From Another List-Can I Say Something
[email protected]
I know that spanking and discipline have been discussed on the this list many
times before but I read this today from another homeschooling list I am on
and I feel I should respond but I don't know how. I was appalled. Should I
just leave it be? I have appreciated the many insights on this list and I just
wonder if it's best not to respond or to say something and hope that someone
reading may choose an alternate, and IMO, better path. Here is the quote:
All children can learn to sit still, but it will require that you assert
your will over theirs. It will often require some discipline, but it
can easily be done.
I recently read an article, by a mother in Home School Digest, who
trained her babies to sit still in her lap. She would start with five
minutes, and as they improved, she would increase the time until they
were able to sit quietly in her lap for hours. She would lightly spank
her child, and teach them to wait until she said they could get down.
Her children learned early to trust and obey their parents.
Unfortunately, this effort seems to be missing in many families today.
Pamela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
times before but I read this today from another homeschooling list I am on
and I feel I should respond but I don't know how. I was appalled. Should I
just leave it be? I have appreciated the many insights on this list and I just
wonder if it's best not to respond or to say something and hope that someone
reading may choose an alternate, and IMO, better path. Here is the quote:
All children can learn to sit still, but it will require that you assert
your will over theirs. It will often require some discipline, but it
can easily be done.
I recently read an article, by a mother in Home School Digest, who
trained her babies to sit still in her lap. She would start with five
minutes, and as they improved, she would increase the time until they
were able to sit quietly in her lap for hours. She would lightly spank
her child, and teach them to wait until she said they could get down.
Her children learned early to trust and obey their parents.
Unfortunately, this effort seems to be missing in many families today.
Pamela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tara
Wow! What kind of list is this on? If others on the list were
agreeing with this, I would put in my two cents and run away! - Tara
agreeing with this, I would put in my two cents and run away! - Tara
--- In [email protected], b229d655@c... wrote:
> I know that spanking and discipline have been discussed on the
this list many
> times before but I read this today from another homeschooling list
I am on
> and I feel I should respond but I don't know how. I was
appalled. Should I
> just leave it be? I have appreciated the many insights on this
list and I just
> wonder if it's best not to respond or to say something and hope
that someone
> reading may choose an alternate, and IMO, better path. Here is
the quote:
>
> All children can learn to sit still, but it will require that you
assert
> your will over theirs. It will often require some discipline, but
it
> can easily be done.
>
> I recently read an article, by a mother in Home School Digest, who
> trained her babies to sit still in her lap. She would start with
five
> minutes, and as they improved, she would increase the time until
they
> were able to sit quietly in her lap for hours. She would lightly
spank
> her child, and teach them to wait until she said they could get
down.
> Her children learned early to trust and obey their parents.
> Unfortunately, this effort seems to be missing in many families
today.
>
>
> Pamela
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/3/04 11:41:04 AM, b229d655@... writes:
<< Her children learned early to trust and obey their parents. >>
Interesting use of "trust," but "trust and obey" is a fundamentalist idiom
(there's a song by that name) and the God they're trusting is the God of smiting
and vengeance and eternal fiery pits.
Home School Digest is the darkest, dreariest, scariest homeschooling thing
I've ever seen. The covers are in black and white and have scary dark images.
A man's hand on a plow handle. An upward shot of a 19th century school's bell
tower with storm clouds behind it... stuff like that.
Probably not the covers, but some of the articles, are here:
http://www.homeschooldigest.com/
(Ah... it seems the covers might be in color now; they show one in color, and
one scary one in black and white, but TYPICALLY it's about dads, because
they're the heads of their households, they're the principles of their
homeschools, they are the representative of God in the home and so must be trusted and
obeyed.)
There are links to Christian anti-spanking sites you might want to pass on
there. You could find some with Google, but there's at least one here:
http://sandradodd.com/spanking
That link itself probably wouldn't go over well if it's a Christian list.
Man of them think unschooling is ungodly, and that secular homeschoolers are
HUMANISTS (which they can't tell from satanists). If it's a general list, maybe
you could share that.
Heck of a scary magazine.
There's another newer, brighter but still scary one: The Old Schoolhouse.
Sandra
<< Her children learned early to trust and obey their parents. >>
Interesting use of "trust," but "trust and obey" is a fundamentalist idiom
(there's a song by that name) and the God they're trusting is the God of smiting
and vengeance and eternal fiery pits.
Home School Digest is the darkest, dreariest, scariest homeschooling thing
I've ever seen. The covers are in black and white and have scary dark images.
A man's hand on a plow handle. An upward shot of a 19th century school's bell
tower with storm clouds behind it... stuff like that.
Probably not the covers, but some of the articles, are here:
http://www.homeschooldigest.com/
(Ah... it seems the covers might be in color now; they show one in color, and
one scary one in black and white, but TYPICALLY it's about dads, because
they're the heads of their households, they're the principles of their
homeschools, they are the representative of God in the home and so must be trusted and
obeyed.)
There are links to Christian anti-spanking sites you might want to pass on
there. You could find some with Google, but there's at least one here:
http://sandradodd.com/spanking
That link itself probably wouldn't go over well if it's a Christian list.
Man of them think unschooling is ungodly, and that secular homeschoolers are
HUMANISTS (which they can't tell from satanists). If it's a general list, maybe
you could share that.
Heck of a scary magazine.
There's another newer, brighter but still scary one: The Old Schoolhouse.
Sandra
[email protected]
http://www.aolff.org/
Another Christian anti-spanking site, which I will add to my page later.
(Thanks to Jenny who sent it.)
Sandra
Another Christian anti-spanking site, which I will add to my page later.
(Thanks to Jenny who sent it.)
Sandra
Cally Brown
A few years ago I 'left' a local new Zealand list after flaming - we're
talking serious flame thrower useage here - after an even more detailed
description of how to train your baby to sit on a squre of material,
details of how hard to smack them, how many times, etc etc. I wanted to
be on the list because at the time it was the place to find out what was
happening in NZ homeschooling. The owner of the moderated list stopped
my posts after a couple of third degree burn posts, but also stopped
hers despite the fact that he is a defender of smacking - in theory.
He e-mailed me privately and was very torn - in principle he was on her
side, but his heart cried NO. (From what I have seen of him, he's a
very much loved and unfeared father to his kids, so I'm pretty sure he
doesn't put his money where his mouth is in respect to smacking.)
I'm afraid I could not sit back and say nothing to this abusing mother
of babies - if I'd known her when she had had babies I would have set
the welfare authorities on her, but her children were all older by then,
and sufficiently destroyed to no longer need beating. I flamed her, and
badly. What she had done, and was promoting to others was, I believe,
nothing short of evil. I could not let it pass unquestioned. I left
the list, and I got a lot of emails in support.
I knew that this woman would never change, but my hope is that even just
one other person was shocked enough by what I said to rethink their
position. I certainly felt I had to try.
Cally
b229d655@... wrote:
talking serious flame thrower useage here - after an even more detailed
description of how to train your baby to sit on a squre of material,
details of how hard to smack them, how many times, etc etc. I wanted to
be on the list because at the time it was the place to find out what was
happening in NZ homeschooling. The owner of the moderated list stopped
my posts after a couple of third degree burn posts, but also stopped
hers despite the fact that he is a defender of smacking - in theory.
He e-mailed me privately and was very torn - in principle he was on her
side, but his heart cried NO. (From what I have seen of him, he's a
very much loved and unfeared father to his kids, so I'm pretty sure he
doesn't put his money where his mouth is in respect to smacking.)
I'm afraid I could not sit back and say nothing to this abusing mother
of babies - if I'd known her when she had had babies I would have set
the welfare authorities on her, but her children were all older by then,
and sufficiently destroyed to no longer need beating. I flamed her, and
badly. What she had done, and was promoting to others was, I believe,
nothing short of evil. I could not let it pass unquestioned. I left
the list, and I got a lot of emails in support.
I knew that this woman would never change, but my hope is that even just
one other person was shocked enough by what I said to rethink their
position. I certainly felt I had to try.
Cally
b229d655@... wrote:
>I know that spanking and discipline have been discussed on the this list many
>times before but I read this today from another homeschooling list I am on
>and I feel I should respond but I don't know how. I was appalled. Should I
>just leave it be? I have appreciated the many insights on this list and I just
>wonder if it's best not to respond or to say something and hope that someone
>reading may choose an alternate, and IMO, better path. Here is the quote:
>
>All children can learn to sit still, but it will require that you assert
>your will over theirs. It will often require some discipline, but it
>can easily be done.
>
>I recently read an article, by a mother in Home School Digest, who
>trained her babies to sit still in her lap. She would start with five
>minutes, and as they improved, she would increase the time until they
>were able to sit quietly in her lap for hours. She would lightly spank
>her child, and teach them to wait until she said they could get down.
>Her children learned early to trust and obey their parents.
>Unfortunately, this effort seems to be missing in many families today.
>
>
>Pamela
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
>Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/3/2004 1:41:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, b229d655@...
writes:
either!)! Trust and obey, my hiney-more like FEAR and obey! Been there, done
that-I don't want MY kids fearing me-how can you trust someone you fear?! If I sat
and thought about it, I probably wouldn't bring myself to say something, but
if I'm irritated enough to write something right away, she sure would get an
"earful"! :~)
Peace,
Sang
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> All children can learn to sit still, but it will require that you assertSheesh. Sounds like training a dog (and not my way of training an animal,
> your will over theirs. It will often require some discipline, but it
> can easily be done.
>
> I recently read an article, by a mother in Home School Digest, who
> trained her babies to sit still in her lap. She would start with five
> minutes, and as they improved, she would increase the time until they
> were able to sit quietly in her lap for hours. She would lightly spank
> her child, and teach them to wait until she said they could get down.
> Her children learned early to trust and obey their parents.
>
either!)! Trust and obey, my hiney-more like FEAR and obey! Been there, done
that-I don't want MY kids fearing me-how can you trust someone you fear?! If I sat
and thought about it, I probably wouldn't bring myself to say something, but
if I'm irritated enough to write something right away, she sure would get an
"earful"! :~)
Peace,
Sang
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deb Lewis
***Should I just leave it be? ***
If you don't feel like you want to express your opinion you could provide
links to anti spanking sites and to the no-spanking list, and the people
who'd like to look could do so.
If you do want to speak out you may not change that mothers mind, but you
might make someone else think about it. You might make one mom question
what she thinks she knows about living with kids and that might make a
difference.
Whatever you decide, flare ups on lists eventually die down and move on
to something else. It'll be fine in a couple days (unless they kick you
off. <g>) You might forever have the rabid anti spanking reputation
there but, you know, in some circles that's an admirable quality. <g>
Here's Pams no spanking list.
[email protected]
And this is probably at Sandra's site too, but here's a page:
www.neverhitachild.org/noframes.html
Deb L
If you don't feel like you want to express your opinion you could provide
links to anti spanking sites and to the no-spanking list, and the people
who'd like to look could do so.
If you do want to speak out you may not change that mothers mind, but you
might make someone else think about it. You might make one mom question
what she thinks she knows about living with kids and that might make a
difference.
Whatever you decide, flare ups on lists eventually die down and move on
to something else. It'll be fine in a couple days (unless they kick you
off. <g>) You might forever have the rabid anti spanking reputation
there but, you know, in some circles that's an admirable quality. <g>
Here's Pams no spanking list.
[email protected]
And this is probably at Sandra's site too, but here's a page:
www.neverhitachild.org/noframes.html
Deb L
mamaaj2000
--- In [email protected], b229d655@c... wrote:
respond strongly but calmly, you might influence some people or at
least get them to think about it. If you "yell", people who agree
with you may cheer you on, but you probably won't make any headway
with those who disagree.
I've been working on taking the long view and just trying to open
people's eyes to other ways of thinking. So when a friend talked
about how so-and-so should let her baby cry, I said that I don't let
babies cry if I can help. There are times when I can't help them and
that's enough crying time--she thinks babies "need to cry." She also
spanks and tends to be very strict and I've just been sharing my
different ways. And I was so suprised when she told me she'd been
being more patient with her son because of things I've said!
I spend so much time reading, writing and thinking about parenting. I
want to believe it's not just for the sake of my kids, but also so
that I can help other people. If you really want to help someone, you
have to be aware of where they are and what they are open to hearing.
Hmmm, where have I heard that before???
--aj
> I know that spanking and discipline have been discussed on the thislist many
> times before but I read this today from another homeschooling listI am on
> and I feel I should respond but I don't know how. I wasappalled. Should I
> just leave it be? I have appreciated the many insights on thislist and I just
> wonder if it's best not to respond or to say something and hopethat someone
> reading may choose an alternate, and IMO, better path.You probably aren't going to get her to change by responding. If you
respond strongly but calmly, you might influence some people or at
least get them to think about it. If you "yell", people who agree
with you may cheer you on, but you probably won't make any headway
with those who disagree.
I've been working on taking the long view and just trying to open
people's eyes to other ways of thinking. So when a friend talked
about how so-and-so should let her baby cry, I said that I don't let
babies cry if I can help. There are times when I can't help them and
that's enough crying time--she thinks babies "need to cry." She also
spanks and tends to be very strict and I've just been sharing my
different ways. And I was so suprised when she told me she'd been
being more patient with her son because of things I've said!
I spend so much time reading, writing and thinking about parenting. I
want to believe it's not just for the sake of my kids, but also so
that I can help other people. If you really want to help someone, you
have to be aware of where they are and what they are open to hearing.
Hmmm, where have I heard that before???
--aj
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/3/04 2:12:49 PM, mamaaj2000@... writes:
<< You probably aren't going to get her to change by responding. If you
respond strongly but calmly, you might influence some people or at
least get them to think about it. If you "yell", people who agree
with you may cheer you on, but you probably won't make any headway
with those who disagree. >>
I don't think you'll get her to admit to changing. If she changes, she'll go
elsewhere and not say "I changed." But if you say strong, real things, she
will never again be able to spank without a little twinge of doubt, or guilt,
or the feeling that people are looking over her shoulder, and not everyone
would defend her.
I think that's a worthy thing to do to people who are really, truly
inflicting violence and pain on little children in the name of God.
How many more spankings do you want to take partial credit for if you just
"be aware of where they are"? I think saying "Already too many" is better than
"Maybe in a few years you should slow down some."
Sandra
<< You probably aren't going to get her to change by responding. If you
respond strongly but calmly, you might influence some people or at
least get them to think about it. If you "yell", people who agree
with you may cheer you on, but you probably won't make any headway
with those who disagree. >>
I don't think you'll get her to admit to changing. If she changes, she'll go
elsewhere and not say "I changed." But if you say strong, real things, she
will never again be able to spank without a little twinge of doubt, or guilt,
or the feeling that people are looking over her shoulder, and not everyone
would defend her.
I think that's a worthy thing to do to people who are really, truly
inflicting violence and pain on little children in the name of God.
How many more spankings do you want to take partial credit for if you just
"be aware of where they are"? I think saying "Already too many" is better than
"Maybe in a few years you should slow down some."
Sandra
mamaaj2000
Part of it is the situation--I know she's not spanking her son any
more, but she will have a daughter soon. It's not the same as
watching her spank her son while I take the long view.
Part of it, though, is that I'm pretty darn sure that she wouldn't
stop spanking or even think much about it if I stated my views on the
subject. If she's not listening and tunes me out, I'm not doing
anything but listening to myself talk. She started off thinking that
I was very lenient and permissive and now she's seeing my parenting
in a better light and being influenced by me. I will continue
plugging away because I think in this situation, that's what might
get her to not spank her daughter in a couple years.
--aj
more, but she will have a daughter soon. It's not the same as
watching her spank her son while I take the long view.
Part of it, though, is that I'm pretty darn sure that she wouldn't
stop spanking or even think much about it if I stated my views on the
subject. If she's not listening and tunes me out, I'm not doing
anything but listening to myself talk. She started off thinking that
I was very lenient and permissive and now she's seeing my parenting
in a better light and being influenced by me. I will continue
plugging away because I think in this situation, that's what might
get her to not spank her daughter in a couple years.
--aj
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
> How many more spankings do you want to take partial credit for if
you just
> "be aware of where they are"? I think saying "Already too many" is
better than
> "Maybe in a few years you should slow down some."
>
> Sandra
Pam Hartley
> >I know that spanking and discipline have been discussed onthe this list many
> >times before but I read this today from anotherhomeschooling list I am on
> >and I feel I should respond but I don't know how.If you can respond calmly and give some examples from your
family and experiences, it's a very good idea to respond, in my
opinion. You will probably not change the attitude or actions of
the poster, but the surprising fact that children can be treated
with kindness and respect and "turn out" just fine will benefit
many of the other members of the list, including no doubt many
lurkers.
Best,
Pam Hartley
diana
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
I think that's a worthy thing to do to people who are really, truly
inflicting violence and pain on little children in the name of God.
How many more spankings do you want to take partial credit for if you
just "be aware of where they are"? I think saying "Already too many"
is better than "Maybe in a few years you should slow down some."
Sandra
___________________________________________
I had to make that decision recently ... one mom at a hs activity was
BRAGGING about being able to threaten her 18mo old BABY into
compliance after the sound spanking she gave him a few weeks
before. "He's very intelligent, I only had to spank him once, he now
knows I mean it" I couldn't help imagining the same conversation
happening in a garage between men, about my daughter, "she's an
intelligent one...only had to smack her once, now she listens to
me."
I HAD to say something, express my own remorse over having raised my
hand to a child in anger, let her know that options are available
between *sweetie-pie* voices and a smack to the bottom. She used
the "but he'll just run into the street if I don't" arguement, so I
used the example given here about a child choosing to take their risk
with the scary street over the crazed spank-o-matic mommy. <beg> (I
do love that quote!) She was horribly offended (though *I* wasn't
allowed to be offended by her admission of violence!) and I
considered apologizing for several days ... then I realized I will
NEVER be sorry for making her think of me and my passion against
spanking every time she raises her hand to Jake.
~diana :)
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/3/04 5:50:04 PM, hahamommy@... writes:
<< I HAD to say something, express my own remorse over having raised my
hand to a child in anger, let her know that options are available
between *sweetie-pie* voices and a smack to the bottom. She used
the "but he'll just run into the street if I don't" arguement, so I
used the example given here about a child choosing to take their risk
with the scary street over the crazed spank-o-matic mommy. >>
"On another network" (in another place) someone defending restricting some TV
and books from kids used the example of car keys. Others have used that one
too, so it's kind of like "They'll run into the street" or "would you give
them heroin?" The shockers that I guess people will think we've never heard and
never considered and that are good logic.
I had never thought about it before this car-key mention, but my keys have
hung in plain view (on the refrigerator door) all of Kirby's life, and so all of
Marty's life and all of Holly's life. None of them has ever tried to drive
the van.
So if anyone here thinks the ONLY reason your kids don't drive your cars away
is that you keep the keys hidden, it's possible you're wrong.
People have come up with some of the weirdest theories, haven't they? And
the weirdest justifications for limiting children or hurting them. They're
saving them from a life of driving vans over OTHER kids whose parent failed to
spank them and so the street is full of unspanked chidren being run over by
children whose parents let them watch TV and get hold of car keys.
What a world, what a world.
Luckily, it exists in the imaginations of parents who have come to like being
mean to kids "for their own good."
Sandra
not apologizing for this either
<< I HAD to say something, express my own remorse over having raised my
hand to a child in anger, let her know that options are available
between *sweetie-pie* voices and a smack to the bottom. She used
the "but he'll just run into the street if I don't" arguement, so I
used the example given here about a child choosing to take their risk
with the scary street over the crazed spank-o-matic mommy. >>
"On another network" (in another place) someone defending restricting some TV
and books from kids used the example of car keys. Others have used that one
too, so it's kind of like "They'll run into the street" or "would you give
them heroin?" The shockers that I guess people will think we've never heard and
never considered and that are good logic.
I had never thought about it before this car-key mention, but my keys have
hung in plain view (on the refrigerator door) all of Kirby's life, and so all of
Marty's life and all of Holly's life. None of them has ever tried to drive
the van.
So if anyone here thinks the ONLY reason your kids don't drive your cars away
is that you keep the keys hidden, it's possible you're wrong.
People have come up with some of the weirdest theories, haven't they? And
the weirdest justifications for limiting children or hurting them. They're
saving them from a life of driving vans over OTHER kids whose parent failed to
spank them and so the street is full of unspanked chidren being run over by
children whose parents let them watch TV and get hold of car keys.
What a world, what a world.
Luckily, it exists in the imaginations of parents who have come to like being
mean to kids "for their own good."
Sandra
not apologizing for this either
Fetteroll
on 5/3/04 1:40 PM, b229d655@... at b229d655@... wrote:
==========
I think that trust is important. I suppose that if painful training were the
only way to gain trust, we'd just have to do it. But I'm glad there are
other ways to inspire trust in a child! :-) And they're not much different
than ways that we gain trust from adults, like being trustworthy and honest,
and treating people with respect. Children are people after all! And I think
that if it's something that I wouldn't want another human being to do to me,
it's not something I'd do to my child.
If my husband slapped me for wiggling until I didn't wiggle for an hour, I
might act as though I trusted him. It might look to other people as though I
trusted him. But I'd be obeying because I feared him. I'm not sure why
people believe that children have different emotional reactions than adults
do.
I also think obedience is overrated. Of course I do want my child to listen
when I yell "Stop!" And she does because she rarely hears a loud command so
"Stop!" does get her immediate attention.
And I do want her to listen when I am giving her advice. Just as I'd want my
husband or a friend to listen. And I do that by being a trustworthy person
that they want to listen to.
But in other matters I'd much rather model ways to work out conflicts that
my daughter could be using herself to resolve conflicts with others. She's
looking to me as a role model so I want to be the person I would like her to
be. If I in my "infinite parental wisdom" choose to resolve conflicts with
my child by being bigger and stronger and inspiring of fear, then why
shouldn't I expect her to emulate making someone do what she wants when she
has conflicts with others? I need to show her something better than more
powerful means you get to decide what's right for others.
===========
Joyce
> All children can learn to sit still, but it will require that you assertHow about:
> your will over theirs. It will often require some discipline, but it
> can easily be done.
> Her children learned early to trust and obey their parents.
==========
I think that trust is important. I suppose that if painful training were the
only way to gain trust, we'd just have to do it. But I'm glad there are
other ways to inspire trust in a child! :-) And they're not much different
than ways that we gain trust from adults, like being trustworthy and honest,
and treating people with respect. Children are people after all! And I think
that if it's something that I wouldn't want another human being to do to me,
it's not something I'd do to my child.
If my husband slapped me for wiggling until I didn't wiggle for an hour, I
might act as though I trusted him. It might look to other people as though I
trusted him. But I'd be obeying because I feared him. I'm not sure why
people believe that children have different emotional reactions than adults
do.
I also think obedience is overrated. Of course I do want my child to listen
when I yell "Stop!" And she does because she rarely hears a loud command so
"Stop!" does get her immediate attention.
And I do want her to listen when I am giving her advice. Just as I'd want my
husband or a friend to listen. And I do that by being a trustworthy person
that they want to listen to.
But in other matters I'd much rather model ways to work out conflicts that
my daughter could be using herself to resolve conflicts with others. She's
looking to me as a role model so I want to be the person I would like her to
be. If I in my "infinite parental wisdom" choose to resolve conflicts with
my child by being bigger and stronger and inspiring of fear, then why
shouldn't I expect her to emulate making someone do what she wants when she
has conflicts with others? I need to show her something better than more
powerful means you get to decide what's right for others.
===========
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/4/04 4:37:17 AM, fetteroll@... writes:
Joyce's posts are always so different, anc clear. They're not often the way
I had considered something, and I'm so glad she's back from her
other-busyness these days!
<< Children are people after all! And I think
that if it's something that I wouldn't want another human being to do to me,
it's not something I'd do to my child. >>
Once person is to that point, would it be too harsh to consider not doing
something to one's child we wouldn't want another adult (another relative, or
friend, or stranger!) doing? Picking a kid up and slapping his ass four or five
times and threatening to give him something to cry about if he doesn't shut
up? Putting our child in a room and saying "If you come out you'll be sorry?"
(I think that's a felony, if strangers do it. Kidnapping. Right up there
with murder.)
It seems extreme, but it's just one more step.
-=-I also think obedience is overrated. Of course I do want my child to listen
when I yell "Stop!" And she does because she rarely hears a loud command so
"Stop!" does get her immediate attention.-=-
If I were about to step into a roadway and ANY voice yelled "stop," I would
stop.
Maybe that's moving into the "it takes a village" arena, but I don't care.
Someone else's baby is sitting in my lap right this moment, who wasn't supposed
to be here for another three hours. Kirby spent an hour last night with
another adult (his karate teacher), talking about movies. I had no idea where he
was at first, and was a little worried (and friends of his were here waiting
for him to get home), but when he told me where he'd been I thought it was a
better place and better time-use than if he had rushed right home.
It might take a village to give a child all the experiences he needs to be
whole and grown, but it only takes one to break his spirit and abuse his soul.
Isn't it sad when that one is his mom, or his dad?
Sandra
Joyce's posts are always so different, anc clear. They're not often the way
I had considered something, and I'm so glad she's back from her
other-busyness these days!
<< Children are people after all! And I think
that if it's something that I wouldn't want another human being to do to me,
it's not something I'd do to my child. >>
Once person is to that point, would it be too harsh to consider not doing
something to one's child we wouldn't want another adult (another relative, or
friend, or stranger!) doing? Picking a kid up and slapping his ass four or five
times and threatening to give him something to cry about if he doesn't shut
up? Putting our child in a room and saying "If you come out you'll be sorry?"
(I think that's a felony, if strangers do it. Kidnapping. Right up there
with murder.)
It seems extreme, but it's just one more step.
-=-I also think obedience is overrated. Of course I do want my child to listen
when I yell "Stop!" And she does because she rarely hears a loud command so
"Stop!" does get her immediate attention.-=-
If I were about to step into a roadway and ANY voice yelled "stop," I would
stop.
Maybe that's moving into the "it takes a village" arena, but I don't care.
Someone else's baby is sitting in my lap right this moment, who wasn't supposed
to be here for another three hours. Kirby spent an hour last night with
another adult (his karate teacher), talking about movies. I had no idea where he
was at first, and was a little worried (and friends of his were here waiting
for him to get home), but when he told me where he'd been I thought it was a
better place and better time-use than if he had rushed right home.
It might take a village to give a child all the experiences he needs to be
whole and grown, but it only takes one to break his spirit and abuse his soul.
Isn't it sad when that one is his mom, or his dad?
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/3/2004 2:00:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
never really thought about it but the list owner on that other list is a
Christian Patriarch? If I have that term wrong, sorry. It is a varied list, but
I'll have to choose my words well, I think.
I've never seen the Home School Digest. I think I may not want to.
Pamela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> The Old SchoolhouseThanks for the help. I have seen the Old Schoolhouse and it is extreme!!! I
never really thought about it but the list owner on that other list is a
Christian Patriarch? If I have that term wrong, sorry. It is a varied list, but
I'll have to choose my words well, I think.
I've never seen the Home School Digest. I think I may not want to.
Pamela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/3/2004 4:02:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tarasamja@... writes:
when I realized that the tone of the owner/moderator was harsh towards children.
But they are his views as the patriarch of his family and usually the
discussions are wonderful, all walks of life, etc. But I have begun to see the owner
bring up more stuff like this and it justs freaks me out. I may very well
have to leave that list for personal reasons not because of what I might say.
EEEEKKKKK!!!! I just don't know how to meet anyone in my area so I was kinda
holding on to that list in hopes of finding some people in this area.
Pamela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tarasamja@... writes:
> Wow! What kind of list is this on? If others on the list wereIt is a homeschool list in my area that has been very good until recently
> agreeing with this, I would put in my two cents and run away!
when I realized that the tone of the owner/moderator was harsh towards children.
But they are his views as the patriarch of his family and usually the
discussions are wonderful, all walks of life, etc. But I have begun to see the owner
bring up more stuff like this and it justs freaks me out. I may very well
have to leave that list for personal reasons not because of what I might say.
EEEEKKKKK!!!! I just don't know how to meet anyone in my area so I was kinda
holding on to that list in hopes of finding some people in this area.
Pamela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/3/2004 4:12:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mamaaj2000@... writes:
voicing their's that I may help someone who may be reading both sides. I don't
think this person would seek a different method because I believe from all I've
read that she is following her husband's orders.
Pamela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mamaaj2000@... writes:
> And I was so suprised when she told me she'd beenThat's kinda how I feel, I wonder if I just voice an opinion as they are
> being more patient with her son because of things I've said!
voicing their's that I may help someone who may be reading both sides. I don't
think this person would seek a different method because I believe from all I've
read that she is following her husband's orders.
Pamela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/3/2004 4:31:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
Pamela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> But if you say strong, real things, sheVery good point, thanks!!!
> will never again be able to spank without a little twinge of doubt, or
> guilt,
> or the feeling that people are looking over her shoulder, and not everyone
> would defend her.
Pamela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/3/2004 7:49:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
hahamommy@... writes:
that, I mean that I think the spanking parent will remember the words but then I
have the tendency to think about how many more times it will happen.
Pamela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
hahamommy@... writes:
> then I realized I willShe will probably think about it every time, unfortunately so will we. In
> NEVER be sorry for making her think of me and my passion against
> spanking every time she raises her hand to Jake.
>
that, I mean that I think the spanking parent will remember the words but then I
have the tendency to think about how many more times it will happen.
Pamela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/3/2004 8:28:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
the kids were very little, babies love keys (they must taste good too)!!!
Well, my DS (2.5) has recently started asking if he could drive the van and he
has major fascination with cars, engines, etc. so his interest is there. Will I
hide the keys now, NO :0)
Pamela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> I had never thought about it before this car-key mention, but my keys haveOur keys are always in plain view and even provided many moments of awe when
> hung in plain view (on the refrigerator door) all of Kirby's life, and so
> all of
> Marty's life and all of Holly's life. None of them has ever tried to drive
> the van.
the kids were very little, babies love keys (they must taste good too)!!!
Well, my DS (2.5) has recently started asking if he could drive the van and he
has major fascination with cars, engines, etc. so his interest is there. Will I
hide the keys now, NO :0)
Pamela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mark and Julie
In a message dated 5/3/2004 8:28:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
I had never thought about it before this car-key mention, but my keys have
hung in plain view (on the refrigerator door) all of Kirby's life, and so
all of Marty's life and all of Holly's life. None of them has ever tried
to drive the van.
Yesterday Mia (5yrs) had asked where the keys were, as she needed to get
something out of the car. I told her where they were and went on with what I
was doing. I didn't see her take them or put them back. This morning I went
to get them so I could take Mark to work and I couldn't find them. I went in
to Mia's room and woke her. She said she had put them back on the breakfast
bar but I hadn't seen them so I asked her where exactly. She told me (half
asleep) she had put them on our yearbook, (which I had moved while
searching). Sure enough there they were between the pages. We got out to the
car. She had left the loose change sitting in there undisturbed and
remembered to lock the car when she was done.
Julie
SandraDodd@... writes:
I had never thought about it before this car-key mention, but my keys have
hung in plain view (on the refrigerator door) all of Kirby's life, and so
all of Marty's life and all of Holly's life. None of them has ever tried
to drive the van.
Yesterday Mia (5yrs) had asked where the keys were, as she needed to get
something out of the car. I told her where they were and went on with what I
was doing. I didn't see her take them or put them back. This morning I went
to get them so I could take Mark to work and I couldn't find them. I went in
to Mia's room and woke her. She said she had put them back on the breakfast
bar but I hadn't seen them so I asked her where exactly. She told me (half
asleep) she had put them on our yearbook, (which I had moved while
searching). Sure enough there they were between the pages. We got out to the
car. She had left the loose change sitting in there undisturbed and
remembered to lock the car when she was done.
Julie