table manner issues
[email protected]
<< My son, the former sixth grader, still occasionally rants at her
about it, and about how she holds her silverware! Both kids may never
completely recover from "school." >>
That's not a school issue.
There's no sense letting a little boy rant at her, but couldn't you talk to
her about the silverware? When kids don't know enough table etiquette to eat
at a nice restaurant, it's not a good thing. Sometimes people are invited
to banquets, at least for weddings but sometimes for social or political
purposes, and it's nice if they know what to do with two forks, where to put the
knife, how to use a breadplate and so forth. And I think it starts with knowing
how to use a spoon for cereal and soup.
Some families don't even ask their kids to eat with their mouths closed.
Someone will ask them later, and it might be the potential housemate or love
interest, in listing the reasons for not wanting to be with the person.
Some things, like courtesy with bathroom sharing and eating and not leaving d
irty clothes where others have to walk (dangerous for the walker, bad for the
clothes, bad for the relationship) and not leaving the mik out to go bad, or
the bread bag open for the bread to dry out or get soggy (depending where the
bread is)... Those aren't the kinds of choices that are good to encourage.
The days of people using pencils for money (bookkeeping by hand, clerical
work by hand) are pretty much gone, and so how a person holds a pencil is minor
in the day of keyboard/computer/data entry. But spoons and forks are still
commonly used at every meal.
If I moved to Japan, I'd really have to practice using chopsticks before I
could eat in a formal situation. But I'd expect people who grew up there to
just know, and do it "right."
If I moved to a place where they eat with pieces of flatbread, same thing.
I'd have to forget what I know about forks, and figure out how to eat politely
their-style.
Yesterday Marty and I was coaching Holly about NOT mentioning to a man (her
dad, in this case) that his hair was getting thin up top. What they can't see
doesn't hurt them, just don't talk about it. She was skeptical, but we
pressed that if she didn't understand it, just trust us and never to ANYone say
anything like that. Marty, who often has his head shaved, said he would
probably feel bad when he started balding, because when he goes bald now, it's out of
choice.
If someone never eats with the mayor or with the 2012 governor's council on
natural learning, it would be nice if it was because they just didn't want to,
not because they had never learned to hold a fork.
Sandra
about it, and about how she holds her silverware! Both kids may never
completely recover from "school." >>
That's not a school issue.
There's no sense letting a little boy rant at her, but couldn't you talk to
her about the silverware? When kids don't know enough table etiquette to eat
at a nice restaurant, it's not a good thing. Sometimes people are invited
to banquets, at least for weddings but sometimes for social or political
purposes, and it's nice if they know what to do with two forks, where to put the
knife, how to use a breadplate and so forth. And I think it starts with knowing
how to use a spoon for cereal and soup.
Some families don't even ask their kids to eat with their mouths closed.
Someone will ask them later, and it might be the potential housemate or love
interest, in listing the reasons for not wanting to be with the person.
Some things, like courtesy with bathroom sharing and eating and not leaving d
irty clothes where others have to walk (dangerous for the walker, bad for the
clothes, bad for the relationship) and not leaving the mik out to go bad, or
the bread bag open for the bread to dry out or get soggy (depending where the
bread is)... Those aren't the kinds of choices that are good to encourage.
The days of people using pencils for money (bookkeeping by hand, clerical
work by hand) are pretty much gone, and so how a person holds a pencil is minor
in the day of keyboard/computer/data entry. But spoons and forks are still
commonly used at every meal.
If I moved to Japan, I'd really have to practice using chopsticks before I
could eat in a formal situation. But I'd expect people who grew up there to
just know, and do it "right."
If I moved to a place where they eat with pieces of flatbread, same thing.
I'd have to forget what I know about forks, and figure out how to eat politely
their-style.
Yesterday Marty and I was coaching Holly about NOT mentioning to a man (her
dad, in this case) that his hair was getting thin up top. What they can't see
doesn't hurt them, just don't talk about it. She was skeptical, but we
pressed that if she didn't understand it, just trust us and never to ANYone say
anything like that. Marty, who often has his head shaved, said he would
probably feel bad when he started balding, because when he goes bald now, it's out of
choice.
If someone never eats with the mayor or with the 2012 governor's council on
natural learning, it would be nice if it was because they just didn't want to,
not because they had never learned to hold a fork.
Sandra
Angela
I have a funny related story. For background you need to know that my dh
sometimes used phrases like..."that guy was two cans short of a six pack" or
"missing a couple of limbs off his tree" when someone does something stupid
esp. with regards to driving or politics. A year or two ago when Lilly was
5 or 6 she took a close look at the to of dh's head and said with regards to
the top of his head, "Daddy, I think your a few pupils short of a
schoolhouse." I almost broke a gut laughing over that one.
A little more on-topic, I think that it's important at some point to show
your children how to eat using common etiquette but I think that many people
really over do table manners rules at home. Home should be where you can
eat and relax and not worry about someone correcting you, as long as your
not being overtly offensive. i.e.. picking your nose or some other
disgusting habit. We've always taken our children out to eat and we eat
more formally in a restaurant than we do at home. It seemed like the kids
picked up on this at a young age and we gently remind them if things get out
of hand that we are dining in a public place and we need to act
respectfully. They learned how to hold a fork by watching us so that's
never been an issue.
Angela ~ :0)
<mailto:game-enthusiast@...> game-enthusiast@...
Sandra wrote:
Yesterday Marty and I was coaching Holly about NOT mentioning to a man (her
dad, in this case) that his hair was getting thin up top. What they can't
see
doesn't hurt them, just don't talk about it.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sometimes used phrases like..."that guy was two cans short of a six pack" or
"missing a couple of limbs off his tree" when someone does something stupid
esp. with regards to driving or politics. A year or two ago when Lilly was
5 or 6 she took a close look at the to of dh's head and said with regards to
the top of his head, "Daddy, I think your a few pupils short of a
schoolhouse." I almost broke a gut laughing over that one.
A little more on-topic, I think that it's important at some point to show
your children how to eat using common etiquette but I think that many people
really over do table manners rules at home. Home should be where you can
eat and relax and not worry about someone correcting you, as long as your
not being overtly offensive. i.e.. picking your nose or some other
disgusting habit. We've always taken our children out to eat and we eat
more formally in a restaurant than we do at home. It seemed like the kids
picked up on this at a young age and we gently remind them if things get out
of hand that we are dining in a public place and we need to act
respectfully. They learned how to hold a fork by watching us so that's
never been an issue.
Angela ~ :0)
<mailto:game-enthusiast@...> game-enthusiast@...
Sandra wrote:
Yesterday Marty and I was coaching Holly about NOT mentioning to a man (her
dad, in this case) that his hair was getting thin up top. What they can't
see
doesn't hurt them, just don't talk about it.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Christina Morrissey
At 08:10
right way" and the constant criticism she experienced doing it the "wrong"
way. My son (now 16and 6'..no 'little kid' kid but a very physically
intimidating soul) in his endearing sibling way continues to remind her of
the "right" way to do things. (Whole 'nother subject and issue...what's
going on between them...)
<<There's no sense letting a little boy rant at her, but couldn't you talk
to her about the silverware?>>
My 12 yr old daughter can hold a fork just fine. It's wielding a knife
that she has problems with. She holds it in her fist at a "different"
angle. She abhors being corrected about ANYTHING!!!!! (Again, because of
the pencil and school thing.) So I don't anymore. I just occasionally
indicate the other way to hold a knife. I figure she'll get where she
needs to be when she needs to. Doesn't bother me. It isn't messy or
anything unsightly. But it isn't successful. She'll work on it in her own
way as she has most things.
knife. To her it's about learning to do it "her own way." She sees what
she sees. She knows the difference. We've "been there." It's the
criticism, and the correction she simply cannot handle from outside
sources. Knowing that she is doing it differently, of course, just
compounds the sensitivity of the issue since it makes her very shy about
practicing and even more touchy. Had she not been made aware of all these
"differences," maybe there wouldn't have been, or not for as long? or
whatever...
> AM 7/10/2004, you wrote:The "school" aspect I'm referring to is the philosophy of the "one and only
>
><< My son, the former sixth grader, still occasionally rants at her about
>it, and about how she holds her silverware! Both kids may never
>completely recover from "school." >>
>
>{{That's not a school issue.}}
right way" and the constant criticism she experienced doing it the "wrong"
way. My son (now 16and 6'..no 'little kid' kid but a very physically
intimidating soul) in his endearing sibling way continues to remind her of
the "right" way to do things. (Whole 'nother subject and issue...what's
going on between them...)
<<There's no sense letting a little boy rant at her, but couldn't you talk
to her about the silverware?>>
My 12 yr old daughter can hold a fork just fine. It's wielding a knife
that she has problems with. She holds it in her fist at a "different"
angle. She abhors being corrected about ANYTHING!!!!! (Again, because of
the pencil and school thing.) So I don't anymore. I just occasionally
indicate the other way to hold a knife. I figure she'll get where she
needs to be when she needs to. Doesn't bother me. It isn't messy or
anything unsightly. But it isn't successful. She'll work on it in her own
way as she has most things.
><< When kids don't know enough table etiquette to eat at a niceAgreed, and thanks for the concern. It's not about learning how to hold a
>restaurant, it's not a good thing. If someone never eats with the mayor
>or with the 2012 governor's council on natural learning, it would be nice
>if it was because they just didn't want to, not because they had never
>learned to hold a fork.>>
knife. To her it's about learning to do it "her own way." She sees what
she sees. She knows the difference. We've "been there." It's the
criticism, and the correction she simply cannot handle from outside
sources. Knowing that she is doing it differently, of course, just
compounds the sensitivity of the issue since it makes her very shy about
practicing and even more touchy. Had she not been made aware of all these
"differences," maybe there wouldn't have been, or not for as long? or
whatever...
Tosca
Sadly I must add that some of these issues do not come from school.
My daughter never went to school and I am not overly critical of her
but she is strong willed and opionated {grumbles something about sins
of the mother} LOL so sometimes I can't tell her anything or help her
with anything ie. how to use a knife for more than just sliding the
food around on her plate.....
She just has this wall up that says she wants to be a Big Girl
without any help when clearly she needs some help or indeed has never
been given any instruction in an area and isn't mastering it on her
own.
I find these struggles agonizing but I am learning to let go and try
to just talk to her about why I want to help and how she can receive
help in the way of instruction from me without giving up control or
the ability to try new things on her own succeed or fail.
Maybe these are just normal parenting issues some of us have to face
is how I look at it.
Tosca
--- In [email protected], Christina Morrissey
My 12 yr abhors being corrected about ANYTHING!!!!! (Again, because
of the pencil and school thing.) .... Had she not been made aware of
all these "differences," maybe there wouldn't have been, or not for
as long? or whatever...
My daughter never went to school and I am not overly critical of her
but she is strong willed and opionated {grumbles something about sins
of the mother} LOL so sometimes I can't tell her anything or help her
with anything ie. how to use a knife for more than just sliding the
food around on her plate.....
She just has this wall up that says she wants to be a Big Girl
without any help when clearly she needs some help or indeed has never
been given any instruction in an area and isn't mastering it on her
own.
I find these struggles agonizing but I am learning to let go and try
to just talk to her about why I want to help and how she can receive
help in the way of instruction from me without giving up control or
the ability to try new things on her own succeed or fail.
Maybe these are just normal parenting issues some of us have to face
is how I look at it.
Tosca
--- In [email protected], Christina Morrissey
My 12 yr abhors being corrected about ANYTHING!!!!! (Again, because
of the pencil and school thing.) .... Had she not been made aware of
all these "differences," maybe there wouldn't have been, or not for
as long? or whatever...
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/12/2004 12:57:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
cmvw@... writes:
It's not about learning how to hold a
knife. To her it's about learning to do it "her own way." She sees what
she sees. She knows the difference. We've "been there." It's the
criticism, and the correction she simply cannot handle from outside
sources. Knowing that she is doing it differently, of course, just
compounds the sensitivity of the issue since it makes her very shy
My 20 yr. old son's last THREE girlfriends had problems with silverware and
not being able to cut their own meat at dinner. All were from very well to
do million dollar home type families, one is the daughter of a politician even.
You would think they could use a knife at the table without embarrassment.
No one in my family embarrassed them about it, but you could tell asking John
to cut their meat after a struggle with it on the plate was embarrassing to
them.
I think it was simply clearly a lack of practice or having a parent do it
for them. They all learned after some time of family dinners and were using a
knife very well before they moved on to different young men.
We eat dinner together every night, knives are used almost every meal. Not
some stuffy requirement but just are there. My kids have had the practice.
Other families that don't have big family meals all the time don't get the
same experience.
Just like everything else in life, when the need presents itself, one will
learn to use the knife and fork IF it's important to them.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cmvw@... writes:
It's not about learning how to hold a
knife. To her it's about learning to do it "her own way." She sees what
she sees. She knows the difference. We've "been there." It's the
criticism, and the correction she simply cannot handle from outside
sources. Knowing that she is doing it differently, of course, just
compounds the sensitivity of the issue since it makes her very shy
My 20 yr. old son's last THREE girlfriends had problems with silverware and
not being able to cut their own meat at dinner. All were from very well to
do million dollar home type families, one is the daughter of a politician even.
You would think they could use a knife at the table without embarrassment.
No one in my family embarrassed them about it, but you could tell asking John
to cut their meat after a struggle with it on the plate was embarrassing to
them.
I think it was simply clearly a lack of practice or having a parent do it
for them. They all learned after some time of family dinners and were using a
knife very well before they moved on to different young men.
We eat dinner together every night, knives are used almost every meal. Not
some stuffy requirement but just are there. My kids have had the practice.
Other families that don't have big family meals all the time don't get the
same experience.
Just like everything else in life, when the need presents itself, one will
learn to use the knife and fork IF it's important to them.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]