my husband's take on unschooling
[email protected]
The following is a partial response to a mom who is interested in coming to
the conference. Her husband is reluctant----in more ways than one. Ben wrote
to encourage her to bring the whole family. I thought some of you might be
interested in reading a dad's viewpoint. I've deleted her questions and some
specifics, but I think you'll get the gist.
I'm lucky.
~Kelly
*************************
At least 10 dads (not to mention countless moms and kids) have had
life-changing experiences at the past two conferences. I can't pinpoint a specific
event which made those things happen, so I must attribute it to the entire
conference. The presenters ... the funshops ... the dads' get-together ...
children experiencing some of their own ... the talent show ... everything that
the conference offers (and leaves out) is important. Complete submersion into
the entire conference will help more than just picking and choosing certain
things to see and hear. You can't submerge or pick and choose if one of you
is not there.
I'm assuming that you mean my talk with the fathers when you say 'your
talk"; I actually am presenting in the main tent on "Rules vs Principles", also.
For the sake of this e-mail, I'll go with my assumption. My get-together
with the fathers will give him some insight into unschooling and ways that
others experience it in and outside of their homes. Unschooling is not the
product of an equation; there is no one definition or way to do it. It is the math
equivalent of infinity because it is continuous and evolving and maleable
and has no defined stopping point. It must be lived and experienced correctly,
and it extends the journey of learning. As far as 'graduation' and college
are concerned, there should be people there with whom he can speak about
those subjects (in fact, one of the speakers, Valerie Fitzenrieter, will be
talking about her daughter, Laurie, who just began working on her
doctorate---unschooled until college). As far as successful goes, you're treading on thin
ice with me. My DW never graduated from college, and she's been successful
from society's and unschooling's standpoint. Maybe you both need to define the
meaning of being "successful". Bill Gates would take exception to needing a
college degree to be "successful".
Your can't support or understand what he hasn't experienced or read about.
Having him there at the very least means exposure; besides, he's agreed to
come already. But if you think he'll make it miserable for your son, you need
to ask whether or not you will continue to unschool if your husband is not
supportive. My get-together with the fathers is crucial to his being in a
'safe' environment to discuss issues specific to the dads. Everything else at
the conference is just as important because he'll see how fathers are
interacting with their children every minute of every hour of every day of the
conference. Not knocking you moms, but that is a thing of beauty for me.
This is more of a separate subject than the conference itself, but two
things here: 1) what 'you' want vs what he wants and 2) teaching vs learning.
What he wants is what your focus is in unschooling. One of the basic themes
throughout your note is how much you want this to work, and that's good ... you
have to have the passion to do it. But in the end, it's got to be what he
wants. I don't deny that being home in an unschooling environment would be the
best thing for him, but he's gotta be the one to make that choice. His
choice will be to stay home if he realizes that you will help him learn
absolutely anything that he's interested in. If that means watching TV, playing video
games, playing cards, or coloring in a coloring book all day for the next
two months, let him do it. He'll be 'deschooling', gaining confidence in
himself (and you), become more responsible for his own learning, and experience
the value of self-led learning. Your responsibility is not to teach, but to
find ways to turn your "no's" into "yes's". In his time, his responsibility
will be to make choices based upon his passions and interests and not upon what
some faceless administration, government official, or other self-appointed
expert thinks he should be doing. He will empower himself.
************************
There's more----but I just thought I'd share a bit.
~K
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the conference. Her husband is reluctant----in more ways than one. Ben wrote
to encourage her to bring the whole family. I thought some of you might be
interested in reading a dad's viewpoint. I've deleted her questions and some
specifics, but I think you'll get the gist.
I'm lucky.
~Kelly
*************************
At least 10 dads (not to mention countless moms and kids) have had
life-changing experiences at the past two conferences. I can't pinpoint a specific
event which made those things happen, so I must attribute it to the entire
conference. The presenters ... the funshops ... the dads' get-together ...
children experiencing some of their own ... the talent show ... everything that
the conference offers (and leaves out) is important. Complete submersion into
the entire conference will help more than just picking and choosing certain
things to see and hear. You can't submerge or pick and choose if one of you
is not there.
I'm assuming that you mean my talk with the fathers when you say 'your
talk"; I actually am presenting in the main tent on "Rules vs Principles", also.
For the sake of this e-mail, I'll go with my assumption. My get-together
with the fathers will give him some insight into unschooling and ways that
others experience it in and outside of their homes. Unschooling is not the
product of an equation; there is no one definition or way to do it. It is the math
equivalent of infinity because it is continuous and evolving and maleable
and has no defined stopping point. It must be lived and experienced correctly,
and it extends the journey of learning. As far as 'graduation' and college
are concerned, there should be people there with whom he can speak about
those subjects (in fact, one of the speakers, Valerie Fitzenrieter, will be
talking about her daughter, Laurie, who just began working on her
doctorate---unschooled until college). As far as successful goes, you're treading on thin
ice with me. My DW never graduated from college, and she's been successful
from society's and unschooling's standpoint. Maybe you both need to define the
meaning of being "successful". Bill Gates would take exception to needing a
college degree to be "successful".
Your can't support or understand what he hasn't experienced or read about.
Having him there at the very least means exposure; besides, he's agreed to
come already. But if you think he'll make it miserable for your son, you need
to ask whether or not you will continue to unschool if your husband is not
supportive. My get-together with the fathers is crucial to his being in a
'safe' environment to discuss issues specific to the dads. Everything else at
the conference is just as important because he'll see how fathers are
interacting with their children every minute of every hour of every day of the
conference. Not knocking you moms, but that is a thing of beauty for me.
This is more of a separate subject than the conference itself, but two
things here: 1) what 'you' want vs what he wants and 2) teaching vs learning.
What he wants is what your focus is in unschooling. One of the basic themes
throughout your note is how much you want this to work, and that's good ... you
have to have the passion to do it. But in the end, it's got to be what he
wants. I don't deny that being home in an unschooling environment would be the
best thing for him, but he's gotta be the one to make that choice. His
choice will be to stay home if he realizes that you will help him learn
absolutely anything that he's interested in. If that means watching TV, playing video
games, playing cards, or coloring in a coloring book all day for the next
two months, let him do it. He'll be 'deschooling', gaining confidence in
himself (and you), become more responsible for his own learning, and experience
the value of self-led learning. Your responsibility is not to teach, but to
find ways to turn your "no's" into "yes's". In his time, his responsibility
will be to make choices based upon his passions and interests and not upon what
some faceless administration, government official, or other self-appointed
expert thinks he should be doing. He will empower himself.
************************
There's more----but I just thought I'd share a bit.
~K
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Hill
** Your can't support or understand what he hasn't experienced or read
about.
Having him there at the very least means exposure; besides, he's agreed to
come already.**
I'm not above "bargaining" with my husband. Such as "if you come with
me to the conference I'll be really delighted and I'll do something nice
for you like: visit your family cheerfully or clean the garage or make
shepherd's pie every week for 6 weeks."
I would do it. (Note: my husband has to go back to work before the
conference and it's hard to squish a cross country trip into his
unlengthenable weekends.) (So I'm not just blowing hypocritical smoke,
here. Um...really.)
If the rest of you have some better tips in spousal persuasion, let's
hear 'em.
Betsy
PS Although we aren't making it to MA, my husband is coming to the
Sacramento HS conference with me, finally.
about.
Having him there at the very least means exposure; besides, he's agreed to
come already.**
I'm not above "bargaining" with my husband. Such as "if you come with
me to the conference I'll be really delighted and I'll do something nice
for you like: visit your family cheerfully or clean the garage or make
shepherd's pie every week for 6 weeks."
I would do it. (Note: my husband has to go back to work before the
conference and it's hard to squish a cross country trip into his
unlengthenable weekends.) (So I'm not just blowing hypocritical smoke,
here. Um...really.)
If the rest of you have some better tips in spousal persuasion, let's
hear 'em.
Betsy
PS Although we aren't making it to MA, my husband is coming to the
Sacramento HS conference with me, finally.
Crystal
Betsy, I totally understand where you are coming from, although I
don't have any answers for you. I just posted a reply to this on
the unschooling basics list saying just about the same thing you
did, that my dh has to work and doesn't want to come. I'm going to
cut and paste it here, since Kelly posted it here too.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<snip>
Thank you, Kelly, for sharing this. I, even more now, want my
husband to attend the conference. Right now he still doesn't want
to go. I think if I pushed he would, though. I have told him it
would mean a lot to me if he would be there with me, but he is
working on Friday and he might work Saturday morning, then he wants
time to relax before Monday and it all starts over again. So, I see
his reason for not wanting to go, but I also know this is a once in
a lifetime opportunity for me to help him understand where I am in
my thinking. (Next year is a whole nother year away!, plus he hates
Florida.)
He mostly understands the academic parts of unschooling. The things
I think he needs to understand is why I don't make the kids do a lot
of housework, like, when Erica is drawing and her drawing stuff is
all out around her along with a dirty dish or two and a drink, and
her laundry needs to be done, etc. In his culture, girls my
daughter's age would be running the household--cooking and cleaning,
not drawing. What makes it worse is our neighbor is like he is, the
women and girls spend their day taking care of the kids and the
house while the men work and fix cars. I'm hoping he might listen
to someone who is not me (ie, another man).
One thing I have going for me is that he is not my kids' father. I
do not have to wait to unschool until he "gets it". I wish we were
both on the same page, though.
Crystal, crossing her fingers that dh comes to the conference.</snip>
don't have any answers for you. I just posted a reply to this on
the unschooling basics list saying just about the same thing you
did, that my dh has to work and doesn't want to come. I'm going to
cut and paste it here, since Kelly posted it here too.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<snip>
Thank you, Kelly, for sharing this. I, even more now, want my
husband to attend the conference. Right now he still doesn't want
to go. I think if I pushed he would, though. I have told him it
would mean a lot to me if he would be there with me, but he is
working on Friday and he might work Saturday morning, then he wants
time to relax before Monday and it all starts over again. So, I see
his reason for not wanting to go, but I also know this is a once in
a lifetime opportunity for me to help him understand where I am in
my thinking. (Next year is a whole nother year away!, plus he hates
Florida.)
He mostly understands the academic parts of unschooling. The things
I think he needs to understand is why I don't make the kids do a lot
of housework, like, when Erica is drawing and her drawing stuff is
all out around her along with a dirty dish or two and a drink, and
her laundry needs to be done, etc. In his culture, girls my
daughter's age would be running the household--cooking and cleaning,
not drawing. What makes it worse is our neighbor is like he is, the
women and girls spend their day taking care of the kids and the
house while the men work and fix cars. I'm hoping he might listen
to someone who is not me (ie, another man).
One thing I have going for me is that he is not my kids' father. I
do not have to wait to unschool until he "gets it". I wish we were
both on the same page, though.
Crystal, crossing her fingers that dh comes to the conference.</snip>
Marjorie Kirk
Last year I had to talk the whole family into going to the conference, but
they have been looking forward to this one since then! After we made plans
to come, my DH found out that he was overbooked; he's supposed to be picking
up a colleague at the airport on Sunday in Columbus, Ohio and driving to
Michigan to lead a seminar. He was bummed and didn't want to miss the any
of the conference (I, particularly didn't want him to miss the dads' get
together). My son also started playing football for the first time this
year and has a game on Sunday. (It's also football picture day!) So, we
arranged for the two of them to fly home Saturday night to be at their
various events on Sunday and the rest of us will drive home after the whale
watch. DH "gets" unschooling, but sometimes gets stuck in old patterns of
behavior (don't we all?). It is really great to be able to hang out with
all these people who respect and trust their kids and love being with them.
It's such a great atmosphere of camaraderie. Anyone who is sitting on the
fence, or has a spouse up there---COME!!! It's so worth it!
Also, after last year's chainmaille funshop my DH decided to make a shirt
with DS's help. It turned out to be a very long tunic, with no sleeves.
It's very cool and they want to bring it to show Julian.
Marjorie, who now has 2 extra whale watch tickets available. Any takers?
they have been looking forward to this one since then! After we made plans
to come, my DH found out that he was overbooked; he's supposed to be picking
up a colleague at the airport on Sunday in Columbus, Ohio and driving to
Michigan to lead a seminar. He was bummed and didn't want to miss the any
of the conference (I, particularly didn't want him to miss the dads' get
together). My son also started playing football for the first time this
year and has a game on Sunday. (It's also football picture day!) So, we
arranged for the two of them to fly home Saturday night to be at their
various events on Sunday and the rest of us will drive home after the whale
watch. DH "gets" unschooling, but sometimes gets stuck in old patterns of
behavior (don't we all?). It is really great to be able to hang out with
all these people who respect and trust their kids and love being with them.
It's such a great atmosphere of camaraderie. Anyone who is sitting on the
fence, or has a spouse up there---COME!!! It's so worth it!
Also, after last year's chainmaille funshop my DH decided to make a shirt
with DS's help. It turned out to be a very long tunic, with no sleeves.
It's very cool and they want to bring it to show Julian.
Marjorie, who now has 2 extra whale watch tickets available. Any takers?