Robyn Coburn

Something happened while I was at a playgroup with Jayn yesterday that has
gotten me thinking about when �treating children respectfully� becomes
�treating children like they are stupid�.



Jayn and I had just arrived at Art Zone � a storefront art play house with
tables, innumerable craft supplies, and a wet room. We paused to greet one
of the families we were meeting, where the little girl (also 4.5) was
reading a book spread on the floor partially blocking the path. She started
telling me something about the book and I made some appreciative comment,
and was about to move on when the moderator (for want of a better word) came
over.



She got down on the floor beside Sophia, and in a very gentle voice launched
into a lengthy talk about how Sophia was blocking the path and look how your
friends can�t get past and we need this walkway and it must be a great book
but would you mind moving to another place or could you come up with another
idea? Blah blah in a very sing songy voice � you know the one � the �talking
to little kids so they don�t feel bad� voice.



I was kind of caught by surprise, mostly because I didn�t need help getting
by. I had intended to speak to Sophia like she was a rational person and
just say �Excuse me� and pass. I think Jayn had already said that and run
ahead to meet up with her other friend. Sophia couldn�t get away fast enough
� and it was clear to me the book was no longer holding her interest and she
wanted to follow Jayn.



My thought is that this kind of sweetly excessive speech is almost as
disrespectful as bossing, in a kind of insidious creeping put-down way. I
know it really is better than embarrassing the kid with orders, but it just
seems so false. If it were an adult, wouldn�t you just say �Excuse me� and
expect that after a couple (or even one) of those the adult would look
around and notice � �Oh I�m in the way� - and shift? At most how about
calmly saying with a smile, �Sophia your book is blocking the path�. I try
to avoid using that kind of �down to� talk. I find it maddening to have to
listen to it in others. Is it just me? Am I crazy?



Robyn L. Coburn














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[email protected]

-=- I try

to avoid using that kind of “down to” talk. I find it maddening to have to

listen to it in others. Is it just me? Am I crazy?-=-

You're not crazy, but it IS hard to discuss. I've always considered that
"the poodle voice," the "you like Schookums" voice women used to (probably still
do) when they're talking to their poodle (and sometimes actually trying to
communicate with the people around them in that horrible bank-shot way).

Here's something glorious from another list a few years ago (thanks again Dan
Vilter!)


Subj: Re: [AlwaysLearning] struggling
Date: Sunday, December 9, 2001 10:51:02 AM
From: dvilter@...
To: [email protected]

> The little sing-songy tone of voice, the little musical "Ooh, you're such a
> GOOD girl!" gags me. I've always called that talking like they're talking
to
> a French poodle. It's horrible.

At a park day, we were having a discussion about the usefulness of praise
and sincerity. The unschoolers in the group were trying to point out the
fallacy of over and insincere praise, and indirectly about treating your
children as people first. After much talk getting nowhere, one of the other
unschooling parents turned to me and in the French poodle voice started
thanking me for all the things I had done for the group that day. Something
like,"Oh Dan, thank you for bringing the stove for hot cocoa. You did such a
good job setting it up and heating the water! You're so strong carrying that
big jug of water all by yourself!" Everyone had a good laugh and the point
was succinctly made.

-Dan Vilter

Danielle Conger

My thought is that this kind of sweetly excessive speech is almost as
disrespectful as bossing, in a kind of insidious creeping put-down way. I
know it really is better than embarrassing the kid with orders, but it just
seems so false. If it were an adult, wouldn't you just say "Excuse me" and
expect that after a couple (or even one) of those the adult would look
around and notice - "Oh I'm in the way" - and shift? At most how about
calmly saying with a smile, "Sophia your book is blocking the path". I try
to avoid using that kind of "down to" talk. I find it maddening to have to
listen to it in others. Is it just me? Am I crazy?
==================

See, I wouldn't call that woman "respectful" at all--I think that tone *is*
downright disrespectful, regardless of what she thought she was doing.

But, with younger children, I don't think I'd say something as vague as just
"excuse me" either. I'd probably just say, "Sopia, would you mind moving
over there with your book so people can get by?"

I guess I'm trying to say that there's a middle ground that I think is
important for younger children because it demonstrates the reasoning behind
the request. There's something in the middle of no information and drippy,
sweeet lecturing, if you know what I mean.

--Danielle

http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html

eriksmama2001

Yes, I've heard it called a mini-lecturein the book Living Joyfully
With Children. I can't stand to be on the receiving end and goodness
knows that I NEVER succumb to this myself. (Uh, trying not to squirm
in my chair.)

Pat


--- In [email protected], "Danielle Conger"
<danielle.conger@c...> wrote:
> My thought is that this kind of sweetly excessive speech is almost
as
> disrespectful as bossing, in a kind of insidious creeping put-down
way. I
> know it really is better than embarrassing the kid with orders, but
it just
> seems so false. If it were an adult, wouldn't you just say "Excuse
me" and
> expect that after a couple (or even one) of those the adult would
look
> around and notice - "Oh I'm in the way" - and shift? At most how
about
> calmly saying with a smile, "Sophia your book is blocking the
path". I try
> to avoid using that kind of "down to" talk. I find it maddening to
have to
> listen to it in others. Is it just me? Am I crazy?
> ==================
>
> See, I wouldn't call that woman "respectful" at all--I think that
tone *is*
> downright disrespectful, regardless of what she thought she was
doing.
>
> But, with younger children, I don't think I'd say something as
vague as just
> "excuse me" either. I'd probably just say, "Sopia, would you mind
moving
> over there with your book so people can get by?"
>
> I guess I'm trying to say that there's a middle ground that I think
is
> important for younger children because it demonstrates the
reasoning behind
> the request. There's something in the middle of no information and
drippy,
> sweeet lecturing, if you know what I mean.
>
> --Danielle
>
> http://www.danielleconger.com/Homeschool/Welcomehome.html

pam sorooshian

On Aug 4, 2004, at 1:23 PM, Danielle Conger wrote:

> My thought is that this kind of sweetly excessive speech is almost as
> disrespectful as bossing, in a kind of insidious creeping put-down
> way. I
> know it really is better than embarrassing the kid with orders, but it
> just
> seems so false.

I try to be really forgiving of it, though, because I know people who
use it because they ARE "faking it" - in the sense that it isn't
natural for them to respond to children respectfully and "normally."
These are people with really strong "parent tapes" who have to fight
their own automatic responses. It sounds forced and fake, but it is WAY
better to talk to a kid sweetly, even if it is sickeningly sweet, than
to hit them.

-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/5/04 12:01:46 AM, pamsoroosh@... writes:

<< I try to be really forgiving of it, though, because I know people who
use it because they ARE "faking it" - in the sense that it isn't
natural for them to respond to children respectfully and "normally." >>

It IS better than "shut up, you little brat" which I heard innumerable times
from my dear mother.

Sandra

Sang

--- In [email protected], "Robyn Coburn"
<dezigna@c...> wrote:
> My thought is that this kind of sweetly excessive speech is almost
>as disrespectful as bossing, in a kind of insidious creeping put-
>down way. I know it really is better than embarrassing the kid with
>orders, but it just seems so false. If it were an adult, wouldn't
>you just say "Excuse me" and expect that after a couple (or even
>one) of those the adult would look around and notice – "Oh I'm in
>the way" - and shift? At most how about calmly saying with a
>smile, "Sophia your book is blocking the path". I try to avoid
>using that kind of "down to" talk. I find it maddening to have to
>listen to it in others. Is it just me? Am I crazy?
>
>
> Robyn L. Coburn


Good points, Robyn-thank you!

Peace,
Sang