4-H question
Ren
"Our experience with 4H has been awful. The signups are basically a starting
line with 'ready set go', and the kids run to what they want to sign up for."
I'm sitting here scratching my head and saying "huh?"
I have no idea what exactly you tried to sign up for, or if 4-H has some bizarre activity day where you live, but that isn't how you sign up for 4-H.
You sign up by contacting your County Extension office and asking for the 4-H coordinatoor, and she/he will give you forms so you can sign up as a family, or hook up with an existing club.
We just formed our own club...you can do that too and they will guide you through the process. We're "The Autodidacts" :) of course. Or more formerly "The Autodidacts Science Club".
As a group, you focus on a group project for the year (or more than one) plus hang out and do fun things together. As a science club, we will focus on environmentalism and nature, but there are horse clubs, agriculture clubs, computer clubs, guide dog clubs, community service clubs etc...
Even though our club is a science focused club, as individuals, my children will pursue whatever they are interested in (that's why 4-H is so unschool friendly for a club) and fill out a project book based on what they want to do. Trevor is focusing on computers, since it's something he would be doing anyway!
In the past, we've incubated eggs, hatched butterflies, made "encouragement houses" for children living with AIDS, etc...
The 4-H office provides us with project books to record their activities and curriculum based on their interests (from marine biology to horsemanship and beyond) and other avenues for the kids to explore topics. Teen Court is held here, and the teens actually act as lawyer, judge and jury..deciding the fate of a teen peer that has been incarcerated. It's the real thing, pretty cool experience for a teen thinking about a legal field. There's county events in which they can create a talk about any topic or be part of the talent show, fair time provides more opportunities to exhibit their work...
The other reason we formed a club, rather than just pursuing these same things on our own, is the grants you can get. There are some amazing places open to us as a club, that wouldn't be otherwise.
One of them is a Marine lab on Dauphin Island where we can participate and actually have a camp for the club...the general public wouldn't be allowed in.
Anyway, 4-H is a very broad club, with many opportunities, I just can't figure out how anything would be "taken" by a sign up day.
Maybe you could clarify.
??
Ren
"There is no way to
peace. Peace is the way."
~Quaker saying
line with 'ready set go', and the kids run to what they want to sign up for."
I'm sitting here scratching my head and saying "huh?"
I have no idea what exactly you tried to sign up for, or if 4-H has some bizarre activity day where you live, but that isn't how you sign up for 4-H.
You sign up by contacting your County Extension office and asking for the 4-H coordinatoor, and she/he will give you forms so you can sign up as a family, or hook up with an existing club.
We just formed our own club...you can do that too and they will guide you through the process. We're "The Autodidacts" :) of course. Or more formerly "The Autodidacts Science Club".
As a group, you focus on a group project for the year (or more than one) plus hang out and do fun things together. As a science club, we will focus on environmentalism and nature, but there are horse clubs, agriculture clubs, computer clubs, guide dog clubs, community service clubs etc...
Even though our club is a science focused club, as individuals, my children will pursue whatever they are interested in (that's why 4-H is so unschool friendly for a club) and fill out a project book based on what they want to do. Trevor is focusing on computers, since it's something he would be doing anyway!
In the past, we've incubated eggs, hatched butterflies, made "encouragement houses" for children living with AIDS, etc...
The 4-H office provides us with project books to record their activities and curriculum based on their interests (from marine biology to horsemanship and beyond) and other avenues for the kids to explore topics. Teen Court is held here, and the teens actually act as lawyer, judge and jury..deciding the fate of a teen peer that has been incarcerated. It's the real thing, pretty cool experience for a teen thinking about a legal field. There's county events in which they can create a talk about any topic or be part of the talent show, fair time provides more opportunities to exhibit their work...
The other reason we formed a club, rather than just pursuing these same things on our own, is the grants you can get. There are some amazing places open to us as a club, that wouldn't be otherwise.
One of them is a Marine lab on Dauphin Island where we can participate and actually have a camp for the club...the general public wouldn't be allowed in.
Anyway, 4-H is a very broad club, with many opportunities, I just can't figure out how anything would be "taken" by a sign up day.
Maybe you could clarify.
??
Ren
"There is no way to
peace. Peace is the way."
~Quaker saying
Have a Nice Day!
Ha. THats not how they do it here.
You call the county extension office and they tell you when the "meeting" is.
You go to the meeting, and then all the "clubs" each have their own table with sign up sheets.
At the end of the meeting you race to whatever club you want and hope you get there in time.
If you get the club you want, THEN you do the project, etc. But you can't pick a club without attending the "meeting" and racing to the table for the first come first serve sign up.
Kristen
You call the county extension office and they tell you when the "meeting" is.
You go to the meeting, and then all the "clubs" each have their own table with sign up sheets.
At the end of the meeting you race to whatever club you want and hope you get there in time.
If you get the club you want, THEN you do the project, etc. But you can't pick a club without attending the "meeting" and racing to the table for the first come first serve sign up.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Ren
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:35 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] 4-H question
"Our experience with 4H has been awful. The signups are basically a starting
line with 'ready set go', and the kids run to what they want to sign up for."
I'm sitting here scratching my head and saying "huh?"
I have no idea what exactly you tried to sign up for, or if 4-H has some bizarre activity day where you live, but that isn't how you sign up for 4-H.
You sign up by contacting your County Extension office and asking for the 4-H coordinatoor, and she/he will give you forms so you can sign up as a family, or hook up with an existing club.
We just formed our own club...you can do that too and they will guide you through the process. We're "The Autodidacts" :) of course. Or more formerly "The Autodidacts Science Club".
As a group, you focus on a group project for the year (or more than one) plus hang out and do fun things together. As a science club, we will focus on environmentalism and nature, but there are horse clubs, agriculture clubs, computer clubs, guide dog clubs, community service clubs etc...
Even though our club is a science focused club, as individuals, my children will pursue whatever they are interested in (that's why 4-H is so unschool friendly for a club) and fill out a project book based on what they want to do. Trevor is focusing on computers, since it's something he would be doing anyway!
In the past, we've incubated eggs, hatched butterflies, made "encouragement houses" for children living with AIDS, etc...
The 4-H office provides us with project books to record their activities and curriculum based on their interests (from marine biology to horsemanship and beyond) and other avenues for the kids to explore topics. Teen Court is held here, and the teens actually act as lawyer, judge and jury..deciding the fate of a teen peer that has been incarcerated. It's the real thing, pretty cool experience for a teen thinking about a legal field. There's county events in which they can create a talk about any topic or be part of the talent show, fair time provides more opportunities to exhibit their work...
The other reason we formed a club, rather than just pursuing these same things on our own, is the grants you can get. There are some amazing places open to us as a club, that wouldn't be otherwise.
One of them is a Marine lab on Dauphin Island where we can participate and actually have a camp for the club...the general public wouldn't be allowed in.
Anyway, 4-H is a very broad club, with many opportunities, I just can't figure out how anything would be "taken" by a sign up day.
Maybe you could clarify.
??
Ren
"There is no way to
peace. Peace is the way."
~Quaker saying
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Have a Nice Day!
I'll tell you what else I had happen.
When my son was 6, he did a 4H thing through an after school program. He decided to put together a model car.
At his age, "snap together" cars were permissible for the club, so that is what he did, and then he painted it. His manual dexterity was not very good at the time (in fact he is dysgraphic and has a great deal of trouble with handwriting, even at age 15).
When the judging was done, we got the paper, and the judge was absolutely AWFUL. I was in tears. He made all kinds of nasty remarks about how it wasn't a "real" model, and it wasn't even well painted, etc. I think he even refused to give it a participating ribbon. His remarks were FULL of contempt and disgust.
I couldn't believe anyone could be such an asshole. I contacted the office and let them have it. He did get a participation ribbon I think but I have never forgotten that.
When we finally decided to try 4H again a few years ago, the sign ups were awful. We've tried twice but its always like that.
I think I'll call the office tomorrow and tell them what I think of it. I didn't say anything before because I just assumed they were all like that and I was "missing something". Apparently the only thing I'm "missing" is a GOOD 4H program.
Maybe I'll contact one somewhere else instead (since we want to make friends).
Ren, yours sounds so great. I wish it was like that here.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
When my son was 6, he did a 4H thing through an after school program. He decided to put together a model car.
At his age, "snap together" cars were permissible for the club, so that is what he did, and then he painted it. His manual dexterity was not very good at the time (in fact he is dysgraphic and has a great deal of trouble with handwriting, even at age 15).
When the judging was done, we got the paper, and the judge was absolutely AWFUL. I was in tears. He made all kinds of nasty remarks about how it wasn't a "real" model, and it wasn't even well painted, etc. I think he even refused to give it a participating ribbon. His remarks were FULL of contempt and disgust.
I couldn't believe anyone could be such an asshole. I contacted the office and let them have it. He did get a participation ribbon I think but I have never forgotten that.
When we finally decided to try 4H again a few years ago, the sign ups were awful. We've tried twice but its always like that.
I think I'll call the office tomorrow and tell them what I think of it. I didn't say anything before because I just assumed they were all like that and I was "missing something". Apparently the only thing I'm "missing" is a GOOD 4H program.
Maybe I'll contact one somewhere else instead (since we want to make friends).
Ren, yours sounds so great. I wish it was like that here.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pam sorooshian
On May 4, 2004, at 5:35 PM, Ren wrote:
sort of emphasis, true, but they offer whatever projects that they have
leaders willing to run. So my daughter's club is mostly horse project
kids - but they also have leathercraft, dehydrated foods, arts and
crafts, veal calves, leadership, rabbits, pigs, sewing, theater,
photography, and maybe some others I've forgotten. My daughter does
photography, leadership, theater, and horse. She'd like to do more, but
this is mostly school kids so meetings are in the evenings and there
are only so many evenings in the week. Community service isn't a
project, it is an all-club activity. Nearby clubs have other projects
like quilting and flower arranging and cake decorating and more. Kids
in one club can sign up for projects in other clubs, too, if there is
room for them.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> As a group, you focus on a group project for the year (or more thanI don't think most clubs function quite that way, Ren. Some do have a
> one) plus hang out and do fun things together. As a science club, we
> will focus on environmentalism and nature, but there are horse clubs,
> agriculture clubs, computer clubs, guide dog clubs, community service
> clubs etc...
sort of emphasis, true, but they offer whatever projects that they have
leaders willing to run. So my daughter's club is mostly horse project
kids - but they also have leathercraft, dehydrated foods, arts and
crafts, veal calves, leadership, rabbits, pigs, sewing, theater,
photography, and maybe some others I've forgotten. My daughter does
photography, leadership, theater, and horse. She'd like to do more, but
this is mostly school kids so meetings are in the evenings and there
are only so many evenings in the week. Community service isn't a
project, it is an all-club activity. Nearby clubs have other projects
like quilting and flower arranging and cake decorating and more. Kids
in one club can sign up for projects in other clubs, too, if there is
room for them.
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Cornerstone Community Farm
I've never heard of a bad 4-H group here in WI.
They are one of the best things going, as they more closely emulate real
life, unlike school. Parents to the young children, and all working
together.
Try a different club, or start a new one and get a good Constitution and
you'll attract kids & parents who like a decent club.
Keith
They are one of the best things going, as they more closely emulate real
life, unlike school. Parents to the young children, and all working
together.
Try a different club, or start a new one and get a good Constitution and
you'll attract kids & parents who like a decent club.
Keith
J. Stauffer
Hi Ren,
Isn't 4-H awesome?
I think the difference in your experience and the original poster's is the
difference between a project club (organized around science, horses, etc.)
and a community club (organized around a location with many interests and
projects involved in that one club).
In our area, we have both kinds of clubs. In the community clubs, someone,
usually a parent or older teen, volunteers to lead a project and others sign
up to participate. Our club had over 15 projects going this year, ranging
from dairy goats to ballistics.
Julie S.
Isn't 4-H awesome?
I think the difference in your experience and the original poster's is the
difference between a project club (organized around science, horses, etc.)
and a community club (organized around a location with many interests and
projects involved in that one club).
In our area, we have both kinds of clubs. In the community clubs, someone,
usually a parent or older teen, volunteers to lead a project and others sign
up to participate. Our club had over 15 projects going this year, ranging
from dairy goats to ballistics.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ren" <starsuncloud@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 7:35 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] 4-H question
>
> "Our experience with 4H has been awful. The signups are basically a
starting
> line with 'ready set go', and the kids run to what they want to sign up
for."
>
> I'm sitting here scratching my head and saying "huh?"
> I have no idea what exactly you tried to sign up for, or if 4-H has some
bizarre activity day where you live, but that isn't how you sign up for 4-H.
> You sign up by contacting your County Extension office and asking for the
4-H coordinatoor, and she/he will give you forms so you can sign up as a
family, or hook up with an existing club.
> We just formed our own club...you can do that too and they will guide you
through the process. We're "The Autodidacts" :) of course. Or more formerly
"The Autodidacts Science Club".
> As a group, you focus on a group project for the year (or more than one)
plus hang out and do fun things together. As a science club, we will focus
on environmentalism and nature, but there are horse clubs, agriculture
clubs, computer clubs, guide dog clubs, community service clubs etc...
> Even though our club is a science focused club, as individuals, my
children will pursue whatever they are interested in (that's why 4-H is so
unschool friendly for a club) and fill out a project book based on what they
want to do. Trevor is focusing on computers, since it's something he would
be doing anyway!
> In the past, we've incubated eggs, hatched butterflies, made
"encouragement houses" for children living with AIDS, etc...
> The 4-H office provides us with project books to record their activities
and curriculum based on their interests (from marine biology to horsemanship
and beyond) and other avenues for the kids to explore topics. Teen Court is
held here, and the teens actually act as lawyer, judge and jury..deciding
the fate of a teen peer that has been incarcerated. It's the real thing,
pretty cool experience for a teen thinking about a legal field. There's
county events in which they can create a talk about any topic or be part of
the talent show, fair time provides more opportunities to exhibit their
work...
> The other reason we formed a club, rather than just pursuing these same
things on our own, is the grants you can get. There are some amazing places
open to us as a club, that wouldn't be otherwise.
> One of them is a Marine lab on Dauphin Island where we can participate and
actually have a camp for the club...the general public wouldn't be allowed
in.
> Anyway, 4-H is a very broad club, with many opportunities, I just can't
figure out how anything would be "taken" by a sign up day.
> Maybe you could clarify.
> ??
>
> Ren
>
>
>
> "There is no way to
> peace. Peace is the way."
> ~Quaker saying
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
J. Stauffer
<<<At the end of the meeting you race to whatever club you want and hope you
get there in time.>>>>
And these clubs have a limited number of spaces???
How very odd. I think I would talk to my extention office and if that
didn't help fix the problem, I would go up a notch. Do you have a county
council?
\
Julie S.
get there in time.>>>>
And these clubs have a limited number of spaces???
How very odd. I think I would talk to my extention office and if that
didn't help fix the problem, I would go up a notch. Do you have a county
council?
\
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Have a Nice Day!" <litlrooh@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] 4-H question
> Ha. THats not how they do it here.
>
> You call the county extension office and they tell you when the "meeting"
is.
>
> You go to the meeting, and then all the "clubs" each have their own table
with sign up sheets.
>
> At the end of the meeting you race to whatever club you want and hope you
get there in time.
>
> If you get the club you want, THEN you do the project, etc. But you can't
pick a club without attending the "meeting" and racing to the table for the
first come first serve sign up.
>
> Kristen
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ren
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:35 PM
> Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] 4-H question
>
>
>
> "Our experience with 4H has been awful. The signups are basically a
starting
> line with 'ready set go', and the kids run to what they want to sign up
for."
>
> I'm sitting here scratching my head and saying "huh?"
> I have no idea what exactly you tried to sign up for, or if 4-H has some
bizarre activity day where you live, but that isn't how you sign up for 4-H.
> You sign up by contacting your County Extension office and asking for
the 4-H coordinatoor, and she/he will give you forms so you can sign up as a
family, or hook up with an existing club.
> We just formed our own club...you can do that too and they will guide
you through the process. We're "The Autodidacts" :) of course. Or more
formerly "The Autodidacts Science Club".
> As a group, you focus on a group project for the year (or more than one)
plus hang out and do fun things together. As a science club, we will focus
on environmentalism and nature, but there are horse clubs, agriculture
clubs, computer clubs, guide dog clubs, community service clubs etc...
> Even though our club is a science focused club, as individuals, my
children will pursue whatever they are interested in (that's why 4-H is so
unschool friendly for a club) and fill out a project book based on what they
want to do. Trevor is focusing on computers, since it's something he would
be doing anyway!
> In the past, we've incubated eggs, hatched butterflies, made
"encouragement houses" for children living with AIDS, etc...
> The 4-H office provides us with project books to record their activities
and curriculum based on their interests (from marine biology to horsemanship
and beyond) and other avenues for the kids to explore topics. Teen Court is
held here, and the teens actually act as lawyer, judge and jury..deciding
the fate of a teen peer that has been incarcerated. It's the real thing,
pretty cool experience for a teen thinking about a legal field. There's
county events in which they can create a talk about any topic or be part of
the talent show, fair time provides more opportunities to exhibit their
work...
> The other reason we formed a club, rather than just pursuing these same
things on our own, is the grants you can get. There are some amazing places
open to us as a club, that wouldn't be otherwise.
> One of them is a Marine lab on Dauphin Island where we can participate
and actually have a camp for the club...the general public wouldn't be
allowed in.
> Anyway, 4-H is a very broad club, with many opportunities, I just can't
figure out how anything would be "taken" by a sign up day.
> Maybe you could clarify.
> ??
>
> Ren
>
>
>
> "There is no way to
> peace. Peace is the way."
> ~Quaker saying
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
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Service.
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
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> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
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Cornerstone Community Farm
On Wednesday 05 May 2004 11:24 am, J. Stauffer wrote:
many as you can handle. Younger kids (10 and below) are limited in
choices.
Within each project the time commitment varies, as one can sew a simple
garment or a complex dress. Simple electricity project or complex,
dependent on age and interest. Showing animals often take training
them several times weekly, if not daily, thus horses, cows, or dogs can
take the most time commitment.
Keith
> <<<At the end of the meeting you race to whatever club you want andOur projects are signed up for on a paper, and you can sign up for as
> hope you get there in time.>>>>
many as you can handle. Younger kids (10 and below) are limited in
choices.
Within each project the time commitment varies, as one can sew a simple
garment or a complex dress. Simple electricity project or complex,
dependent on age and interest. Showing animals often take training
them several times weekly, if not daily, thus horses, cows, or dogs can
take the most time commitment.
Keith
Have a Nice Day!
I did contact the local office today. The coordinator allows the club leaders to limit the class sizes "for their own sanity".
We are signing up for a community club in another county called the "Friendship Club". Daughin County has "open enrollment" where Lancaster County does not.
I contacted the state, but they said I should contact the county. UGH.
Sigh,
Kristen
We are signing up for a community club in another county called the "Friendship Club". Daughin County has "open enrollment" where Lancaster County does not.
I contacted the state, but they said I should contact the county. UGH.
Sigh,
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: J. Stauffer
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] 4-H question
<<<At the end of the meeting you race to whatever club you want and hope you
get there in time.>>>>
And these clubs have a limited number of spaces???
How very odd. I think I would talk to my extention office and if that
didn't help fix the problem, I would go up a notch. Do you have a county
council?
\
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Have a Nice Day!" <litlrooh@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] 4-H question
> Ha. THats not how they do it here.
>
> You call the county extension office and they tell you when the "meeting"
is.
>
> You go to the meeting, and then all the "clubs" each have their own table
with sign up sheets.
>
> At the end of the meeting you race to whatever club you want and hope you
get there in time.
>
> If you get the club you want, THEN you do the project, etc. But you can't
pick a club without attending the "meeting" and racing to the table for the
first come first serve sign up.
>
> Kristen
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ren
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 8:35 PM
> Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] 4-H question
>
>
>
> "Our experience with 4H has been awful. The signups are basically a
starting
> line with 'ready set go', and the kids run to what they want to sign up
for."
>
> I'm sitting here scratching my head and saying "huh?"
> I have no idea what exactly you tried to sign up for, or if 4-H has some
bizarre activity day where you live, but that isn't how you sign up for 4-H.
> You sign up by contacting your County Extension office and asking for
the 4-H coordinatoor, and she/he will give you forms so you can sign up as a
family, or hook up with an existing club.
> We just formed our own club...you can do that too and they will guide
you through the process. We're "The Autodidacts" :) of course. Or more
formerly "The Autodidacts Science Club".
> As a group, you focus on a group project for the year (or more than one)
plus hang out and do fun things together. As a science club, we will focus
on environmentalism and nature, but there are horse clubs, agriculture
clubs, computer clubs, guide dog clubs, community service clubs etc...
> Even though our club is a science focused club, as individuals, my
children will pursue whatever they are interested in (that's why 4-H is so
unschool friendly for a club) and fill out a project book based on what they
want to do. Trevor is focusing on computers, since it's something he would
be doing anyway!
> In the past, we've incubated eggs, hatched butterflies, made
"encouragement houses" for children living with AIDS, etc...
> The 4-H office provides us with project books to record their activities
and curriculum based on their interests (from marine biology to horsemanship
and beyond) and other avenues for the kids to explore topics. Teen Court is
held here, and the teens actually act as lawyer, judge and jury..deciding
the fate of a teen peer that has been incarcerated. It's the real thing,
pretty cool experience for a teen thinking about a legal field. There's
county events in which they can create a talk about any topic or be part of
the talent show, fair time provides more opportunities to exhibit their
work...
> The other reason we formed a club, rather than just pursuing these same
things on our own, is the grants you can get. There are some amazing places
open to us as a club, that wouldn't be otherwise.
> One of them is a Marine lab on Dauphin Island where we can participate
and actually have a camp for the club...the general public wouldn't be
allowed in.
> Anyway, 4-H is a very broad club, with many opportunities, I just can't
figure out how anything would be "taken" by a sign up day.
> Maybe you could clarify.
> ??
>
> Ren
>
>
>
> "There is no way to
> peace. Peace is the way."
> ~Quaker saying
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
>
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Ren
"I contacted the state, but they said I should contact the county. UGH.'
You could start your own club, and it could just be your family. Low stress, no worry about getting volunteers or doing things you aren't that interested in....you just get to use all the good 4-H support and materials.:)
I didn't realize how community clubs operated, totally different than the clubs we've been involved with. It could be fun I suppose, having lots to choose from. I prefer smaller clubs in which the members all decide what projects/fun activities are going to happen.
Ren
"There is no way to
peace. Peace is the way."
~Quaker saying
You could start your own club, and it could just be your family. Low stress, no worry about getting volunteers or doing things you aren't that interested in....you just get to use all the good 4-H support and materials.:)
I didn't realize how community clubs operated, totally different than the clubs we've been involved with. It could be fun I suppose, having lots to choose from. I prefer smaller clubs in which the members all decide what projects/fun activities are going to happen.
Ren
"There is no way to
peace. Peace is the way."
~Quaker saying
Have a Nice Day!
I can't start my own club with only family because I have to have a minimum of 6 kids to do it and they do not support doing a project on our own, outside of 4H because no leadership support is given (I asked about that too :o(. )
Do your clubs have to have a minimum of a certain number of kids?
I'll lay bets its a PA thing. PA micromanages and over-regulates EVERYTHING.
Kristen
Do your clubs have to have a minimum of a certain number of kids?
I'll lay bets its a PA thing. PA micromanages and over-regulates EVERYTHING.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Ren
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:11 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] 4-H question
"I contacted the state, but they said I should contact the county. UGH.'
You could start your own club, and it could just be your family. Low stress, no worry about getting volunteers or doing things you aren't that interested in....you just get to use all the good 4-H support and materials.:)
I didn't realize how community clubs operated, totally different than the clubs we've been involved with. It could be fun I suppose, having lots to choose from. I prefer smaller clubs in which the members all decide what projects/fun activities are going to happen.
Ren
"There is no way to
peace. Peace is the way."
~Quaker saying
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
J. Stauffer
No the project on your own is within 4-H. Just join a club, go to the
meetings if you want to, figure out something y'all want to do a project on
and just do it. Then turn the paperwork in to the club leader at the end of
the year.
4-H is about leadership and autonomy, not fitting in to somebody else's
cookie cutter.
Julie S.
meetings if you want to, figure out something y'all want to do a project on
and just do it. Then turn the paperwork in to the club leader at the end of
the year.
4-H is about leadership and autonomy, not fitting in to somebody else's
cookie cutter.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Have a Nice Day!" <litlrooh@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] 4-H question
> I can't start my own club with only family because I have to have a
minimum of 6 kids to do it and they do not support doing a project on our
own, outside of 4H because no leadership support is given (I asked about
that too :o(. )
>
> Do your clubs have to have a minimum of a certain number of kids?
>
> I'll lay bets its a PA thing. PA micromanages and over-regulates
EVERYTHING.
>
> Kristen
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ren
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:11 PM
> Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] 4-H question
>
>
>
> "I contacted the state, but they said I should contact the county.
UGH.'
>
> You could start your own club, and it could just be your family. Low
stress, no worry about getting volunteers or doing things you aren't that
interested in....you just get to use all the good 4-H support and
materials.:)
> I didn't realize how community clubs operated, totally different than
the clubs we've been involved with. It could be fun I suppose, having lots
to choose from. I prefer smaller clubs in which the members all decide what
projects/fun activities are going to happen.
>
> Ren
>
>
>
> "There is no way to
> peace. Peace is the way."
> ~Quaker saying
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
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Have a Nice Day!
That is not what the coordinator told me. She said just doing a project on our own is not "within 4H" and they discourage it because they think meeting with others is an important aspect of 4H.
We can start a "club" (community or project club with a minimum of 6 kids), or we join a club (community club or project club).
As for joining an already existing club and doing whatever project we want, I haven't looked into that yet but given the experience we've had already, I don't want to assume this county does things the way they are supposed to either.
Like I said, even the state office said they had not heard of sign ups the way I described them.
Kristen
We can start a "club" (community or project club with a minimum of 6 kids), or we join a club (community club or project club).
As for joining an already existing club and doing whatever project we want, I haven't looked into that yet but given the experience we've had already, I don't want to assume this county does things the way they are supposed to either.
Like I said, even the state office said they had not heard of sign ups the way I described them.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: J. Stauffer
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] 4-H question
No the project on your own is within 4-H. Just join a club, go to the
meetings if you want to, figure out something y'all want to do a project on
and just do it. Then turn the paperwork in to the club leader at the end of
the year.
4-H is about leadership and autonomy, not fitting in to somebody else's
cookie cutter.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Have a Nice Day!" <litlrooh@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] 4-H question
> I can't start my own club with only family because I have to have a
minimum of 6 kids to do it and they do not support doing a project on our
own, outside of 4H because no leadership support is given (I asked about
that too :o(. )
>
> Do your clubs have to have a minimum of a certain number of kids?
>
> I'll lay bets its a PA thing. PA micromanages and over-regulates
EVERYTHING.
>
> Kristen
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ren
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:11 PM
> Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] 4-H question
>
>
>
> "I contacted the state, but they said I should contact the county.
UGH.'
>
> You could start your own club, and it could just be your family. Low
stress, no worry about getting volunteers or doing things you aren't that
interested in....you just get to use all the good 4-H support and
materials.:)
> I didn't realize how community clubs operated, totally different than
the clubs we've been involved with. It could be fun I suppose, having lots
to choose from. I prefer smaller clubs in which the members all decide what
projects/fun activities are going to happen.
>
> Ren
>
>
>
> "There is no way to
> peace. Peace is the way."
> ~Quaker saying
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
>
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> [email protected]
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[email protected]
In a message dated 5/4/2004 11:02:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:
to worry about over-crowding, (or evening meetings), but we're in Ohio, and
probably have different rules and regs. What state are you in? Our regs have 30
different projects for the kids to chose from (and we have weeks to decide),
and from what I know (which isn't a whole lot), we dont' have a limit. Have you
looked up your state's regs online?
Peace,
Sang
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pamsoroosh@... writes:
> I don't think most clubs function quite that way, Ren. Some do have aYes, it does sound kind of odd... ours is a homeschool 4H, so we don't have
> sort of emphasis, true, but they offer whatever projects that they have
> leaders willing to run. So my daughter's club is mostly horse project
> kids - but they also have leathercraft, dehydrated foods, arts and
> crafts, veal calves, leadership, rabbits, pigs, sewing, theater,
> photography, and maybe some others I've forgotten. My daughter does
> photography, leadership, theater, and horse.
to worry about over-crowding, (or evening meetings), but we're in Ohio, and
probably have different rules and regs. What state are you in? Our regs have 30
different projects for the kids to chose from (and we have weeks to decide),
and from what I know (which isn't a whole lot), we dont' have a limit. Have you
looked up your state's regs online?
Peace,
Sang
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Sorry-I meant to clarify that my answer and questions were to Ren-forgot.
Appologies.
Sang
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Appologies.
Sang
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren
"Do your clubs have to have a minimum of a certain number of kids?'
What Julie said.
I failed to mention that you officially join an existing club, but you are NOT required to attend meetings and you can most certainly do any project you want! You have a lame agent up there. You join as a family under a club, but you can then do your own thing.
I just pulled my 4-H folder out, there is a project book called "Do your own thing". Hmm...sounds like you can do whatever you want to me!!
There are SO many categories in 4-H that I imagine MOST of their interests will fall under something, if not, you just use the "do your own thing" one.
I have some really cool booklets on bread baking, marine science, International foods, etc... There is a technology/electronic category that small engine repair and computers fall under, there's TONS! So I don't know what the heck this person is talking about.
Yeah, the club chooses a club project, but each family chooses their own individual project(s).
Are you close to another county? Maybe you could look into a different county for joining a club. The whole reason they make it possible to join a club and not be at meetings and such, is for rural kids.
Are you talking to the actual extension agency?
Ren
"There is no way to
peace. Peace is the way."
~Quaker saying
What Julie said.
I failed to mention that you officially join an existing club, but you are NOT required to attend meetings and you can most certainly do any project you want! You have a lame agent up there. You join as a family under a club, but you can then do your own thing.
I just pulled my 4-H folder out, there is a project book called "Do your own thing". Hmm...sounds like you can do whatever you want to me!!
There are SO many categories in 4-H that I imagine MOST of their interests will fall under something, if not, you just use the "do your own thing" one.
I have some really cool booklets on bread baking, marine science, International foods, etc... There is a technology/electronic category that small engine repair and computers fall under, there's TONS! So I don't know what the heck this person is talking about.
Yeah, the club chooses a club project, but each family chooses their own individual project(s).
Are you close to another county? Maybe you could look into a different county for joining a club. The whole reason they make it possible to join a club and not be at meetings and such, is for rural kids.
Are you talking to the actual extension agency?
Ren
"There is no way to
peace. Peace is the way."
~Quaker saying
Have a Nice Day!
Hi Ren,
Yes, I talked to the actual extension agency. I think part of the problem is that we might be misunderstanding each other (me and the coordinator).
And yet, she is the same coordinator who has been there since I first tried to get involved. I can't imagine why she can't explain 4H well enough for me to understand. I don't have this much trouble understanding anything else LOL!
I also think that she is running things differently than other areas. For example, she allows the leaders to set space limits on project groups.
When I first asked about 4H, nobody ever mentioned to me that there was a difference between community clubs and project clubs, something I consider rather important (duh). They just asked me if I wanted a community club. I had no idea there were different kinds or what the differences were.
She made it sound like a family can't just do their own project, then made it sound like I was talking about doing something outside of 4H, and she never even mentioned what our options were once we were part of a club. This leads me to believe that they don't encourage that option because she would have mentioned it since I specifically asked about doing our own project. (She wouldn't have assumed that I meant "outside of 4H".)
The only options she gave me were to join the existing projects within the club, or start my own *club*.
I specifically pointed out to her that the National website says you can enroll any time of year. But she apparently decided that they would do a limited enrollment, and then only once a year! There is time from the March meeting until May 1st to enroll, but like I said, many of the projects have limited space, so if you don't get what you want at the meeting, your poop out of luck.
It really irked me that when I called I asked if we could still enroll and she said "no, enrollment was closed May 1st" and told me we would have to wait until NEXT MARCH! (Especially because its only May 5!).
The state office wasn't much help either, but I think I am going to contact them again. I want to get it from them how its "supposed" to be.
I've been trying to look up the information on the web, but I can't find the information all in one place online. She is sending me written info though. We'll see what that says.
Needless to say I'm rather disgusted, and I'm REALLY glad I asked about it here.
Sorry if I'm rambling. I just can't get over how ridiculous it all seems! But I'll grant, I could be missing something here. Maybe I'm just not understanding!
Kristen
Yes, I talked to the actual extension agency. I think part of the problem is that we might be misunderstanding each other (me and the coordinator).
And yet, she is the same coordinator who has been there since I first tried to get involved. I can't imagine why she can't explain 4H well enough for me to understand. I don't have this much trouble understanding anything else LOL!
I also think that she is running things differently than other areas. For example, she allows the leaders to set space limits on project groups.
When I first asked about 4H, nobody ever mentioned to me that there was a difference between community clubs and project clubs, something I consider rather important (duh). They just asked me if I wanted a community club. I had no idea there were different kinds or what the differences were.
She made it sound like a family can't just do their own project, then made it sound like I was talking about doing something outside of 4H, and she never even mentioned what our options were once we were part of a club. This leads me to believe that they don't encourage that option because she would have mentioned it since I specifically asked about doing our own project. (She wouldn't have assumed that I meant "outside of 4H".)
The only options she gave me were to join the existing projects within the club, or start my own *club*.
I specifically pointed out to her that the National website says you can enroll any time of year. But she apparently decided that they would do a limited enrollment, and then only once a year! There is time from the March meeting until May 1st to enroll, but like I said, many of the projects have limited space, so if you don't get what you want at the meeting, your poop out of luck.
It really irked me that when I called I asked if we could still enroll and she said "no, enrollment was closed May 1st" and told me we would have to wait until NEXT MARCH! (Especially because its only May 5!).
The state office wasn't much help either, but I think I am going to contact them again. I want to get it from them how its "supposed" to be.
I've been trying to look up the information on the web, but I can't find the information all in one place online. She is sending me written info though. We'll see what that says.
Needless to say I'm rather disgusted, and I'm REALLY glad I asked about it here.
Sorry if I'm rambling. I just can't get over how ridiculous it all seems! But I'll grant, I could be missing something here. Maybe I'm just not understanding!
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Ren
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:24 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] 4-H question
"Do your clubs have to have a minimum of a certain number of kids?'
What Julie said.
I failed to mention that you officially join an existing club, but you are NOT required to attend meetings and you can most certainly do any project you want! You have a lame agent up there. You join as a family under a club, but you can then do your own thing.
I just pulled my 4-H folder out, there is a project book called "Do your own thing". Hmm...sounds like you can do whatever you want to me!!
There are SO many categories in 4-H that I imagine MOST of their interests will fall under something, if not, you just use the "do your own thing" one.
I have some really cool booklets on bread baking, marine science, International foods, etc... There is a technology/electronic category that small engine repair and computers fall under, there's TONS! So I don't know what the heck this person is talking about.
Yeah, the club chooses a club project, but each family chooses their own individual project(s).
Are you close to another county? Maybe you could look into a different county for joining a club. The whole reason they make it possible to join a club and not be at meetings and such, is for rural kids.
Are you talking to the actual extension agency?
Ren
"There is no way to
peace. Peace is the way."
~Quaker saying
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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In a message dated 5/5/04 1:35:22 PM, jnjstau@... writes:
<< 4-H is about leadership and autonomy, not fitting in to somebody else's
cookie cutter. >>
At the competition and fair-entry level it's pretty cookie-cutter, but that
might be more the agricultural end. I was in a plants group (long ago) and we
did crops judging. It's not a creative area. It's a do it right, the way
it's done kind of farming reality. And we did flower arranging. Our leader had
a flower shop and a green thumb and we learned a lot from her, and that's a
creative area for sure, but crops judging and entering animals for judging have
unbending rules and traditions.
4-H grew out of (and is still attached to) the county extension programs of
the agricultural colleges, and county agents are people with degrees in
agricultural and home economics. Some are more creative than others. If the club
has expanded, it still has roots.
Sandra
<< 4-H is about leadership and autonomy, not fitting in to somebody else's
cookie cutter. >>
At the competition and fair-entry level it's pretty cookie-cutter, but that
might be more the agricultural end. I was in a plants group (long ago) and we
did crops judging. It's not a creative area. It's a do it right, the way
it's done kind of farming reality. And we did flower arranging. Our leader had
a flower shop and a green thumb and we learned a lot from her, and that's a
creative area for sure, but crops judging and entering animals for judging have
unbending rules and traditions.
4-H grew out of (and is still attached to) the county extension programs of
the agricultural colleges, and county agents are people with degrees in
agricultural and home economics. Some are more creative than others. If the club
has expanded, it still has roots.
Sandra
Cornerstone Community Farm
On Thursday 06 May 2004 12:33 am, Have a Nice Day! wrote:
For instance, a calf must be of a certain age and must be weighed at
certain dates.
Most county fairs have deadlines or a minimum number of meetings that
must be attended.
You can also enter a limited number of projects "open class" in the
fair, but for inexperience children, they are competing against older
adults, for instance in photography. Now we all know a child can
really develop an interest in photography and excel in it, but for a
beginner, it can be discouraging to enter the fair open class.
Keith
> It really irked me that when I called I asked if we could stillCertain projects have deadline, some well before May 1st.
> enroll and she said "no, enrollment was closed May 1st" and told me
> we would have to wait until NEXT MARCH! (Especially because its only
> May 5!).
For instance, a calf must be of a certain age and must be weighed at
certain dates.
Most county fairs have deadlines or a minimum number of meetings that
must be attended.
You can also enter a limited number of projects "open class" in the
fair, but for inexperience children, they are competing against older
adults, for instance in photography. Now we all know a child can
really develop an interest in photography and excel in it, but for a
beginner, it can be discouraging to enter the fair open class.
Keith
J. Stauffer
<<< At the competition and fair-entry level it's pretty cookie-cutter, but
that
must be done.
But the autonomy comes in from not HAVING to do agriculture. You can do
martial arts or quilting or ballistics or public speaking or citizenship or
whatever you want.
And the fact that your project doesn't have to look like everyone else's.
Two people might be doing quilting but one might make several kinds of
quilts and another might design blocks, visit an old fashioned quilting bee,
research different types of batting, etc..
Julie S.
that
> might be more the agricultural end.>>>>Oh, I agree that the competitions have very strict rules and ways things
must be done.
But the autonomy comes in from not HAVING to do agriculture. You can do
martial arts or quilting or ballistics or public speaking or citizenship or
whatever you want.
And the fact that your project doesn't have to look like everyone else's.
Two people might be doing quilting but one might make several kinds of
quilts and another might design blocks, visit an old fashioned quilting bee,
research different types of batting, etc..
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: <SandraDodd@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] 4-H question
>
> In a message dated 5/5/04 1:35:22 PM, jnjstau@... writes:
>
> << 4-H is about leadership and autonomy, not fitting in to somebody else's
>
> cookie cutter. >>
>
> At the competition and fair-entry level it's pretty cookie-cutter, but
that
> might be more the agricultural end. I was in a plants group (long ago)
and we
> did crops judging. It's not a creative area. It's a do it right, the way
> it's done kind of farming reality. And we did flower arranging. Our
leader had
> a flower shop and a green thumb and we learned a lot from her, and that's
a
> creative area for sure, but crops judging and entering animals for judging
have
> unbending rules and traditions.
>
> 4-H grew out of (and is still attached to) the county extension programs
of
> the agricultural colleges, and county agents are people with degrees in
> agricultural and home economics. Some are more creative than others. If
the club
> has expanded, it still has roots.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
Have a Nice Day!
But the autonomy comes in from not HAVING to do agriculture. You can do
martial arts or quilting or ballistics or public speaking or citizenship or
whatever you want.
******************************
Exactly. And it seems that because our county is heavily agricultural, the entire program is run based on all these rules and deadlines, even for projects that AREN'T agricultural in nature.
I called the office again today and then I emailed the state coordinator. I'll send a copy of what I wrote.
The conversation I had with the county agent today was even more disheartening than yesterday.
On a positive note, the woman who runs the neighboring county group is really excited to have us join them, and her email made it obvious she LOVES working with her club.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
martial arts or quilting or ballistics or public speaking or citizenship or
whatever you want.
******************************
Exactly. And it seems that because our county is heavily agricultural, the entire program is run based on all these rules and deadlines, even for projects that AREN'T agricultural in nature.
I called the office again today and then I emailed the state coordinator. I'll send a copy of what I wrote.
The conversation I had with the county agent today was even more disheartening than yesterday.
On a positive note, the woman who runs the neighboring county group is really excited to have us join them, and her email made it obvious she LOVES working with her club.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren
"It's not a creative area. It's a do it right, the way
it's done kind of farming reality. "
All of the competition parts are like that. Luckily, you can ignore the competitive parts and just use the parts you like.:)
I do like County Events because they judge the speeches based on a criteria, they don't compare the kids to each other. Same with the fair. It's still a competition, with rules and parameters, like just about any competition.
We personally won't get involved in that unless the kids really want to, because I don't like turning interest into ribbons and rewards.
Ren
"There is no way to
peace. Peace is the way."
~Quaker saying
it's done kind of farming reality. "
All of the competition parts are like that. Luckily, you can ignore the competitive parts and just use the parts you like.:)
I do like County Events because they judge the speeches based on a criteria, they don't compare the kids to each other. Same with the fair. It's still a competition, with rules and parameters, like just about any competition.
We personally won't get involved in that unless the kids really want to, because I don't like turning interest into ribbons and rewards.
Ren
"There is no way to
peace. Peace is the way."
~Quaker saying
J. Stauffer
<<<< We personally won't get involved in that unless the kids really want
to, because I don't like turning interest into ribbons and rewards. >>>>
I know exactly what you mean. Adriane was able to turn her interest into
money though which she really liked. She just sold a couple of goats for
$100 a piece and her bunnies earned her $900 at auction. (I know, bunnies,
go figure). Anyway, she is seriously saving her money toward a pickup.
Julie S.
to, because I don't like turning interest into ribbons and rewards. >>>>
I know exactly what you mean. Adriane was able to turn her interest into
money though which she really liked. She just sold a couple of goats for
$100 a piece and her bunnies earned her $900 at auction. (I know, bunnies,
go figure). Anyway, she is seriously saving her money toward a pickup.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ren" <starsuncloud@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 1:52 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] 4-H question
>
> "It's not a creative area. It's a do it right, the way
> it's done kind of farming reality. "
>
> All of the competition parts are like that. Luckily, you can ignore the
competitive parts and just use the parts you like.:)
> I do like County Events because they judge the speeches based on a
criteria, they don't compare the kids to each other. Same with the fair.
It's still a competition, with rules and parameters, like just about any
competition.
> We personally won't get involved in that unless the kids really want to,
because I don't like turning interest into ribbons and rewards.
>
> Ren
>
>
> "There is no way to
> peace. Peace is the way."
> ~Quaker saying
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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