Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] TV content
Dawn Adams
Erika writes:
they'll want to watch. I did that with the Simpsons and my 5 year old. Guess
what was the only show she talked about during that short time? Now she's
free to watch it and rarely does.
fondly from childhood. I spent hours upon hours playing GIJoe with my
brothers and thought the show was great.
That just seems really strange too - what is that
cartoon. If they get desensitzed to cartoon violence, oh well. Honestly, you
have more influence over your kids then any TV show ever will.
wasn't because I liked seeing people get hurt. I was enamoured with the
special effects. At one point in my teenage years I could name off all the
important FX studios and artists (and I collected comic books and I was a
girl. Definate geek.). I understood that it was a movie and nobody was
getting hurt. So if I hissed, 'cooooool', after a head was parted from its
shoulders it was in admiration of someone's skill with model heads. Anyhow,
I can't watch it like I used too. All the movies I used to watch didn't do
diddly to desensitize me in the long run and the last horror flick I watched
had me covering my eyes.
That isn't entertaiment for you, but it is for others...and not for the
reasons you assume.
part is the darkest, the Mines of Moria. It's a pretty violent film but
she's watched the making of documentries on the DVD so she knows what goes
into making a Balrog or a good decapitation scene. How has it affected her?
Legolas is married to her apparently and we've had marathon discussions
about good and evil. Has it harmed her innocence? I'm not the right one to
answer that I think...I don't really believe in that and think 'innocence'
is usually code for not talking to children about things that make adults
squeamish. It always assume childhood is some blessed state of happiness
free from worry and stress. Anyhow, off on a tangent. She's still the sweet,
caring girl we've always had. I haven't noticed her running about the
neighbourhood slashing at the neighbours with a kitchen knife. :)
I don't see my role as keeping my kids away from certain things, I see it
as making sure they're equipped to deal with and make choices about those
things.
Dawn (in NS)
> "Don't set up a situation where they will be tempted to watch a programI think she meant that as soon as you put a show offlimits, that's all
> precisely because you don't like it."
>
> Sandra - I am not getting what you meant by this statement. And I really
> want to! :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
they'll want to watch. I did that with the Simpsons and my 5 year old. Guess
what was the only show she talked about during that short time? Now she's
free to watch it and rarely does.
> It is not that my husband forces my kids to watch the shows, but hepresents
> the shows to them. I guess I am speculating that if he didn't presentthose
> shows that they wouldn't have the option.I think your husband probably wants to introduce shwos that he remembers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
fondly from childhood. I spent hours upon hours playing GIJoe with my
brothers and thought the show was great.
> Also, I want to express all of my worries about these types of shows andworry
> perhaps you (the group) could provide some feedback...I guess GI Joe to me
> is a show with army guys who fight a lot. I am worried that if my kids
> watch that show that they will grow up to be desensitized to that. I
> that when they are adults and see violence on the news that it won'taffect
> them - they wouldn't see the reality of it. My husband says that in GIJoe
> nobody ever dies.Have you watched this show yet?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
That just seems really strange too - what is that
> teaching my kids? I am worried of what that show would do to my kid'sThe show is only a half hour. And there's not that much shooting. And it's a
> psyches....it just can't be good for them to sit and watch people shooting
> each other for hours.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
cartoon. If they get desensitzed to cartoon violence, oh well. Honestly, you
have more influence over your kids then any TV show ever will.
> Honestly, I have always had a distaste for violence in movies and TV. II used to gobble up horror flicks. The more gore the better. And no, it
> don't understand how people can watch other people being hurt. That isn't
> entertainment to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
wasn't because I liked seeing people get hurt. I was enamoured with the
special effects. At one point in my teenage years I could name off all the
important FX studios and artists (and I collected comic books and I was a
girl. Definate geek.). I understood that it was a movie and nobody was
getting hurt. So if I hissed, 'cooooool', after a head was parted from its
shoulders it was in admiration of someone's skill with model heads. Anyhow,
I can't watch it like I used too. All the movies I used to watch didn't do
diddly to desensitize me in the long run and the last horror flick I watched
had me covering my eyes.
That isn't entertaiment for you, but it is for others...and not for the
reasons you assume.
> If your young children wanted to watch an adult-rated movie that wasreally
> violent, would you let them watch it? Isn't it the role of a parent tomake
> sure that children are not exposed to this at too young of an age? WhatMy daugher has watched Lord of the Rings (at her begging). Her favourite
> about protecting their innocence while they are young?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
part is the darkest, the Mines of Moria. It's a pretty violent film but
she's watched the making of documentries on the DVD so she knows what goes
into making a Balrog or a good decapitation scene. How has it affected her?
Legolas is married to her apparently and we've had marathon discussions
about good and evil. Has it harmed her innocence? I'm not the right one to
answer that I think...I don't really believe in that and think 'innocence'
is usually code for not talking to children about things that make adults
squeamish. It always assume childhood is some blessed state of happiness
free from worry and stress. Anyhow, off on a tangent. She's still the sweet,
caring girl we've always had. I haven't noticed her running about the
neighbourhood slashing at the neighbours with a kitchen knife. :)
I don't see my role as keeping my kids away from certain things, I see it
as making sure they're equipped to deal with and make choices about those
things.
Dawn (in NS)
Erika Nunn
Hello,
I have a question about televisilon and my children, who are ages 3 and 4.
I have relaxed a lot when it comes to television/videos and my kids watching
them. However, ever since I have started relaxing my husband has gone from
having them watch PBS to GI Joe cartoons (this is when I am at work in the
evening). It started out with PBS kid's shows, which I was very fine with.
Then it went to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles which I didn't really think was
age appropriate, but I let it go because my son loves it so much. Then they
started watching Fox Box which I have never seen, but I didn't say anything
about that either. But then he showed them GI Joe cartoons which for me
just seemed like too much for their age. I just don't see the point of
letting them watch that.
My husband believes that he is making sound judgement and that GI Joe is not
that bad (my son has the toys which I am okay with). He doesn't let them
watch adult violent shows, but to me GI Joe is pretty violent.
Do you guys think I am being overly controlling? Would you suggest that I
sit down with my son and daugher while they watch the GI Joe cartoons? From
reading previous posts, it seemed to me that many of you don't censor what
your children watch (but I got the impression you were talking about your
older children, too).
Any advice is appreciated.
Erika :)
_________________________________________________________________
Find a broadband plan that fits. Great local deals on high-speed Internet
access. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/
I have a question about televisilon and my children, who are ages 3 and 4.
I have relaxed a lot when it comes to television/videos and my kids watching
them. However, ever since I have started relaxing my husband has gone from
having them watch PBS to GI Joe cartoons (this is when I am at work in the
evening). It started out with PBS kid's shows, which I was very fine with.
Then it went to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles which I didn't really think was
age appropriate, but I let it go because my son loves it so much. Then they
started watching Fox Box which I have never seen, but I didn't say anything
about that either. But then he showed them GI Joe cartoons which for me
just seemed like too much for their age. I just don't see the point of
letting them watch that.
My husband believes that he is making sound judgement and that GI Joe is not
that bad (my son has the toys which I am okay with). He doesn't let them
watch adult violent shows, but to me GI Joe is pretty violent.
Do you guys think I am being overly controlling? Would you suggest that I
sit down with my son and daugher while they watch the GI Joe cartoons? From
reading previous posts, it seemed to me that many of you don't censor what
your children watch (but I got the impression you were talking about your
older children, too).
Any advice is appreciated.
Erika :)
_________________________________________________________________
Find a broadband plan that fits. Great local deals on high-speed Internet
access. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/
[email protected]
<< However, ever
since I have started relaxing my husband has gone from
having them watch PBS to GI Joe cartoons (this is when I am
at work in the evening). >>
"Having them watch"? He tells them what to watch?
If they're choosing on their own, you shouldn't worry. If your husband is
choosing for them, that's different. The way you worded it sounded chore-like.
Like someone "has you take out the trash."
<< I just don't see the point of
letting them watch that.>>
The point of letting children watch what they want to watch is to practice
genuine respect for their interests and decision making abilities. If they're
not choosing that's a different thing, but if they ARE choosing, then the point
of letting them is respect.
http://sandradodd.com/respect
That might encourage you.
<<Do you guys think I am being overly controlling?>>
Yes.
<<Would you suggest that I
sit down with my son and daugher while they watch the GI Joe cartoons?>>
No, especially not if you're going to sit there and critique it as an evil,
bad thing that would only be watched by evil, bad people without good judgment.
<< From
reading previous posts, it seemed to me that many of you don't censor what
your children watch (but I got the impression you were talking about your
older children, too).>>
The sooner you start, the better result you will have when they're older.
Don't set up a situation where they will be tempted to watch a program
precisely because you don't like it. That's the kind of parent/child dynamic you
want to avoid by letting them choose freely without coercion.
Sandra
since I have started relaxing my husband has gone from
having them watch PBS to GI Joe cartoons (this is when I am
at work in the evening). >>
"Having them watch"? He tells them what to watch?
If they're choosing on their own, you shouldn't worry. If your husband is
choosing for them, that's different. The way you worded it sounded chore-like.
Like someone "has you take out the trash."
<< I just don't see the point of
letting them watch that.>>
The point of letting children watch what they want to watch is to practice
genuine respect for their interests and decision making abilities. If they're
not choosing that's a different thing, but if they ARE choosing, then the point
of letting them is respect.
http://sandradodd.com/respect
That might encourage you.
<<Do you guys think I am being overly controlling?>>
Yes.
<<Would you suggest that I
sit down with my son and daugher while they watch the GI Joe cartoons?>>
No, especially not if you're going to sit there and critique it as an evil,
bad thing that would only be watched by evil, bad people without good judgment.
<< From
reading previous posts, it seemed to me that many of you don't censor what
your children watch (but I got the impression you were talking about your
older children, too).>>
The sooner you start, the better result you will have when they're older.
Don't set up a situation where they will be tempted to watch a program
precisely because you don't like it. That's the kind of parent/child dynamic you
want to avoid by letting them choose freely without coercion.
Sandra
J. Stauffer
<<<Do you guys think I am being overly controlling? Would you suggest that
I
You might also then sit down the dh and talk about your "tv values". Your
kids are likely to sit and watch whatever your dh is watching just to spend
time cuddled up with him. There are things that I only watch after the
younger kids are in bed. But if the kids found the shows on their own and
wanted to watch them, I wouldn't forbid it....would just want to watch it
with them, be available for questions, etc..
Julie S.
I
> sit down with my son and daugher while they watch the GI Joe cartoons? >>>A resounding "yes" to both questions.
You might also then sit down the dh and talk about your "tv values". Your
kids are likely to sit and watch whatever your dh is watching just to spend
time cuddled up with him. There are things that I only watch after the
younger kids are in bed. But if the kids found the shows on their own and
wanted to watch them, I wouldn't forbid it....would just want to watch it
with them, be available for questions, etc..
Julie S.
Erika Nunn
Sandra wrote...
"Don't set up a situation where they will be tempted to watch a program
precisely because you don't like it."
Sandra - I am not getting what you meant by this statement. And I really
want to! :)
It is not that my husband forces my kids to watch the shows, but he presents
the shows to them. I guess I am speculating that if he didn't present those
shows that they wouldn't have the option.
Also, I want to express all of my worries about these types of shows and
perhaps you (the group) could provide some feedback...I guess GI Joe to me
is a show with army guys who fight a lot. I am worried that if my kids
watch that show that they will grow up to be desensitized to that. I worry
that when they are adults and see violence on the news that it won't affect
them - they wouldn't see the reality of it. My husband says that in GI Joe
nobody ever dies. That just seems really strange too - what is that
teaching my kids? I am worried of what that show would do to my kid's
psyches....it just can't be good for them to sit and watch people shooting
each other for hours.
Honestly, I have always had a distaste for violence in movies and TV. I
don't understand how people can watch other people being hurt. That isn't
entertainment to me.
If your young children wanted to watch an adult-rated movie that was really
violent, would you let them watch it? Isn't it the role of a parent to make
sure that children are not exposed to this at too young of an age? What
about protecting their innocence while they are young?
Thanks,
Erika (trying really hard to get it) :)
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar � get it now!
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"Don't set up a situation where they will be tempted to watch a program
precisely because you don't like it."
Sandra - I am not getting what you meant by this statement. And I really
want to! :)
It is not that my husband forces my kids to watch the shows, but he presents
the shows to them. I guess I am speculating that if he didn't present those
shows that they wouldn't have the option.
Also, I want to express all of my worries about these types of shows and
perhaps you (the group) could provide some feedback...I guess GI Joe to me
is a show with army guys who fight a lot. I am worried that if my kids
watch that show that they will grow up to be desensitized to that. I worry
that when they are adults and see violence on the news that it won't affect
them - they wouldn't see the reality of it. My husband says that in GI Joe
nobody ever dies. That just seems really strange too - what is that
teaching my kids? I am worried of what that show would do to my kid's
psyches....it just can't be good for them to sit and watch people shooting
each other for hours.
Honestly, I have always had a distaste for violence in movies and TV. I
don't understand how people can watch other people being hurt. That isn't
entertainment to me.
If your young children wanted to watch an adult-rated movie that was really
violent, would you let them watch it? Isn't it the role of a parent to make
sure that children are not exposed to this at too young of an age? What
about protecting their innocence while they are young?
Thanks,
Erika (trying really hard to get it) :)
>From: SandraDodd@..._________________________________________________________________
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] TV content
>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:55:42 EST
>
><< However, ever
>since I have started relaxing my husband has gone from
>having them watch PBS to GI Joe cartoons (this is when I am
>at work in the evening). >>
>
>"Having them watch"? He tells them what to watch?
>If they're choosing on their own, you shouldn't worry. If your husband is
>choosing for them, that's different. The way you worded it sounded
>chore-like.
>Like someone "has you take out the trash."
>
><< I just don't see the point of
>letting them watch that.>>
>
>The point of letting children watch what they want to watch is to practice
>genuine respect for their interests and decision making abilities. If
>they're
>not choosing that's a different thing, but if they ARE choosing, then the
>point
>of letting them is respect.
>
>http://sandradodd.com/respect
>
>That might encourage you.
>
><<Do you guys think I am being overly controlling?>>
>
>Yes.
>
><<Would you suggest that I
>sit down with my son and daugher while they watch the GI Joe cartoons?>>
>
>No, especially not if you're going to sit there and critique it as an evil,
>bad thing that would only be watched by evil, bad people without good
>judgment.
>
><< From
>reading previous posts, it seemed to me that many of you don't censor what
>your children watch (but I got the impression you were talking about your
>older children, too).>>
>
>The sooner you start, the better result you will have when they're older.
>
>Don't set up a situation where they will be tempted to watch a program
>precisely because you don't like it. That's the kind of parent/child
>dynamic you
>want to avoid by letting them choose freely without coercion.
>
>Sandra
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar � get it now!
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[email protected]
In a message dated 3/22/2004 1:23:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
erikanunn@... writes:
If your young children wanted to watch an adult-rated movie that was really
violent, would you let them watch it? Isn't it the role of a parent to make
sure that children are not exposed to this at too young of an age? What
about protecting their innocence while they are young?<<<<<
My eight year old and I were watching Jesus Christ Superstar the other day.
We had listened to the CD a few days before, and I got the movie because he
asked me to. He knew that there were 39 lashes----he'd counted with Pilate on the
CD. But when the flogging was coming up, he asked to leave the room. Instead,
I just fast-forwarded through the flogging. HE KNEW he wasn't ready to watch
that!
We later discussed how they wouldn't actually whip an actor---that it was
just a special effect (in fact, during the overture, thre's a guy flogging the
plexiglass prop and making it bleed).
I *could* have made him sit and watch. I *could* have made him cover his
eyes. I *could * have never even brought the movie home. I *could* have done a lot
of things. But because he knew what he could handle, we did it *his* way.
Most children don't want to see people or animals hurt. Nor do they care to
watch sex scenes. They naturally shy away from both those things. Young
children who actively seek out those things may have other problems.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
erikanunn@... writes:
If your young children wanted to watch an adult-rated movie that was really
violent, would you let them watch it? Isn't it the role of a parent to make
sure that children are not exposed to this at too young of an age? What
about protecting their innocence while they are young?<<<<<
My eight year old and I were watching Jesus Christ Superstar the other day.
We had listened to the CD a few days before, and I got the movie because he
asked me to. He knew that there were 39 lashes----he'd counted with Pilate on the
CD. But when the flogging was coming up, he asked to leave the room. Instead,
I just fast-forwarded through the flogging. HE KNEW he wasn't ready to watch
that!
We later discussed how they wouldn't actually whip an actor---that it was
just a special effect (in fact, during the overture, thre's a guy flogging the
plexiglass prop and making it bleed).
I *could* have made him sit and watch. I *could* have made him cover his
eyes. I *could * have never even brought the movie home. I *could* have done a lot
of things. But because he knew what he could handle, we did it *his* way.
Most children don't want to see people or animals hurt. Nor do they care to
watch sex scenes. They naturally shy away from both those things. Young
children who actively seek out those things may have other problems.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
J. Stauffer
<<<<Isn't it the role of a parent to make
They can watch whatever they want. Occassionally, they choose somewhat
violent movies or off-color humor (My kids are 13, 10, 7, 5 and 4). The
vast majority of the time my kids choose to watch Nickolodean or Fox Family.
Currently the tv isn't even on.
Sometimes, my kids have chosen to watch something that has bothered them (a
scary movie or something). It made a big impression and now they are much
more selective.
If a kid is choosing to sit and watch hour after hour of grossly violent,
sadistic stuff. The problem isn't that the stuff is on tv. The problem is
that out of everything there is to do in the world, the kid is choosing that
stuff over and over. Why?
Julie S.
> sure that children are not exposed to this at too young of an age? WhatMy kids have complete and free access to ove 500 channels of television.
> about protecting their innocence while they are young?>>>
They can watch whatever they want. Occassionally, they choose somewhat
violent movies or off-color humor (My kids are 13, 10, 7, 5 and 4). The
vast majority of the time my kids choose to watch Nickolodean or Fox Family.
Currently the tv isn't even on.
Sometimes, my kids have chosen to watch something that has bothered them (a
scary movie or something). It made a big impression and now they are much
more selective.
If a kid is choosing to sit and watch hour after hour of grossly violent,
sadistic stuff. The problem isn't that the stuff is on tv. The problem is
that out of everything there is to do in the world, the kid is choosing that
stuff over and over. Why?
Julie S.
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/22/2004 1:23:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
erikanunn@... writes:
If your young children wanted to watch an adult-rated movie that was really
violent, would you let them watch it? Isn't it the role of a parent to make
sure that children are not exposed to this at too young of an age? What
about protecting their innocence while they are young?<<<<<
My eight year old and I were watching Jesus Christ Superstar the other day.
We had listened to the CD a few days before, and I got the movie because he
asked me to. He knew that there were 39 lashes----he'd counted with Pilate on the
CD. But when the flogging was coming up, he asked to leave the room. Instead,
I just fast-forwarded through the flogging. HE KNEW he wasn't ready to watch
that!
We later discussed how they wouldn't actually whip an actor---that it was
just a special effect (in fact, during the overture, thre's a guy flogging the
plexiglass prop and making it bleed).
I *could* have made him sit and watch. I *could* have made him cover his
eyes. I *could * have never even brought the movie home. I *could* have done a lot
of things. But because he knew what he could handle, we did it *his* way.
Most children don't want to see people or animals hurt. Nor do they care to
watch sex scenes. They naturally shy away from both those things. Young
children who actively seek out those things may have other problems.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
erikanunn@... writes:
If your young children wanted to watch an adult-rated movie that was really
violent, would you let them watch it? Isn't it the role of a parent to make
sure that children are not exposed to this at too young of an age? What
about protecting their innocence while they are young?<<<<<
My eight year old and I were watching Jesus Christ Superstar the other day.
We had listened to the CD a few days before, and I got the movie because he
asked me to. He knew that there were 39 lashes----he'd counted with Pilate on the
CD. But when the flogging was coming up, he asked to leave the room. Instead,
I just fast-forwarded through the flogging. HE KNEW he wasn't ready to watch
that!
We later discussed how they wouldn't actually whip an actor---that it was
just a special effect (in fact, during the overture, thre's a guy flogging the
plexiglass prop and making it bleed).
I *could* have made him sit and watch. I *could* have made him cover his
eyes. I *could * have never even brought the movie home. I *could* have done a lot
of things. But because he knew what he could handle, we did it *his* way.
Most children don't want to see people or animals hurt. Nor do they care to
watch sex scenes. They naturally shy away from both those things. Young
children who actively seek out those things may have other problems.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/22/04 11:23:22 AM, erikanunn@... writes:
<< "Don't set up a situation where they will be tempted to watch a program
precisely because you don't like it."
Sandra - I am not getting what you meant by this statement. And I really
want to! :) >>
Sometimes (often?) a child (especially older children who have a pent up
store of parental judgment and limitation) will do something for no other reason
than that the parents have advised against it. Either out of spite or
curiosity, he will see what could be so totally wrong about rock'n'roll or smoking or
staying out after midnight or eating ice cream for breakfast. Sometimes, if
it's spite, he will KEEP doing the thing, hoping subconsciously to do damage to
his parents by doing it. Some people get a tattoo not so much because they
can't imagine life without one, but because they KNOW it will burn their mom's
ass. For life.
So the first step in not getting to that point (even a little bit) with your
own children is to respect their decisions when they're small. When the
children are small and when the decisions are small. Marty wore a tiger costume
(just the stripey body-suit, not the hood or make-up) for most of a year. With
cowboy boots. Now years later Marty likes his head shaved. I wish he'd have
hair. But I let him make his own decisions about tiger suits and shaved
head, and when he's grown and out, he will not feel the urge to wear something
because it was forbidden (nothing was forbidden) or to express himself with hair
or lack thereof *FINALLY.* There won't be any relief of "finally I can make
my own decisions," which has resulted throughout history in TONS of profoundly
bad "decisions" made not consciously, but in plain reaction to what was
previously forbidden.
<<It is not that my husband forces my kids to watch the shows, but he
presents
the shows to them. I guess I am speculating that if he didn't present those
shows that they wouldn't have the option.>>
Your use of "has them," "presents" and "option" don't match my uses of them.
What options DO your children have with TV? Do they have to wait for an
adult to turn it on and "present" something?
<<Also, I want to express all of my worries about these types of shows and
perhaps you (the group) could provide some feedback...I guess GI Joe to me
is a show with army guys who fight a lot. >>
Don't guess. Either watch it or not. No fair guessing. <g>
<<I am worried that if my kids
watch that show that they will grow up to be desensitized to that. >>
Most new moms worry about that. Then they figure out it wasn't something to
worry about.
<<I worry
that when they are adults and see violence on the news that it won't affect
them - they wouldn't see the reality of it. >>
It's NOT reality. It's a story shown with drawings. There have been
drawings since cavemen. Do you think the cavement who drew hunts should have shown
more blood so younger hunters or children who saw that wouldn't become
desensetized to the reality of those chalk drawings?
<< My husband says that in GI Joe
nobody ever dies. That just seems really strange too - what is that
teaching my kids? >>
So you're set to be equally unhappy if people don't die as if they do?
<<Also, I want to express all of my worries ...I guess . . . I am worried . .
. I worry
That just seems really strange . . . I am worried ....>>
That was your long paragraph with the unimportant parts taken out.
You're worrying too much. Really.
<<it just can't be good for them to sit and watch people shooting
each other for hours.>>
G.I. Joe lasts less than half an hour. People on Ninja Turtles rarely get
shot unless it's with some fantasy raygun that does something weird to them.
On second thought, there are hardly any "people" on Ninja Turtles in the
first place.
<<Honestly, I have always had a distaste for violence in movies and TV. I
don't understand how people can watch other people being hurt. That isn't
entertainment to me.
Try not to impose your own prejudices on your children. If you can interest
them in what you think is fun, great! That's honest. But to try to forbid
what you don't like is not as honest.
Maybe watching TV isn't "entertainment" for them in the way you're thinking
of it. If you went to school when you were little, TV was probably escape from
that. They don't go to school. TV is part of life, part of learning, part
of new vocabulary and situations they can observe to wonder what they would
have done.
This weekend I watched two violent movies, The Art of War and The Recruit.
My husband had rented them. He watched them alone and then recommended that he
thought I would like them both, for unexpected plot twists. He was right. I
liked them. I didn't like the violence, but I liked the plots. And the
acting was good in The Recruit.
<<If your young children wanted to watch an adult-rated movie that was really
violent, would you let them watch it? >>
Yes, but in my experience young children didn't want to watch them. Or they
would watch a bit and then take off, or watch some and then snuggle with me
and ignore the movie. I didn't "have them watch" movies or "expose" them to
movies. Because values weren't put on movies they never watched what they didn't
want to watch. They watched what they wanted to do in such large part that
the idea of watching something they did NOT want to do was foreign.
<<Isn't it the role of a parent to make
sure that children are not exposed to this at too young of an age? What
about protecting their innocence while they are young?>>
We had TONS of happy, musical, sweet videos. Get more videos or DVDs to
watch with your kids if you want to preserve sweet innocence. We 'bout wore out
Raffi in Concert, and Barney's Birthday and Sesame Street specials of various
sorts. But Holly loved the movie Stand By Me when she was really little.
Three.
Younger kids don't get the extended innocence that firstborns can have. It's
just the way it works.
I was watching The Art of War and Holly came in and I paused it. She's 12.
She likes Fight Club; it's not that she has never seen violent movies. She
asked if it was a movie I thought she'd like and I said probably not. She said
she was going to go in the den and watch another movie.
After half an hour she came back, kinda bored, because she'd seen her movie
and she likes to be with other people. I paused it again. She asked about it
again. She said Maybe she should come and watch with me or maybe I should go
and watch with her. I said it had Wesley Snipes, the guy who was in To Wong
Foo. She laughed and said that's what she had paused downstairs--To Wong Foo.
Pretty funny. That one has some violence too. Not as much.
Have you looked at this TV collection? There will be more added, so if you
look today look back in six months or a year and there might be more.
http://sandradodd.com/tv
Sandra
<< "Don't set up a situation where they will be tempted to watch a program
precisely because you don't like it."
Sandra - I am not getting what you meant by this statement. And I really
want to! :) >>
Sometimes (often?) a child (especially older children who have a pent up
store of parental judgment and limitation) will do something for no other reason
than that the parents have advised against it. Either out of spite or
curiosity, he will see what could be so totally wrong about rock'n'roll or smoking or
staying out after midnight or eating ice cream for breakfast. Sometimes, if
it's spite, he will KEEP doing the thing, hoping subconsciously to do damage to
his parents by doing it. Some people get a tattoo not so much because they
can't imagine life without one, but because they KNOW it will burn their mom's
ass. For life.
So the first step in not getting to that point (even a little bit) with your
own children is to respect their decisions when they're small. When the
children are small and when the decisions are small. Marty wore a tiger costume
(just the stripey body-suit, not the hood or make-up) for most of a year. With
cowboy boots. Now years later Marty likes his head shaved. I wish he'd have
hair. But I let him make his own decisions about tiger suits and shaved
head, and when he's grown and out, he will not feel the urge to wear something
because it was forbidden (nothing was forbidden) or to express himself with hair
or lack thereof *FINALLY.* There won't be any relief of "finally I can make
my own decisions," which has resulted throughout history in TONS of profoundly
bad "decisions" made not consciously, but in plain reaction to what was
previously forbidden.
<<It is not that my husband forces my kids to watch the shows, but he
presents
the shows to them. I guess I am speculating that if he didn't present those
shows that they wouldn't have the option.>>
Your use of "has them," "presents" and "option" don't match my uses of them.
What options DO your children have with TV? Do they have to wait for an
adult to turn it on and "present" something?
<<Also, I want to express all of my worries about these types of shows and
perhaps you (the group) could provide some feedback...I guess GI Joe to me
is a show with army guys who fight a lot. >>
Don't guess. Either watch it or not. No fair guessing. <g>
<<I am worried that if my kids
watch that show that they will grow up to be desensitized to that. >>
Most new moms worry about that. Then they figure out it wasn't something to
worry about.
<<I worry
that when they are adults and see violence on the news that it won't affect
them - they wouldn't see the reality of it. >>
It's NOT reality. It's a story shown with drawings. There have been
drawings since cavemen. Do you think the cavement who drew hunts should have shown
more blood so younger hunters or children who saw that wouldn't become
desensetized to the reality of those chalk drawings?
<< My husband says that in GI Joe
nobody ever dies. That just seems really strange too - what is that
teaching my kids? >>
So you're set to be equally unhappy if people don't die as if they do?
<<Also, I want to express all of my worries ...I guess . . . I am worried . .
. I worry
That just seems really strange . . . I am worried ....>>
That was your long paragraph with the unimportant parts taken out.
You're worrying too much. Really.
<<it just can't be good for them to sit and watch people shooting
each other for hours.>>
G.I. Joe lasts less than half an hour. People on Ninja Turtles rarely get
shot unless it's with some fantasy raygun that does something weird to them.
On second thought, there are hardly any "people" on Ninja Turtles in the
first place.
<<Honestly, I have always had a distaste for violence in movies and TV. I
don't understand how people can watch other people being hurt. That isn't
entertainment to me.
>>AHA.
Try not to impose your own prejudices on your children. If you can interest
them in what you think is fun, great! That's honest. But to try to forbid
what you don't like is not as honest.
Maybe watching TV isn't "entertainment" for them in the way you're thinking
of it. If you went to school when you were little, TV was probably escape from
that. They don't go to school. TV is part of life, part of learning, part
of new vocabulary and situations they can observe to wonder what they would
have done.
This weekend I watched two violent movies, The Art of War and The Recruit.
My husband had rented them. He watched them alone and then recommended that he
thought I would like them both, for unexpected plot twists. He was right. I
liked them. I didn't like the violence, but I liked the plots. And the
acting was good in The Recruit.
<<If your young children wanted to watch an adult-rated movie that was really
violent, would you let them watch it? >>
Yes, but in my experience young children didn't want to watch them. Or they
would watch a bit and then take off, or watch some and then snuggle with me
and ignore the movie. I didn't "have them watch" movies or "expose" them to
movies. Because values weren't put on movies they never watched what they didn't
want to watch. They watched what they wanted to do in such large part that
the idea of watching something they did NOT want to do was foreign.
<<Isn't it the role of a parent to make
sure that children are not exposed to this at too young of an age? What
about protecting their innocence while they are young?>>
We had TONS of happy, musical, sweet videos. Get more videos or DVDs to
watch with your kids if you want to preserve sweet innocence. We 'bout wore out
Raffi in Concert, and Barney's Birthday and Sesame Street specials of various
sorts. But Holly loved the movie Stand By Me when she was really little.
Three.
Younger kids don't get the extended innocence that firstborns can have. It's
just the way it works.
I was watching The Art of War and Holly came in and I paused it. She's 12.
She likes Fight Club; it's not that she has never seen violent movies. She
asked if it was a movie I thought she'd like and I said probably not. She said
she was going to go in the den and watch another movie.
After half an hour she came back, kinda bored, because she'd seen her movie
and she likes to be with other people. I paused it again. She asked about it
again. She said Maybe she should come and watch with me or maybe I should go
and watch with her. I said it had Wesley Snipes, the guy who was in To Wong
Foo. She laughed and said that's what she had paused downstairs--To Wong Foo.
Pretty funny. That one has some violence too. Not as much.
Have you looked at this TV collection? There will be more added, so if you
look today look back in six months or a year and there might be more.
http://sandradodd.com/tv
Sandra
Robyn Coburn
<<Do you guys think I am being overly controlling? Would you suggest that I
sit down with my son and daugher while they watch the GI Joe cartoons? From
reading previous posts, it seemed to me that many of you don't censor what
your children watch (but I got the impression you were talking about your
older children, too).>>
Jayn (4) self-censors, as is the only person in the house likely to say, "I
don't want the TV on" for any reason. If something is scary she says so, and
leaves (dvd's we jump ahead) or covers her head until the scene is over. The
only show we switch off if she happens to come in while we are watching it
is "Real Sex" (HBO) mostly because I don't think I'm ready to answer any
questions she might have. Some of that stuff is pretty..um.. unusual.
Jayn's favorites shows are mostly cartoons like "Scooby Doo" (all
permutations), "Max & Ruby", "Dora", "Brum", "Hi-5" (TLC and Discovery),
"Kim Possible", "Book of Pooh" (puppets), "Mary Kate and Ashley In Action"
and "Toad Patrol". For live action she is starting to like "That's So Raven"
(Disney), "Sister,Sister", and "So Little Time" (Olsen twins on DVD). She
watches "Survivor", "ER" and "CSI" with us, and really enjoyed "Sex and the
City" (pretty ladies in pretty dresses was the attraction). She doesn't like
"Stargate SG-1" much, and will play off to the side when I am watching it.
Her DVD choices are all the princess stories from Disney, Angelina
Ballerina, assorted other Disney stuff (Mary Poppins, Studio Ghibli,
Atlantis), "Sailor Moon", and the three Barbie computer animated movies in a
rotating order of preference. The best thing is hearing her sing the theme
songs.
Robyn L. Coburn
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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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sit down with my son and daugher while they watch the GI Joe cartoons? From
reading previous posts, it seemed to me that many of you don't censor what
your children watch (but I got the impression you were talking about your
older children, too).>>
Jayn (4) self-censors, as is the only person in the house likely to say, "I
don't want the TV on" for any reason. If something is scary she says so, and
leaves (dvd's we jump ahead) or covers her head until the scene is over. The
only show we switch off if she happens to come in while we are watching it
is "Real Sex" (HBO) mostly because I don't think I'm ready to answer any
questions she might have. Some of that stuff is pretty..um.. unusual.
Jayn's favorites shows are mostly cartoons like "Scooby Doo" (all
permutations), "Max & Ruby", "Dora", "Brum", "Hi-5" (TLC and Discovery),
"Kim Possible", "Book of Pooh" (puppets), "Mary Kate and Ashley In Action"
and "Toad Patrol". For live action she is starting to like "That's So Raven"
(Disney), "Sister,Sister", and "So Little Time" (Olsen twins on DVD). She
watches "Survivor", "ER" and "CSI" with us, and really enjoyed "Sex and the
City" (pretty ladies in pretty dresses was the attraction). She doesn't like
"Stargate SG-1" much, and will play off to the side when I am watching it.
Her DVD choices are all the princess stories from Disney, Angelina
Ballerina, assorted other Disney stuff (Mary Poppins, Studio Ghibli,
Atlantis), "Sailor Moon", and the three Barbie computer animated movies in a
rotating order of preference. The best thing is hearing her sing the theme
songs.
Robyn L. Coburn
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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J. Stauffer
<<<<<I don't really believe in that and think 'innocence'
one, historically speaking. I don't think it was a concept in
say....Victorian England.....I can't imagine little Oliver Twist having his
eyes shielded from things.
I think part of it is the society we live in. In the not so distant past,
if you wanted to eat something, you killed it, butchered it, used the
intestines to stuff sausage, etc.. Your family all slept in the same room
and you had seen lots of animals having sex and probably your parents.
Animals died, people died....you might have a dead body lying in state in
your living room for a few days.
The world we live in now is quite different.
Julie S.
> is usually code for not talking to children about things that make adultsI agree. I think the concept of "innocence of childhood" is quite a new
> squeamish. It always assume childhood is some blessed state of happiness
> free from worry and stress. >>>>>
one, historically speaking. I don't think it was a concept in
say....Victorian England.....I can't imagine little Oliver Twist having his
eyes shielded from things.
I think part of it is the society we live in. In the not so distant past,
if you wanted to eat something, you killed it, butchered it, used the
intestines to stuff sausage, etc.. Your family all slept in the same room
and you had seen lots of animals having sex and probably your parents.
Animals died, people died....you might have a dead body lying in state in
your living room for a few days.
The world we live in now is quite different.
Julie S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dawn Adams" <Wishbone@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] TV content
> Erika writes:
> > "Don't set up a situation where they will be tempted to watch a program
> > precisely because you don't like it."
> >
> > Sandra - I am not getting what you meant by this statement. And I
really
> > want to! :)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> I think she meant that as soon as you put a show offlimits, that's all
> they'll want to watch. I did that with the Simpsons and my 5 year old.
Guess
> what was the only show she talked about during that short time? Now she's
> free to watch it and rarely does.
>
> > It is not that my husband forces my kids to watch the shows, but he
> presents
> > the shows to them. I guess I am speculating that if he didn't present
> those
> > shows that they wouldn't have the option.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> I think your husband probably wants to introduce shwos that he remembers
> fondly from childhood. I spent hours upon hours playing GIJoe with my
> brothers and thought the show was great.
>
> > Also, I want to express all of my worries about these types of shows and
> > perhaps you (the group) could provide some feedback...I guess GI Joe to
me
> > is a show with army guys who fight a lot. I am worried that if my kids
> > watch that show that they will grow up to be desensitized to that. I
> worry
> > that when they are adults and see violence on the news that it won't
> affect
> > them - they wouldn't see the reality of it. My husband says that in GI
> Joe
> > nobody ever dies.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Have you watched this show yet?
>
> That just seems really strange too - what is that
> > teaching my kids? I am worried of what that show would do to my kid's
> > psyches....it just can't be good for them to sit and watch people
shooting
> > each other for hours.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> The show is only a half hour. And there's not that much shooting. And it's
a
> cartoon. If they get desensitzed to cartoon violence, oh well. Honestly,
you
> have more influence over your kids then any TV show ever will.
>
> > Honestly, I have always had a distaste for violence in movies and TV. I
> > don't understand how people can watch other people being hurt. That
isn't
> > entertainment to me.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> I used to gobble up horror flicks. The more gore the better. And no, it
> wasn't because I liked seeing people get hurt. I was enamoured with the
> special effects. At one point in my teenage years I could name off all the
> important FX studios and artists (and I collected comic books and I was a
> girl. Definate geek.). I understood that it was a movie and nobody was
> getting hurt. So if I hissed, 'cooooool', after a head was parted from its
> shoulders it was in admiration of someone's skill with model heads.
Anyhow,
> I can't watch it like I used too. All the movies I used to watch didn't do
> diddly to desensitize me in the long run and the last horror flick I
watched
> had me covering my eyes.
> That isn't entertaiment for you, but it is for others...and not for the
> reasons you assume.
>
>
>
> > If your young children wanted to watch an adult-rated movie that was
> really
> > violent, would you let them watch it? Isn't it the role of a parent to
> make
> > sure that children are not exposed to this at too young of an age? What
> > about protecting their innocence while they are young?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> My daugher has watched Lord of the Rings (at her begging). Her favourite
> part is the darkest, the Mines of Moria. It's a pretty violent film but
> she's watched the making of documentries on the DVD so she knows what goes
> into making a Balrog or a good decapitation scene. How has it affected
her?
> Legolas is married to her apparently and we've had marathon discussions
> about good and evil. Has it harmed her innocence? I'm not the right one to
> answer that I think...I don't really believe in that and think 'innocence'
> is usually code for not talking to children about things that make adults
> squeamish. It always assume childhood is some blessed state of happiness
> free from worry and stress. Anyhow, off on a tangent. She's still the
sweet,
> caring girl we've always had. I haven't noticed her running about the
> neighbourhood slashing at the neighbours with a kitchen knife. :)
> I don't see my role as keeping my kids away from certain things, I see it
> as making sure they're equipped to deal with and make choices about those
> things.
>
> Dawn (in NS)
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Erika Nunn
In response to...
"<<Also, I want to express all of my worries ...I guess . . . I am worried .
.
. I worry
That just seems really strange . . . I am worried ....>>
That was your long paragraph with the unimportant parts taken out.
You're worrying too much. Really. -Sandra"
LOL....So you think I worry too much? You're right. I do. Thank you for
ever-so-gently pointing that out to me. :)
I told my husband that I had asked "that unschooling group" about the
situation. He said, "Well, I am sure I won't agree with all of their
responses." I told him that you all agreed with him. He was deliriously
happy. You all made my husband deliriously happy for a day.
Anyway, I have taken in all of your points and understand where you are
coming from. I was doing really well relaxing with the television until GI
Joe came out, and then I regressed for awhile. I was making it all about GI
Joe when it really wasn't. And you are correct about little kids not
wanting to watch stuff that is too scary for them. My kids always tell me
that they don't want to watch Daddy's "scary" movies from judging the
pictures on the cases. Also, the person that wrote in about how much they
used to love gory movies helped a lot. I have never understood people
watching them or anything violent for that matter, but her insight led me to
look deeper.
The other day my friend came over and told me that from now on her son was
not allowed to play in any sort of "violent" way. Like my son's toy Turtles
punching each other, etc. As soon as he heard his mother tell me that he
started playing in that way in a really obvious manner and watching for his
mother's reaction while she got more and more fed up trying to control the
toys he could play with (he is almost 5). Later that day the boy got more
and more out of control and ended up throwing something at our cat and
kicking over his food bowl (all the while watching his mother). She stated
that he "gets that way" after he has played with these "violent" toys. To
me it was plainly obvious that he "gets that way" from being overly
controlled.
Thanks,
Erika :)
_________________________________________________________________
Get tax tips, tools and access to IRS forms � all in one place at MSN Money!
http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/home.asp
"<<Also, I want to express all of my worries ...I guess . . . I am worried .
.
. I worry
That just seems really strange . . . I am worried ....>>
That was your long paragraph with the unimportant parts taken out.
You're worrying too much. Really. -Sandra"
LOL....So you think I worry too much? You're right. I do. Thank you for
ever-so-gently pointing that out to me. :)
I told my husband that I had asked "that unschooling group" about the
situation. He said, "Well, I am sure I won't agree with all of their
responses." I told him that you all agreed with him. He was deliriously
happy. You all made my husband deliriously happy for a day.
Anyway, I have taken in all of your points and understand where you are
coming from. I was doing really well relaxing with the television until GI
Joe came out, and then I regressed for awhile. I was making it all about GI
Joe when it really wasn't. And you are correct about little kids not
wanting to watch stuff that is too scary for them. My kids always tell me
that they don't want to watch Daddy's "scary" movies from judging the
pictures on the cases. Also, the person that wrote in about how much they
used to love gory movies helped a lot. I have never understood people
watching them or anything violent for that matter, but her insight led me to
look deeper.
The other day my friend came over and told me that from now on her son was
not allowed to play in any sort of "violent" way. Like my son's toy Turtles
punching each other, etc. As soon as he heard his mother tell me that he
started playing in that way in a really obvious manner and watching for his
mother's reaction while she got more and more fed up trying to control the
toys he could play with (he is almost 5). Later that day the boy got more
and more out of control and ended up throwing something at our cat and
kicking over his food bowl (all the while watching his mother). She stated
that he "gets that way" after he has played with these "violent" toys. To
me it was plainly obvious that he "gets that way" from being overly
controlled.
Thanks,
Erika :)
_________________________________________________________________
Get tax tips, tools and access to IRS forms � all in one place at MSN Money!
http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/home.asp
Inna Manni
Hi Erika,
It's funny that you are worried about "violence" of GI Joe and Ninja
Turtles, because those are very PC and super low on bloodshed & such.
They are really about friendship and loyalty and such. Princess
Mononoke has way more blood, death and sadness. Btw, my 2 yr old
daughter loves P.M.
What worries me in most TV programs is the way parents are portayed.
As clueless, prudish, set in their boring, dumb ways. The parents in
American made-for-children shows/movies Just Don't Get It. And the
mothers especially get the raw end of the deal.
And the shows/moves are generally about a male main character. And
then of course there are movies like Cinderella. About a pretty girl
who is just so sweet, kind and innocent, and completely unselfish.
And the poor thing is Forced To Do Chores! Of course she deserves for
a nice wealthy young prince to come and save her! And all the other
female characters are ugly, evil, selfish... I have to say,
Cinderella bothers me a lot more than Ninja Turtles or Princess
Mononoke, because of the values it teaches.
And, of course, when watching straight TV, one gets the commercials.
More portayals of dumb, boring, controlling mothers, and their
sugar-loving witty & cool kids... *sigh*
--Inna
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It's funny that you are worried about "violence" of GI Joe and Ninja
Turtles, because those are very PC and super low on bloodshed & such.
They are really about friendship and loyalty and such. Princess
Mononoke has way more blood, death and sadness. Btw, my 2 yr old
daughter loves P.M.
What worries me in most TV programs is the way parents are portayed.
As clueless, prudish, set in their boring, dumb ways. The parents in
American made-for-children shows/movies Just Don't Get It. And the
mothers especially get the raw end of the deal.
And the shows/moves are generally about a male main character. And
then of course there are movies like Cinderella. About a pretty girl
who is just so sweet, kind and innocent, and completely unselfish.
And the poor thing is Forced To Do Chores! Of course she deserves for
a nice wealthy young prince to come and save her! And all the other
female characters are ugly, evil, selfish... I have to say,
Cinderella bothers me a lot more than Ninja Turtles or Princess
Mononoke, because of the values it teaches.
And, of course, when watching straight TV, one gets the commercials.
More portayals of dumb, boring, controlling mothers, and their
sugar-loving witty & cool kids... *sigh*
--Inna
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Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
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Priscilla Martinez
Hi Inna!
I agree with your summary of typical female characters. That's the reason, with few exceptions, my kids really don't know the characters and stories most of us grew up with. As more examples, although I'm sure the list doesn't end here -- "The Little Mermaid," "Pocahontas," "Sleeping Beauty," "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs," to name a few.
I have one daughter and three sons and refuse to allow my daughter to be taught, if only subconsciously (which is arguably the most dangerous!), that she needs to be rescued/saved because she's a helpless girl. Likewise, I don't want my sons to expect that women are like that and that my sons' role is to come in and rescue/save them so women should be nothing but grateful because where would women be without them?! Then there's the whole issue with how parents are portrayed, as you mentioned . . .
So I try to model strong, female leadership in myself and in the women in my children's lives. And I guess it goes without saying that the historical women we study also were strong and played critical roles in history -- otherwise they probably wouldn't have survived history, right?! But when we talk about them, I make it a point to stress the challenges they faced, the inner strength they found to get through them, etc. Of course, I do the same with male role models, but they generally don't get short-changed by society!
Yeah, big sigh . . .
Priscilla
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day,
that my child may have peace."
Thomas Paine
(1737-1809, Anglo-American political theorist and writer)
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I agree with your summary of typical female characters. That's the reason, with few exceptions, my kids really don't know the characters and stories most of us grew up with. As more examples, although I'm sure the list doesn't end here -- "The Little Mermaid," "Pocahontas," "Sleeping Beauty," "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs," to name a few.
I have one daughter and three sons and refuse to allow my daughter to be taught, if only subconsciously (which is arguably the most dangerous!), that she needs to be rescued/saved because she's a helpless girl. Likewise, I don't want my sons to expect that women are like that and that my sons' role is to come in and rescue/save them so women should be nothing but grateful because where would women be without them?! Then there's the whole issue with how parents are portrayed, as you mentioned . . .
So I try to model strong, female leadership in myself and in the women in my children's lives. And I guess it goes without saying that the historical women we study also were strong and played critical roles in history -- otherwise they probably wouldn't have survived history, right?! But when we talk about them, I make it a point to stress the challenges they faced, the inner strength they found to get through them, etc. Of course, I do the same with male role models, but they generally don't get short-changed by society!
Yeah, big sigh . . .
Priscilla
"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day,
that my child may have peace."
Thomas Paine
(1737-1809, Anglo-American political theorist and writer)
---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
It's just the same in our house, except both sexes know and love ALL
the stories, including all the princesses and damsels, and it hasn't hurt a
thing! :)
Just today, DD14 came breezing through the room rhapsodizing over the
courtroom scene in Adam's Rib (Tracy/Hepburn) where Katharine Hepburn calls
various accomplished women to the stand. When she asks a particular witness to
start by listing her degrees, the woman replies, "The domestic ones, or did you
also want the European ones?" <g>
Did you and your daughters happen to catch the HBO dramatization of
American suffrage, "Iron Jawed Angels?"
JJ
ummhjm@... writes:
the stories, including all the princesses and damsels, and it hasn't hurt a
thing! :)
Just today, DD14 came breezing through the room rhapsodizing over the
courtroom scene in Adam's Rib (Tracy/Hepburn) where Katharine Hepburn calls
various accomplished women to the stand. When she asks a particular witness to
start by listing her degrees, the woman replies, "The domestic ones, or did you
also want the European ones?" <g>
Did you and your daughters happen to catch the HBO dramatization of
American suffrage, "Iron Jawed Angels?"
JJ
ummhjm@... writes:
> That's the reason, with few exceptions, my kids really don't know the[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> characters and stories most of us grew up with. As more examples, although I'm
> sure the list doesn't end here -- "The Little Mermaid," "Pocahontas," "Sleeping
> Beauty," "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs," to name a few.
>
> I have one daughter and three sons and refuse to allow my daughter to be
> taught, if only subconsciously (which is arguably the most dangerous!), that she
> needs to be rescued/saved because she's a helpless girl. Likewise, I don't
> want my sons to expect that women are like that and that my sons' role is to
> come in and rescue/save them so women should be nothing but grateful because
> where would women be without them?! Then there's the whole issue with how
> parents are portrayed, as you mentioned . . .
>
> So I try to model strong, female leadership in myself and in the women in my
> children's lives. And I guess it goes without saying that the historical
> women we study also were strong and played critical roles in history --
> otherwise they probably wouldn't have survived history, right?! But when we talk
> about them, I make it a point to stress the challenges they faced, the inner
> strength they found to get through them, etc. Of course, I do the same with
> male role models, but they generally don't get short-changed by society!
>
> Yeah, big sigh . . .
>
> Priscilla
>
J. Stauffer
<<< I have one daughter and three sons and refuse to allow my daughter to be
taught, if only subconsciously (which is arguably the most dangerous!), that
she needs to be rescued/saved because she's a helpless girl. >>>>
<<<And I guess it goes without saying that the historical women we study
also were strong and played critical roles in history -- >>>>
I'm sorry....I haven't been reading closely the last few days due to company
visiting.....but do you unschool? Just seemed like unusual wording for an
unschooling list so thought I would check.
Julie S.
taught, if only subconsciously (which is arguably the most dangerous!), that
she needs to be rescued/saved because she's a helpless girl. >>>>
<<<And I guess it goes without saying that the historical women we study
also were strong and played critical roles in history -- >>>>
I'm sorry....I haven't been reading closely the last few days due to company
visiting.....but do you unschool? Just seemed like unusual wording for an
unschooling list so thought I would check.
Julie S.
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/25/2004 6:19:43 PM Mountain Standard Time,
ummhjm@... writes:
Likewise, I don't want my sons to expect that women are like that and that my
sons' role is to come in and rescue/save them so women should be nothing but
grateful because where would women be without them?!
So do you avoid exposing them to real history, and go more toward
hand-selected non-sexist fantasy-history and revisionist versions of things?
I think that's MORE dangerous (no matter who's doing it or why) than just
letting them see plain accounts and real fairy tales, but telling them how things
have changed and why.
Pretending the world is quite other than it is is a dishonesty children can't
really benefit from. The advantage is temporary, I think, and could be
ultimately more frustrating.
In the early 70's when Ms. Magazine was new I was quite into the women's
movement. I volunteered in the first rape crisis center in my state. I had a
Woman Power t-shirt which Holly wears now (and to those who know me and Holly
personally: yes, I DID wear t-shirts "size S" in college). I nearly refused to
have anything to do with one young obnoxious Mr. Keith Dodd until he finished
reading Susan Brownmiller's book on Men, Women and Rape and discussed it with
me to my satisfaction.
Yet I'm grateful to that same sexist grew-up-without-sisters guy for many
services that only a big strong man can so easily provide for a smaller, less
able female. It's not unnatural. It's not evil. It's not something to shame
our sons out of, being strong and capable. Too many boys are being robbed of
their heritage and their birthright and their instincts. Isn't that one
complaint about the mistreatment of women? Their natural gifts were belittled
instead of glorified? Don't do that to your sons.
Anyone who is feeding children a revisionist line of culture, please
reconsider. Reality is more powerful than the fantasy of any mom. Children will live
in the world, not in mom's little world. Let them grow up respecting mom's
opinion and perspective, not having to recover from it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ummhjm@... writes:
Likewise, I don't want my sons to expect that women are like that and that my
sons' role is to come in and rescue/save them so women should be nothing but
grateful because where would women be without them?!
So do you avoid exposing them to real history, and go more toward
hand-selected non-sexist fantasy-history and revisionist versions of things?
I think that's MORE dangerous (no matter who's doing it or why) than just
letting them see plain accounts and real fairy tales, but telling them how things
have changed and why.
Pretending the world is quite other than it is is a dishonesty children can't
really benefit from. The advantage is temporary, I think, and could be
ultimately more frustrating.
In the early 70's when Ms. Magazine was new I was quite into the women's
movement. I volunteered in the first rape crisis center in my state. I had a
Woman Power t-shirt which Holly wears now (and to those who know me and Holly
personally: yes, I DID wear t-shirts "size S" in college). I nearly refused to
have anything to do with one young obnoxious Mr. Keith Dodd until he finished
reading Susan Brownmiller's book on Men, Women and Rape and discussed it with
me to my satisfaction.
Yet I'm grateful to that same sexist grew-up-without-sisters guy for many
services that only a big strong man can so easily provide for a smaller, less
able female. It's not unnatural. It's not evil. It's not something to shame
our sons out of, being strong and capable. Too many boys are being robbed of
their heritage and their birthright and their instincts. Isn't that one
complaint about the mistreatment of women? Their natural gifts were belittled
instead of glorified? Don't do that to your sons.
Anyone who is feeding children a revisionist line of culture, please
reconsider. Reality is more powerful than the fantasy of any mom. Children will live
in the world, not in mom's little world. Let them grow up respecting mom's
opinion and perspective, not having to recover from it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Inna Manni
Hi Sandra,
It's interesting that you chose to use genders. "Big strong man" and
"smaller, less able female" - and not "big strong PERSON" and
"smaller, less able PERSON". Because isn't that the real problem here
- that we are characterizing each gender as able and strong, or not?
I'm sure there are lots of big strong WOMEN out there, as well as
smaller, less able MEN. As a shorter, smaller (but NOT less able)
person, I have learned to find ways to get whatever I need done. But
I am completely at ease with accepting help, when it is available,
from someone bigger, stronger and taller than myself, whatever may
that person's gender happen to be.
I have also worked as a rape councelor when I was younger. And I have
read stories where men where raped by women. And it was precisely the
stereotype of "bigger, stronger, more virile, more able", that made
them ashamed and unable to deal with the fact that someone has hurt
them.
Yes, we live in a world filled with such stereotypes. And there is no
way to 'protect' our kids - and no reason for doing so - but we don't
have to partake in the stereotyping.
--Inna
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
It's interesting that you chose to use genders. "Big strong man" and
"smaller, less able female" - and not "big strong PERSON" and
"smaller, less able PERSON". Because isn't that the real problem here
- that we are characterizing each gender as able and strong, or not?
I'm sure there are lots of big strong WOMEN out there, as well as
smaller, less able MEN. As a shorter, smaller (but NOT less able)
person, I have learned to find ways to get whatever I need done. But
I am completely at ease with accepting help, when it is available,
from someone bigger, stronger and taller than myself, whatever may
that person's gender happen to be.
I have also worked as a rape councelor when I was younger. And I have
read stories where men where raped by women. And it was precisely the
stereotype of "bigger, stronger, more virile, more able", that made
them ashamed and unable to deal with the fact that someone has hurt
them.
Yes, we live in a world filled with such stereotypes. And there is no
way to 'protect' our kids - and no reason for doing so - but we don't
have to partake in the stereotyping.
--Inna
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
> Yet I'm grateful to that same sexist grew-up-without-sisters guy__________________________________
> for many
> services that only a big strong man can so easily provide for a
> smaller, less
> able female. It's not unnatural. It's not evil. It's not
> something to shame
> our sons out of, being strong and capable. Too many boys are being
> robbed of
> their heritage and their birthright and their instincts.
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/26/2004 10:04:27 PM Mountain Standard Time,
SpinFrog@... writes:
Yes, we live in a world filled with such stereotypes. And there is no
way to 'protect' our kids - and no reason for doing so - but we don't
have to partake in the stereotyping.
=======
Kirby and Marty are big and strong and male. They just are.
Theyhave one big strong female friend. She's also really feminine. When
trucks need to be loaded, Sadie's likely to be asked to help. Sadie is stronger
than some of the males in that group. The group of kids they hang out with
would nevver say "Let us males go and oad the truk while the females make us
lunch." None of them are that way. Two of the best cooks we know are men, and
the kids have known them since they were born.
Stereotyping is not as much a problem as it was when some of us were kids.
Going extremely reactionary doesn't help. It's just another irritation which
doesn't respect boys and men.
Destroying the self image of big strong boys and men doesn't help the image
of girls and women.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SpinFrog@... writes:
Yes, we live in a world filled with such stereotypes. And there is no
way to 'protect' our kids - and no reason for doing so - but we don't
have to partake in the stereotyping.
=======
Kirby and Marty are big and strong and male. They just are.
Theyhave one big strong female friend. She's also really feminine. When
trucks need to be loaded, Sadie's likely to be asked to help. Sadie is stronger
than some of the males in that group. The group of kids they hang out with
would nevver say "Let us males go and oad the truk while the females make us
lunch." None of them are that way. Two of the best cooks we know are men, and
the kids have known them since they were born.
Stereotyping is not as much a problem as it was when some of us were kids.
Going extremely reactionary doesn't help. It's just another irritation which
doesn't respect boys and men.
Destroying the self image of big strong boys and men doesn't help the image
of girls and women.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/22/2004 1:23:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
erikanunn@... writes:
If your young children wanted to watch an adult-rated movie that was really
violent, would you let them watch it? Isn't it the role of a parent to make
sure that children are not exposed to this at too young of an age? What
about protecting their innocence while they are young?<<<<<
My eight year old and I were watching Jesus Christ Superstar the other day.
We had listened to the CD a few days before, and I got the movie because he
asked me to. He knew that there were 39 lashes----he'd counted with Pilate on the
CD. But when the flogging was coming up, he asked to leave the room. Instead,
I just fast-forwarded through the flogging. HE KNEW he wasn't ready to watch
that!
We later discussed how they wouldn't actually whip an actor---that it was
just a special effect (in fact, during the overture, thre's a guy flogging the
plexiglass prop and making it bleed).
I *could* have made him sit and watch. I *could* have made him cover his
eyes. I *could * have never even brought the movie home. I *could* have done a lot
of things. But because he knew what he could handle, we did it *his* way.
Most children don't want to see people or animals hurt. Nor do they care to
watch sex scenes. They naturally shy away from both those things. Young
children who actively seek out those things may have other problems.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
erikanunn@... writes:
If your young children wanted to watch an adult-rated movie that was really
violent, would you let them watch it? Isn't it the role of a parent to make
sure that children are not exposed to this at too young of an age? What
about protecting their innocence while they are young?<<<<<
My eight year old and I were watching Jesus Christ Superstar the other day.
We had listened to the CD a few days before, and I got the movie because he
asked me to. He knew that there were 39 lashes----he'd counted with Pilate on the
CD. But when the flogging was coming up, he asked to leave the room. Instead,
I just fast-forwarded through the flogging. HE KNEW he wasn't ready to watch
that!
We later discussed how they wouldn't actually whip an actor---that it was
just a special effect (in fact, during the overture, thre's a guy flogging the
plexiglass prop and making it bleed).
I *could* have made him sit and watch. I *could* have made him cover his
eyes. I *could * have never even brought the movie home. I *could* have done a lot
of things. But because he knew what he could handle, we did it *his* way.
Most children don't want to see people or animals hurt. Nor do they care to
watch sex scenes. They naturally shy away from both those things. Young
children who actively seek out those things may have other problems.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dawn Adams
>If your young children wanted to watch an adult-rated movie that was reallyInnocence is something we impose on kids to keep them in their place and keep them cute for our viewing pleasure. Innocence is ignorance in a frilly dress in my opinion.
>violent, would you let them watch it? Isn't it the role of a parent to make
>sure that children are not exposed to this at too young of an age? What
>about protecting their innocence while they are young?<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Kids experience violence (my daughter throwing a shoe at my son). Kids explore their sexuality (my toddler playing with his penis). They aren't innocent of sex and violence at all and if we pretend they are by censoring things we're just...pretending. My two year old loves Lord of the Rings and does emulate the violence in it but always in the context of play and not anger. He bashes me with his foam sword when we're playing together...not when he's angry. The movies gave him a context for aggressive play but don't feed his aggression. So why should I not let him watch it?
You've made assumptions. One that TV violence is bad another that a parents role is to protect innocence. I think they're both wrong.
not sure if that made sense (toddler seemed to wake up every two hours so I'm beat today) but what the hey.
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/16/04 2:05:36 PM, Wishbone@... writes:
<< Innocence is something we impose on kids to keep them in their place and
keep them cute for our viewing pleasure. Innocence is ignorance in a frilly
dress in my opinion. >>
There are some stages of life that little kids don't need to know anything
about.
Innocence is as natural as any other progression in live and learning.
-=-Kids explore their sexuality (my toddler playing with his penis). They
aren't innocent of sex and violence at all and if we pretend they are by
censoring things we're just...pretending.-=-
A two year old playing with his penis isn't having sex. He's playing with
his penis.
-=-You've made assumptions. One that TV violence is bad another that a
parents role is to protect innocence. I think they're both wrong.-=-
There are levels of violence that are not fun for some people. Some people
have a very low violence threshhold and will claim a headache if they watch too
much Tweetie and Sylvester. Others are okay with Vietnam movies or horror
extravaganzas. Most fall somewhere in between.
I don't think all TV violence is to be avoided, or that it's evil, but I
don't think it's all equally hunky dory.
Sheltering people is okay. Someone was shot so close to my house that if I
had known it had happened I could have seen the body from the back gate.
Keith saw the police cars all out there the next morning. I was told the details
by someone who had to witness the scene for the DA's office.
I don't think telling my kids would have been cool. I don't think running up
there and looking would have been nice. I'm glad they didn't show 90 seconds
of close-up, scanning video on the news. That kind of sheltering is fine.
I think parents protecting innocence is fine, but too many people harm their
kids in the name of protection.
Sandra
<< Innocence is something we impose on kids to keep them in their place and
keep them cute for our viewing pleasure. Innocence is ignorance in a frilly
dress in my opinion. >>
There are some stages of life that little kids don't need to know anything
about.
Innocence is as natural as any other progression in live and learning.
-=-Kids explore their sexuality (my toddler playing with his penis). They
aren't innocent of sex and violence at all and if we pretend they are by
censoring things we're just...pretending.-=-
A two year old playing with his penis isn't having sex. He's playing with
his penis.
-=-You've made assumptions. One that TV violence is bad another that a
parents role is to protect innocence. I think they're both wrong.-=-
There are levels of violence that are not fun for some people. Some people
have a very low violence threshhold and will claim a headache if they watch too
much Tweetie and Sylvester. Others are okay with Vietnam movies or horror
extravaganzas. Most fall somewhere in between.
I don't think all TV violence is to be avoided, or that it's evil, but I
don't think it's all equally hunky dory.
Sheltering people is okay. Someone was shot so close to my house that if I
had known it had happened I could have seen the body from the back gate.
Keith saw the police cars all out there the next morning. I was told the details
by someone who had to witness the scene for the DA's office.
I don't think telling my kids would have been cool. I don't think running up
there and looking would have been nice. I'm glad they didn't show 90 seconds
of close-up, scanning video on the news. That kind of sheltering is fine.
I think parents protecting innocence is fine, but too many people harm their
kids in the name of protection.
Sandra
Have a Nice Day!
Innocence is something we impose on kids to keep them in their place and keep them cute for our viewing pleasure. Innocence is ignorance in a frilly dress in my opinion.
******************
Oh THANK YOU for saying this. And might I add that ignorance in *any* form is *dangerous*.
I have held off telling this story, but I will now.
Not long ago, while my 9 year old daughter and her cousins were sleeping in our cabin, a man snuck into their room and starting touching one of my nieces. My husband was asleep on the living room couch and I was at home sleeping in my own bed.
My daughter saw what was going on, had enough presence of mind to scare the guy off, then took herself and the girls out to the truck where she could lock the doors, and when she couldn't get hold of me, she used the cell phone to call the police and had the guy arrested. At the age of *nine*.
(She didn't see her dad sleeping on the sofa or she would have woke him up first :o)).
Amazing.
I didn't go out of my way to expose her to these possibilites in real life. I also didn't go out of my way to "protect her innocence". I *did* give her a lot of information as things came up in movies, tv programs, etc, and because she has friends who live in rough families.
As scared as she was, she knew what to do and *that* is what is most important to me.
Later we discovered this same guy had also approached my older daughter earlier in the evening and offered her alcohol and cigarettes if she would come with him in a dark corner in the woods behind the cabin.
Although she had been sneaking Mike's lemonaides that evening, she dumped the one out that *this* guy gave her because she thought it was odd that a grown man was offering her alcohol. Not only that, but she *kept* the bottle, and the police have it now. She also did NOT go with him to smoke that cigarette she wanted because she recognized the "weird feeling" she got and paid attention to it.
I think this demonstrates a few important things. First, my kids can talk to me because they aren't punished. I knew it was possible they were sneaking the alcohol and when I asked them about it, they were honest. I knew they snuck cigarettes too, because they told me. So they had nothing to hide in what they told me and no reason to embellish either.
Second, they were not overexposed or overprotected and they had as much information as they needed whenever they asked.
But most importantly, because they are allowed to say "no", they were able to recognize, acknowledge, and ACT on the strange feelings they got from an adult, and as a result they kept themselves and others safer from harm than they might otherwise have been.
Kristen
******************
Oh THANK YOU for saying this. And might I add that ignorance in *any* form is *dangerous*.
I have held off telling this story, but I will now.
Not long ago, while my 9 year old daughter and her cousins were sleeping in our cabin, a man snuck into their room and starting touching one of my nieces. My husband was asleep on the living room couch and I was at home sleeping in my own bed.
My daughter saw what was going on, had enough presence of mind to scare the guy off, then took herself and the girls out to the truck where she could lock the doors, and when she couldn't get hold of me, she used the cell phone to call the police and had the guy arrested. At the age of *nine*.
(She didn't see her dad sleeping on the sofa or she would have woke him up first :o)).
Amazing.
I didn't go out of my way to expose her to these possibilites in real life. I also didn't go out of my way to "protect her innocence". I *did* give her a lot of information as things came up in movies, tv programs, etc, and because she has friends who live in rough families.
As scared as she was, she knew what to do and *that* is what is most important to me.
Later we discovered this same guy had also approached my older daughter earlier in the evening and offered her alcohol and cigarettes if she would come with him in a dark corner in the woods behind the cabin.
Although she had been sneaking Mike's lemonaides that evening, she dumped the one out that *this* guy gave her because she thought it was odd that a grown man was offering her alcohol. Not only that, but she *kept* the bottle, and the police have it now. She also did NOT go with him to smoke that cigarette she wanted because she recognized the "weird feeling" she got and paid attention to it.
I think this demonstrates a few important things. First, my kids can talk to me because they aren't punished. I knew it was possible they were sneaking the alcohol and when I asked them about it, they were honest. I knew they snuck cigarettes too, because they told me. So they had nothing to hide in what they told me and no reason to embellish either.
Second, they were not overexposed or overprotected and they had as much information as they needed whenever they asked.
But most importantly, because they are allowed to say "no", they were able to recognize, acknowledge, and ACT on the strange feelings they got from an adult, and as a result they kept themselves and others safer from harm than they might otherwise have been.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Dawn Adams
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] TV content
>If your young children wanted to watch an adult-rated movie that was really
>violent, would you let them watch it? Isn't it the role of a parent to make
>sure that children are not exposed to this at too young of an age? What
>about protecting their innocence while they are young?<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Innocence is something we impose on kids to keep them in their place and keep them cute for our viewing pleasure. Innocence is ignorance in a frilly dress in my opinion.
Kids experience violence (my daughter throwing a shoe at my son). Kids explore their sexuality (my toddler playing with his penis). They aren't innocent of sex and violence at all and if we pretend they are by censoring things we're just...pretending. My two year old loves Lord of the Rings and does emulate the violence in it but always in the context of play and not anger. He bashes me with his foam sword when we're playing together...not when he's angry. The movies gave him a context for aggressive play but don't feed his aggression. So why should I not let him watch it?
You've made assumptions. One that TV violence is bad another that a parents role is to protect innocence. I think they're both wrong.
not sure if that made sense (toddler seemed to wake up every two hours so I'm beat today) but what the hey.
Dawn (in NS)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
There are some stages of life that little kids don't need to know anything
about.
Innocence is as natural as any other progression in live and learning.
*********************************
I agree with this too. I think it really depends on the individual child, and what their level of interest is and where they are developmentally.
There was a movie on one of the Encore channels once that had some very violent scenes in it. I didn't know that when I had it on. I was just watching it one afternoon out of boredom. Honestly, the scenes are still disturbing to me as I recall them. JUST when one of the first of these scenes was on my youngest daughter walked in, before I had a chance to turn it off. To this day I regret that either of us had seen it. It just wasn't necessary and it was total overexposure. And I felt awful that this was an image she would have in her mind for a long time, if not the rest of her life.
"Imposed" innocence to me is when we try to extend their innocent ignorance beyond what they want by not discussing things they want to discuss, and not exposing them to information (or tv programming if thats what they want) because *we* don't want to consider the possibility that they really might be ok with some of it, albeit with guidance and in a safe environment.
But I think that happens more when kids are thinking on a more conscious level than a 2 or 3 year old who happens to wander in while we are watching a disturbing movie.
Sometimes its a hard balance to walk. I *think* I've done ok but I know in erring on the side of freedom, that there have been times the kids have seen things I wished they hadn't because they are up later than I am and they have the tv on and I'm not there. On the other hand, we do discuss those things. They tell me about their feelings, and we talk about it. And thats when I can give them information, reassure them that they are safe, and help them empower themselves to stay safe in my absence.
Kristen
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about.
Innocence is as natural as any other progression in live and learning.
*********************************
I agree with this too. I think it really depends on the individual child, and what their level of interest is and where they are developmentally.
There was a movie on one of the Encore channels once that had some very violent scenes in it. I didn't know that when I had it on. I was just watching it one afternoon out of boredom. Honestly, the scenes are still disturbing to me as I recall them. JUST when one of the first of these scenes was on my youngest daughter walked in, before I had a chance to turn it off. To this day I regret that either of us had seen it. It just wasn't necessary and it was total overexposure. And I felt awful that this was an image she would have in her mind for a long time, if not the rest of her life.
"Imposed" innocence to me is when we try to extend their innocent ignorance beyond what they want by not discussing things they want to discuss, and not exposing them to information (or tv programming if thats what they want) because *we* don't want to consider the possibility that they really might be ok with some of it, albeit with guidance and in a safe environment.
But I think that happens more when kids are thinking on a more conscious level than a 2 or 3 year old who happens to wander in while we are watching a disturbing movie.
Sometimes its a hard balance to walk. I *think* I've done ok but I know in erring on the side of freedom, that there have been times the kids have seen things I wished they hadn't because they are up later than I am and they have the tv on and I'm not there. On the other hand, we do discuss those things. They tell me about their feelings, and we talk about it. And thats when I can give them information, reassure them that they are safe, and help them empower themselves to stay safe in my absence.
Kristen
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Aimee
<<Sometimes its a hard balance to walk. I *think*
I've done ok but I
know in erring on the side of freedom, that there have
been times the kids
have seen things I wished they hadn't because they
are up later than I
am and they have the tv on and I'm not there. On the
other hand, we do
discuss those things. They tell me about their
feelings, and we talk
about it. And thats when I can give them information,
reassure them
that they are safe, and help them empower themselves
to stay safe in my
absence.
Kristen>>
I have erred on the side of freedom too. ;-)
There have been a few things that Alex has seen that
he really would rather not have.
A couple of years ago he clicked on a link in a joke
type website that had you look at a innocent looking
picture of a kitchen, and then the Linda Blair image
from Exorcist flashes on the screen.
It really scared him, he started screaming. He hates
horror movies, shock value type stuff. I still wonder
what he thought was going to happen, I guess he didn't
think it through.
I spent quite some time talking to him about his
experience, how people LIKE that feeling of being
scared, how there was no warning because then it
wouldn't have the same effect, how it's an image that
was crafted in order to scare, but that it wasn't real
(it helped that I found pictures on the net of her in
the bed having makeup applied, with the camera
visible, and pictures of her without makeup, etc.)
I also gently reminded him that he chose to click on
that link, that we can't always be sure we'll be safe
from things that scare us, or worry us, online.
He is much more careful on the net. I remind him that
I can always check stuff out for him first, but he has
to take me up on that. He does put Yahoo! search on
safe mode cause he doesn't like anything sexual
either, and that's *rampant* on the net.
Sometimes I wish I could take that one moment back,
that was so traumatic, but I see, also, so much that
he learned from that experience.
It is definitely a balancing act. Even tho it is our
job to protect our children, we can't always do so.
Then our job is to help them heal and recover and
process the experience as best they can, and to help
them move on. I hope I did that.
He still remembers it tho, and will talk about it
every once in a while.
He will occasionally watch a very bad horror movie
with obviously bad special effects, with me, and we
laugh together about how stupid it is. lol Progress?
He still doesn't like scary movies, tho. He says he
doesn't like that feeling. But roller coasters are an
ok scary, sometimes. ;-)
~Aimee
I've done ok but I
know in erring on the side of freedom, that there have
been times the kids
have seen things I wished they hadn't because they
are up later than I
am and they have the tv on and I'm not there. On the
other hand, we do
discuss those things. They tell me about their
feelings, and we talk
about it. And thats when I can give them information,
reassure them
that they are safe, and help them empower themselves
to stay safe in my
absence.
Kristen>>
I have erred on the side of freedom too. ;-)
There have been a few things that Alex has seen that
he really would rather not have.
A couple of years ago he clicked on a link in a joke
type website that had you look at a innocent looking
picture of a kitchen, and then the Linda Blair image
from Exorcist flashes on the screen.
It really scared him, he started screaming. He hates
horror movies, shock value type stuff. I still wonder
what he thought was going to happen, I guess he didn't
think it through.
I spent quite some time talking to him about his
experience, how people LIKE that feeling of being
scared, how there was no warning because then it
wouldn't have the same effect, how it's an image that
was crafted in order to scare, but that it wasn't real
(it helped that I found pictures on the net of her in
the bed having makeup applied, with the camera
visible, and pictures of her without makeup, etc.)
I also gently reminded him that he chose to click on
that link, that we can't always be sure we'll be safe
from things that scare us, or worry us, online.
He is much more careful on the net. I remind him that
I can always check stuff out for him first, but he has
to take me up on that. He does put Yahoo! search on
safe mode cause he doesn't like anything sexual
either, and that's *rampant* on the net.
Sometimes I wish I could take that one moment back,
that was so traumatic, but I see, also, so much that
he learned from that experience.
It is definitely a balancing act. Even tho it is our
job to protect our children, we can't always do so.
Then our job is to help them heal and recover and
process the experience as best they can, and to help
them move on. I hope I did that.
He still remembers it tho, and will talk about it
every once in a while.
He will occasionally watch a very bad horror movie
with obviously bad special effects, with me, and we
laugh together about how stupid it is. lol Progress?
He still doesn't like scary movies, tho. He says he
doesn't like that feeling. But roller coasters are an
ok scary, sometimes. ;-)
~Aimee