautions," page 8 of the Big Book) and I thought this quote was a good fit.

Sandra Dodd joined the chat

meredith joined the chat

Jill Parmer joined the chat

AlexPolykow joined the chat

ColleenP joined the chat

Chris Sanders joined the chat

Darcel joined the chat

Robin Bentley joined the chat

Darcel: hello all

Robin Bentley: Hi Darcel and everyone.

Chris Sanders: Hi

Sandra Dodd: Hi. I slid in. My browser was frozen for a minute. Holly and I are working on magnets to sell at the Good Vibrations conference. :-)

Darcel: hey Robin, Chris, Sandra

Sandra Dodd: I opened so many windows that Safari choked.

Jill Parmer: Hello all. (Sandra, will you post a picture of the magnets?)

Robin Bentley: Yeah, mine froze this morning, too.

Chris Sanders: I do that with tabs sometimes.

Sandra Dodd: Eventually, maybe, Jill. :-)

Sandra Dodd: But they're pictures that have been in Just Add Light, and quotes, but not necessarily the quote that originally came with the photo. /magnets

Sandra Dodd: Short quotes.

Sandra Dodd: Darcel, are things going okay with you?

Jill Parmer: ah, nice.

Robin Bentley: Ooh, I'd like those, Sandra.

Renee Smock joined the chat

Darcel: I can't complain. Focusing on what I can change, myself. I have been having a hard time with unschooling lately.

Serah joined the chat

AlexPolykow: Hi everyone. I am going to eat while I lurk for a while unless I have a really good idea to share.

Jill Parmer: How old are your children, Darcel?

Darcel: I'm very happy to be in this chat....cause I need it!

Darcel: My kids are 6,4, and 1

Sandra Dodd: When we have ten people, we can start, and the topic today is what's on page 8 of the Big Book (Cautions) and secondarily, the link to "gradual change"

ColleenP: hi everyone!

Sandra Dodd: /gradualchange

Darcel: Hi Colleen

Rebecca Allen joined the chat

Serah: hello everyone

Rebecca Allen: Hello!

Darcel: I won't be able to stay for the entire chat, probably an hour though.

Robin Bentley: So, can we help with anything, Darcel?

Chris Sanders: We're at 10 now? I like the suggestion to do "what you understand while seeking to understand even more."

Robin Bentley: Maybe the topic will help, Darcel.

Chris Sanders: Sorry, had that one loaded and ready to fire... :)

Sandra Dodd: Darcel, will the regular topic be helpful to you in your situation? If not, we can take some time to discuss your particulars.

Sandra Dodd: Holly's sensible proposal was that each two hour chat should stay on topic for an hour, maybe the middle hour. :-)

Sandra Dodd: She's sitting here, but doing something else.

Darcel: I think my issues go along with the subject. I've been doubting myself lately, friends coming to me talking about curriculum and such.

Robin Bentley: Your kids are little!

Sandra Dodd: Okay, good.

Sandra Dodd: So going too far too fast is a problem.

Sandra Dodd: People get lost, philosophically.

Rebecca Allen: Are you feeling the back to school pressure? I take it your 6 year old would be going to school this year if not for unschooling. My daughter (only child) is also 6.

Darcel: Yes, I'm feeling lost and alone.

Chris Sanders: Now you're found! ;-) Glad you're here then.

Darcel: right, we enrolled in a homeschool co-op last year, and that is every Friday. We start back in September.

Rebecca Allen: How long have you been getting into an unschooling mindset?

Jill Parmer: I can attest to the "too far to fast" problem. I did that, scared my husband, had to clean up the mess. I was really jealous when Sandra made the statement, Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch.

Sandra Dodd: There is something that might help (it might hurt, but it might help :-) about how to keep records on what you do. I wouldn't share that much with the kids, but if it would make you, your husband, your friends, feel more solidly in the world, Brie Jontry wrote up and did videos about the recordkeeping she's doing (Pennsylvania has lots of rules)

Sandra Dodd: /portfolio

Sandra Dodd: I'm NOT saying it's necessary. I'm saying it might be better than lost and alone.

Darcel: Spring of 2009 is when we started, but my oldest was only 4 then. I'm quite nervous about end of the year testing and record keeping.

AlexPolykow: where are you Darcel?

Chris Sanders: Did you have to register that you were homeschooling in Spring 2009??

Darcel: Thanks for the link. I have been looking for something like that...going to book mark it and look it over better tonight.

Darcel: VA Beach, and we didn't have to register, this is my first year sending in our notice of intent.

AlexPolykow: Do you know any other unschooling family in Virginia that can help you with that? Maybe is not as hard as you fear.

Darcel: Even with my Attachment Parenting friends some of them have no respect for their children and I don't want or need to be around that. I certainly don't need people like that telling me what to do with my kids.

Sandra Dodd: Sometimes having a witness helps. A friend to help, a local mentor, a team, even an imaginary witness.

Darcel: There are plenty of people who call themselves unschoolers :)

Jill Parmer: About confidence in homeschooling laws, I went over the laws of my state, every time I had a question. It gave me so much confidence, no one could tell me they "heard" this about homeschooling, nor scare me.

Sandra Dodd: Well if you decide on your own focus--respect for your children--and then make all your decisions with that as your first dividing point, that might help.

AlexPolykow: Do you need to provide test score to the school district? In Minnesota you test annually but only the parent gets the score> we do a Peabody oral test that is very child friendly.

Marta BP joined the chat

Robin Bentley: Darcel, you don't have to test in Virginia - you can get assessments done.

Sandra Dodd: I did that about New Mexico laws when Kirby was little. I could recite some of it, and sometimes I did. :-)

Chris Sanders: I second what Jill says -- familiarize yourself with the law using primary resources

AlexPolykow: I know everything about MInnesota laws... but then again it is the lawyer in me.

Jenor joined the chat

Darcel: I really need to read up more on the laws. I don't know why I'm letting what other people think of us unschooling bother me so much.

Sandra Dodd: And when the laws changed, I knew what had changed. And when it changed the NEXT time, I didn't care anymore. :-)

Robin Bentley: This might help - http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/laws... The laws are similar to WA state's. Easy to comply.

ColleenP: We did the same with NH laws - made sure to read and know them ourselves so we couldn't get confused by anyone else's (mis)interpretation

Sandra Dodd: Darcel, the scales will tip as you get more experience.

Jill Parmer: I'm not a lawyer, and sometimes the words in the law confused me. Then I used an online legal dictionary. So fascinating.

Sandra Dodd: And I think a mantra like "We're going to try this for now" can buy you time and peace, both internally and externally.

Darcel: Did anyone else feel like you weren't doing enough when your kids were little? I love watching our journey unfold through simply living, but then I start to feel more needs to be done.

AlexPolykow: Are you feeling insecure your children are not going to learn to read or basics?? (many parents fear that when kids reach a certain age or school age)

Darcel: I've said we're doing this because it works for us now, in a year we will see where we are.

Rebecca Allen: Maybe don't give other people that year timeline.

ColleenP: Darcel do you take lots of photos of your days? I do, and I've found that if I look back at the photos, it's amazing to see all the wonderful stuff we've done while "simply living"

Jill Parmer: You could "do more" and see how it goes. Or bring in a new thing, or walk a new neighborhood route.

Jill Parmer: That's along the lines of ...try a little, watch.

Chris Sanders: What do you get from your homeschool co-op?

AlexPolykow: I have a couple of times listed what I did during the day on facebook, usually a day I feel like I did nothing , and I was surprised to see how much I did or others thought I did.

Darcel: I've been feeling depressed for a while and my thoughts are all over the place, if you couldn't tell ;)

Jill Parmer: Is the feeling of not doing enough bad chatter in your head, or a reality for your children?

Darcel: I'm on meds for it, but feel bad for 'putting chemicals in my body'

AlexPolykow: How are the meds working for you?

Darcel: I could do w/out the co-op, but my oldest loves and needs to constantly be on the go and around other children.

reneecabatic: I had moments of feeling like I wasn't doing enough...so I did more or wrote down all that we did and felt better...and now I see how there is an ebb and flow to the amount we "do" and what it looks like from the outside

ColleenP changed name to ColleenPrieto

Chris Sanders: Better mothering through modern medicine, is my motto when I take something for a headache that normally I could just sleep off, but my kids need my alert attention.

Darcel: I think the meds would work better if I could also get into talk therapy.

ColleenPrieto: there I expanded my name lest I be confused with other Colleens :)

Robin Bentley: :-)

Darcel: I have a blog and take tons of pictures. Maybe I need to stop comparing myself to other people, but others have so many great ideas!

AlexPolykow: Do not feel bad to tell you doctor is not working. They can change and adjust.

Sandra Dodd: Ideas are great only if they make your life better.

Robin Bentley: Great ideas for what, Darcel?

AlexPolykow: when others have good ideas I think: """Great that is a good idea! maybe I will try that."" I don't feel inadequate because I did not come up with it!

Darcel: well, I don't have a doctor because we don't have insurance. I ordered the meds online because that's what I was taking before we lost our insurance. I'm really overwhelmed right now.

Sandra Dodd: Alex, anti-depressants can't be adjusted to the point that cognitive therapy isn't needed in addition to them.

Sandra Dodd: But Darcel, do something therapeutic to go with the meds.

reneecabatic: I've been going to a 12 step group for children of dysfunctional families---it's VERY cheap therapy. I'm getting a lot out of it.....I have a good story...

Sandra Dodd: Renee's plan is good.

Sandra Dodd: My main therapy was adult children of alcoholics and La Leche League!

Darcel: crocheting has helped so much, and i want to start exercising

Chris Sanders: Don't most therapists have sliding fee scales?

AlexPolykow: OH OK Sandra. I have not been on meds but know several people that just do meds and nothing else. Good to know therapy helps and goes hand in hand.

reneecabatic: around here even with sliding scale--$170 per hour!!

Chris Sanders: Exercising can help a lot -- Zoe (13) was just telling me that exercising should be one of the first recommendations for someone who is feeling down

Darcel: We have no wiggle room in our budget right now.

Chris Sanders: Ouch! Renee!

AlexPolykow: Darcel Exercising is what helps me with depression.

Darcel: Renne, same here!

Jennie joined the chat

Rebecca Allen: There might be peer support groups in your area for depression. Those are usually free or maybe a small donation to cover the meeting space costs.

Rebecca Allen: Exercise does wonders for me. And meditation to start the day.

reneecabatic: Darcel- I started a hundred push-ups challenge--it takes 6 weeks but only 30 minutes a week and can be done at home in your living room. my kids do it with me- next 200 sit-ups !

reneecabatic: it's online

Jennie joined the chat

AlexPolykow: With everything that is going on with my brother on top of a bd cold I had not exercised in a couple weeks and I was starting to get impatient and not nice to my kids . I stopped that by taking deep breaths and calming myself and then yesterady I was able to start exercising again.

Darcel: I have dvd's, and can walk.

reneecabatic: Alex- I think of your brother everyday....I hope he is doing better.

AlexPolykow: Great!

AlexPolykow: Thanks Renee.

Robin Bentley: Darcel, do you have someone who could come play with the kids, while you exercise (even at home)? It sounds like it could be hard to do that with a 6, 4 and 1 year old.

Robin Bentley: Even 20 minutes - maybe a teen or another mom?

Darcel: Yea, we live with my parents(that's the other problem)and they would be happy to help.

Robin Bentley: Use them!

Robin Bentley: Are you feeling pressure from your parents, too?

AlexPolykow: yep use them!

Chris Sanders: Are they supportive of your unschooling?

Darcel: They are very supportive.

Robin Bentley: That's great!

Chris Sanders: Good. Your kids are so young, please don't feel in a hurry to compete with anyone else. I wish I'd understood unschooling when my oldest was 6.

Darcel: Feeling the need to get back to the basics and relax.

Chris Sanders: Do you have Sandra's book, "The Big Book of Unschooling?"

Serah: Renee is that 100 push up challenge free?

reneecabatic: yes- if there is one thing i could change it would be "getting it" earlier.

Sandra Dodd: Okay, back to the topic, then!

Chris Sanders: http://hundredpushups.com

Sandra Dodd: Getting it earlier.

Sandra Dodd: But not just claiming to get it, or pretending to get it. That's the problem.

reneecabatic: I do it for free but they offer an app for $1.99 and other services i don't use

Chris Sanders: right... I'm still getting it -- and only have a few more years left with my youngest almost 14!

Darcel: What about when you think you get it and then realize maybe not as much as you thought you did?

Sandra Dodd: There are kind of wild discussions going on on an unschooling page at facebook, and Sylvia Toyama posted something very civilized I want to quote for people who joined recently in this chat.

In my experience, learning how to create a home for my family where unschooling will thrive, where children will grow with passion and a sense of wonder, and where we will all continue to learn and grow is absolutely a skillset. I've met a few parents calling themselves unschoolers, who talked a good game and clearly felt they had the mindset of an unschooler. But when it came time to actually walk the walk by spending time truly with their child -- not just in the same room or house, but truly present in their child's life -- they were simply all talk, and it showed in their kids' unhappiness and inability to get along with others.
—Sylvia Toyama
reneecabatic: That is soo true....

AlexPolykow: I have those moments too Darcel.

Chris Sanders: well said

AlexPolykow: they are less frequent now

Sandra Dodd: Like layers of an onion, Darcel.

Sandra Dodd: You get it and then take a rest and get another layer of it. :-)

AlexPolykow: that is a great quote from Sylvia

Darcel: I love that quote. Also like thinking of getting it in layers.

Serah joined the chat

AlexPolykow: and as the kids get older they are different questions

reneecabatic: "getting it" is continual-- maybe don't think "I GOT it" just keep understanding more

Sandra Dodd: I wrote ""Read a little, try a little, wait a while, watch." and Pam Sorooshian added "repeat"

AlexPolykow: Oh and please don't keep reading on places that make you confused. I used to be on some lists where the ideas were just crazy. It would make anyone super confused.

Sandra Dodd: Someone on facebook is insisting she got it in one day, and doesn't need anything about deschooling, because she got it, period, all at once.

Robin Bentley: That particular unschooling facebook group is a bit, um, all over the place.

AlexPolykow: Well it is clear by all the other stuff she wrote that she did not but I disagree.

Rebecca Allen: Everyone has layers to unpeel. Far more than a day's worth of layers.

ColleenPrieto: I recently joined that FB group, and have been amazed!

Robin Bentley: I still have layers to uncover and my daughter's 16.

reneecabatic: maybe she understood the idea of unschooling but putting it into practice is a different matter--it's like me saying I get Karate. that doesn't make me a black belt.

Jill Parmer: I'm not a member of that page, and I don't want to be. It is mostly filled with a bunch of tea party moms soothing each other.

Robin Bentley: Yes, Jill. I was thinking of unsubbing.

AlexPolykow: Like Sandra wrote on page 8 . some people read a little and they just go doing without undertanding why or continuing to understand and learn more about it.

Chris Sanders: lol Jill, I thought you were talking politics for a second

ColleenPrieto: LOL I did too - I was thinking I had totally then joined the wrong FB group

Sandra Dodd: Good analogy, Renee: "it's like me saying I get Karate. that doesn't make me a black belt."

AlexPolykow: I am sure that exchanged must have helped many.

Darcel: Thinking of leaving that Facebook group as well.

Marta BP joined the chat

Sandra Dodd: I'm staying to kick ass. dumb ass.

Sandra Dodd: (Not really.)

Serah: But, how fdo you know if you are really getting it?

Sandra Dodd: I was kind of tired of it by yesterday morning.

Jill Parmer: I was talking about the moms having a tea party on this page /support

Sandra Dodd: Serah, that's a really good question.

Sandra Dodd: When you're with your kids, are they calm and happy? Does it feel safe and peaceful?

Sandra Dodd: (If you have a four or five year old boy, safe and peaceful might not be the best thing.

Serah: sometimes, yes, but not always

Jill Parmer: Are you kids happy, are you gaining confidence, can you explain without getting tongue tied to your partner?

Sandra Dodd: It's good, but not as likely, I mean.

AlexPolykow: OH Meredith wrote something funny today:"(I just wish so many "alternative" moms didn't think unschooling was cool - can we somehow get it to be un-cool? That would save a lot of time and energy.)"

Sandra Dodd: I think you're getting it when you feel like you're getting it, and your kids are happy and learning.

Serah: well, we watch a lot of movies.. sometimes 3 -4 a day

Robin Bentley: Snort, Alex! I think that's a problem because they don't realize that the "cool" thing takes understanding and work.

Serah: they do other things too, but I feel like it is a lot every day

Sandra Dodd: Serah, do they do things while they watch the movies? Art or blocks or something?

Jill Parmer: That is funny what Meredith wrote. I wish it weren't the latest "cool" thing.

Serah: not really.

Robin Bentley: You're doing it together, right? Can you see what they're learning?

Serah: yes, mostly together

Jill Parmer: How old are your kids , Serah?

Serah: my boys are 7 and 9

AlexPolykow: Just today there was a homeschool park day and a new family was going to meet our group ( I ended up not going kids wanted to do other things) but the dad had written he was mostly unschooling but he also did some workbooks, Kids are young like 7, 5 and 2.

Jill Parmer: Are they bored, or engaged?

Serah: they make lots of connections like different actors from different films

Sandra Dodd: "Veganunschoolife is a good way to freedom !!!" This is the sigline (in rainbow colors) of someone who has translated some of my stuff into another language. I discussed my discomfort, about that quote, with her.

Serah: engaged

Jill Parmer: Oh good, how did she take it?

Sandra Dodd: I wish people wouldn't tie unschooling to other philosophies or beliefs or practices that way.

reneecabatic: sometimes bodies are growing or recovering from a big energy expenditure and need lots of rest and relaxation--- or getting ready to spend lots of energy...

Darcel: My 6yr old is always saying she's bored, unless we're at the beach, or we go somewhere every day

Robin Bentley: So, Serah can you expand their world by finding more info about the actors? Find out what other films they might like that feature those people?

Sandra Dodd: "veganunschoolife" is the worst I've seen, though. And as to it leading to freedom, I don't see it at all.

reneecabatic: spend

Jill Parmer: Then, maybe Serah, you could watch with them, and/or do your stuff with them and see all that they are getting out of the movies?

Serah: but it seems to be the thing they both agree on and the one thing they run to when looking for something to do. Even if I suggest other things, it's not always agreed upon by both.

Sandra Dodd: She tried to explain to me that it WAS more freedom. And she said she understood that a lot of people were afraid of vegans and vegetarians.

AlexPolykow: I saw that sig line and was uncomfortable. A lot of parents that are parenting different than the mainstream are attracted to unschooling and it does not work out well some times.

ColleenPrieto: veganunschoollife as in vegans who are unschooling??

Sandra Dodd: English is not her first language, so I was surprised that there would be an English-language sigline.

Serah: yes, i do watch with them, but after a while I too want to do something else.

Darcel: what does being vegan have to do with unschooling?

Rebecca Allen: Serah, are they able to do things separately? What's stopping that/

Sandra Dodd: Well that was my question, Colleen, whether it was a website or a group or a new designation. And she said no, she just called them that.

Serah: yes, but mostly they are together

Jill Parmer: Maybe don't "suggest" other things, have other stuff out to do, or find cool things to visit in your town. AND let them know that the movies will be there when you get back.

Rebecca Allen: I, for one, do not fear vegans and vegetarians.

Robin Bentley: I feel like there's an undercurrent of "we're free from all societal norms and expectations and that includes school" with some of these folks. Unschooling is not that at all!

ColleenPrieto: my son is a vegetarian by his choice but I'd not call him a vegetarianunschooler :)

Sandra Dodd: Mostly what's together?

Robin Bentley: Snort!

Robin Bentley: The kids are together, right?

AlexPolykow: A lot of people that are reactive to social norms are attracted to unschooling. They are against school, against rules, against this and that. It is just too much focus on being against something.

Robin Bentley: I agree Alex.

Jill Parmer: Be careful of "yes, but..." It's a roadblock to creative ideas.

Serah: either they watch movies together, or play wii or DS or something, very little time separate by choice

AlexPolykow: The focus should be your children , family and learning in a peaceful, joyfull and connected way.

Robin Bentley: That's nice!

Rebecca Allen: Teenage rebellious angst in later years.

Chris Sanders: Serah, what are you thinking they should be doing instead?

Jill Parmer: What is your comment to, Rebecca?

Sandra Dodd: -=-I feel like there's an undercurrent of "we're free from all societal norms and expectations and that includes school"-=-

Sandra Dodd: Robin wrote that. And I was going to say maybe that's the "freedom" the person was talking about.

Sandra Dodd: FREEDOM

Rebecca Allen: Parents being against so many societal norms.

Serah: very little academia type stuff, almost none

AlexPolykow: MY 9 year old just sat next to me and is reading the big book of unschooling! HA!

Sandra Dodd: That is another problem in people getting unschooling.

Robin Bentley: Yes.

Sandra Dodd: If their first cut is "freedom" then they get confused about how to create an atmosphere of learning.

Sandra Dodd: And I like to keep unschooling clearly as an alternative to school.

reneecabatic: but knowing what I didn't want got me started on the path of looking for alternatives....

Sandra Dodd: Because I'm not interested in people's libertarian politics any more than I am about vegan diets.

ColleenPrieto: I saw a photo of a "famous" unschooling family who lives in my state - the kids are playing in the ocean, next to a sign that says to keep out of the water near the rocks due to rip currents (very dangerous) - every time I think of it, I think "unschooling doesn't mean you don't drown just as well as the schooled"

Jennie: So Serah you feel like they should be doing more traditional schoolish type things?

Robin Bentley: It's a very reactive state to be in. It makes it harder to see unschooling clearly and understand what it's really about.

Sandra Dodd: freedom is a separate issue, and no parent has any more freedom to bestow than the local government will allow.

AlexPolykow: BRB Going to get Fat Princess Playstation game purchased for my son !

Robin Bentley: Good point, Colleen. Jeez...

Rebecca Allen: Wow, Colleen. yikes!

Sandra Dodd: Colleen, is a photo worth putting out in public as a bad example?

Jill Parmer: -=-Parents being against so many societal norms.-=-
Yes... Parental rebellion.

Robin Bentley: I wish those folks would call what they do something else instead of unschooling.

Serah: not really Jennie

Chris Sanders: Maybe there needs to be a "This is NOT Unschooling" web page or something?

Sandra Dodd: I'm kind of tired of very bad examples and am willing to blow the whistle, especially when people are speaking at conferences. Sylvia's quote brought to mind a fairly famous unschooler with one child who needs to keep some food in the house.

Robin Bentley: Serah, are you feeling stuck with their choices?

ColleenPrieto: I don't know if the photographer (who is the dad of the family) would allow that - though he did put it on FB (I saw the photo because a friend of mine is a friend of his...) - it is a super example though of what Joyce F was talking about a while back when she started her new website (the name of her project is escaping me...)

reneecabatic: Sandra-- the bad examples caused me and Chris to stumble in our learning and getting unschooling--we actually paused and said--well if THAT is unschooling we aren't unschoolers

Serah: Actually, not. Right now they are role playing in the basement. Maybe I just need to be a little more open to their choices

Sandra Dodd: I don't think so, Colleen. Joyce wasn't looking for bad examples. She was looking for kids who are still loved even though they weren't being ideal children, not about parents being scofflaws.

Robin Bentley: Ah-ha! You're seeing what they love as not what you'd like it to be?

Sandra Dodd: Unless Joyce has another site with bad examples.

Serah: I have a question from a friend who is having a hard time with her 9 yo son

ColleenPrieto: ah - I could be mis-remembering - I think you're right though - I think some were concerned that the photos/stories she was looking for could be taken as bad examples (if the context wasn't well explained) - not that she was looking for the bad examples

reneecabatic: how do you "blow the whistle"?

Robin Bentley: There's a book, Sandra, called "Sh*t My Kids Ruined" which is pretty funny. The author talks about how those things didn't matter so much as it was usually her problem that anything happened.

ColleenPrieto: this photo I saw = super bad example -

Robin Bentley: Sandra calls them on their bad ideas, in public.

Chris Sanders: If the photo was in the newspaper, online, a link to it could be included with an explanation of why this is not a good example of unschooling.

Sandra Dodd: Serah, is your friend unschooling?

Darcel: Headed to a park playdate in a bit. Thanks for the chat!

Serah: yes

Jill Parmer: Sandra, what do you mean by the "keep some food in the house." of this **brought to mind a fairly famous unschooler with one child who needs to keep some food in the house.**

Sandra Dodd: Questions from people who aren't here are difficult, and if they're not unschoolers...

Rebecca Allen: Bye Darcel! Have fun!

reneecabatic: bye Darcel! have a fun park day!

Serah: i am on the phone with her, and she is trying to tell me what is going on

Jill Parmer: Doesn't everyone keep some food in the house?

Sandra Dodd: Jill, and example of a parent who talks a big line but is being kind of neglectful.

ColleenPrieto: it was on FB - Sandra if you'd like I can see if I can find a way to send it (or a link to it) to you if you'd like - can I say here who the family is?

Robin Bentley: Jill, I was wondering about that, too.

Sandra Dodd: Better not to, Colleen (to name names)

Sandra Dodd: But if you want to write to me on the side, that's fine.

ColleenPrieto: that's what I figured :)

Sandra Dodd: Jill, you think everyone keeps food in the house!?

ColleenPrieto: re the no-names

Rebecca Allen: Not everyone keeps food in the house, Jill.

ColleenPrieto: but I'll email you :)

Sandra Dodd: That would be cool. My mom didn't but she was not very with it.

Sandra Dodd: And she wasn't identifying herself in public as a great unschooler.

Renee Smock: Hi been lurking.. jumping in to say that I get really irritated when I hear moms say "we're such unschoolers" when their kids are breaking some sort of social rule or climbing on something at a restaurant

reneecabatic: Sandra--how would you go about blowing the whistle?

Sandra Dodd: Renee, someone said I would but that doesn't mean there's a whistle or a place to blow one. That wasn't me saying. :-)

Sandra Dodd: Renee, I agree. Someone (maybe from here) told a story of a family in a homeschooling group and they went on a field trip to a museum, and because they had become unschoolers, the mom let the kids cross the barrier ropes and get on display dinosaurs. Shrugged and said oh well, now we're unschoolers, or some such. I heard.

AlexPolykow: how can you not have food in the house. Even when we are broke there is some food in the house!

Jill Parmer: Feeling ignorant here, yes, I did think people kept food in the house. Wait, that can't be right, I've seen a house with almost no food in it. wow.

Robin Bentley: We have so much food, I keep having to find new places to store it.

Renee Smock: It would be nice though, if some of the bad information/examples out there about unschooling could be cleared out.

Sandra Dodd: Two of my kids told me separately of having been to that house when there was nothing for the kid to eat, and they had to go buy food (my kids, with their money, late at night).

Chris Sanders: I'm fantasizing - not saying it's necessarily a good idea but thinking of a side-by-side comparison -- This is unschooling: This is NOT unschooling

Robin Bentley: I agree, Renee. But how to do that.

Sandra Dodd: And kid #2 was unhappy later that kid #1 had not warned her.

AlexPolykow: A house with kids Jill?

Jennie: Chris, like Goofus and Gallant? that would be great!

Rebecca Allen: Your kid #2, Sandra? confused.

Jill Parmer: Yes, Alex. My dad's house when my sister and I went to visit him one summer. I remember eating at the neighbor's house a lot.

reneecabatic: well....i guess I'm asking cuz I've wanted to say something and haven't known how to go about saying it....to a Ma who claims to be an unschooler but where there are issues ....possibly neglect. Definitely lack of connection with the kid

Chris Sanders: Did Sandra get bumped?

Sandra Dodd: Other kid wasn't numbered. One of my kids knew something. Another of my kids, another year/time/place, same family, discovered the same problem

Serah: MY friend's son (the oldest of 3 children) seems to require 24/7 attention. It is a matter of seconds that he can go from being a great engaged kid, to one who bothers everyone else. She is very frustrated with this situation

Chris Sanders: There she is -- you disappeared from my sidebar list

AlexPolykow: I can see a bachelor not having food but when I was married to my first husband I always went shopping right before the kids came over to make sure there was enough food they liked and kids friendly items.

Robin Bentley: The truth is that people will do what they want to do and call it whatever they want. And get annoyed when someone tells them that's not what they're doing, actually. It's a free country!

Sandra Dodd: Serah, there's nothing we can do to advise second-hand that way, I don't think.

Rebecca Allen: Ah, okay Sandra.

Robin Bentley: Serah, some kids really do need more attention than others.

Sandra Dodd: Robin's right.

Jill Parmer: Renne Cabatic, whenever I've said something to people in general who claim unschooling but show by words and actions not-unschooling, they get very angry and say mean/rude things about me.

Sandra Dodd: Rather than making a list of what screw-ups are, it might be better to remind people occasionally that there are better examples and worse examples.

Sandra Dodd: And it's up to each person to find good examples to emulate

Sandra Dodd: And not to confuse giddy, showy "LOOK AT US, we are UNschoolers!" with a clear understanding and a peaceful life.

Note from Sandra in 2023: We did create a list of what can screw up unschooling: How to Screw Up Unschooling—several of the moms in here and some more.

And the unnamed family was Dayna Martin's; they ended up divorced and scattered.

reneecabatic: JillP- that's what I've been warned.....

AlexPolykow: Serah my sister's older kid is like that and the only solution is to be with him or engaging him almost 24/7.

Jill Parmer: It's ugly and gives me a stomach ache. So I don't mind unschooling without an unschooling group. :-)

Sandra Dodd: There was an incident this morning where someone told a bald-faced lie about me on a conference mailing list.

reneecabatic: i feel guilt for not helping the kid--guess that is my own issue to work through.

Jill Parmer: meaning local group. I love some online groups, and online friends, and some conferences.

Rebecca Allen: At least we have our moms' lunch, Jill.

Serah: really Alex, but how do you do that when there are the needs of 2 other children to juggle as well

Sandra Dodd: Renee, do you want to write to me on the side and tell me who? If I get the same name twice, I'll write to the person. :-)

Jill Parmer: Yes, Rebecca!

reneecabatic: yes--I'm sure it's the same :-/

Robin Bentley: Renee, do you have a blog that this mom reads? If so, maybe you could be subtle and post "getting warmer" "getting colder" comparisons.

AlexPolykow: Of the number of local unschoolers in my town one kid is going to school, the others are doing Well Trained Mind and the others are just relaxed homeschoolers,. Only one family unschools now.

reneecabatic: no Robin-I don't have a blog (XuMei doesn't like me writing about or posting photos of her)

Jill Parmer: Sandra, what did you do, or will you do about that lie? Sometimes, it seems I can't fight it, the negative things said about me. Nor do I want to spend my time doing that. I have so dang much fun with my family.

AlexPolykow: Serah she needs to do it best she can, I had my nephew here for 4 days plus his brother and my kids. It was doable.

Robin Bentley: Ah, how about FB? Do you post about unschooling there?

Robin Bentley: I guess it depends on whether this person is new to it or claims to have been doing it for a long time. Perhaps different levels of receptivity.

Robin Bentley: Serah, has this just started, the need for more focused attention?

reneecabatic: it's beyond subtle and yes--you hit the nail on the head-- receptivity

Serah: it seems to be something that they have been struggling with since he was little

Robin Bentley: Ah. Tricky.

Robin Bentley: Well, they've been struggling against it too long, then. When you give a child your full attention, the neediness can subside. If you've been resisting that need, it will come up again and again.

Chris Sanders: Serah, how old is the oldest?

Serah: 9

Robin Bentley: And the other kids?

Serah: with a 7

Serah: 7 yo sister and 5 year old bro

Robin Bentley: So, I wonder if it started when the oldest was 2? It sucks to have your parents focus on a new sibling.

Rebecca Allen: It's probably easy for me to say as the mom of an intense only child, but I have noticed that pattern with some friends, Serah. It seems to be about the oldest child, and more about the mom than the child.

Rebecca Allen: The other kids have needs too, but sometimes they get overlooked.

Serah: yes, it did start about then...

Sandra Dodd: Without the mom here for us to ask, it doesn't seem to be a good use of the chat, to discuss another family.

Sandra Dodd: It's not an unschooling issue, is it?

Sandra Dodd: Jill, I wrote "that's not true."

Robin Bentley: It would be a parenting issue that leaks into unschooling. But maybe the mom should come to a chat.

Rebecca Allen: On the topic of "what can people misunderstand or do badly"...not enough attention to keeping the parenting partner happy.

Serah: I agree Sandra, she is on the phone with me.

Robin Bentley: Rebecca, that's a good point. Partners can get left in the dust sometimes.

Serah: She is unschooling, her son has been in school before, but the problems got worse so he came home, all the secular advice is focused on medication and counselling, but she is adamant that this is not the way

Rebecca Allen: I really appreciate all that I've read on unschooling lists about keeping families intact.

Sandra Dodd: Good point, Rebecca.

Sandra Dodd: At first, the mom gets all excited with the kids, but it needs pretty quickly to move toward being a family project.

JessicaO joined the chat

Sandra Dodd: Serah, if a kid needs attention, he needs attention.

Sandra Dodd: Some kids need more. Some kids need lots.

AlexPolykow: very good point Rebecca. I am glad that unschooling has made my marriage better but I see still so many getting divorced

Sandra Dodd: Nothing we say can change that.

Robin Bentley: And Rebecca, it's one of those things you can't get much support with either, in the wider world. I watch women treat their partners so badly. I've learned a lot about how to engage and treat my husband from unschooling.

Sandra Dodd: if the mom suspects there's something she could be doing different, maybe she can ask people who know her and her family dynamics to give her particular advice.

reneecabatic: JillP, Sandra Dodd-- I am incredulous that people write bad, mean things about you 2!!! --I think it says more about the writer than you.

Marta BP: Me too, Robin (hi everyone!)

Rebecca Allen: Yes, Alex. i've seen some divorces lately, and they seem so selfish with kids getting hurt. I've also seen some families staying together through much greater trials than the divorcing folks.

Sandra Dodd: If the relationship between the mom and oldest child is strained, maybe a friend could talk directly to the older boy.

AlexPolykow: was it on unschooling basics that the mother had moved out and she was worried the kids played a alot of video games but never took in consideration that their world was turned upside down?

Sandra Dodd: I did that once, with a teenaged unschooler. The mom and teen weren't communicating well, and I got permission to mediate a bit. It helped.

Chris Sanders: Renee wrote way back -=-Sandra-- the bad examples caused me and Chris to stumble in our learning and getting unschooling--we actually paused and said--well if THAT is unschooling we aren't unschoolers -=- This is what hindered my understanding of unschooling too, long ago. Set me back a good 6 years!

Robin Bentley: Hey, Alex. That's happened to a family I'm close to. The dad (who was the gamer) moved out and computers are banned from the mom's house.

Sandra Dodd: But Renee, were they really bad examples, or did it seem crazy/radical to you?

Sandra Dodd: Because sometimes people might have seen our family and said "Crazy; we're not doing that."

Robin Bentley: The kids' relationship with their mother is much worse (at least the older ones). It's really awful what the mom's crusade has done to the family.

Sandra Dodd: Oh, Robin, that's AWFUL!

Chris Sanders: for me -- I think they were bad examples. For one, I attended a Rethinking Education conference that left me with a very bad taste. Taking Children Seriously was all the rage then.

Robin Bentley: But she has "goals" for her kids. And she's determined to see them through.

Robin Bentley: All the kids are in school of one kind or another.

AlexPolykow: When I met the first local homeschool group there was a mother who unschooled and her son was a couple years older than mine and it was a bad example of her doing nothing when her son would bully mine, glad I thought that was wrong and was always there with my son.'

Sandra Dodd: It reminds me (imperfectly; it's not a parallel) of my friend Michael, whose friends got divorced when he was younger. His mother hated his father and said so, and as he got older and moved through puberty and grew a heavy beard, he looked, and was, more and more like the father who had already been declared despised.

AlexPolykow: That is sad Robin!

Sandra Dodd: This seems like an electronic version of that kind of rejection.

Robin Bentley: Sandra, you don't know how awful. Now Senna's friend is banned from contacting us.

Robin Bentley: Because electronics are okay with us.

Rebecca Allen: Oh Robin. That is terrible.

Chris Sanders: Does the dad have some custody? Can she be in touch with you and Senna when she's with her dad?

Jill Parmer: I've put into action here, what I learned from really solid unschoolers, and it's paid off so nicely. My family enjoys each other, we crack up at our personal jokes, we know each others' struggles and help alleviate those. I love love love when any of us are doing things together, and chatting and having a good time...even hard work stuff.

Robin Bentley: The dad is hands-off. He's a bit scared I think, because the mom has threatened to cut off visitations. Don't know if she can do it, but she'd try.

Jill Parmer: Oh I'm really sorry to hear that , Robin. You seem to have been a good place for that friend.

Robin Bentley: Jill and Chris, I think you met her at Life is Good.

Chris Sanders: That is sad.

Robin Bentley: Yeah. The consequences for the child are worse if she contacts us. Chores, grounding, cell phone taken away when she walks in the door.

Chris Sanders: Jill, it's great that you discovered and recognized solid unschoolers early on.

Robin Bentley: So, onto other things.

reneecabatic: sorry- stepped away to make eggs

Rebecca Allen: Is that scenario rather common for teen unschoolers and their friends? Seems like JennyC's family had something similar.

Jill Parmer: Sandra's work has paid off nicely in my family. /happy

Robin Bentley: Unschooling requires a lot of thinking and soul searching on behalf of the parent.

reneecabatic: yes- the bad examples were like no food examples--bad not just misunderstood

Sandra Dodd: Thanks, Jill.

AlexPolykow: I think when unschoolers say their kids make their own decisions and that they can sleep when they want to and eat what they want too most people visualize this chaotic home where kids live on twinkies and soda and that they spend all night awake and do nothing but watch tv and play games and that they learn nothing >

Robin Bentley: Yes, Rebecca. Similar stuff to Jenny's. Except that Senna's friend can't leave and live with us, even if she'd want to.

Jill Parmer: I think I recognized the confidence, and was not afraid of the thoughtful arguments. I was giddy about them.

Robin Bentley: Jill, it's like "Wow, I've never thought about it like that! Hmmm."

Sandra Dodd: That's a nice way to put it, Jill, and a nice thing to say.

Sandra Dodd: I feel that way about being around Pam and Joyce.

AlexPolykow: We watch TV and play video games a lot, well my son loves video games and we have satellite and our home is not like that even when we drink soda and eat twinkies!

Sandra Dodd: They never hesitate or look scared. :-)

Sandra Dodd: They just solidly know for absodamnlutely what they're talking about.

Sandra Dodd: Some people are out there talking about unschooling as though they're doing a school report.

Robin Bentley: Yes. You and Pam and Joyce - good to be around.

Sandra Dodd: They've paraphrased some things they read and they're repeating them.

Sandra Dodd: It's a little like people thinking if they can perfectly imitate a musical performance, that they're as good as the person who originated it.

Sandra Dodd: If they can sound like Michael Jackson at karaoke, that Michael Jackson wasn't all that.

AlexPolykow: I so want to come to your conference Sandra.

Sandra Dodd: Alex, sell some bull sperm and come on down!

AlexPolykow: and be around you and deb and pam

Sandra Dodd: /all

Rebecca Allen: Me too, Alex and Sandra.

Jill Parmer: When I first went to conferences, I used to place myself around Sandra and Pam, just to hear more things, and watch interactions.

reneecabatic: YAYAY-- Chris and I ran numbers last night and I think he can come with us to Always Learning Live!!!

Marta BP: I wish I lived in the States, Alex ;) so I could go too

ColleenPrieto: Yes it would be amazing to hear/meet Sandra, Joyce, Pam, etc. all in person instead of just online!

AlexPolykow: I am going to try very hard!

Rebecca Allen: I think December will be hard, but I'm really hoping to make next summer work.

Sandra Dodd: Renee, Pam Sorooshian and I decided to call it ALL Unschooling because it's easier to say, and people won't be as afraid of it maybe :-)

Chris Sanders: I was surrounded locally by moms who called themselves unschoolers but in hindsight, they were really homeschooling for excellence -- trying to raise super-brainiacs

Robin Bentley: It's interesting to see the shift in people's views. Senna was talking about being up in the night to family. At one time, they would have looked askance at that, but they know she knows people all around the world online and that she writes and draws and connects. The comment was "hey, you'd do well on the nightshift."

Sandra Dodd: It's only four syllables, and it's descriptive.

AlexPolykow: I have been around Schuyler and that was the first real great unschooling family I was around. When MD was 5 and Gigi about 18 months old.

Jill Parmer: Renee C, and Chris S. If you need a place to stay the night, you are welcome in Fort Collins. We have floor space.

Sandra Dodd: The full name is no shorter, but the short name is shorter. :-)

Rebecca Allen: ALL as opposed to vegan, Sandra? Hehe.

Jill Parmer: on your way to ALL unschooling symposium.

JessicaO: was just reading back: is darcel gone? just wanted to suggest writing as a way of cheap therapy (tho therapy with others is also good)

Sandra Dodd: Kirby is working 11:00 p.m. to 8:00 a.m. these days

Chris Sanders: Thanks Jill -- we might be taking the Amtrak!

Sandra Dodd: 11:00 p.m. to 8:00 a.m. these days.

Chris Sanders: and we're bringing along a mom and daughter, local friends

Robin Bentley: Yep. And Senna knows how to adjust her schedule for what she wants or needs to do.

Jill Parmer: Oh yeah, the kids were talking about that on Skype.

JessicaO: i noticed that.. if i see her online another time, i'll suggest that. i've been writing on 750words.com, and find it helps a LOT

Robin Bentley: Oh, Amtrak, Chris. That might be a way for us to come, too. Still working on it.

reneecabatic: JillP--we found that flying directly to ABQ is cheaper than driving .....but oh! how I am tempted to drive and stay at folks houses and see the sites! but it would mean Chris can't come-- too much work off

AlexPolykow: I do not know if flying or driving. Probably flying down would be my best bet and cheaper .

Sandra Dodd: Chris, double check that amtrak think. I think they put you on a bus to get across kansas or something like that.

Chris Sanders: right, you've probably "met" Megan

Chris Sanders: Thanks Sandra, I'll check.

JessicaO: ok brb need to read the other page t get caught up

Robin Bentley: Oh, I gotta go. I'm going to sit with a friend getting chemo. Thanks for the great chat, as always.

Sandra Dodd: Rebecca, is that like vegan? It IS all unschooling.

Robin Bentley left the chat

reneecabatic: bye Robin!

Rebecca Allen: Yes, Sandra! Bad joke attempt on my part.

Sandra Dodd: Rebecca, I just saw this: " I think December will be hard, but I'm really hoping to make next summer work." Keith thinks summer is a Very Bad Time

AlexPolykow: Amtrak does not go from MN to Albuquerque I have checked .

Sandra Dodd: and that if this year's works and we want to bring the Waynforths out, that we should do it in December 2012

Rebecca Allen: What's bad about summer? Isn't that when Schuyler is coming in 2012?

Rebecca Allen: Ah, okay.

Chris Sanders: Southwest Chief from KC to Albuquerque

Jill Parmer: Oh yeah, Renee C. a flight is so much easier/cheaper. I forget how long of a drive it is, even though I've done it.

Rebecca Allen: Well I will try extra hard to make December work then!

AlexPolykow: that would probably be better for me Sandra. I want really bad to see them and I want to go to Washington DC next year dor the Video games expo at the Smithsonian plus do the Fallout 3 game tour with my son.

Rebecca Allen: That sounds like tons of fun, Alex!

reneecabatic: also if we drive we'd be driving right through towns where we have family living so we'd feel compelled to stop and it's christmas time and ugh...just ugh on the driving thing

Sandra Dodd joined the chat

Marta BP: for someone flying from Europe, what's the closest airport/city?

Sandra Dodd: I got behind and the chatroom wouldn't let me look at save/print.

Sandra Dodd: Albuquerque is the closest airport, Marta.

Sandra Dodd: Dallas is the closest international port.

reneecabatic: oh- and snowy mountain passes with our very old vehicles....not looking great...basically I'm talking myself out of driving because I'd really enjoy driving :-)

Marta BP: oh ok

Sandra Dodd: Or Los Angeles, might be cheaper for a connecting flight (potentially) for an international flight to Albuquerque.

AlexPolykow: Yes it is very very far for me too. I will probably be better off flying. Brian woould not be able to come.

Sandra Dodd: So DFW or LAX, and ABQ (if you're looking at airport codes)l

Marta BP: ok

Marta BP: checking it out now

reneecabatic: Sandra-- do you want me to e-mail you through Facebook or e-mail---I don't have your address

AlexPolykow: the hotel prices are not bad at all. how is eating out over there Sandra?

Chris Sanders: Alex, if you drove to DSM, you could ride with us to the Amtrak station in KC (3 hoursish)

Sandra Dodd: [email protected]

Sandra Dodd: Eating out is easy, Alex.

reneecabatic: oh! easy! thanks :-)

Sandra Dodd: There's a New Mexican restaurant attached to the hotel. The food is very spicy.

Sandra Dodd: In the parking lot is The Owl Cafe, a 50's-style burger joint.

Chris Sanders: and I hear there's a Target behind the hotel? SuperTarget by chance?

Sandra Dodd: Down the parking lot a bit is a Panda Express (crap food, but quantity of rice)

AlexPolykow: DSM???

Jill Parmer: About screwing up unschooling, I wish bad examples were not written about so much. In our local homeschooling group, a mom wrote that she was really sick for a week, so she let her son unschool, and he went ape-shit with all the freedom (highly labeled, and controlled), so it just wouldn't work for them.

Chris Sanders: Des Moines

Sandra Dodd: Across the road is a Sonic (cheaper and more variety).

Sandra Dodd: Super Target behind, yeah.

Sandra Dodd: OMG, Jill, I HATE that, when people say "We unschool on the weekends:"

Sandra Dodd: Or |After my kids do their lessons, I just let them unschool"

AlexPolykow: Mexican is not something my kids like ( I love it)> But if I can have plenty of snacks and some easy food than it works.

Jill Parmer: Which that part is fine, that it won't work for them. I don't like that people think unschooling is not being with your child, playing with doing things with them.

AlexPolykow: Sonic will work for them I think.

Chris Sanders: I've heard people who's kids are in school say they unschool in the evenings and on weekends!

AlexPolykow: Sounds perfect with the target right there>

Chris Sanders: Alex - did you see that DSM = Des Moines?

AlexPolykow: Chris where is DSM

ColleenPrieto: there's a family local to us that "unschools everything except the important subjects" (which they define as math and reading) - argh!

AlexPolykow: Des Moines??

AlexPolykow: OH OK"

Chris Sanders: central Iowa -- OMG!

reneecabatic: I feel offended when they say that....like they are implying I do nothing at all

AlexPolykow: I will check into that !

Chris Sanders: right Renee

reneecabatic: I met a family who told me they unschool and then went on to say they do Thomas Jefferson and don't allow video games....um...what?

Chris Sanders: I think it'd be about a 2-1/2 hour drive for you, Alex, maybe?

Jill Parmer: Yes. Renee. And then if you point that out they are completely baffled that they implied that. %-/

AlexPolykow: It is like 3 -3 1/2 Chris.

Sandra Dodd: Do you want to see the magnets Holly's working on?

Chris Sanders: ugh, you must live further off of I-35 than I was hoping.

Chris Sanders: Yes!

Jill Parmer: Yes, please, Sandra.

AlexPolykow: thanks for the offer. I will check into it!. If I can break the trip up get to your house and spend the night then it may be OK

Sandra Dodd: "except important" is SUCH a serious problem, and it's hard to explain to people who think they know what's important and all.

reneecabatic: I don't have the guts to point it out yet---I am too afraid of the conflict cuz they usually respond with "OMG you are ATTACKING me!!"

Sandra Dodd: She's sending me the link now.

Jill Parmer: Thank you, Holly.

Sandra Dodd: She has four out of five

rather than Holly's link from that day, the magnets are the first five (or the only five) here: /magnets

Jill Parmer: If you go SW first Alex, I'm in Fort Collins, CO.

Sandra Dodd: Don't point it out, Renee.

Sandra Dodd: Let them fail.

reneecabatic: that idea that there is core knowledge that is more important than other knowledge still messes with my head sometimes...I feel less important because the things I am interested in aren't as "valuable" as other things

Sandra Dodd: It's enough that we help everyone who wants help without feeling bad about people who didn't want help

Sandra Dodd: They will miss all the connections to be made when "the unit of study" is everything in the whole wide world.

reneecabatic: Sandra-- you point it out so well though.....I am envious of your cut to the chase ability

Chris Sanders: Cool images/artwork Holly!

Marta BP: yes ladies, what you do is SOOOO important ;)

AlexPolykow: Thanks Jill. That is really nice of you too,

reneecabatic: Can we buy these , Holly?

JessicaO: ok i'm as caught up as i can get! chris, when did you go to rethinking ed?

JessicaO: i went 3 different years... 98 (the kids were small and we were smack in the middle of a chicken pox outbreak)..

reneecabatic: I love the rainbow houses image

Chris Sanders: um... maybe 2003?? Can't remember

ColleenPrieto: I love the magnets - awesome!

JessicaO: and i think 2007 and 2008 or 2006 and 2007

Holly: Yes, you can buy them when we have them! We'll mail 'em to you, Renee.

JessicaO: ah ok... i didn't like it because the middle time we went, there was a bit of a fight over whether or not drugs were okay...

Jill Parmer: Really? 2006 was the Live and Learn in ABQ and that was really nice.

JessicaO: gary was mixed up with that

Rebecca Allen: Cool, Holly! I will purchase some.

Rebecca Allen: Thanks for the chat everyone. Off to hook up our new Wii!

Rebecca Allen left the chat

Jill Parmer: Alex, I really want to meet, Gigi. If I were her age, I'd be her best friend. She does such fun stuff.

Chris Sanders: We attended L&L in St. Louis, then Albq.

JessicaO: I hope to go to live & learn some day!

Chris Sanders: Then they were out east for a couple of years and we didn't go.

Jill Parmer: Live & Learn is no more, Jessica.

AlexPolykow joined the chat

JessicaO: Holly: HI!!

Chris Sanders: Zoe and I are going to make Strawberry Poppyseed Chicken Salads like Panera's have, so bye!

ColleenPrieto: "it only takes a second to do better" - love it! Is Rethinking Education different from the Rethinking Everything conference? We've never been to an unschooling conference before...

JessicaO: Jill, ok, I guess they metamorphasize (however that's spelled)

Holly: Hello, (Jessica! Hope you're well)

Chris Sanders: Rethinking Everything is the new name

Chris Sanders: they've broadened their focus

Chris Sanders: I guess

AlexPolykow: Jill she has been spending most of the days helping dad working on the farm. She wanted to stay with dad fixing fences instead of going to the park to see her best friend ( which I think she has been a little disappointed with).

reneecabatic: Awesome Holly! Or I can get them in December when I visit (squeeeeeee!)

JessicaO: colleen, i don't remember for sure why they changed the name...it's everything now

Sandra Dodd: That sounds like a cool lunch, Chris.

ColleenPrieto: got it - who puts that one on? not the martins, right?

AlexPolykow: I made it to Live and Learn in 2007 . My son talked for years about itl He loved it!

Sandra Dodd: Renee, we need to see if the magnets work, and decide what to sell them for, and take a nap. :-)

Chris Sanders: Jessica -- Live & Learn is no longer, but there are lots of smaller, regional spin-offs. I prefer to just go to Sandra's gatherings anymore.

Sandra Dodd: And those things won't happen in that order. :-)

JessicaO: if i go again, it'd be for the boys and for the drum circles... i think the martins are going to be there this year tho

Chris Sanders: Okay, really signing off now -- hungry

Sandra Dodd: Colleen, the Northeast Unschooling Conference might be fun.

Sandra Dodd: Or there's one in Toronto every year, but I think it's passed. Has it?

JessicaO: the boys really liked going... my oldest really enjoyed the contest where they had to do and eat weird things... based on a tv show whose name escapes me

AlexPolykow: A small get together with people like the ones at Sandra's All is more what I like and would enjoy. My kids too.

JessicaO: huggs chris!!

ColleenPrieto: northeast unschooling - I will check that out online and see where/when it is :)

Sandra Dodd: Oh! http://www.livingjoyfully.ca/conference/

Chris Sanders left the chat

Sandra Dodd: Fear Factor, Jessica?

JessicaO: alex, my kids LOVED visiting with sandra & co in december.. that was a small group

ColleenPrieto: I too like small gatherings which is why I haven't been inspired to try a conference yet - but might be fun

AlexPolykow: Loved the magnets Holly!

reneecabatic: lol! enjoy the nap :-) Gonna go let XuMei have this computer for gaming! have a great day. and thanks for the chat!

JessicaO: yep Fear Factor!

JessicaO: micah won or tied with another kid in that fear factor competition

Sandra Dodd: Holly's working on #5 magnet, Alex, but I told her.

JessicaO: take care, renee!

AlexPolykow: Exactly jessica. I think smaller is better for us plus I want to be with people like Jill, Sandra, pam, deb Lewis ......

JessicaO: yeah!!

Holly: Renee, tell XuMei I say Hi and I miss her!

AlexPolykow: I am going to need some for my fridge if they work out. Let me know!!

Sandra Dodd: http://www.northeastunschoolingconference.com/ ... august 25, might be too late to sign up

Sandra Dodd: but might not!

JessicaO: i think we would be happy with a combo of the 2: something big ish for the boys with something like fear factor and something small for me so i don't get overwhelmed or frustrated bcuz I can't hear a speaker

ColleenPrieto: thanks for the link!

JessicaO: the last time I went to rethinking ed (it was still ed that year) was when Ren Allen was there!

Sandra Dodd: Okay, thanks for being here and I'm going now. Next week, the next page. :-)

Sandra Dodd: "Why Rush to Get It?"

Sandra Dodd: Kids get older.

AlexPolykow: You guys know I love this chat but I got so much to do. thanks Sandra for the chat.\

Sandra Dodd: Next week. :-)

Jill Parmer: For the Northeast unschooling conference, you need to contact the organizer asap, to get the good hotel rate. She just posted that on fb.

ColleenPrieto: thanks all - i'm signing off to go play :)

Sandra Dodd left the chat

JessicaO: i hope my book turns up... it's buried in the mess in here... we need bookcases!

ColleenPrieto: Jill - is there a FB page for the conference?

JessicaO: have fun, colleen!

Jill Parmer: Not sure. use the website above.

ColleenPrieto: will do - thanks :)

Jill Parmer: bye all.

JessicaO: bye

The Big Book of Unschooling Directory of the Big Book Chats Chat Transcripts on other topics