Susan Van Cleave

I am new to this list and to unschooling. My kids are still relatively young (7,6,4,3,3). I was following a CM approach and have abandoned it for the second time. The first time my oldest was only 6 so I decided he would just be in kindergarten and I could leave his life unstructured. This time however, I'm feeling as though I need to make the leap of remaining unstructured forever.

My struggle: I'm having an identity crisis. Over the last 2 years I've gone from being very critical of homeschoolers to an unschooler. My discomfort has become more pronounced now that I am abandoning, so completely, many of my long held and strongly stated beliefs. I know with time I will become more comfortable with presenting myself honestly to the world but I am not there yet and am not sure how to become comfortable. I know much of my discomfort is disliking anyone not to approve of me. I would value any insights you can give me.

Also, what do your kids answer when people ask them what grade they're in or about school? My kids don't feel like we do school so are lost when strangers ask about it. Thanks again for your input.

Susan V

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fetteroll

on 2/5/04 10:29 PM, Susan Van Cleave at sdwvancleave@... wrote:

> I know with time I will become more comfortable with presenting myself
> honestly to the world but I am not there yet and am not sure how to become
> comfortable. I know much of my discomfort is disliking anyone not to approve
> of me. I would value any insights you can give me.

It's a matter of getting to a place where you don't need to defend yourself.
You just are who you are.

It's sort of a Zen thing so it's hard to describe! ;-)

Here's something I wrote a bit ago:

>> When we're put on the spot about our beliefs, we often feel we *need* to
>> enlighten someone. There's a driving force inside us that says we *need* to
>> make them understand so they can stop thinking bad thoughts about us and our
>> families and our choices.
>>
>> But if someone can let go of the emotions questioning stirs up -- not
>> necessarily not feel the emotions but let the emotions exist, accept them,
>> but detach ourselves from the control they try to weild over us -- a person
>> can get to a healthier place.
>>
>> If someone questions us we can choose to give them information or not
>> depending on whether it seems a useful use of our time or not. But if we can
>> accept that their emotions and reactions and mental place aren't ours to
>> control, we can be more at peace with ourselves. We can be at peace with
>> doing what we feel is right without taking on the burden of expecting the
>> world to change for us and because of us. We're releasing the information for
>> people to use as they will, not expecting a change in anyone in return. They
>> are where they are for a reason. We can give them the information to change,
>> but it isn't in our power to change them. It's entirely their choice to hold
>> onto the place they're in or seek out what they need to get to a new place.

Many people are not going to understand homeschooling. Fewer are going to
understand unschooling. If they wanted to, they'd reach out and ask
questions. When they attack someone who has the information they need to
change their ignorance to knowledge, they are protecting their own
ignorance. They're basically saying it's scary where you are and I don't
want that scariness to affect me, so I'm going to do what I can to defend
myself.

There's nothing we can do about that. They're making the choice to remain
ignorant. We can offer the information but we can't make them take it.

If we can let go of that need to make them take the information in so they
can understand us, we can let go of the need to defend ourselves.

> Also, what do your kids answer when people ask them what grade they're in or
> about school? My kids don't feel like we do school so are lost when
> strangers ask about it.

They can say "We're homeschooled. We don't do grades."

Or you can tell them -- if they're birthdays are in the summer! -- that to
figure out their grade they can subtract 5 from their age and say "We're
homeschooled but if I were in school I'd be in grade x."

You could tell your kids that when people ask what grade the kids are in,
they're trying to get some information they can relate to. Like if they know
someone else in that grade or if they have some memories of something that
happened to them in that grade. Ages aren't as useful for them because a 6
yo could be in kindergarten or 1st or 2nd.

Joyce

Diane

My kids say "We don't go to school--we're homeschooled!" But when asked
about what grade they're in, they just look at me. My plan is to tell
them grade=age+5 so they'll know the answer. And, yes, that means
they'll change grade in the middle of the "school year," but so what?
They're homeschooled, and I can do it that way if I want! What
difference does it make?

:-) Diane


Susan Van Cleave wrote:

>Also, what do your kids answer when people ask them what grade they're in or about school? My kids don't feel like we do school so are lost when strangers ask about it. Thanks again for your input.
>

Marjorie Kirk

Susan V wrote:


My struggle: I'm having an identity crisis. Over the last 2 years I've
gone from being very critical of homeschoolers to an unschooler. My
discomfort has become more pronounced now that I am abandoning, so
completely, many of my long held and strongly stated beliefs. I know with
time I will become more comfortable with presenting myself honestly to the
world but I am not there yet and am not sure how to become comfortable.


****************************************************************************
********
Susan,
Changing long held beliefs can be very painful, changing strongly stated
beliefs can sometimes be embarrassing, but if your beliefs have really
changed, you have to let your life follow that path. Maybe you could try to
be not so concerned with how you are "presenting" yourself to the world?
Why don't you just live your life the way you want to and let the chips fall
where they may? If friends ask about your change in outlook, just answer
honestly. It might sound like "I know I've been critical of homeschooling
in the past, but after reading and thinking a lot about it, I've decided
that it might be a good thing for my family." It might sound completely
different, it's up to you!
****************************************************************************
*********


I know much of my discomfort is disliking anyone not to approve of me. I
would value any insights you can give me.


****************************************************************************
*********
I can definitely relate to this! Most people probably can. People
generally want others to like and approve of them. Remember, though, that
no matter what you do, someone will disapprove of you. Also, think about
the people whose actions you don't "approve of". Do you really want their
approval? I know of many people who do things to or for their kids that I
don't agree with. Their approval of how I raise my kids is totally
irrelevant to me. Their values are totally different than mine.
****************************************************************************
**********



Also, what do your kids answer when people ask them what grade they're in or
about school? My kids don't feel like we do school so are lost when
strangers ask about it. Thanks again for your input.


****************************************************************************
**********
My oldest, when asked what grade he's in will generally answer with "We
homeschool. We don't do grades


Marjorie

J. Stauffer

<<<<My kids don't feel like we do school so are lost when strangers ask
about it. Thanks again for your input.>>>>

Well, then you are probably doing something right <grin>.

My kids vary on how they respond. The girls will usually answer with
whatever grade they would be in if they were in school (they keep up with
it. I usually have to ask them what grade to put on forms which makes
people turn and look at me funny <grin>).

My son says he doesn't go to school and when asked what he does all day, he
usually responds that he just watches tv......I think he just enjoys the
looks on people's faces because he watches less tv than probably most
schooled kids.

Talk to your kids. Give them ideas for things to answer. Just let them
answer whatever feels good to them. Most people ask kids about school
because they don't have a clue what to talk to them about or they don't know
them very well. After you have been homeschooling for awhile, people will
tend to know you homeschool, they will have been around your kids and know
they are smart, they will quit asking.

Julie S.

[email protected]

&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;My kids don't feel like we do school so are lost when
strangers ask
about it.&nbsp; Thanks again for your input.&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;



Someone on this list made a suggestion that my boys love and use.&nbsp;
Grades are for meat and eggs not children.
Pam G


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/6/04 6:36:32 AM, mkirk@... writes:

<< Changing long held beliefs can be very painful, changing strongly stated
beliefs can sometimes be embarrassing >>

That's true, and yet if someone was know to be firmly of a belief (like
school is necessary), when and if that person DOES decide different, their change
will be more significant than that of one who was never very particular or
invested.

(Unless the person is just known to glom entirely onto one thing and jump
like a flea to another sincere belief, but that's for each person's real-life
friends to gauge. <g>)

<< It might sound like "I know I've been critical of homeschooling
in the past, but after reading and thinking a lot about it, I've decided
that it might be a good thing for my family." It might sound completely
different, it's up to you!>>

When people say "But you used to be a teacher!" it's easy to say "Well then I
should know what's wrong with the schools." Sometimes they don't want a
well-considered response to their rhetorical question, they want a rhetorical
answer.

-=-I know much of my discomfort is disliking anyone not to approve of me. I
would value any insights you can give me.-=-

Change your focus from your feelings to your children's and it will be easier.

Will you discomfort your child DEFINITELY
in exchange for NOT discomforting someone you see occasionally POSSIBLY?

Will you trade your children's happiness
for your comfort?

The children are with you every day. They are depending on you to make their
lives as good as you can make them.

These relatives, neighbors, friends, strangers you're worried about are NOT
depending on you.

Don't compromise your children for the comfort of outsiders, and if you
consider the bond between you and your child to be a part of your motherhood, a
part of their childhood, then others are outsiders.

Sandra

Have a Nice Day!

i'm sure others will have good answers for you.

But your post reminded me of something that happened last week. We were signing up for cheerleading and one of the women asked what grade my youngest daughter (who wasn't along) was in so they knew which squad sheet they needed to check off.

ANyway, I couldn't answer right away. I had to turn and ask my 11 year old what grade the 8 year old was in LOL. I'm sure I must have looked like a total goof LOL.

Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Susan Van Cleave
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 10:29 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] identity shift


I am new to this list and to unschooling. My kids are still relatively young (7,6,4,3,3). I was following a CM approach and have abandoned it for the second time. The first time my oldest was only 6 so I decided he would just be in kindergarten and I could leave his life unstructured. This time however, I'm feeling as though I need to make the leap of remaining unstructured forever.

My struggle: I'm having an identity crisis. Over the last 2 years I've gone from being very critical of homeschoolers to an unschooler. My discomfort has become more pronounced now that I am abandoning, so completely, many of my long held and strongly stated beliefs. I know with time I will become more comfortable with presenting myself honestly to the world but I am not there yet and am not sure how to become comfortable. I know much of my discomfort is disliking anyone not to approve of me. I would value any insights you can give me.

Also, what do your kids answer when people ask them what grade they're in or about school? My kids don't feel like we do school so are lost when strangers ask about it. Thanks again for your input.

Susan V

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.

To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
[email protected]

Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]

c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn Coburn

<<<-=-I know much of my discomfort is disliking anyone not to approve of me.
I
would value any insights you can give me.-=->>>



I know how you feel, and have only recently �come out� as an unschooler with
my local group. If I start to worry, I remind myself that I am being a
little paranoid � most people are far too busy with their own lives to be
worried about mine. I�m just not interesting enough to be the subject of
gossip, at least not sustained gossip.



However what I sometimes do when questioned by people who are nice but
skeptical, such as my neighbor who is very fond of Jayn, is put it off onto
this list. (Heh, heh) What I say is that I didn�t make this stuff up out of
the air, but that this way of life has been shown to work by people with 20
years experience, whose children have grown up fabulous and intelligent, and
that it may be unusual but it is not unproven. I suspect the questioner�s
definition of �work� is traditional (ie go to college, get a job) but I know
it is working now for Jayn and us (a happy and mostly relaxed life) so I let
that go. I talk about how the life we are living now is an investment for
when Jayn is a teenager. I know that it is primarily about being happy and
fulfilled today, but other people are sometimes reassured that we are at
least thinking about the future.



Robyn L. Coburn




---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.567 / Virus Database: 358 - Release Date: 1/24/2004



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.567 / Virus Database: 358 - Release Date: 1/24/2004



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

pam sorooshian

On Feb 5, 2004, at 7:29 PM, Susan Van Cleave wrote:

> My struggle: I'm having an identity crisis. Over the last 2 years
> I've gone from being very critical of homeschoolers to an unschooler.
> My discomfort has become more pronounced now that I am abandoning, so
> completely, many of my long held and strongly stated beliefs. I know
> with time I will become more comfortable with presenting myself
> honestly to the world but I am not there yet and am not sure how to
> become comfortable. I know much of my discomfort is disliking anyone
> not to approve of me. I would value any insights you can give me.

Maturity will help, Susan. Seriously. Most of us just stop caring so
much about other people's approval. AND - your kids will help, because
you'll see what great people they are becoming and you'll develop an
inner confidence and other people's opinions will seem of lesser and
lesser importance. Focus on your kids. That's the insight that I can
offer. Be strong in that.

I went from PTA officer to unschooler - almost overnight!!! I know what
you mean about having an identity crisis <G>. But what hasn't changed
is your commitment to your children and doing what YOU think is best
for them.

>
> Also, what do your kids answer when people ask them what grade they're
> in or about school? My kids don't feel like we do school so are lost
> when strangers ask about it. Thanks again for your input.

I still have to count up on my fingers. Its okay. No big deal.Again,
you're caring what other people think. Just laugh it off saying: "We
don't keep track of grade levels anymore."

Its okay.
-pam

National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

Aimee

<< My discomfort has become more pronounced now that I
am abandoning, so completely, many of my long held and
strongly stated beliefs. >>

My advice is to take them one at a time, because
that's less overwhelming at first. What makes you
most uncomfortable? Pay attention to the language you
use, and the feelings that you have. How does that
serve you now, does it still work for you, and make
sense to you, or is it just habit?

But the other side of that, is, what first appealed to
you about unschooling? What is it that you liked so
much you really became ready to start letting go of
all those beliefs? Those are important guideposts.

The point here is to make it "your own", right?, and
that means reading, discussion, and thought, and lots
of time to do those things! It might mean that some of
what you read in a book or read on this list doesn't
fit quite right right away and that's ok. You have
identified a blindspot and that's good. Try not to
get judgmental and keep searching for *what it is* you
have a problem with. Someimes that is very hard to
do, read thru the archives and you'll see many others
struggle with it too!

<<I know with
time I will become more comfortable with presenting
myself honestly to the world but I am not there yet
and am not sure how to become comfortable.>>

My advice: Stay open to learning. Get used to not
knowing *all* the answers, but getting to know BETTER,
every day, what's right for you, and your kids!

<< I know much of my discomfort is disliking anyone
not to approve
of me. I would value any insights you can give me.>>

Oh, man, I know what that is like. lol My only
advice is, push thru the discomfort to stand up for
yourself, and you might do it poorly at first, but
that's ok, you don't know what you're doing yet! ( My
voice used to shake, and so did my hands!)

Practice! Do it with strangers, people you'll never
see again, and don't care (as much) about. Practice in
front of your mirror when your nervous about an
upcoming situation, or role play with your husband or
an understanding friend, whatever works. You'll start
to feel more confident as you pay more attention to
real life, and not "what they MIGHT think".

<<Also, what do your kids answer when people ask them
what grade they're
in or about school? My kids don't feel like we do
school so are lost
when strangers ask about it. Thanks again for your
input.>>

My son is ruthless. lol They ask, what grade are you
in and he simply says, "I don't go to school." He
usually gives them a look like, "Go ahead, ask me
another stupid question." lol

There's usually dead silence while the other person
tries to figure out how that could possibly be!

Sometimes it amazes us how ignorant people are about
homeschooling.

At this point, I usually feel sorry for the person and
I tell them his age, ( or he does) and that if he were
to be in school, he might be in 4th, but that he's
homeschooled, and that we don't measure his
intelligence in grades. There's usually more dead
silence at this point. lol

Anyway, just my POV about the subject line of your
post. I don't believe that changing your mind changes
who you are. You are always the same person, just at
a different stage of life and development.


~Aimee

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/6/04 12:38:25 PM, litlrooh@... writes:

<< one of the women asked what grade my youngest daughter was in . . .
ANyway, I couldn't answer right away. I had to turn and ask my 11 year old
what grade the 8 year old was in LOL. I'm sure I must have looked like a total
goof LOL. >>

I LOVE when that happens.

Sometimes one of my kids will know because one of their friends has made a
big deal of it for one reason or another (complaining about my kids having too
much privilege or something, usually) but most often, we all look at each other
like cows admiring a disco ball while a few seconds pass.

The other people must think we've all lost our minds.

When Kirby went to a prom with a dozen other kids, they were all seniors, and
his date told people variably "he's homeschooled" (which satisfied everyone)
or "He would be a junior but he's homeschooled." So it kept him from having
the taint of being a junior, I guess.

Holly and I spent the day at a prep school the other day that goes 6th to
12th grade. I was doing a project for a friend who teaches history. Kids were
asking Holly what grade she was in and she was saying "I don't go to school."
They asked if she was a buddy (a visitor or prospect attending with another
student) and she said "No, I'm with my mom."

It was fun. They just weren't stock answers. <g>

Sandra

[email protected]

One way to make critics feel better is to say "We're trying this for now."

If you say "We're going to see how this goes" they'll relax. Maybe they're
relaxing because they think yo're being cautious and that seems wise to them.
Maybe they're hoping really hard that it fails so you'll go back to something
they understand.

I remember when Kirby was six, seven, eight, saying to many former
teacher-friends and to relatives, "We're going to do this as long as it seems to be
working out!"

Hard to argue with a happy presentation of that!

Sandra