Re: Blanket Judgments (was ...Christian family)
Brenda Rose
This is long...
When I began homeschooling in 1990 the VA county we lived in had an active
support group of about 10 families. There had been two Christian families
and one had moved, leaving one in the group. That had never been a problem.
When I and another lady (both Christians) met the Christian hs-ing mom, she
invited us to the group's meeting. The first time I went my chldren and I
enjoyed meeting other homeschoolers (at one of their homes). The children
played and I talked with some of the moms. At noon those who had been in
the group got out their lunches (we didn't know to bring anything) and began
eating. One lady asked me "Are you a vegeterian?" When I said no, she
immediately turned away and didn't speak again. The next week we went on a
hike with the group. Again, my children and I had a wonderful time and were
enjoying meeting experienced homeschoolers. It was a different group of
people than any we had known before, both because of the hs-ing and because
of different practices. On the hike several talked of homeopathy (which I'd
never heard of), and when we rested two women began breastfeeding (which I'd
done with all three kids for about a year), but they had children about 3 or
4. I wasn't too surprised as I'd heard of long-term breastfeeding, just
never seen it. When I went to the parking lot to get our lunch (I knew to
bring it this time!), I saw the leader of the group, the Christian "old"
member, and the other "new" member talking. The leader was saying that
there were several people in the group that didn't want "so many different"
people coming in because they might change things. One of the others asked
if it was because they were Christians and the leader said (rough quote),
"Well, no one really wants to put it that way. It's just that people have
different beliefs..." The old member said, well, maybe she could drop out
and help start a new group with the Christians. So that's what we did.
After that experience, we made sure not to make it an exclusive group. It
was interesting because as the years passed some of the other group's
members would come to our activities, especially field trips or play days.
I have never been in a group that made members agree to a statement of
faith. One group I was in started requiring that of leaders and I quit the
group. I agree with whoever (Sandra ?) said that if a group says right up
front who's welcome that's fine (such as a Catholic homeschoolers group,
etc.). But I think it would be nice if more people got along with others
and enjoyed the diversity that is homeschooling/unschooling rather than just
being with likeminded ones. I have always wanted to meet people who have
different beliefs, customs, and viewpoints, but I know that makes a lot of
people uncomfortable.
Sometimes it's hard being a Christian (who started out pretty
conservative but isn't so much any more) and a homeschooler (who started out
with curriculum, then got rid of the books and let the kids learn while
enjoying life).
Many area homeschoolers shun me as too liberal and not doing as a Christian
homeschooler should. I don't know any local unschoolers. Now my ds13 is
wanting to go to school next year. We went yesterday to the high school and
talked with a counselor. My dh says it's okay with him, but I think that's
just because he doesn't think that unschooling is good, so he'd rather have
ds go to school. I want ds to go if that's what he wants, because he wants
to see what it's like. He has plenty of friends (all schooled) and is
active in theater. He has also taught himself enough computer "stuff" (two
languages, sets up websites and creates games), so that a friend who teaches
CIS classes at a university has invited him to sit in on some jr and sr
level classes, because that's what ds is working on. So he's learning here
at home but he wants the experience of going to school. If that's what he
still wants in August, then I guess that's what he'll do. His two younger
brothers are still home. This probably knocks out a trip to the conference
in MA. I was hoping I might be able to go.
On top of all of this, I'm in my last semester of classes working on a
PhD in social foundations of ed. Why? I'm not really sure. What do I want
to do? Don't know yet. Helping people homeschool/unschool would be good,
but the more I learn (at school and on this list and other places) the more
I know I don't know. An early goal was to help bring unity to the hs
movement, but after reading various articles I don't know if that can
happen. And I do blame the "Christian hs movement" for that state of
affairs, although, to come full circle, some exclusiveness has been shown by
different groups at dif. times in dif. places. I hope that lessens as time
passes.
Peace,
Brenda Rose
When I began homeschooling in 1990 the VA county we lived in had an active
support group of about 10 families. There had been two Christian families
and one had moved, leaving one in the group. That had never been a problem.
When I and another lady (both Christians) met the Christian hs-ing mom, she
invited us to the group's meeting. The first time I went my chldren and I
enjoyed meeting other homeschoolers (at one of their homes). The children
played and I talked with some of the moms. At noon those who had been in
the group got out their lunches (we didn't know to bring anything) and began
eating. One lady asked me "Are you a vegeterian?" When I said no, she
immediately turned away and didn't speak again. The next week we went on a
hike with the group. Again, my children and I had a wonderful time and were
enjoying meeting experienced homeschoolers. It was a different group of
people than any we had known before, both because of the hs-ing and because
of different practices. On the hike several talked of homeopathy (which I'd
never heard of), and when we rested two women began breastfeeding (which I'd
done with all three kids for about a year), but they had children about 3 or
4. I wasn't too surprised as I'd heard of long-term breastfeeding, just
never seen it. When I went to the parking lot to get our lunch (I knew to
bring it this time!), I saw the leader of the group, the Christian "old"
member, and the other "new" member talking. The leader was saying that
there were several people in the group that didn't want "so many different"
people coming in because they might change things. One of the others asked
if it was because they were Christians and the leader said (rough quote),
"Well, no one really wants to put it that way. It's just that people have
different beliefs..." The old member said, well, maybe she could drop out
and help start a new group with the Christians. So that's what we did.
After that experience, we made sure not to make it an exclusive group. It
was interesting because as the years passed some of the other group's
members would come to our activities, especially field trips or play days.
I have never been in a group that made members agree to a statement of
faith. One group I was in started requiring that of leaders and I quit the
group. I agree with whoever (Sandra ?) said that if a group says right up
front who's welcome that's fine (such as a Catholic homeschoolers group,
etc.). But I think it would be nice if more people got along with others
and enjoyed the diversity that is homeschooling/unschooling rather than just
being with likeminded ones. I have always wanted to meet people who have
different beliefs, customs, and viewpoints, but I know that makes a lot of
people uncomfortable.
Sometimes it's hard being a Christian (who started out pretty
conservative but isn't so much any more) and a homeschooler (who started out
with curriculum, then got rid of the books and let the kids learn while
enjoying life).
Many area homeschoolers shun me as too liberal and not doing as a Christian
homeschooler should. I don't know any local unschoolers. Now my ds13 is
wanting to go to school next year. We went yesterday to the high school and
talked with a counselor. My dh says it's okay with him, but I think that's
just because he doesn't think that unschooling is good, so he'd rather have
ds go to school. I want ds to go if that's what he wants, because he wants
to see what it's like. He has plenty of friends (all schooled) and is
active in theater. He has also taught himself enough computer "stuff" (two
languages, sets up websites and creates games), so that a friend who teaches
CIS classes at a university has invited him to sit in on some jr and sr
level classes, because that's what ds is working on. So he's learning here
at home but he wants the experience of going to school. If that's what he
still wants in August, then I guess that's what he'll do. His two younger
brothers are still home. This probably knocks out a trip to the conference
in MA. I was hoping I might be able to go.
On top of all of this, I'm in my last semester of classes working on a
PhD in social foundations of ed. Why? I'm not really sure. What do I want
to do? Don't know yet. Helping people homeschool/unschool would be good,
but the more I learn (at school and on this list and other places) the more
I know I don't know. An early goal was to help bring unity to the hs
movement, but after reading various articles I don't know if that can
happen. And I do blame the "Christian hs movement" for that state of
affairs, although, to come full circle, some exclusiveness has been shown by
different groups at dif. times in dif. places. I hope that lessens as time
passes.
Peace,
Brenda Rose
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/16/04 4:43:12 PM, rosebl@... writes:
<< But I think it would be nice if more people got along with others
and enjoyed the diversity that is homeschooling/unschooling rather than just
being with likeminded ones. I have always wanted to meet people who have
different beliefs, customs, and viewpoints, but I know that makes a lot of
people uncomfortable. >>
Before I was homeschooling I was in a field trip co-op group called "Moms
With Something Extra," just a local thing someone had organized. It was
stressful for me and the kids when some kids could walk on a ramp and others' moms
said "stay on the stairs." Some kids could get out of line and play on the
grass, but other kids' moms said "stand right here and hold my hand." When we went
on a field trip to Pizza Hut, over half the moms said "no soda."
I dropped out of the group, because I didn't want to see the sad faces on
kids who couldn't do what my kids were doing, nor the mean faces on their mom,
nor did I want to squelch my kids' freedom just to make more uptight,
controlling families more comfortable.
I think that might be where it's hard to be with families that aren't
likeminded. I can't enjoy "diversity" that involves the unhappiness of children
whose movement and freedom and joy are limited "for their own good."
"Can't we all just get along" sounds good in theory, but will my kids have to
see toddlers spanked until they cry? What will it cost us?
Sandra
<< But I think it would be nice if more people got along with others
and enjoyed the diversity that is homeschooling/unschooling rather than just
being with likeminded ones. I have always wanted to meet people who have
different beliefs, customs, and viewpoints, but I know that makes a lot of
people uncomfortable. >>
Before I was homeschooling I was in a field trip co-op group called "Moms
With Something Extra," just a local thing someone had organized. It was
stressful for me and the kids when some kids could walk on a ramp and others' moms
said "stay on the stairs." Some kids could get out of line and play on the
grass, but other kids' moms said "stand right here and hold my hand." When we went
on a field trip to Pizza Hut, over half the moms said "no soda."
I dropped out of the group, because I didn't want to see the sad faces on
kids who couldn't do what my kids were doing, nor the mean faces on their mom,
nor did I want to squelch my kids' freedom just to make more uptight,
controlling families more comfortable.
I think that might be where it's hard to be with families that aren't
likeminded. I can't enjoy "diversity" that involves the unhappiness of children
whose movement and freedom and joy are limited "for their own good."
"Can't we all just get along" sounds good in theory, but will my kids have to
see toddlers spanked until they cry? What will it cost us?
Sandra
Robyn Coburn
<<nor did I want to squelch my kids' freedom just to make more uptight,
controlling families more comfortable.
I think that might be where it's hard to be with families that aren't
likeminded. I can't enjoy "diversity" that involves the unhappiness of
children
whose movement and freedom and joy are limited "for their own good."
"Can't we all just get along" sounds good in theory, but will my kids have
to
see toddlers spanked until they cry? What will it cost us?>>
This is exactly the reason why I am uncomfortable with Jayn�s friendship
with our neighbors. The mother pulls her kids by their ear, does punishments
and time outs, and I think spanks. Also she leaves Renee and her visitor and
little brother unsupervised in their room, and in the past problems of
jealousy and Jonah�s sense of having his space invaded have been left to
escalate into violence (child acting-out minor violence but still upsetting
to the kids). I have told Jayn that I can�t let her be at their house, and
it is hard to phrase the reasons to her in such a way that are not being
critical or unkind � nor do I really want anything I say to get back to the
mother. I still don�t like the girl much, although Jayn seems better able to
stand up to her bossiness. They see much less of each other now. My dh and I
have had to have a talk with her about not trying to bring Jayn in on her
sly plans to steal and hide candy � as she is not allowed to have sugar and
both Renee and mother have told us this. I am very uncomfortable both with
the idea of limiting food (why should Jayn have to be limited for Renee�s
sake) and yet I can hardly go against something the mother has specifically
demanded. Renee is overweight and I guess they are trying limiting to deal
with it. Her mother always asks if she has �behaved�. Of course she has.
Robyn L. Coburn
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controlling families more comfortable.
I think that might be where it's hard to be with families that aren't
likeminded. I can't enjoy "diversity" that involves the unhappiness of
children
whose movement and freedom and joy are limited "for their own good."
"Can't we all just get along" sounds good in theory, but will my kids have
to
see toddlers spanked until they cry? What will it cost us?>>
This is exactly the reason why I am uncomfortable with Jayn�s friendship
with our neighbors. The mother pulls her kids by their ear, does punishments
and time outs, and I think spanks. Also she leaves Renee and her visitor and
little brother unsupervised in their room, and in the past problems of
jealousy and Jonah�s sense of having his space invaded have been left to
escalate into violence (child acting-out minor violence but still upsetting
to the kids). I have told Jayn that I can�t let her be at their house, and
it is hard to phrase the reasons to her in such a way that are not being
critical or unkind � nor do I really want anything I say to get back to the
mother. I still don�t like the girl much, although Jayn seems better able to
stand up to her bossiness. They see much less of each other now. My dh and I
have had to have a talk with her about not trying to bring Jayn in on her
sly plans to steal and hide candy � as she is not allowed to have sugar and
both Renee and mother have told us this. I am very uncomfortable both with
the idea of limiting food (why should Jayn have to be limited for Renee�s
sake) and yet I can hardly go against something the mother has specifically
demanded. Renee is overweight and I guess they are trying limiting to deal
with it. Her mother always asks if she has �behaved�. Of course she has.
Robyn L. Coburn
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Have a Nice Day!
<<nor did I want to squelch my kids' freedom just to make more uptight,
controlling families more comfortable.
I have trouble being with families that are more controlling simply because
it makes *me* uncomfortable knowing they are judging me as a poor parent.
Maybe I'll get over that with time <g>. I know having this place to
exchange ideas really helps.
Kristen
controlling families more comfortable.
I have trouble being with families that are more controlling simply because
it makes *me* uncomfortable knowing they are judging me as a poor parent.
Maybe I'll get over that with time <g>. I know having this place to
exchange ideas really helps.
Kristen
Robyn Coburn
<<I have trouble being with families that are more controlling simply
because
it makes *me* uncomfortable knowing they are judging me as a poor parent.
Maybe I'll get over that with time <g>. I know having this place to
exchange ideas really helps.>>
I feel like this too, and this is one of the things I am working on in my
own personal growth program. I think I have come a long way, because I
recognize the urge to �do something� and ignore it (ie the urge) now,
instead of trying to change Jayn�s behavior (albeit nicely) unless she
really is driving people nuts. I find my idea of what is safe is not the
same as other peoples. I try to see myself as a good example for others (is
that really arrogant?) because it makes me stay relaxed with Jayn, despite
the subtle pressures of other parents around me. BTW never have any of these
particular bad feelings amongst the other hs�ers in my local group, just
schooling parents.
I have so much admiration for my husband who seems to just neither notice
nor care about other people�s judgments. He has said to other people
�that�s just where Jayn is right now�.
Robyn L. Coburn
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because
it makes *me* uncomfortable knowing they are judging me as a poor parent.
Maybe I'll get over that with time <g>. I know having this place to
exchange ideas really helps.>>
I feel like this too, and this is one of the things I am working on in my
own personal growth program. I think I have come a long way, because I
recognize the urge to �do something� and ignore it (ie the urge) now,
instead of trying to change Jayn�s behavior (albeit nicely) unless she
really is driving people nuts. I find my idea of what is safe is not the
same as other peoples. I try to see myself as a good example for others (is
that really arrogant?) because it makes me stay relaxed with Jayn, despite
the subtle pressures of other parents around me. BTW never have any of these
particular bad feelings amongst the other hs�ers in my local group, just
schooling parents.
I have so much admiration for my husband who seems to just neither notice
nor care about other people�s judgments. He has said to other people
�that�s just where Jayn is right now�.
Robyn L. Coburn
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Julie Bogart
--- In [email protected], "Have a Nice Day!" <litlrooh@e...>
wrote:
your kids (which can be a good thing). I remember my then three year old son running
away toward our camp room when we were at a missionary retreat. He was way ahead of
us when my husband called to him to stop and wait for us. While calling out to him, a very
strict mom walked by. (She had given me a baby shower where the primary gift was a
wooden spoon and instead of games, gave a "talk" about how to spank...)
When my son kept running, my husband called out, "Hey listen to me! I'm only going to
tell you two hundred more times to wait for us...." This woman stopped in her tracks. then
she looked at my husband and we both just cracked up. Noah beat us to our room,
naturally, where he got tickled by dad.
Since then, I've learned to cop to our very different way of parenting (even before
unschooling we were "slackers" compared to our homeschool world) with a sense of
humor. It helps when you can't avoid those more rigid contexts... and I've seen some
moms loosen up as if gaining permission from observing me and my kids...
Julie
wrote:
>A sense of humor sometimes bridges the gap and it also can model lightening up with
>
> <<nor did I want to squelch my kids' freedom just to make more uptight,
> controlling families more comfortable.
>
> I have trouble being with families that are more controlling simply because
> it makes *me* uncomfortable knowing they are judging me as a poor parent.
>
> Maybe I'll get over that with time <g>. I know having this place to
> exchange ideas really helps.
>
your kids (which can be a good thing). I remember my then three year old son running
away toward our camp room when we were at a missionary retreat. He was way ahead of
us when my husband called to him to stop and wait for us. While calling out to him, a very
strict mom walked by. (She had given me a baby shower where the primary gift was a
wooden spoon and instead of games, gave a "talk" about how to spank...)
When my son kept running, my husband called out, "Hey listen to me! I'm only going to
tell you two hundred more times to wait for us...." This woman stopped in her tracks. then
she looked at my husband and we both just cracked up. Noah beat us to our room,
naturally, where he got tickled by dad.
Since then, I've learned to cop to our very different way of parenting (even before
unschooling we were "slackers" compared to our homeschool world) with a sense of
humor. It helps when you can't avoid those more rigid contexts... and I've seen some
moms loosen up as if gaining permission from observing me and my kids...
Julie
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/16/04 7:16:15 PM, dezigna@... writes:
<< I think I have come a long way, because I
recognize the urge to “do something” and ignore it (ie the urge) now,
instead of trying to change Jayn’s behavior (albeit nicely) unless she
really is driving people nuts. >>
At this stage, I stay away from more controlling parents mostly for THEIR own
good, because I've come to say things like "Why don't you just let her play?"
or "She's not hurting anything." Not about MY kids, but about theirs. <g>
Sandra
<< I think I have come a long way, because I
recognize the urge to “do something” and ignore it (ie the urge) now,
instead of trying to change Jayn’s behavior (albeit nicely) unless she
really is driving people nuts. >>
At this stage, I stay away from more controlling parents mostly for THEIR own
good, because I've come to say things like "Why don't you just let her play?"
or "She's not hurting anything." Not about MY kids, but about theirs. <g>
Sandra
Robyn Coburn
<<At this stage, I stay away from more controlling parents mostly for THEIR
own
good, because I've come to say things like "Why don't you just let her
play?"
or "She's not hurting anything." Not about MY kids, but about theirs.
<g>>>
I have been known to ask �why?� when a parent has made some arbitrary
decision, like �that�s the last bucket of water�. The answer has usually
been a blank stare and a shrug. Also the children tend to ignore the parent
making the statement � even before I say �why?�.
Robyn L. Coburn
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own
good, because I've come to say things like "Why don't you just let her
play?"
or "She's not hurting anything." Not about MY kids, but about theirs.
<g>>>
I have been known to ask �why?� when a parent has made some arbitrary
decision, like �that�s the last bucket of water�. The answer has usually
been a blank stare and a shrug. Also the children tend to ignore the parent
making the statement � even before I say �why?�.
Robyn L. Coburn
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Have a Nice Day!
When my son kept running, my husband called out, "Hey listen to me! I'm only going to
tell you two hundred more times to wait for us...." <<<<<
LOL! I really like that. And I'm usually the one to think of such backward responses! I'm going to remember this one.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tell you two hundred more times to wait for us...." <<<<<
LOL! I really like that. And I'm usually the one to think of such backward responses! I'm going to remember this one.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]