[email protected]

In a message dated 4/26/2004 6:27:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sunshinemommy2001@... writes:

> Our family loves to play cards games my oldest son Paul just learned
> to
> play a card game called HAND and FOOT.

Oh, my gosh! My mom and I used to play that ALL the time! She learned from
her aunt, but we have forgotten how to play, the rules and the scoring over the
years-would you mind emailing me offlist and telling me again how to play?
(That's the one where you use 1 more deck of cards than there are people playing,
right?) I'd really appreciate it!

Síocháin ar domhan,
Sang
Sanguinegirl83 @ aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/26/2004 6:27:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sunshinemommy2001@... writes:

> Now when my son asks me why we call and visit grandma so much I tell
> him that's what we do for family we help out, his answer is alway OK
> can I help.

That's how I feel, too. My mother was a HORRID mother, and I moved far away
when I got married. We rarely visited (since every visit would end up in a
fight), and almost never called, but after our son was born, we very quickly ended
up seeing them every Sunday. My mother (who is still pretty mean and rotten
to me) has ended up a pretty darn good grandmother. My FIL hates me (and from
DHs opinion, was an extremely rotten father) and tried to talk DH out of
marrying me a couple of weeks before the wedding, but he is a very loving
grandfather! There is NO WAY, however I feel about these people, that I could deny my
son the wonderful relationship he has with them. I had to bite the bullet at
first, but now that he is older and can spend time alone with them, it is much
easier. And no matter how tough it might have been on me in the beginning, it
is/was SO worth it. He asks to call them, to e-mail them, to visit them. Last
week, he spent the night 2 different nights at my parents, along with our
regular Sunday visit, and when we got home, he was sad because he missed them!!
How's that for unconditional love?! I'm very happy for him. Hopefully, that will
translate to his kids, and even more hopefully, to his father and I when we are
old and decrepit! ;~D Thanks for sharing, Elizabeth!

Peace,
Sang


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Angela

Sang,
Is she rotten to you in front of your son?

Angela
<mailto:game-enthusiast@...> game-enthusiast@...

My mother (who is still pretty mean and rotten
to me) has ended up a pretty darn good grandmother.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

sharonjrt

It is an interesting anomaly.

Many people feel free to enjoy children when they are not COMPLETELY
responsible for their upbringing. I've known grandparents,
aunts/uncles, even neighbors, who could play with great abandon, as
long as it was with somebody else's kids.

As far as daycare goes, it has become an expensive and extremely
limited option, for those who must work outside the home. I was the
youngest of 3 children and my mom babysat a number friends/neighbors,
over the years. It was like having younger sibilings for me. Finding
responsible people to provide this type of support is difficult these
days. In our city, full-day Public pre-school is now available for 3
year olds, as a solution.

I feel that there are a large number of families that have parents
that have overextended themselves. We live in New Jersey and I am
constantly amazed by the amount of farmland here that has been plowed
under and replaced by $700,000 houses. Who has families large enough
to fill these places? How many hours do both parents have to work to
pay those kind of mortgages? Whose watching the kids? -schools.
Clearly, that type of life was not your choice (or mine).

Enjoy the fact that your parents can be "Grand". It is good to see
that you don't seem to resent their new found abilities. Just make
sure that your homeschooling efforts are not being undermined
by "schoolies". I try not to mention the "UN"-part too much when I
discuss our schooling with those types of family members. It tends to
make them doubt their own traditional approach to education and they
get defensive.

My dd just turned 4 and unschooling suits her just fine. She will say
she want to go to school and do homework, but I think it comes from
watching PBS Kids shows, where everybody GOES to school. She does
inform people that she is a homeschooler when they ask her if she
goes to pre-school.
Live!
Learn!
Laugh!
p.s. I too am interested in Hand & Foot. It sounds fun!

Elizabeth Fleming

Hi
Yes I will write them down It my take me a little
while I won't be able to get to it untill the kids a
in bed. Would anyone else be interested it's a great
game. Paul is six going on seven and loves to play,
but he has watched from a baby
Elizabeth
--- Sanguinegirl83@... wrote:
> In a message dated 4/26/2004 6:27:11 PM Eastern
> Daylight Time,
> sunshinemommy2001@... writes:
>
> > Our family loves to play cards games my oldest son
> Paul just learned
> > to
> > play a card game called HAND and FOOT.
>
> Oh, my gosh! My mom and I used to play that ALL the
> time! She learned from
> her aunt, but we have forgotten how to play, the
> rules and the scoring over the
> years-would you mind emailing me offlist and telling
> me again how to play?
> (That's the one where you use 1 more deck of cards
> than there are people playing,
> right?) I'd really appreciate it!
>
> S�och�in ar domhan,
> Sang
> Sanguinegirl83 @ aol.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>





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[email protected]

In a message dated 4/27/04 3:46:44 AM, Sanguinegirl83@... writes:

<< My mother (who is still pretty mean and rotten
to me) has ended up a pretty darn good grandmother. My FIL hates me (and from
DHs opinion, was an extremely rotten father) and tried to talk DH out of
marrying me a couple of weeks before the wedding, but he is a very loving
grandfather! >>

That's very cool.
My mom was a crummy grandmother. Really lame.

BUT... She was a good mom to my sister.

My sister talked about this last week, when I delivered my mom's ashes to
her. She had told me on the phone that when I was at her house, she wanted me
to tell her what I thought about why I had been hurt by my mom and she didn't
seem to have been.

I didn't really want to talk to her about it too much. I planned a couple of
short statements to get out of it, and that worked fairly well. What I
mainly did was to remind her that 20-some years ago, when my dad died, she had been
telling me bad things about her relationship with him (nothing horrid, just
frustrations and resentments) and I told her that he wasn't that way with me,
and that it was really okay (and inevitable) that her relationship with him was
hers, and separate from mine.

It's the same with friendships. I have some friends other friends don't
like. I see why. I just don't hang out with them at the same time. My husband
has some friends I don't have any fun around, but I do see why they enjoy being
together, so I just subtly arrange to be elsewhere.

My relationships with my three kids are different, in the ways that they're
different people, and in the ways I was different when we settled on patterns.

Keith's dad is the greatest grandparent my kids have. He's much lighter and
looser with the kids than he was with his kids. Keith's mom isn't light or
loose with anyone, and that's okay. We just work around her inflexibility,
and we're all civil and as fakey-nice as we can be. (Two weeks, we'll be
there... preparing my smiles and slightly-forceful comebacks.)

So I told my sister and her newish husband who doesn't know us very well and
hardly knew my mom (only in recent years when she was a mess) just a couple of
symbolic stories and summarized with them not needing to know more, just to
know that I had hurts Irene didn't need to know about.

And Irene told me something I had never known. She's 47, I'm 50. We were
the only two kids of that family. My parents were married for 17 years. My
mom used to tell Irene that my dad never wanted her, that he only loved me, but
that my MOM loved her and was glad to have her, and that I was just a daddy's
girl, but Irene was my mom's.

Huh.

That's hardly designed to foster trust and warmth.

So parents can screw up hugely, and I'm glad I get to communicate with so
many people here and at unschooling.com and at conferences who have no interest
in settling for screwing up until the kids are gone.

And I'm glad to hear stories of grandparents who see the value in being sweet
to grandchildren. Maybe some of them kept on learning about children and
relationships even after their own children were gone. Good for everyone
involved, and good for those who only vicariously get to hear about it from far away.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/27/2004 11:24:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
And Irene told me something I had never known. She's 47, I'm 50. We were
the only two kids of that family. My parents were married for 17 years. My
mom used to tell Irene that my dad never wanted her, that he only loved me,
but
that my MOM loved her and was glad to have her, and that I was just a daddy's
girl, but Irene was my mom's.<<<<

I'm sorry for both of you. That's sad.

But at least you each had someone who was there for you. That's something.

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/27/04 9:32:54 AM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:

<< My mom used to tell Irene that my dad never wanted her, that he only loved
me,
. . .<<<<

<<I'm sorry for both of you. That's sad. >>

And one of the saddest things is that I would bet big bucks it wasn't even
true.
My mom was not good at telling the truth straight out. She had a lot of bad
patch-job on her self-image and her justification and rationalizations about
why things were as they were.

Sandra

pam sorooshian

Rules for a number of different versions of Hand and Foot and some
interesting info about the game.

<http://www.pagat.com/rummy/handfoot.html>


-pam


On Apr 27, 2004, at 5:58 AM, Elizabeth Fleming wrote:

> Yes I will write them down It my take me a little
> while I won't be able to get to it untill the kids a
> in bed. Would anyone else be interested it's a great
> game. Paul is six going on seven and loves to play,
> but he has watched from a baby
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

Tara

Doesn't it make you a bit jealous? :) My husband and I both grew up
in very strict, over-bearing, over-protective households. Now that
we are grown, our parents are much more laid back and fun. Our son
has a great relationship with both sets of grandparents. I think it
is wonderful, but sometimes it does make me a bit jealous, not that
I ever say anything about it. There is just a twinge when I see my
son having the relationship with my father that I wanted. But, I am
happy for the both of them. Instead of longing for that with my dad,
now that I am an adult, I can focus on creating the relationship I
want with my son. It still almost knocks me over everytime I hear my
dad say something like 'he's a kid, let him play, he's having fun',
when I would've gotten in big trouble, as a child, for doing the
same thing. I think life does give you that perspective. I don't
want to be sixty before I see things that way. Peace - Tara



--- In [email protected], Sanguinegirl83@a...
wrote:
> In a message dated 4/26/2004 6:27:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> sunshinemommy2001@y... writes:
>
> > Now when my son asks me why we call and visit grandma so much I
tell
> > him that's what we do for family we help out, his answer is
alway OK
> > can I help.
>
> That's how I feel, too. My mother was a HORRID mother, and I moved
far away
> when I got married. We rarely visited (since every visit would end
up in a
> fight), and almost never called, but after our son was born, we
very quickly ended
> up seeing them every Sunday. My mother (who is still pretty mean
and rotten
> to me) has ended up a pretty darn good grandmother. My FIL hates
me (and from
> DHs opinion, was an extremely rotten father) and tried to talk DH
out of
> marrying me a couple of weeks before the wedding, but he is a very
loving
> grandfather! There is NO WAY, however I feel about these people,
that I could deny my
> son the wonderful relationship he has with them. I had to bite the
bullet at
> first, but now that he is older and can spend time alone with
them, it is much
> easier. And no matter how tough it might have been on me in the
beginning, it
> is/was SO worth it. He asks to call them, to e-mail them, to visit
them. Last
> week, he spent the night 2 different nights at my parents, along
with our
> regular Sunday visit, and when we got home, he was sad because he
missed them!!
> How's that for unconditional love?! I'm very happy for him.
Hopefully, that will
> translate to his kids, and even more hopefully, to his father and
I when we are
> old and decrepit! ;~D Thanks for sharing, Elizabeth!
>
> Peace,
> Sang
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/27/2004 7:13:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
game-enthusiast@... writes:

> Sang,
> Is she rotten to you in front of your son?
>

No-she's too occupied with him to pay any attention to me! LOL Once she tried
"taking over" with him while he was writing and trying to teach him the
"right way" to make a letter (T?), but when I balked and told her that his Ts were
fine, you could tell what letter it was, and he didn't need any "specific" way
to make them, she had a fit and started to argue with me, but when I firmly
stood my ground, she looked me in the eye, saw that she wasn't going to win and
gave up! My only victory with her! LOL She's a mother-she should know better
than to mess with a mama! ;~) No, really, she only pays cursory attention to
me when he is around-which is fine with me!

Peace,
Sang


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Elizabeth Fleming

BIG BIG THANKS I was writing them down at the moment
and my hand is killing me. I'm definitely going to
save that web the other versions sound cool. I'm not
great at writing and was even willing to go up to the
book store to look as an alternative.
I wasn't clear before it's my mother-in-law that I'm
close with she is the mother I always dreamed of. She
is a war bride from Japan and when she moved here in
1952 her mother-in-law taught her about the states so
I think she thinks thats how all mother-in-laws
are(I'm not going to enlighten her shes great)!!!!
I have a very stressed friendship with my own mom.
When she got pregnant with me and it had only been six
weeks since she had lost a pregnancy of six months.
she was very depressed and thinking of divorcing my
dad and there I came not a happy time for her,and I
was the scape goat. My brother who is older by 2 years
has a great friendship and my younger sister by 9yrs
also love her to death. I on the other hand get teased
in restaurants about how big my maturity underwear
were as I'm tring to talk to the waiter definitely no
warm fuzz es there. We spent six weeks with her while
FL. is turning green and It was very very hard to to
keep a civil tongue around my kids. I can't say I feel
all that comfortable letting her babysit she is still
not soft and cozy and short tempered with kids but my
boys love her any way and that is great. I was hoping
she would get nicer but sometimes you get what you get
and that it O well
--- pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
> Rules for a number of different versions of Hand and
> Foot and some
> interesting info about the game.
>
> <http://www.pagat.com/rummy/handfoot.html>
>
>
> -pam
>
>
> On Apr 27, 2004, at 5:58 AM, Elizabeth Fleming
> wrote:
>
> > Yes I will write them down It my take me a little
> > while I won't be able to get to it untill the kids
> a
> > in bed. Would anyone else be interested it's a
> great
> > game. Paul is six going on seven and loves to
> play,
> > but he has watched from a baby
> National Home Education Network
> <www.NHEN.org>
> Serving the entire homeschooling community since
> 1999
> through information, networking and public
> relations.
>
>






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Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
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In a message dated 4/27/2004 11:53:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
sunshinemommy2001@... writes:

> Yes I will write them down It my take me a little
> while I won't be able to get to it untill the kids a
> in bed. Would anyone else be interested it's a great
> game. Paul is six going on seven and loves to play,
> but he has watched from a baby
> Elizabeth
>

Wonderful! Take your time-I'm in no rush. :~) Thank you!

Peace,
Sang


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Angela

Sang,
I am so glad to hear that she is not rotten to you in front of your son. I
know someone who had a very cruel mother and she visits her now because she
says she's a wonderful grandmother but her mother still cuts her down in
front of her kids. I personally wouldn't put up with that. If she wanted
to be around her grandkids, she'd have to treat me with respect.
Angela
game-enthusiast@...


> Sang,
> Is she rotten to you in front of your son?
>

Sang wrote:
No-she's too occupied with him to pay any attention to me!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/28/2004 7:53:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
game-enthusiast@... writes:

> I
> know someone who had a very cruel mother and she visits her now because she
> says she's a wonderful grandmother but her mother still cuts her down in
> front of her kids. I personally wouldn't put up with that. If she wanted
> to be around her grandkids, she'd have to treat me with respect.
> Angela
>

Hmmm... I had never thought of that aspect. I think you're right... It
wouldn't be teaching (I know, that word! but I can't figure out what else to use...)
him how to be an adult or a parent. (Showing? :~) ) That would be a tough
one-I'm sure glad I don't have to deal with it! :~) Thanks for giving me
something to think about!

Síocháin ar domhan,
Sang


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn Coburn

<<wouldn't be teaching (I know, that word! but I can't figure out what else
to use...) him how to be an adult or a parent. (Showing? :~) )>>

I think the word you are looking for is "modeling".
Robyn L. Coburn

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.658 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 4/9/2004

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/29/2004 3:53:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dezigna@... writes:

> I think the word you are looking for is "modeling".
> Robyn L. Coburn

:~) Thank you. I don't think well after 4am! :~D

Síocháin ar domhan,
Sang


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]