Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Arm Yourself Against Stupidity! An Unschooling Mo...
[email protected]
Lmanathome@... writes:
tried to make of it.
She is our first-born, and I am a recovering public school
professional <grin> so I pushed some arithmetic workbooks on her at one point, afraid she
was really "behind" in that one area. That, and some ill-fated music lessons
-- piano and violin -- when counting out the note values interfered with her
interest in the exquisite sounds she wanted to make. The counting and numbers
got in her way rather than helping her, so she resented them and the attention
grown-ups kept insisting she pay to them.
I really thought it was the opposite, that the numbers would help her
do what she wanted to do. Which is true, but it just doesn't matter if what
she learns is to avoid and dislike anything that looks like "math." So I did
some wrong things for right reasons, things I dearly wish I could take back!
Having said that, I do think different individuals have different
affinities, things they're drawn to and things that don't resonate so easily with
their own intelligences and perceptions. My daughter was never going to love
numbers like my son does, or like she loves books and the arts, whether I
pushed or not. But you asked about the "phobic" nature of her reaction to math, and
I do think I contributed to that.
Fortunately, at long last, we seem to be finding small unschooling
opportunities for her to begin reconsidering this. So that's my answer as an
unschooler.
But as a professional educator and analyst, I just read something
about desensitizing people with real phobias, some scientific evidence suggesting
that one massive exposure to arouse maximum fear was a faster, more effective
way to extinguish a phobic response than the traditional therapy of gradually
introducing small, well-tolerated doses of the fear factor over time. I was
picturing not learning math but spiders and cliffs at the time, and thought it
sounded so horrible that I personally would rather live with the phobia. But as
a scientific question ONLY -- I wonder how that would fit with whatever we
did with arithmetic workbooks (was that math as an aggravating allergen, or a
desensitizing dose at that point? If I had made a whole week of math misery,
like the way John Rosemond recommends toilet training, would that have had the
same effect as overcoming response through a massive does? Et cetera.)
I don't know those answers, and barely can even think of reasonable
questions to frame! But I find thinking about it all is irresistible, and I'm
beginning to see that same tendency in DD.
So although it may happen much later than had I handled things
differently, I now predict (with secret delight) she will seize math by the throat
and demand that it help her do this! JJ
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> <<DD hates math almost to the point of being phobic about it.>>Good question! I'd have to say it was the unschooling exception I
>
> JJ, I am curious - what makes an unschooler hate math? Lisa H.
>
tried to make of it.
She is our first-born, and I am a recovering public school
professional <grin> so I pushed some arithmetic workbooks on her at one point, afraid she
was really "behind" in that one area. That, and some ill-fated music lessons
-- piano and violin -- when counting out the note values interfered with her
interest in the exquisite sounds she wanted to make. The counting and numbers
got in her way rather than helping her, so she resented them and the attention
grown-ups kept insisting she pay to them.
I really thought it was the opposite, that the numbers would help her
do what she wanted to do. Which is true, but it just doesn't matter if what
she learns is to avoid and dislike anything that looks like "math." So I did
some wrong things for right reasons, things I dearly wish I could take back!
Having said that, I do think different individuals have different
affinities, things they're drawn to and things that don't resonate so easily with
their own intelligences and perceptions. My daughter was never going to love
numbers like my son does, or like she loves books and the arts, whether I
pushed or not. But you asked about the "phobic" nature of her reaction to math, and
I do think I contributed to that.
Fortunately, at long last, we seem to be finding small unschooling
opportunities for her to begin reconsidering this. So that's my answer as an
unschooler.
But as a professional educator and analyst, I just read something
about desensitizing people with real phobias, some scientific evidence suggesting
that one massive exposure to arouse maximum fear was a faster, more effective
way to extinguish a phobic response than the traditional therapy of gradually
introducing small, well-tolerated doses of the fear factor over time. I was
picturing not learning math but spiders and cliffs at the time, and thought it
sounded so horrible that I personally would rather live with the phobia. But as
a scientific question ONLY -- I wonder how that would fit with whatever we
did with arithmetic workbooks (was that math as an aggravating allergen, or a
desensitizing dose at that point? If I had made a whole week of math misery,
like the way John Rosemond recommends toilet training, would that have had the
same effect as overcoming response through a massive does? Et cetera.)
I don't know those answers, and barely can even think of reasonable
questions to frame! But I find thinking about it all is irresistible, and I'm
beginning to see that same tendency in DD.
So although it may happen much later than had I handled things
differently, I now predict (with secret delight) she will seize math by the throat
and demand that it help her do this! JJ
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Hill
**But as a professional educator and analyst, I just read something
about desensitizing people with real phobias, some scientific evidence
suggesting
that one massive exposure to arouse maximum fear was a faster, more
effective
way to extinguish a phobic response than the traditional therapy of
gradually
introducing small, well-tolerated doses of the fear factor over time. I was
picturing not learning math but spiders and cliffs at the time, and
thought it
sounded so horrible that I personally would rather live with the phobia.**
Me, too! Honestly, it sounds like it would create far more phobias than
it cures.
:::: shuddering ::::
Betsy
about desensitizing people with real phobias, some scientific evidence
suggesting
that one massive exposure to arouse maximum fear was a faster, more
effective
way to extinguish a phobic response than the traditional therapy of
gradually
introducing small, well-tolerated doses of the fear factor over time. I was
picturing not learning math but spiders and cliffs at the time, and
thought it
sounded so horrible that I personally would rather live with the phobia.**
Me, too! Honestly, it sounds like it would create far more phobias than
it cures.
:::: shuddering ::::
Betsy
[email protected]
<< I really thought it was the opposite, that the numbers would help her
do what she wanted to do. Which is true, >>
What makes it true if it didn't work though?
-=- I wonder how that would fit with whatever we
did with arithmetic workbooks (was that math as an aggravating allergen, or a
desensitizing dose at that point? If I had made a whole week of math misery,
like the way John Rosemond recommends toilet training, would that have had
the
same effect as overcoming response through a massive does?-=-
Schools make years of math misery and it doesn't seem to do anything but shut
people down more, some to the point that they can be 40 years old and afraid
of their own checkbooks because it "looks like math."
School tells kids their own ideas are wrong. Math teachers are infamous for
giving zero points if the work wasn't written out to their specifications.
Finding the answer by other means is *wrong* and not acknowledged as legitimate
or useful in any way. It's called harmful. Not subtly. Overtly.
-=- Good question! I'd have to say it was the unschooling exception I
tried to make of it.
She is our first-born, and I am a recovering public school
professional <grin> so I pushed some arithmetic workbooks on her at one
point, afraid she
was really "behind" in that one area.-=-
That's not making it an unschooling anything, is it? I think I know what you
meant, but what you seem to have done was to "school it." I don't think that
was an unschooling exception. It was a not-at-all unschooling.
Most of the kinds of damaging that schools do can be done at home.
Marty and Holly are both clearly mathematically minded. They will start
speaking of patterns and liklihoods when others in the room are wholly in
linguistic mode, with analogies at most, and more likely in flowery or emotional
descriptions. I think it's cool. It's not about numbers, though. It's not that
they're thinking in numbers.
Numbers come on their own. Math can too, if the parts of the brain where it
works haven't been loaded with numbers and math terminology that they might
want to use someday. They need room inside to do cartwheels and they'll fill in
the numbers in their own way later.
Sandra
do what she wanted to do. Which is true, >>
What makes it true if it didn't work though?
-=- I wonder how that would fit with whatever we
did with arithmetic workbooks (was that math as an aggravating allergen, or a
desensitizing dose at that point? If I had made a whole week of math misery,
like the way John Rosemond recommends toilet training, would that have had
the
same effect as overcoming response through a massive does?-=-
Schools make years of math misery and it doesn't seem to do anything but shut
people down more, some to the point that they can be 40 years old and afraid
of their own checkbooks because it "looks like math."
School tells kids their own ideas are wrong. Math teachers are infamous for
giving zero points if the work wasn't written out to their specifications.
Finding the answer by other means is *wrong* and not acknowledged as legitimate
or useful in any way. It's called harmful. Not subtly. Overtly.
-=- Good question! I'd have to say it was the unschooling exception I
tried to make of it.
She is our first-born, and I am a recovering public school
professional <grin> so I pushed some arithmetic workbooks on her at one
point, afraid she
was really "behind" in that one area.-=-
That's not making it an unschooling anything, is it? I think I know what you
meant, but what you seem to have done was to "school it." I don't think that
was an unschooling exception. It was a not-at-all unschooling.
Most of the kinds of damaging that schools do can be done at home.
Marty and Holly are both clearly mathematically minded. They will start
speaking of patterns and liklihoods when others in the room are wholly in
linguistic mode, with analogies at most, and more likely in flowery or emotional
descriptions. I think it's cool. It's not about numbers, though. It's not that
they're thinking in numbers.
Numbers come on their own. Math can too, if the parts of the brain where it
works haven't been loaded with numbers and math terminology that they might
want to use someday. They need room inside to do cartwheels and they'll fill in
the numbers in their own way later.
Sandra
pam sorooshian
On Apr 23, 2004, at 10:04 AM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
teacher marked most of her answers wrong on her first test because she
just wrote down the correct answer without putting an "equals" sign in
front of it in a complete math sentence. What I mean is that she just
wrote the answer "4" instead of writing out "2 + 2 = 4" and the teacher
marked off points every time, even though the answer was correct.
Her answer, when Roya asks her to explain something, is to say, "That
is the way we do it in this class."
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
> School tells kids their own ideas are wrong. Math teachers areRoya (19) has a college level algebra course RIGHT NOW in which the
> infamous for
> giving zero points if the work wasn't written out to their
> specifications.
teacher marked most of her answers wrong on her first test because she
just wrote down the correct answer without putting an "equals" sign in
front of it in a complete math sentence. What I mean is that she just
wrote the answer "4" instead of writing out "2 + 2 = 4" and the teacher
marked off points every time, even though the answer was correct.
Her answer, when Roya asks her to explain something, is to say, "That
is the way we do it in this class."
-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.
Lisa H
JJ. Thanks so much for your response to the "math" question. I shared your original post and this reply with my husband. It was a great opportunity to support what i've been doing and for him to see other's who have had similar struggles as our own. In response to his anxiety at times throughout the years I have succumbed to non-unschooling moments setting aside time for "learning activities" specifically math and reading based on his requirements not my dd's requests or interest. Due to the absurdity of this approach - inevitably and fortunately these moments don't last long... My dd defines herself as one who loves numbers but hates math <lol>.
Lisa H.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa H.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]