Barbara Moreda

````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
```````````````````
In fact I just washed some candy from halloween in a pillowcase LOL. they
didn't finish it. I had to rewash the whole load because it smelled like
candy, but at least it didn't get in the dryer! Stepheny

********
Glad it missed the dryer! YIKES!

It's really amazing ... my oldest is not a big candy eater. We would throw
away candy received at various holidays because it would be left uneaten. My
dh will eat anything that is in his reach ... even if the kids say, "Please
don't eat this" (like with the giant candy bars our neighbor gives our kids
each Halloween). My other two kids are like this as well ... will eat candy
until they get sick, almost. I think Michael did that the Christmas he was
2. And, RJ was the one who was limited the most and had the best diet as a
toddler ... the "first child" syndrome and all that. LOL

He is still my "healthiest" eater ... ate broccoli in the grocery store one
time, even.

Barbara

Barbara Moreda
Visit www.homeiscool.com for great deals on Usborne Books
Rent DVD's online through Mentura at www.homeiscool.com
Mommy to RJ (12/91), Michael (11/95) and Maggie (2/98)
mailto:homeiscool@...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stepheny" <stephc62@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] RE: Food Related


> Sandra said:
>
> The only kids I've ever seen finish ALL their candy are those whose
parents
> say "two a day." Those kids would eat something odious just to make sure
they
> got two. Whereas my kids have given away or thrown away up to half or
more
> of their Halloween candy just because it's not their favorite, and even
the
> favorite kinds will outlast Christmas and sometimes Easter.
>
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
```````````````````
> In fact I just washed some candy from halloween in a pillowcase LOL. they
didn't finish it. I had to rewash the whole load because it smelled like
candy, but at least it didn't get in the dryer! Stepheny
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
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http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
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>

Annette

Ok...I have to wonder something here...is this unschooling just a way to
say "Do whatever you want"?? I am very new to this theory and I just
need it clarified I guess. I am not even sure at this point this is how
I want to raise my kids. I read post after post about how you let your
kids choose what they want, when they want...I try to go with a very AP
minded philosophy. I feel it is very child led and gentle, but we
certainly have limits and boundaries and controls if you will on food
and media usage. Its just not healthy to eat junk food or candy. Its
just not healthy to sit and watch TV all the time. Its just not healthy
to let your kids do all this stuff, so why?? I am under the impression
that the child will eventually balance out and choose the "right" thing,
but how do they know what is right or wrong when they have been
submitted to all the commercialism on TV and all the junk in their
diets? As I stated in another post, I am pretty liberal about food
because I just cant limit my husband as much as I wish!! LOL But, I just
don't understand how this is helping and not hurting our kids in the
long run. It just seems to me that everyone should need to learn limits
and boundaries and who else will teach them? Please explain it to me as
if I was a kid! It would help me a lot.



Annette,Jason
& Our 3 Boujas
Nicolas, Joseph
& peanut due 1/12/04

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/8/2004 8:44:08 PM Mountain Standard Time,
boujamama@... writes:
-=-Please explain it to me as
if I was a kid! It would help me a lot. -=-

I've never tried to explain it to a kid. I think it can only be explained to
someone who has lived some life and thought quite a bit about their own
backgrounds, those around them, and who has been somewhat analytical of what
they've seen others attempt to do.

-=- But, I just
don't understand how this is helping and not hurting our kids in the
long run. -=-

There are good discussions of this at
http://www.unschooling.com/cgi/discus/board-newmessages.cgi, and I've saved some of it here (and more should be added
soon): http://SandraDodd.com/food

-=-It just seems to me that everyone should need to learn limits
and boundaries and who else will teach them? -=-

You don't learn to make decisions from having other people make your
decisions. That just teaches you to learn to obey without really understanding. When
people grow up that way, some of them quickly join the military, or find
friends who will tell them what to do, or marry someone controlling because they
haven't learned how to make their own decisions comfortably.

-=-I am under the impression
that the child will eventually balance out and choose the "right" thing,
but how do they know what is right or wrong when they have been
submitted to all the commercialism on TV and all the junk in their
diets?-=-

If there's only one "right" thing for you, you'll need to tell your children
what to do.
If you can relax to the point that you accept that perhaps there is a range
of healthy options, you and your children will probably be healthier and
happier.


-=- but we
certainly have limits and boundaries and controls if you will on food
and media usage. Its just not healthy to eat junk food or candy. Its
just not healthy to sit and watch TV all the time.-=-

My children don't sit and watch TV all the time.
They could, but they choose not to.

Your children cannot choose not to if you don't let them choose.

"It's just not healthy to eat junk food or candy" requires some examination
of "just" and "junk" before we could discuss it clearly.

It's probably healthier for a happy person to eat food of less nutritional
value than for an uptight person to eat the most ideal meal ever, ift hey eat it
with fear or resentment in their system. It's hard to digest with negativity
pumping through the veins.

Luckily those aren't the only two choices! There's a whole spectrum of
reality.

Please read my small collection on eating if you get time. I hope someday
it will be too long for people to read all at one sitting, but now it's really
short.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary

From: "Annette" <boujamama@...>

<< It just seems to me that everyone should need to learn limits
and boundaries and who else will teach them? >>




I'm going to borrow this sentence and redo the ending.

It just seems to me that everyone should need to learn limits and boundaries
and who else would know what's best for their bodies than the person
themselves? One can't choose what is best for another person. That's just
telling them what to do and that can build up resentments and lead to that
person just never being able to know for themselves. So they grow up looking
for others to help them out by telling them what to do. Or else go totally
the other way and create havoc in their lives by doing what they never were
"allowed" to do. And those people sometimes never see all that's in between.
I was one of those people who went crazy with freedom, couldn't find me and
ended up in a crappy "here's what I want you to do" marriage and inflicted
the same on one of my children. *That* isn't healthy. It took me until I was
well into my 30's and living with someone who wanted me to have a mind of my
own before I got it.

And I had no horrible childhood. I had loving parents, just ones that told
me always what was acceptable and best and right and wrong. And that
followed me through life for a long time. That's not what I want for my
kids. I want them to know what's best for them. It isn't always going to be
what I would choose, but that's a good thing. I'm not parenting little me's,
I'm parenting individual beings.



Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/8/04 10:44:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
boujamama@... writes:

> Its just not healthy to eat junk food or candy. Its
> just not healthy to sit and watch TV all the time. Its just not healthy
> to let your kids do all this stuff, so why?? I am under the impression
> that the child will eventually balance out and choose the "right" thing,
>

It seems you are assuming that, given choices, children will choose to eat
candy all day while sitting in front of the TV. That just isn't true in real
life. My boys have always had freedom to choose candy and TV and they are very
well balanced boys. I am not saying they never eat candy, but it sits there
for months, we still have Halloween candy here. They do watch TV but they also
love to play outside, go to play groups, play games, cook, read or be read
to, draw etc.

I have no research from unschooling families here to prove anything, just my
real life, wonderful boys. I am sure others have responded so you can add my
2 boys (6 and 9) to that list of children.
Pam G


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

melissa4123

--- In [email protected], Genant2@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/8/04 10:44:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> boujamama@f... writes:

<<It seems you are assuming that, given choices, children will
choose to eat candy all day while sitting in front of the TV. That
just isn't true in real life.>>

It's certainly not true in our life either. My DD dosen't even like
candy and refuses when someone tries to give it to her. She does
love popcicles but, we make our own and that's just frozen juice
so....is it really "bad" for her anyway? She does, however, love
chips, any kind of chips. There are lots of chips in our house but,
more often than not, she choses a banana or grapes rather than chips
to snack on. Especially when she sees me make a smoothie for
breakfast in the morning.....that's what got her started on the
bananas and strawberries, she wanted to try what I was eating.

As for the tv, she likes to watch cartoons in the mornings but, she
does this while running around and playing with her toys so it's not
her just sitting in front of the tv. In the afternoons she would
much rather be outside playing with her dog or riding on her "car"
than cooped up watching tv.

It seems to me that, for the most part, when people say that their
kid would sit around eating candy and watching tv all day (if they
gave them the choice to do that) they haven't tried it and are just
assuming that is what would happen. And, in the beginning, that
might be exactly what would happen but, in my experience, that only
happens in the beginning because they are testing to see how
resolved mom or dad really is to letting them make their own
decisions.

Melissa

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/9/04 7:38:20 AM, Genant2@... writes:

<< It seems you are assuming that, given choices, children will choose to eat
candy all day while sitting in front of the TV. >>

Yes, and the other side of that assumption is the assumption that the
children WOULD do all bad things all the time if it weren't for the virtue and hard
work of the mother.

That can't help but be a growing wedge between parent and child. If the
child is "good" by doing what the mother thinks went against the child's
instinct, that's a negative in the unschooling column (assumption that kids have wild,
unhealthy instincts).

I've encountered mothers online who believe they taught their children to
walk and talk, and so they can easily teach their children to read and write, and
MUST, or else the child will grow up illiterate, not knowing which end of a
pencil does what.

The easiest thing to do is such instances is to point out to them that
children learn to walk on their own just from having things to pull up on and a safe
space to try it (and kids will learn to walk even in the most dangerous of
places, truly), and they learn to talk because they WANT TO, and speech is all
around them, and they're smart enough to figure it out, including grammar and
levels of formality, if people just make sure they hear lots of people using
the language.

<<I am not saying they never eat candy, but it sits there
for months, we still have Halloween candy here. >>

The only kids I've ever seen finish ALL their candy are those whose parents
say "two a day." Those kids would eat something odious just to make sure they
got two. Whereas my kids have given away or thrown away up to half or more
of their Halloween candy just because it's not their favorite, and even the
favorite kinds will outlast Christmas and sometimes Easter.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/9/04 9:55:46 AM, melissa4123@... writes:

<< It seems to me that, for the most part, when people say that their

kid would sit around eating candy and watching tv all day (if they

gave them the choice to do that) they haven't tried it and are just

assuming that is what would happen. >>

I have a collection:

http://sandradodd.com/ifilet

Reading them all in one place, it's fun to try to figure out WHY people would
say that about their own children. It seems they're not looking directly at
their children in any way, but are looking out to the opinions of a million
unknown people. For unschooling, it helps to turn around and look at and into
your child, directly, without filters.

Sandra

Stepheny

Sandra said:

The only kids I've ever seen finish ALL their candy are those whose parents
say "two a day." Those kids would eat something odious just to make sure they
got two. Whereas my kids have given away or thrown away up to half or more
of their Halloween candy just because it's not their favorite, and even the
favorite kinds will outlast Christmas and sometimes Easter.
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
In fact I just washed some candy from halloween in a pillowcase LOL. they didn't finish it. I had to rewash the whole load because it smelled like candy, but at least it didn't get in the dryer! Stepheny


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary

From: "melissa4123" <melissa4123@...>

> It's certainly not true in our life either.>>


And if everyone here who has been unschooling awhile with no restrictions
would post, I'm sure one would see that it isn't the case at all for most of
us.

My kids don't sit in front of the tv all day. They have days where tv is
enjoyable for them and days when it isn't turned on. My girls enjoy sweets
and my son does not. I never worry about them getting too much because they
eat what they want and put the rest away. We too still have major Halloween
candy left. I know from experience it will still be here at Easter. Although
they enjoy cake, candy and cookies, they also have certain tastes where they
like only certain things. They don't gobble up anything with sugar just
because.

I guess I too could say it isn't healthy to sit in front of the tv all day
eating candy. But when I don't see that happening, it's not an issue. I'm
sure it would become one if I started to make rules about food.




Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com

pam sorooshian

On Jan 9, 2004, at 12:32 PM, Mary wrote:

> I guess I too could say it isn't healthy to sit in front of the tv all
> day
> eating candy. But when I don't see that happening, it's not an issue.
> I'm
> sure it would become one if I started to make rules about food.
>

Rosie, Roxana, and I are watching "Kiki's Delivery Service" (I'm kind
of half watching and half reading email <G>) and Rosie just ate a bowl
of oatmeal and is now eating a little chunk of cheddar cheese and
sunflower seeds while drinking a glass of water. Rox isn't eating. I
had oatmeal and coffee. There are home-made caramel apples in the
kitchen as well as a box of chocolate candy that has been sitting there
since before Christmas and I think I'm the only one who has eaten them.
There is a also a plate of baklava that was from before Christmas - my
husband had one last night. There are chocolate mint cookies someone
gave us before Christmas - in a bowl with a few little mini-banana
muffins. There is a bag of Jelly Bellies. With all the sweets sitting
around - they're going bad before we get around to eating them. Last
night we ate popcorn - no sweets except one piece of baklava that my dh
ate with his tea.

A few weeks ago Rosie got an urge for potato chips - she wanted a big
bag of them almost every day for about 2 weeks. So I got them - she ate
them - now she seems to have had her fill and hasn't asked again for
the past few weeks.

-pam
National Home Education Network
<www.NHEN.org>
Serving the entire homeschooling community since 1999
through information, networking and public relations.

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/9/2004 1:46:42 PM Mountain Standard Time,
mummy124@... writes:
=\=Although
they enjoy cake, candy and cookies, they also have certain tastes where they
like only certain things. They don't gobble up anything with sugar just
because.-=-

Marty's turning 15 soon. He's having people here Sunday and we offered to
buy pizzas. I offered to make him a cake. He was less enthusiastic, but
willing for me to make him a cake.<g> I don't cook much for fun, but I do bake
merrily and pretty well in the cake and cookie end. So I asked what kind of cake
in all the world he would want, kinda hoping for chocolate cake with orange
frosting.

Nope. Vanilla cake, white frosting.


BOOORRRING.

And he probably won't finish his own piece.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary

From: <SandraDodd@...>

<< Marty's turning 15 soon. He's having people here Sunday and we offered
to
buy pizzas. I offered to make him a cake. He was less enthusiastic, but
willing for me to make him a cake.<g> I don't cook much for fun, but I do
bake
merrily and pretty well in the cake and cookie end. So I asked what kind
of cake
in all the world he would want, kinda hoping for chocolate cake with orange
frosting.>>


I know what you mean. We just had Joseph's birthday and my mom was going to
bake a cake but my oven isn't working right so we had to buy one instead.
Joseph always wants chocolate cake. He didn't even finish his piece. It was
a small cake so we had some left. My mom took a piece to her place and we
had leftover here. Tara had a piece and I ended up giving my mom more. I
still have that leftover cake in the fridge. We also still have leftover
birthday cookie from his party with his friends. Just sitting on the
counter. I actually end up throwing away more sweets than we eat. We buy
because it looks good and the first piece is great and then everyone has had
enough.

Have fun ladies, I'm off to see Elvis!!!!!!


Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com

Andrea

I have a question I've been wanting to ask for a while.

We do not have restrictions on food. We had some until a couple of years
ago but really, I was careful to be easy-going about food becuase of the
food craziness I have had most of my life.

I think I only know one family in real life who are "unfooding" i.e. don't
have restrictions on food. I know a large group of relaxed homeschoolers or
unschoolers but they all seem to have food issues. Since we usually get
several chances to chat during the week, what can I say to get them to
consider unfooding? I am so sick of hearing them say "My daughter eats
sugar right out of the bowl and she would do it all day if I let her," or
"I have to watch Daisy like a hawk to make sure she doesn't eat all the
chocolate chips." And it bothers me to see the "treats" inhaled at communal
eating times because the kids know they better eat as much as possible
while they can. Now, I realize I mostly have to accept this, it will not
change, but I might get some to relax about it.

I have often talked about what we do and how well it works, and I have even
started to talk about how wonderfully it has worked for me, but I feel so
strongly about this I would like help with stronger (or just better :-)
arguments that may sway them.

Donna Andrea

Jon and Rue Kream

>>Please explain it to me as
if I was a kid! It would help me a lot.

**We were at a holiday party last Sunday. It was a brunch, with bagels
and latkes and applesauce (among other things), as well as chocolate
chip cookies and chocolate gelt. Dagny and Rowan, who have always been
able to eat what, where, and whenever they choose, ate bagels with cream
cheese and latkes. They played dreidel for the gelt, and when they were
done they just left it in a pile where they had found it without eating
any. Dagny had two cookies, and Rowan didn't want any.

Their cousin (who is four), on the other hand, only gets candy at home
if he unloads the silverware caddy in the dishwasher. His sugar intake
is closely monitored. They keep only 'healthy' food in their house
(with the exception of the 'chore candy'). He cannot have certain foods
at certain times of day, and there are foods he's not allowed to have at
all. They lift these restrictions at parties. He did not eat any of
the brunch food. He ate EVERY piece of gelt (maybe 25), chasing Rowan
through the house to get the last piece when she wanted to save it to
use for the dreidel. Every 15 minutes his father would say, "Are you
eating another cookie? How many cookies have you eaten today?" with an
uncomfortable little laugh. I'd guess he had 12-15 cookies in the three
hours we were there.

They're giving food a power in his life that it does not have for my
kids.

>>Its
just not healthy to sit and watch TV all the time.

**There's an assumption here that given the freedom to choose how they
spend their time, children will choose to watch TV all day while gorging
themselves on sweets. This doesn't seem to me a very kind (or accurate)
way to view our children. We have never limited content or quantity of
TV, and it's just one fun thing to do in a house (and world) full of fun
things to do.

>>I am under the impression
that the child will eventually balance out and choose the "right" thing,

**Never having been limited or controlled, my kids have always chosen
what's right for them. Who would know better than they what that is?
~Rue


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/9/04 3:13:30 PM, homeiscool@... writes:

<< He is still my "healthiest" eater ... ate broccoli in the grocery store one

time, even. >>

When Kirby was a toddler my mom and I went to the store with him. I thought
he was with her, she thought he was with me. I stood still and listened;
heard nothing. And I thought... Produce. He can reach food there.

He was reaching up and getting one grape at a time with each hand and eating
one, and then reaching up for another, very daintily. <g>

He didn't know he was lost, so it was only scary for me. I was able to act
cool when I got there so he didn't know anything scary had happened at all.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/9/04 4:49:25 PM, andrea@... writes:

<< I have often talked about what we do and how well it works, and I have
even
started to talk about how wonderfully it has worked for me, but I feel so
strongly about this I would like help with stronger (or just better :-)
arguments that may sway them.
>>

Is there a local newsletter or e-mail loop maybe?

I was just sent a cool local-list "testimonial" and I put it here:

http://sandradodd.com/eating/chocolate

MAYBE you could write a little article and send them the link to that or to
sandradodd.com/eating
and invite discussion on that list?

If there's no place to write something to them, maybe just pointing out that
your kids aren't cookie-hogs because they have cookies at home IF someone says
anything about it.

I know, sometimes the opportunity doesn't present itself. Then sometimes it
DOES. The receptionist at the orthodontist's the other day said, while Holly
was still out away from the desk said "She has the greatest little
personality! She's so outgoing."

I said thanks.

She asked when Holly got out of school, and I said she's homeschooled (in way
of indicating morning appointments were fine) and she started in about her
own daughter whom she homeschooled with a curriculum one year, and who is having
a hard time in high school and is really unhappy. She asked what curriculum
we used. I pulled up a business card to give her, told her we didn't use one,
that her daughter didn't need to go to school, that maybe she could just take
some classes at TVI (the local technical school, which gives college credit
for lots of classes, and certificates for lots more), and recover at home, read
and hang out.

Sometimes the opportunity jumps out there!

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/9/04 5:27:27 PM, skreams@... writes:

<< Their cousin (who is four), on the other hand, only gets candy at home
if he unloads the silverware caddy in the dishwasher. >>

When he's grown, just think how much candy he'll feel justified in eating if
he repairs a dishwasher, or puts away ALL the dishes and washes all the pans,
or what if he were to pour concrete in the yard or plant trees!? He would
earn POUNDS of candy.

(I say this because I have that mentality, deep down, that if I'm good I can
have candy, and THAT is not healthy.)

Sandra

J. Stauffer

<<<Sometimes the opportunity jumps out there----- >>>
*********************************************

I had posted a while back that our local "school-at-home Daddy-knows-best"
support group asked me to speak about unschooling on a panel of various
types of homeschoolers.

I was a little concerned. Normally, I would have just stood up and spoken
without any forethought....but this time I even made an outline. I was
concerned about talking about why I don't use curriculum without offending
people who do, yet also keeping the door open.

At question and answer time, no one asked me a question at all. After the
meeting, 2 people met me in the hall. I felt like the French Resistance but
it was nice to know that some people at least heard what I was trying to
say.

Julie S.

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/9/04 7:50:45 PM, jnjstau@... writes:

<< At question and answer time, no one asked me a question at all. After the

meeting, 2 people met me in the hall. >>

Met you in the hall in a GOOD way?

It's interesting, sometimes, that a presentation can seem to fall flat, but
six months or a year later you might hear form some of them, saying "I thought
you were full of it, but the things you said started speaking to me, and now I
have some questions for you."

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/9/2004 9:05:41 PM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


> It's interesting, sometimes, that a presentation can seem to fall flat, but
>
> six months or a year later you might hear form some of them, saying "I
> thought
> you were full of it, but the things you said started speaking to me, and now
> I
> have some questions for you."
>

And in a year from now when they are at their wits end they will know who to
call.
Laura Buoni


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

J. Stauffer

<<<Met you in the hall in a GOOD way?<<<
******************************************

Oh yes. Lots of questions (mainly about the terrible TV addiction that
appears to be epidemic among these people's children <grin>)

Several people emailed me today to thank me for the talk, saying they
enjoyed it.

When I got to the meeting, I heard someone behind me whispering "Oh look,
she's the unschooler." I turned around and it was a teenaged boy who was in
the unschooled Shakespeare production me and some kids did last year. I
laughed, he laughed (He would love to unschool but his mom just can't get
there)...He assured me I was going to have my head handed to me....but it
was all quite nice actually.

Julie S.

[email protected]

In a message dated Fri Jan 9, 2004 3:36 pm, andrea@n... writes:


>>>>I know a large group of relaxed homeschoolers or unschoolers but
they all seem to have food issues. Since we usually get several
chances to chat during the week, what can I say to get them to
consider unfooding?>>>>>

>>>>I have often talked about what we do and how well it works, and I
have evenstarted to talk about how wonderfully it has worked for me,
but I feel sostrongly about this I would like help with stronger (or
just better :-) arguments that may sway them.>>>>>>

Why not use the words of the "experts"? I have a unschooling info
distribution list of some local friends that I periodically e-mail
the really good stuff to from this list, AlwaysLearning and
unschooling.com message boards. When I get the chance to chat with
someone who I think would be open to a more enlightened <g> way, I
ask if they would like me to add them to my list.

This happened just last Friday. A mom and I were talking about math
stuff and I asked if she wanted to hear more. I sent her this from
Sandra:


The difference between a child figuring out math, odd statistics,
and patterns on their own as opposed to someone droning on about them
is the difference between a live butterfly in and out of flowers in
your yard, going on to who knows where, doing exactly what he was
born to do, and a dead butterfly pinned on a piece of cardboard.
Don't kill math to capture it. You end up capturing boredom and
frustration and aversion.
-Sandra Dodd



and today I got an e-mail from her that said, "Send me more."

Looking in my Sent box, some of the gems I have passed on are:

"You could grow up to be President" by Sandra Dodd
at http://sandradodd.com/articles
Message 86355 by Pam on Unschooling Math
and that great message about chores by DebL and her wine

And lots of stuff by Joyce as well.

Mercedes
who thanks all these wise women for their contributions to her
family's happiness. . . . .