Julie Bogart

Not that anyone is keeping track, but I've used this list as a place to keep track of the
ongoing unschooling process our family has been in. So for those who are interested, read
on. Otherwise, I'll just post, copy and save to my personal folder. :)

I am cleaning out old school-ish stuff this weekend. I'm tossing workbooks, math books,
handwriting books - you name it. I found an old school schedule book where I have every
subject planned for a week with little stickers to show the kids had done their work. At the
end of each week, I wrote a personal note to the child praising his/her success and then
mentioning what we'd work on the next week (very affirming stuff).

It touched me that I was trying so hard to be positive, upbeat and conscientious.

One of the funny things to notice was that that method only lasted about ten weeks. I lost
steam :) and I know why. My oldest just didn't like the whole planned sticker gig. <g>

I've had a sort of epiphany. We often talk about deschooling for our kids taking as many
years as they were "schooled" (whether at home or in an actual school). But I wonder if
we've ever looked at how long it takes to shed our *own* school experiences - the
indoctrination of years of people telling us how to learn, that we need to do what we don't
like to do to get ahead, that experts know more than we do, etc.

I sat at a table with university professors two weeks ago. (My husband teaches at two
different universities in town and this was a banquet.)

The table of profs found out that we homeschool and began asking questions. One said,
"Yes, it all sounds good. But how do you get them to do what they don't want to do? After
all, everyone has to learn subjects they don't like to get ahead. How do you make them
learn math, for instance, if they don't like it?"

My husband looked at me sideways and grinned his "How will you get out of this one?"
smile.

"We don't," I said.

The table stopped talking.

"We don't believe in making a child learn - because it's not possible to learn the subject
under those conditions. Learning itself is contagious and all subjects have intrinsic value
and intrigue. But if a child hasn't discovered that about a particular subject, force just
teaches other lessons that I don't want them to learn - such as, I can store information in
my short term memory for a test and then forget it, or math is awful, or important
subjects are hard and boring, or other people know better than me what is important for
me to know/learn."

Then I shared about a success with my daughter in math, for instance.

By the end of the conversation, they had shifted positions and were discussiing how true it
is that you can't make anyone learn or love learning.

I'm so tired of everyone focusing always on "learning to do what we don't want to do" as
the highest virtue in life.

Today, my son (17) is so light (after deciding to come home full time again). He suddenly
is in charge of his life. He said, "I want to watch that one movie list I have in order and
then read the screenplays. I 'll watch one every day."

I'm smiling.

Julie B

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/6/2004 3:38:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
julie@... writes:

I've had a sort of epiphany. We often talk about deschooling for our kids
taking as many
years as they were "schooled" (whether at home or in an actual school). But
I wonder if
we've ever looked at how long it takes to shed our *own* school experiences
- the
indoctrination of years of people telling us how to learn, that we need to
do what we don't
like to do to get ahead, that experts know more than we do, etc.<<<<


I think it's the same amount of time---it's just longer because we've spent
more time IN teh system, with high school and college and grad school,
and.....

Great post, Julie!

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/6/04 1:39:02 PM, julie@... writes:

<< By the end of the conversation, they had shifted positions and were
discussiing how true it

is that you can't make anyone learn or love learning. >>

Very cool success story!

I think kids unlearn their school-lessons more quickly and easily than adults
do. Adults have to really want to unlearn, it seems, whereas younger kids
can recover with less analysis and re-programming.

Sandra

pam sorooshian

On Sep 6, 2004, at 12:04 PM, Julie Bogart wrote:

> We often talk about deschooling for our kids taking as many
> years as they were "schooled" (whether at home or in an actual
> school). But I wonder if
> we've ever looked at how long it takes to shed our *own* school
> experiences - the
> indoctrination of years of people telling us how to learn, that we
> need to do what we don't
> like to do to get ahead, that experts know more than we do, etc.

It can be longer than it takes kids to grow up. That's why some of us
are sometimes a bit rough on people here. If somebody wants to "get
unschooling" - it would be nice if they could do it slowly and over a
long period of time. But time is passing for the kids' too and every
month and year is just that much more time THEY will have to deschool,
if they ever even get the chance.

-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

DJ

> On Sep 6, 2004, at 12:04 PM, Julie Bogart wrote:
>
> > We often talk about deschooling for our kids taking as many
> > years as they were "schooled" (whether at home or in an actual
> > school). But I wonder if
> > we've ever looked at how long it takes to shed our *own* school
> > experiences - the
> > indoctrination of years of people telling us how to learn, that
we
> > need to do what we don't
> > like to do to get ahead, that experts know more than we do, etc.
>

sitting in circle, facing group of unschoolers in same predictament

"hello. my name is so-n-no and I'm a schoolaholic"

**********************

anyway, that's what it reminded me of -- we are addicted to concepts
often without realizing it for decades.

I often wondered to myself whether or not relaxed homeschoolers or
unschoolers were more influenced by their own school years than they
might be aware of. We are all products of our environment to one
degree or another. The 60s in some of our backgrounds may play into
how we are raising our kids. But then again, I don't know how many
other 51 year old moms here have 10 year old children, and kids in
their teens.

I think it is cool that someone else also had the same thought of our
own schooling playing into how we are approaching our learning
experiences that we engage in with our kids. I thought maybe I was
just weird (which may be another topic altogether)and was the only
one to wonder about that. It's good to know that someone else
considered that possibility also.