Andrea Burlingame

Argh!! My children are acting like beasts on a daily basis lately! Stella, the 4 yo, screams bloody murder at Annie, the 3 yo (wonder where she got that...sigh), but usually doesn't physically hurt anyone.

Annie, my almost 3.5 yo, has always been a bit brutish towards people for no apparent reason. She is often very sweet and loving as well, but for some reason, she will haul off and hit or kick Stella, the 4 yo, for no apparent reason, or she'll poke her in the eyes, just because. (Sometimes the reason is apparent--Stella has been annoying her in some way, but there are definitely many times when Annie just gets a wild a hair and hurts Stella or the baby.) She has been doing this alot lately for whatever reason--oh, I'm sure there is one, but it's still not okay. Just now, she slapped Stella hard in the face. She did the same thing last night and yesterday afternoon. Yesterday in the bathtub, she kicked her repeatedly in the neck and head, while I was changing the baby's diaper. This morning, after removing her from the scene (they were all playing with blocks in the bedroom), and telling her that I will not allow her to hurt Stella, I asked her why she hit her. She smiled and said, "I just wanted to." She was using this "little miss innocent, aren't I funny?" voice that she uses for just this sort of occasion. I don't like it at all. I didn't let her go back in to play for a little while. I told her that when she hurts the other kids, I have to protect them by removing her until I trust she can play without hurting anyone. I was quite stern with her. When I did let her go back in after about 2 minutes, she wasted no time jumping on Evan, the 13 mo old, and wouldn't let him up! ARGH! I brought her back out, explaining again, that it's not okay for her to hurt the other kids. I again told her that I am her mommy and also Stella and Evan's mommy, and I won't allow anyone to hurt any of them, including her. She bellowed at the top of her lungs and strenuously resisted her removal and pitched a serious fit while in my company. Finally she calmed down, and I hugged her and told her she could play again, but would be removed if she hurt anyone. Now I am wondering when it will happen again, because my experience tells me that it will, and probably very soon.

Actually, Annie is the most difficult to raise of all my children. She is as cute as can be (actually looks like some renaissance painting of a cherub--she's chubby with rosy cheeks, big blue eyes and curly golden hair) and she's very lovey, huggy, and also very imaginative. She is very good at creating her own entertainment, even with just her fingers to animate. I love her dearly, of course. She is, however, VERY contrary and stubborn. She does everything in her own way and time. She first crawled when she was 13 months old. She first walked at 18 mos. Didn't really trying talking in earnest until she was close to turning 3. Not only did she not seem ready, but she seemed to prefer just yelling and making awful noises. She is still deciding whether she wants to use the toilet or her pants, though, thankfully, she seems to be choosing the toilet more. (Always refused to use the little potty, even though she is very short compared to other kids her age.) Before I had her, I thought I had a handle on most parenting issues. HA! She challenges almost everything at some point. She is and always has been extremely difficult to redirect. Used to be she wouldn't let you hold her when she was angry, but would freak out when you put her down. (She's grown out of that for the most part, though, and welcomes my hugs when she is upset now.) She would fuss and kick me hard all night when I was still nursing her, digging her toes into my thighs when she was still sleeping with me, but would yell and yell if I tried to get her to sleep elsewhere. She is unusually loud, too. More than once, someone from several houses away has come to my door to see if "everything was okay." We laugh about it, especially now, but man, she was and is a trip! She is the only child that has actually embarrased me enough that I left a store (a thrift store at that!) without getting what I went in for! I wouldn't let her play with a broken glass vase, and she went ballistic. She started yelling so loudly it actually startled me and several other shoppers who looked over in amazement, and then she smacked me hard, right in the face, in front of them all. The two older ladies shopping the same aisle were astonished. I actually stayed quite calm, I held her hands to keep her from doing it again (she was trying), told Stella I was sorry but because of the way Annie was behaving, we had to go, and I hightailed it straight out of there without purchasing anything I had in my cart. Actually, I never had any trouble at all in stores or restaurants--just fun--until Annie. I hate to say it, but if there is a cog in the wheel of our family plans, you can bet Annie put it there! Anyway, she is an original, at least in our family. I welcome any unschooling advice, for dealing with her, because I have found nothing that really consistently works. And I don't know what to do about all this hitting and kicking of the other kids.

Also, my one year old is starting to be very aggressive when he's frustrated. He hits and he bites...hard. He drew blood on me the other day. I know some of it is because he is getting his one year molars, but he clearly bites when he is being thwarted in some way. I usually deal with it by moving him away from me if he is biting me, and saying, "biting hurts." I do the same when he is biting the kids. I will say that it is interesting that Annie is getting a bit of her own medicine, though she has never really been a biter (thank goodness!) The other day, she actually had three visible bite marks on her. And he is driven to pull her hair when she is watching a movie or is otherwise occupied. It helps that I can show her that I won't let Evan keep biting her and pulling her hair, just like I won't let her hit and push him. I think it is helping her to have something else to think about in relation to what she does. Does that make sense? Anyway, if there is something else I can do to help them all to learn to treat each other better, I welcome the ideas.

Thanks for reading this long post.

~Andrea


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Vijay Berry Owens

Hi. I don't post here too often because my DD is only 14 months old, but
we are committed to unschooling. I read the list as much as I can in
between chasing her around. She didn't crawl until 10 months and didn't
walk until 13 but she has always managed to be quite a handful, no
matter how mobile she was at the time. :-)

I am sorry to hear that your kids are frustrating you so much. It must
be difficult to deal with that sort of behavior and keep your patience.
I send you hugs and soothing vibes.

I just wanted to say that while I don't have experience dealing with
these issues with a 3 or 4 y.o. I did have some problems with DD hitting
and biting (me) over the past few months and got some great advice at an
AP discipline group that was just started recently.

I don't know if you consider your style attachment parenting but the
more experienced parents in that group really helped me with my issues
and maybe could help you too. You could just post that exact same
message that you already wrote (I know it's hard to find time to write
with one kid, let alone 3) and see what they say.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AP-Discipline/

Best wishes,

Vijay Berry Owens
SAHM to Charlotte, 14 months


On Thursday, July 29, 2004, at 01:49 PM, Andrea Burlingame wrote:

> Argh!!� My children are acting like beasts on a daily basis lately!�
> Stella, the 4 yo, screams bloody murder at Annie, the 3 yo (wonder
> where she got that...sigh), but usually doesn't physically hurt anyone.
>
> Annie, my almost 3.5 yo, has always been a bit brutish towards people
> for no apparent reason.� She is often very sweet and loving as well,
> but for some reason, she will haul off and hit or kick Stella, the 4
> yo, for no apparent reason, or she'll poke her in the eyes, just
> because. (Sometimes the reason is apparent--Stella has been annoying
> her in some way, but there are definitely many times when Annie just
> gets a wild a hair and hurts Stella or the baby.)� She has been doing
> this alot lately for whatever reason--oh, I'm sure there is one, but
> it's still not okay.� Just now, she slapped Stella hard in the face.�
> She did the same thing last night and yesterday afternoon.� Yesterday
> in the bathtub, she kicked her repeatedly in the neck and head, while I
> was changing the baby's diaper.� This morning, after removing her from
> the scene (they were all playing with blocks in the bedroom), and
> telling her that I will not allow her to hurt Stella, I asked her why
> she hit her.� She smiled and said, "I just wanted to."� She was using
> this "little miss innocent, aren't I funny?" voice that she uses for
> just this sort of occasion.� I don't like it at all.� I didn't let her
> go back in to play for a little while.� I told her that when she hurts
> the other kids, I have to protect them by removing her until I trust
> she can play without hurting anyone. I was quite stern with her. When I
> did let her go back in after about 2 minutes, she wasted no time
> jumping on Evan, the 13 mo old, and wouldn't let him up!� ARGH!� I
> brought her back out, explaining again, that it's not okay for her to
> hurt the other kids.� I again told her that I am her mommy and also
> Stella and Evan's mommy, and I won't allow anyone to hurt any of them,
> including her.� She bellowed at the top of her lungs and strenuously
> resisted her removal and pitched a serious fit while in my company.�
> Finally she calmed down, and I hugged her and told her she could play
> again, but would be removed if she hurt anyone.� Now I am wondering
> when it will happen again, because my experience tells me that it will,
> and probably very soon.
>
> Actually, Annie is the most difficult to raise of all my children.� She
> is as cute as can be (actually looks like some renaissance painting of
> a cherub--she's chubby with rosy cheeks, big blue eyes and curly golden
> hair) and� she's very lovey, huggy, and also very imaginative.� She is
> very good at creating her own entertainment, even with just her fingers
> to animate.� I love her dearly, of course. She is, however, VERY
> contrary and stubborn.� She does everything in her own way and time.
> She first crawled when she was 13 months old.� She first walked at 18
> mos.� Didn't really trying talking in earnest until she was close to
> turning 3.� Not only did she not seem ready, but she seemed to prefer
> just yelling and making awful noises.� She is still deciding whether
> she wants to use the toilet or her pants, though, thankfully, she seems
> to be choosing the toilet more. (Always refused to use the little
> potty, even though she is very short compared to other kids her age.)�
> Before I had her, I thought I had a handle on most parenting issues.�
> HA!� She challenges almost everything at some point.� She is and always
> has been extremely difficult to redirect.� Used to be she wouldn't let
> you hold her when she was angry, but would freak out when you put her
> down.� (She's grown out of that for the most part, though, and welcomes
> my hugs when she is upset now.) She would fuss and kick me hard all
> night when I was still nursing her, digging her toes into my thighs
> when she was still sleeping with me, but would yell and yell if I tried
> to get her to sleep elsewhere.� She is unusually loud, too.� More than
> once, someone from several houses away has come to my door to see if
> "everything was okay."� We laugh about it, especially now, but man, she
> was and is a trip!� She is the only child that has actually embarrased
> me enough that I left a store (a thrift store at that!) without getting
> what I went in for! I wouldn't let her play with a broken glass vase,
> and she went ballistic.� She started yelling so loudly it actually
> startled me and several other shoppers who looked over in amazement,
> and then she smacked me hard, right in the face, in front of them all.�
> The two older ladies shopping the same aisle were astonished.� I
> actually stayed quite calm,� I held her hands to keep her from doing it
> again (she was trying), told Stella I was sorry but because of the way
> Annie was behaving, we had to go, and I hightailed it straight out of
> there without purchasing anything I had in my cart.� Actually, I never
> had any trouble at all in stores or restaurants--just fun--until
> Annie.� I hate to say it, but if there is a cog in the wheel of our
> family plans, you can bet Annie put it there!� Anyway, she is an
> original, at least in our family.� I welcome any unschooling advice,
> for dealing with her, because I have found nothing that really
> consistently works.� And I don't know what to do about all this hitting
> and kicking of the other kids.
>
> Also, my one year old is starting to be very aggressive when he's
> frustrated.� He hits and he bites...hard.� He drew blood on me the
> other day.� I know some of it is because he is getting his one year
> molars, but he clearly bites when he is being thwarted in some way.� I
> usually deal with it by moving him away from me if he is biting me, and
> saying, "biting hurts."� I do the same when he is biting the kids.� I
> will say that it is interesting that Annie is getting a bit of her own
> medicine, though she has never really been a biter (thank goodness!)�
> The other day, she actually had three visible bite marks on her.� And
> he is driven to pull her hair when she is watching a movie or is
> otherwise occupied.� It helps that I can show her that I won't let Evan
> keep biting her and pulling her hair, just like I won't let her hit and
> push him.� I think it is helping her to have something else to think
> about in relation to what she does.� Does that make sense?� Anyway, if
> there is something else I can do to help them all to learn to treat
> each other better, I welcome the ideas.
>
> Thanks for reading this long post.
>
> ~Andrea
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>

>
>

>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> � To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
> �
> � To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
> �
> � Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

eriksmama2001

Have I already mentioned the books:

How to Talk so Your Kids Will Listen, and How to Listen so Your Kids
Will Talk

Raising Your Spirited Child

Siblings Without Rivalry

Living Joyfully With Children?

The major jist is "what you focus on, you get more of". If they are
engaged in something more fun than fighting, I believe you will see
them having fun instead. You can not do it all alone.

Pat

--- In [email protected], "Andrea Burlingame"
<aburlingame@c...> wrote:
> Argh!! My children are acting like beasts on a daily basis
lately! Stella, the 4 yo, screams bloody murder at Annie, the 3 yo
(wonder where she got that...sigh), but usually doesn't physically
hurt anyone.
>
> Annie, my almost 3.5 yo, has always been a bit brutish towards
people for no apparent reason. She is often very sweet and loving as
well, but for some reason, she will haul off and hit or kick Stella,
the 4 yo, for no apparent reason, or she'll poke her in the eyes,
just because. (Sometimes the reason is apparent--Stella has been
annoying her in some way, but there are definitely many times when
Annie just gets a wild a hair and hurts Stella or the baby.) She has
been doing this alot lately for whatever reason--oh, I'm sure there
is one, but it's still not okay. Just now, she slapped Stella hard
in the face. She did the same thing last night and yesterday
afternoon. Yesterday in the bathtub, she kicked her repeatedly in
the neck and head, while I was changing the baby's diaper. This
morning, after removing her from the scene (they were all playing
with blocks in the bedroom), and telling her that I will not allow
her to hurt Stella, I asked her why she hit her. She smiled and
said, "I just wanted to." She was using this "little miss innocent,
aren't I funny?" voice that she uses for just this sort of occasion.
I don't like it at all. I didn't let her go back in to play for a
little while. I told her that when she hurts the other kids, I have
to protect them by removing her until I trust she can play without
hurting anyone. I was quite stern with her. When I did let her go
back in after about 2 minutes, she wasted no time jumping on Evan,
the 13 mo old, and wouldn't let him up! ARGH! I brought her back
out, explaining again, that it's not okay for her to hurt the other
kids. I again told her that I am her mommy and also Stella and
Evan's mommy, and I won't allow anyone to hurt any of them, including
her. She bellowed at the top of her lungs and strenuously resisted
her removal and pitched a serious fit while in my company. Finally
she calmed down, and I hugged her and told her she could play again,
but would be removed if she hurt anyone. Now I am wondering when it
will happen again, because my experience tells me that it will, and
probably very soon.
>
> Actually, Annie is the most difficult to raise of all my children.
She is as cute as can be (actually looks like some renaissance
painting of a cherub--she's chubby with rosy cheeks, big blue eyes
and curly golden hair) and she's very lovey, huggy, and also very
imaginative. She is very good at creating her own entertainment,
even with just her fingers to animate. I love her dearly, of course.
She is, however, VERY contrary and stubborn. She does everything in
her own way and time. She first crawled when she was 13 months old.
She first walked at 18 mos. Didn't really trying talking in earnest
until she was close to turning 3. Not only did she not seem ready,
but she seemed to prefer just yelling and making awful noises. She
is still deciding whether she wants to use the toilet or her pants,
though, thankfully, she seems to be choosing the toilet more. (Always
refused to use the little potty, even though she is very short
compared to other kids her age.) Before I had her, I thought I had a
handle on most parenting issues. HA! She challenges almost
everything at some point. She is and always has been extremely
difficult to redirect. Used to be she wouldn't let you hold her when
she was angry, but would freak out when you put her down. (She's
grown out of that for the most part, though, and welcomes my hugs
when she is upset now.) She would fuss and kick me hard all night
when I was still nursing her, digging her toes into my thighs when
she was still sleeping with me, but would yell and yell if I tried to
get her to sleep elsewhere. She is unusually loud, too. More than
once, someone from several houses away has come to my door to see
if "everything was okay." We laugh about it, especially now, but
man, she was and is a trip! She is the only child that has actually
embarrased me enough that I left a store (a thrift store at that!)
without getting what I went in for! I wouldn't let her play with a
broken glass vase, and she went ballistic. She started yelling so
loudly it actually startled me and several other shoppers who looked
over in amazement, and then she smacked me hard, right in the face,
in front of them all. The two older ladies shopping the same aisle
were astonished. I actually stayed quite calm, I held her hands to
keep her from doing it again (she was trying), told Stella I was
sorry but because of the way Annie was behaving, we had to go, and I
hightailed it straight out of there without purchasing anything I had
in my cart. Actually, I never had any trouble at all in stores or
restaurants--just fun--until Annie. I hate to say it, but if there
is a cog in the wheel of our family plans, you can bet Annie put it
there! Anyway, she is an original, at least in our family. I
welcome any unschooling advice, for dealing with her, because I have
found nothing that really consistently works. And I don't know what
to do about all this hitting and kicking of the other kids.
>
> Also, my one year old is starting to be very aggressive when he's
frustrated. He hits and he bites...hard. He drew blood on me the
other day. I know some of it is because he is getting his one year
molars, but he clearly bites when he is being thwarted in some way.
I usually deal with it by moving him away from me if he is biting me,
and saying, "biting hurts." I do the same when he is biting the
kids. I will say that it is interesting that Annie is getting a bit
of her own medicine, though she has never really been a biter (thank
goodness!) The other day, she actually had three visible bite marks
on her. And he is driven to pull her hair when she is watching a
movie or is otherwise occupied. It helps that I can show her that I
won't let Evan keep biting her and pulling her hair, just like I
won't let her hit and push him. I think it is helping her to have
something else to think about in relation to what she does. Does
that make sense? Anyway, if there is something else I can do to help
them all to learn to treat each other better, I welcome the ideas.
>
> Thanks for reading this long post.
>
> ~Andrea
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

J. Stauffer

Hi Andrea,

I just have to say that as I read your post, my head literally began to
swim. It was like you were talking very loud and very fast with tremendous
energy.

I may be way off base here but my guess would be that your house is feeling
that way right now. Breathe deep. Meditate or something. Make a smoothie.
Whatever but calm down. Your kids cannot calm down until you do.

Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrea Burlingame" <aburlingame@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 12:49 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Hitting, Biting, etc... (longish)


> Argh!! My children are acting like beasts on a daily basis lately!
Stella, the 4 yo, screams bloody murder at Annie, the 3 yo (wonder where she
got that...sigh), but usually doesn't physically hurt anyone.
>
> Annie, my almost 3.5 yo, has always been a bit brutish towards people for
no apparent reason. She is often very sweet and loving as well, but for
some reason, she will haul off and hit or kick Stella, the 4 yo, for no
apparent reason, or she'll poke her in the eyes, just because. (Sometimes
the reason is apparent--Stella has been annoying her in some way, but there
are definitely many times when Annie just gets a wild a hair and hurts
Stella or the baby.) She has been doing this alot lately for whatever
reason--oh, I'm sure there is one, but it's still not okay. Just now, she
slapped Stella hard in the face. She did the same thing last night and
yesterday afternoon. Yesterday in the bathtub, she kicked her repeatedly in
the neck and head, while I was changing the baby's diaper. This morning,
after removing her from the scene (they were all playing with blocks in the
bedroom), and telling her that I will not allow her to hurt Stella, I asked
her why she hit her. She smiled and said, "I just wanted to." She was
using this "little miss innocent, aren't I funny?" voice that she uses for
just this sort of occasion. I don't like it at all. I didn't let her go
back in to play for a little while. I told her that when she hurts the
other kids, I have to protect them by removing her until I trust she can
play without hurting anyone. I was quite stern with her. When I did let her
go back in after about 2 minutes, she wasted no time jumping on Evan, the 13
mo old, and wouldn't let him up! ARGH! I brought her back out, explaining
again, that it's not okay for her to hurt the other kids. I again told her
that I am her mommy and also Stella and Evan's mommy, and I won't allow
anyone to hurt any of them, including her. She bellowed at the top of her
lungs and strenuously resisted her removal and pitched a serious fit while
in my company. Finally she calmed down, and I hugged her and told her she
could play again, but would be removed if she hurt anyone. Now I am
wondering when it will happen again, because my experience tells me that it
will, and probably very soon.
>
> Actually, Annie is the most difficult to raise of all my children. She is
as cute as can be (actually looks like some renaissance painting of a
cherub--she's chubby with rosy cheeks, big blue eyes and curly golden hair)
and she's very lovey, huggy, and also very imaginative. She is very good
at creating her own entertainment, even with just her fingers to animate. I
love her dearly, of course. She is, however, VERY contrary and stubborn.
She does everything in her own way and time. She first crawled when she was
13 months old. She first walked at 18 mos. Didn't really trying talking in
earnest until she was close to turning 3. Not only did she not seem ready,
but she seemed to prefer just yelling and making awful noises. She is still
deciding whether she wants to use the toilet or her pants, though,
thankfully, she seems to be choosing the toilet more. (Always refused to use
the little potty, even though she is very short compared to other kids her
age.) Before I had her, I thought I had a handle on most parenting issues.
HA! She challenges almost everything at some point. She is and always has
been extremely difficult to redirect. Used to be she wouldn't let you hold
her when she was angry, but would freak out when you put her down. (She's
grown out of that for the most part, though, and welcomes my hugs when she
is upset now.) She would fuss and kick me hard all night when I was still
nursing her, digging her toes into my thighs when she was still sleeping
with me, but would yell and yell if I tried to get her to sleep elsewhere.
She is unusually loud, too. More than once, someone from several houses
away has come to my door to see if "everything was okay." We laugh about
it, especially now, but man, she was and is a trip! She is the only child
that has actually embarrased me enough that I left a store (a thrift store
at that!) without getting what I went in for! I wouldn't let her play with a
broken glass vase, and she went ballistic. She started yelling so loudly it
actually startled me and several other shoppers who looked over in
amazement, and then she smacked me hard, right in the face, in front of them
all. The two older ladies shopping the same aisle were astonished. I
actually stayed quite calm, I held her hands to keep her from doing it
again (she was trying), told Stella I was sorry but because of the way Annie
was behaving, we had to go, and I hightailed it straight out of there
without purchasing anything I had in my cart. Actually, I never had any
trouble at all in stores or restaurants--just fun--until Annie. I hate to
say it, but if there is a cog in the wheel of our family plans, you can bet
Annie put it there! Anyway, she is an original, at least in our family. I
welcome any unschooling advice, for dealing with her, because I have found
nothing that really consistently works. And I don't know what to do about
all this hitting and kicking of the other kids.
>
> Also, my one year old is starting to be very aggressive when he's
frustrated. He hits and he bites...hard. He drew blood on me the other
day. I know some of it is because he is getting his one year molars, but he
clearly bites when he is being thwarted in some way. I usually deal with it
by moving him away from me if he is biting me, and saying, "biting hurts."
I do the same when he is biting the kids. I will say that it is interesting
that Annie is getting a bit of her own medicine, though she has never really
been a biter (thank goodness!) The other day, she actually had three
visible bite marks on her. And he is driven to pull her hair when she is
watching a movie or is otherwise occupied. It helps that I can show her
that I won't let Evan keep biting her and pulling her hair, just like I
won't let her hit and push him. I think it is helping her to have something
else to think about in relation to what she does. Does that make sense?
Anyway, if there is something else I can do to help them all to learn to
treat each other better, I welcome the ideas.
>
> Thanks for reading this long post.
>
> ~Andrea
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Andrea Burlingame

Pat said:
> Have I already mentioned the books: (**and there was a whole, helpful
list)

**parenthesis mine--Andrea


I have read Siblings Without Rivalry and How to Talk so Your Kids Will
Listen, and How to Listen so Your Kids
Will Talk. They were helpful. I think I will look at them again. Maybe
I'm forgetting something that I could be doing.

Pat said:
> The major jist is "what you focus on, you get more of". If they are
> engaged in something more fun than fighting, I believe you will see
> them having fun instead.

It is true that when we are out and about, either at the beach or out
hiking, or at the library or wherever and they are having fun, they don't
fight. I do have to stay home some days and clean up some so we can enjoy
our home. On those days, there is lots of bickering. Also--and I think
that this is part of why I'm finding things so overwhelming lately--my
youngest is really getting around well now, and into EVERYTHING. I now
cannot have any chairs at the dining room table, unless we are eating or
someone is already sitting in them, because he will climb up there over and
over again, relentlessly! He also wants to make art with the girls, but
always ends up eating the supplies. Now that he's able to get up on the
table so easily, they are having a hard time finding a place to create that
he can't interrupt. I have to keep after him and console him when he is
thwarted yet again! Plus, Annie is still peeing on the floor (or the bed,
or the chairs and her clothes) every other day. Just when I think she's got
it under control, she decides she doesn't want to bother again and just pees
where she is. Ugh...

Anyway, I guess I'm just frustrated because things are intense right now,
and I can't catch a break. There hasn't been a really calm day at home for
quite awhile. Guess I need to wait for the cycle to come around again to a
time of more equilibrium!

Sometimes I find that after I post that I feel bad, because it seems like
I'm bashing my kids behind their backs to total strangers. Yet I find that
I need to talk, because I get so caught up in the experience that I can't
think straight. I do want to say that I also have ALOT of fun with my kids.
They are funny and interesting. They are beautiful and full of life and
energy. Many times during the day, they do nice things for me and for each
other. Sometimes I am amazed at the things they do to help each other! And
they show me so much about the world, sometimes things that I hadn't thought
of before. Sometime when I'm not feeling so overwhelmed by parenthood, I'll
post about why I so enjoy being with them and wouldn't want it any other
way!

~Andrea

Andrea Burlingame

Julie S said:

==Hi Andrea,

I just have to say that as I read your post, my head literally began to
swim. It was like you were talking very loud and very fast with tremendous
energy.

I may be way off base here but my guess would be that your house is feeling
that way right now. Breathe deep. Meditate or something. Make a smoothie.
Whatever but calm down. Your kids cannot calm down until you do.==

I'm not sure what to say, because it is certain that I don't feel very calm.
On the other hand, it's not for lack of trying. I'm actually a very calm
person for the most part--never had high blood pressure at any checkup, love
to lounge with a good book, never stay mad long. I do get upset, and it can
be explosive (loud and energetic), but I calm down quickly and relaxing
isn't really a problem for me normally. Problem is, my children have lately
kept me from relaxing at all (unintentionally, of course.) If I sit down
with a cup of tea after playing with them or serving lunch and cleaning the
kitchen, I can't even finish it without getting up several times to deal
with something. I don't suppose that this is unsual for a mother with 3
young children, and I guess that's the crux of it. I'm thinking that unless
I can come up with some money for an occasional sitter or mother's helper,
then this is it for awhile. I can't tell you how much I wish I could truly
relax for a WHOLE day! LOL

Anyway, sorry to overwhelm everyone with my long and intense post. I'm kind
of embarrassed now. Oh well, I'm embarrassed even when I'm all alone with
myself. I hear this voice in my head, "What's wrong with you? Breathe.
How can this be so hard?"

~Andrea

Andrea Burlingame

Pat said:
==You can not do it all alone.==

I can, but not very well, it's seeming. This is the main problem. I'm
overwhelmed.

~Andrea

eriksmama2001

I have a 16 y/o girl come to play for two hours once or twice a week,
$10 for two hours. I can live without many other things in order to
have her come help me remain sane. I need the time too. You need the
time. If it is important to have some time for yourself you need to
create it.

I have found that trying to "have time for myself" while doing the
full time mama job makes me feel stretched too far. It works better
for me to have a little uninterrupted time. When I am on duty, mama
doesn't get time for Pat. It sets Pat up for failure when mama is on
duty. Make time for Andrea instead of trying to steal it all day and
being frustrated. Three little ones can't wait, so it is a self-
defeating proposition if you don't refill your reserves occasionally
with time "off" by yourself. So, someone needs to be "on duty" for
them.

You are evidently an extrovert who thinks out loud. I know this is
cathartic and helpful for you to work through this process. I am the
same way. My friends helped me to learn to care for myself. You need
to do the same.

Pat

--- In [email protected], "Andrea Burlingame"
<aburlingame@c...> wrote:
> Julie S said:
>
> ==Hi Andrea,
>
> I just have to say that as I read your post, my head literally
began to
> swim. It was like you were talking very loud and very fast with
tremendous
> energy.
>
> I may be way off base here but my guess would be that your house is
feeling
> that way right now. Breathe deep. Meditate or something. Make a
smoothie.
> Whatever but calm down. Your kids cannot calm down until you do.==
>
> I'm not sure what to say, because it is certain that I don't feel
very calm.
> On the other hand, it's not for lack of trying. I'm actually a
very calm
> person for the most part--never had high blood pressure at any
checkup, love
> to lounge with a good book, never stay mad long. I do get upset,
and it can
> be explosive (loud and energetic), but I calm down quickly and
relaxing
> isn't really a problem for me normally. Problem is, my children
have lately
> kept me from relaxing at all (unintentionally, of course.) If I
sit down
> with a cup of tea after playing with them or serving lunch and
cleaning the
> kitchen, I can't even finish it without getting up several times to
deal
> with something. I don't suppose that this is unsual for a mother
with 3
> young children, and I guess that's the crux of it. I'm thinking
that unless
> I can come up with some money for an occasional sitter or mother's
helper,
> then this is it for awhile. I can't tell you how much I wish I
could truly
> relax for a WHOLE day! LOL
>
> Anyway, sorry to overwhelm everyone with my long and intense post.
I'm kind
> of embarrassed now. Oh well, I'm embarrassed even when I'm all
alone with
> myself. I hear this voice in my head, "What's wrong with you?
Breathe.
> How can this be so hard?"
>
> ~Andrea

Andrea Burlingame

==I have a 16 y/o girl come to play for two hours once or twice a week, $10
for two hours. I can live without many other things in order to have her
come help me remain sane. I need the time too. You need the time. If it is
important to have some time for yourself you need to create it.==

This suggestion has come up many times, and I think it's time I heed it.
I've argued (with myself) that I don't know anyone in this town, I'm really
on too tight of a budget, etc..etc... The way you just put it really hit
me. I HAVE to do this because it's not working the way I'm trying to do it
now. I'm going to post some ads around our little town tomorrow.

Thanks!
Andrea

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/29/04 7:04:45 PM, aburlingame@... writes:

<< If I sit down

with a cup of tea after playing with them or serving lunch and cleaning the

kitchen, I can't even finish it without getting up several times to deal

with something. I don't suppose that this is unsual for a mother with 3

young children, and I guess that's the crux of it. >>

I had three in a five and a half year span.

Today they were all out of the house at same time for a while, all in
different places. It was very quiet. Now Kirby's birthday party is in progress.
There are 20+ people, 16 of them playing Halo on a web of four TVs, and the
others waiting for their turns. Four are in the next room watching one of girls'
dance recital video.

It did seem, when I had two in diapers, that I would never have any quiet or
privacy or sleep or toilet privacy for the rest of my life.

I have a fantasy that comforts me sometimes. I wish for Sundays childless,
Monday infant, Tuesday a toddler, Wednesday a six year old... Older through
the week until they're grown on Saturday and then I have a baby again.

And that is how it goes, only the week is twenty some years long. At first,
childless. Then infant... and somewhere in here I'll have all adults and
it will be over. But it seems so long, and in each phase it gets kind of old,
but in each phase you'll miss the younger ones. I wish I had a kid who would
get really excited about a new bike, or thrilled to see a real tiger for the
first time. There are still excitements and firsts, but it's not as intense
as it is with little kids seeing the world as new.

Sandra

Andrea Burlingame

Sandra said:
==I have a fantasy that comforts me sometimes. I wish for Sundays
childless, Monday infant, Tuesday a toddler, Wednesday a six year old...
Older through the week until they're grown on Saturday and then I have a
baby again.
And that is how it goes, only the week is twenty some years long. At
first, childless. Then infant... and somewhere in here I'll have all
adults and it will be over. But it seems so long, and in each phase it gets
kind of old, but in each phase you'll miss the younger ones. I wish I had a
kid who would get really excited about a new bike, or thrilled to see a real
tiger for the first time. There are still excitements and firsts, but it's
not as intense as it is with little kids seeing the world as new.==

Sandra, thank you for this post. I appreciate the thought that went into
it, and seemingly all of the things you post.

My mil who had her first three children all within a year of each other,
was concerned about me when I told her I was pregnant with the last baby.
She told me that the one thing that really helped her get through those
early years was to repeat to herself that "this won't last forever." It
seems so simple, yet, I often find myself grasping for that very mantra.
Your post, while essentially saying the same thing, added that gentle
reminder that I will miss these years too, so I should enjoy what I can
while it's here. I know this! My oldest is 15, but he is so independent
and has chosen to live with his dad in Alaska. I miss the little golden boy
who was my constant companion, even while I have these new little
companions. To be reminded in such a beautiful way...well, thank you.

Another thought: My mil has 5 kids. The first three and then 10 years
later, my husband, and THEN 8 years after that, her youngest daughter. She
tells me all the time, that there were times when it was so hard, but that
she loves her big family and how much fun it was/is. I look forward to my
family enjoying things together too as my children grow up.

~Andrea

Jill Leggett

I have experienced some aggresssion with my son hitting me. He is 11
years old. Since my husband and I are vegetarians, and we allow him
to make his own choices when we are out, he eats meat sometimes. I
discovered that, on the day after he has had a lot of meat, he is
much more aggressive and even combative. When he is on a strictly
vegetarian diet, he is very calm and cooperative.

J. Stauffer

<<<Oh well, I'm embarrassed even when I'm all alone with
> myself. I hear this voice in my head, "What's wrong with you? Breathe.
> How can this be so hard?">>>

Don't feel bad. It IS hard. Some ages are harder than others. Having 3
small children is one of the hardest. Just even a year or so ago, it wasn't
uncommon for me to slip out the door and lay on the front porch watching the
sun between the leaves of the tree. I could listen to the birds and
breathe, deeply and slowly. It would take a bit for the kids to miss me and
come searching so I would get a few minutes of quiet when I desperately
needed it.

Good luck. I didn't mean to sound accusatory in my post. I have been there
and know the difficult, wonderful, horrible, intense, joyous days you are
having.

Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrea Burlingame" <aburlingame@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Hitting, Biting, etc... (longish)


> Julie S said:
>
> ==Hi Andrea,
>
> I just have to say that as I read your post, my head literally began to
> swim. It was like you were talking very loud and very fast with
tremendous
> energy.
>
> I may be way off base here but my guess would be that your house is
feeling
> that way right now. Breathe deep. Meditate or something. Make a
smoothie.
> Whatever but calm down. Your kids cannot calm down until you do.==
>
> I'm not sure what to say, because it is certain that I don't feel very
calm.
> On the other hand, it's not for lack of trying. I'm actually a very calm
> person for the most part--never had high blood pressure at any checkup,
love
> to lounge with a good book, never stay mad long. I do get upset, and it
can
> be explosive (loud and energetic), but I calm down quickly and relaxing
> isn't really a problem for me normally. Problem is, my children have
lately
> kept me from relaxing at all (unintentionally, of course.) If I sit down
> with a cup of tea after playing with them or serving lunch and cleaning
the
> kitchen, I can't even finish it without getting up several times to deal
> with something. I don't suppose that this is unsual for a mother with 3
> young children, and I guess that's the crux of it. I'm thinking that
unless
> I can come up with some money for an occasional sitter or mother's helper,
> then this is it for awhile. I can't tell you how much I wish I could
truly
> relax for a WHOLE day! LOL
>
> Anyway, sorry to overwhelm everyone with my long and intense post. I'm
kind
> of embarrassed now. Oh well, I'm embarrassed even when I'm all alone with
> myself. I hear this voice in my head, "What's wrong with you? Breathe.
> How can this be so hard?"
>
> ~Andrea
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Andrea Burlingame

Hi Julie,

Thanks for the sentiment. I have also slipped outside to breathe fresh air
and try to regain calm. I often have to rush back in because I hear
screaming and crying, most of the time that is a help. Plus, my kids seem
to know, if they've realized I've stepped out to calm down, that it's time
for everyone to take a breath. Not always, but this does happen. Perhaps
if I practice it more often.

Regards,
Andrea
----- Original Message -----
From: "J. Stauffer" <jnjstau@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 6:53 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Hitting, Biting, etc... (longish)


> <<<Oh well, I'm embarrassed even when I'm all alone with
> > myself. I hear this voice in my head, "What's wrong with you? Breathe.
> > How can this be so hard?">>>
>
> Don't feel bad. It IS hard. Some ages are harder than others. Having 3
> small children is one of the hardest. Just even a year or so ago, it
wasn't
> uncommon for me to slip out the door and lay on the front porch watching
the
> sun between the leaves of the tree. I could listen to the birds and
> breathe, deeply and slowly. It would take a bit for the kids to miss me
and
> come searching so I would get a few minutes of quiet when I desperately
> needed it.
>
> Good luck. I didn't mean to sound accusatory in my post. I have been
there
> and know the difficult, wonderful, horrible, intense, joyous days you are
> having.
>
> Julie S.

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/30/2004 9:10:52 AM Central Standard Time,
vleggett@... writes:

I have experienced some aggresssion with my son hitting me. He is 11
years old. Since my husband and I are vegetarians, and we allow him
to make his own choices when we are out, he eats meat sometimes. I
discovered that, on the day after he has had a lot of meat, he is
much more aggressive and even combative. When he is on a strictly
vegetarian diet, he is very calm and cooperative.





~~~

No matter what may have caused his actions, there is no cause ever for you
to accept hitting from a child as old as 11. No one should hit anyone ever.

I hope you find out what is really causing it.

Karen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Marie

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrea Burlingame [mailto:aburlingame@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 8:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Hitting, Biting, etc...
(longish)

<<It is true that when we are out and about, either at the beach or out
hiking, or at the library or wherever and they are having fun, they don't
fight. I do have to stay home some days and clean up some so we can enjoy
our home. On those days, there is lots of bickering.>>

I've never really realized it until now, but that's how it is in my home
also. I will have to give alot of thought to this! Start making life more
fun for the kids.

<<Also--and I think that this is part of why I'm finding things so
overwhelming lately--my youngest is really getting around well now, and into
EVERYTHING. I now cannot have any chairs at the dining room table, unless
we are eating or someone is already sitting in them, because he will climb
up there over and over again, relentlessly! He also wants to make art with
the girls, but always ends up eating the supplies. Now that he's able to
get up on the table so easily, they are having a hard time finding a place
to create that he can't interrupt. I have to keep after him and console him
when he is thwarted yet again!>>

Oh wow, that is about my biggest problem also! My youngest is 21 months and
she is up on the table if my back is turned. I have to bring her to the
bathroom with me so she doesn't crack her head! Sometimes the oldest will
color with her, but the "colors" end up being eaten, like yours :o) Some of
them are so much work, aren't they! I had no idea a toddler could be so
exhausting, my first two weren't. Third time's the charm and all that.

<<Sometimes I find that after I post that I feel bad, because it seems like
I'm bashing my kids behind their backs to total strangers. Yet I find that
I need to talk, because I get so caught up in the experience that I can't
think straight.>>

It is important to talk about it, and get help sorting it all out in your
head! I don't do it enough really, my family thinks I should spank to solve
the problems (that or send them to school) and that I should go to work.
Being a houseslob just isn't healthy you know lol. You shouldn't feel bad or
guilty at all...do you think your kids will speak of you in positive terms
their whole lives? ;o)

<<I do want to say that I also have ALOT of fun with my kids. They are funny
and interesting. They are beautiful and full of life and energy. Many
times during the day, they do nice things for me and for each other.
Sometimes I am amazed at the things they do to help each other! And they
show me so much about the world, sometimes things that I hadn't thought of
before.>>

Sometimes I feel overwhelmed by my kids, too, really you just said most of
what I'd say to describe them (funny, beautiful,...)

<<Sometime when I'm not feeling so overwhelmed by parenthood, I'll post
about why I so enjoy being with them and wouldn't want it any other way!>>

Yes, and save the post to read on a bad day :o)
Marie

pam sorooshian

On Jul 29, 2004, at 6:04 PM, Andrea Burlingame wrote:

> Anyway, sorry to overwhelm everyone with my long and intense post.
> I'm kind
> of embarrassed now. Oh well, I'm embarrassed even when I'm all alone
> with
> myself. I hear this voice in my head, "What's wrong with you?
> Breathe.
> How can this be so hard?"

It just is. I remember. Try reminding yourself that you're lucky to be
interrupted by your active, healthy, inquisitive, energetic kids. I
don't mean this as a criticism - not saying you should not complain
because others have it worse, or anything like that. I'm saying to try,
specifically, to say say specific words to yourself at the moment that
you're being stressed by the kids' behavior. Right then, at that
moment, say to yourself, "I have healthy, inquisitive,
energetic....kids." Self-talk is important. Use it to get yourself over
the rougher times - don't allow it to make rough times even rougher.

-pam
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