[email protected]

In a message dated 11/17/2003 7:18:34 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
I think it might be hard work to
remove independent thinking from a child.<<<<


I don't know. Seems as if the schools do a damned good job of it!

~Kelly


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[email protected]

In a message dated 11/17/03 6:23:54 AM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:

<< I think it might be hard work to
remove independent thinking from a child.<<<<

<<I don't know. Seems as if the schools do a damned good job of it!
>>

Yes, but it takes PROFESSIONALS. Skilled, highly-trained educators.
Sure they have textbooks to help them, and the other kids fall right into
hammering down the shiny spikes of independent thought, but that doesn't mean
it's EASY. There's a whole curriculum!!

Sandra

[email protected]

hi, my name is pat and i am new to homeschooling/unschooling and to this
website. i been reading for about a week to get a feel of everything. i agree
totally with what you said, that school's take away independant thinking. i have
twin boys, that are 11 that i decided to homechool this year because of that
reason. i watched my 2 sons, who had the most amazing imaginations and great
self-esteem have both slowly wilted away by school. one i have shared this with
people they ask, well do your boysdo poorly in school, bad grades, thinking
that that is the only way a child can be effected by school. these same people
are always amazed when i say no in fact they usually got straight A,s or A,s and
one B. it is their independance, their ability to think outside the box,
their willingness to take chances and to do something with out looking for
constant approval or wanting to know if they are doing it the"right "way, that made
me realize how much they had had taken from them. i am now encouraging them to
try different things, fiqure out what you are truly interested in and that
they don't have to make it the same for bothof them. i also have ayounger son,
who just turned 5. I feel like i am learnig new things every day and that your
website has helped me look at many things in a different lite. it has
definitely helped with my understanding of unschooling. i had wanted to
unschool/homeschool 4 years ago but my youngest was a baby and my husband thought it would
be way too much,so i decided not to. at the time the twins were happy in
school and seemed to be doing well, but it was always in the back of my mind. every
time i went to the library i would pick up the copy of homeschooling magazine
and read it from cover to cover. i feel so blessed that i finally am doing
this, i just wish that i had done it years ago. my one big question i have is
how to you have the kids work evaluated at the end of the year, or how what do
you put in a portfolio so that you get a letter from a teacher saying that they
have made progress. i would appreciate any ideas to help me with this because
this is the thing that i am concerned about . thank you for taking the time
to read this and to answer me. pat


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Robyn Coburn

Pat, what state are you in? The requirements differ hugely from state to
state.

Robyn L. Coburn









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[email protected]

i am in ohio. i know that i have to either have them take some type of state
testing . like the iowa's or have someon look at a portfolio of their work. i
will not have them do the testing so that leaves the porfolio. any suggestions
you could give me would be greatly appreciated. thanks, pat


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Danielle E. Conger

>i will not have them do the testing so that leaves the porfolio. any
>suggestions
>you could give me would be greatly appreciated. thanks, pat

Hi Pat,

I'm not sure you mentioned your kids' ages, so our situations may not be
all that similar. I have a 6 yo (who would be 1st grade), an almost 5 and a
3 yo. I dealt with portfolio reviews through my county last year (for
Kindergarten), and my next scheduled review is early January. We do twice
a year in Maryland, and I can tell you that it differs quite a bit here
from county to county and even reviewer to reviewer.

I agree with you on the no testing, if you have any say. That's a situation
that you absolutely don't want to set up.

People I know approach the review process in a couple of different ways.
Some folks take lots of pictures and document their learning that way.
Other folks go in with the idea of overwhelming the reviewer with
stuff--just bring anything and everything that's of value (in the
reviewer's eyes). In the county north of me, there is a drop-off system,
which I would just hate! You drop off your portfolio and pick it up with
teacher comments on it. That would really fire me up, like I was being
graded with no chance to comment or explain. GRRRRRR!

My situation is a bit different, for better or for worse. My husband and I
both have PhD's, so I went in with the attitude of knowing far more than
they do. I tossed a couple of things at my reviewer like Bose-Einstein
condensation, and before she knew it, her head was spinning. I think that
most homeschoolers could adopt this tact if they chose to (I did this, btw,
in a very friendly and non-aggressive way). Homeschoolers learn about so
many interesting things in such depth that there's a very good chance that
we know more than ps reviewers about many things. Actually documenting
stuff in a portfolio is kinda difficult for me as an unschooler, which is
why I would really hate not having a face to face interview. I can talk
about all kinds of things that make it quite clear my kids have been
exposed to interesting things and have learned a great deal even if it's
not documented. This past year, my reviewer was fine with the fact that ALL
of our math and science were hands on, because I was able to describe the
kinds of things we did.

I'm wondering right now how this will play out in the higher grades. I'm
figuring that I will end up switching to an umbrella school that is more
friendly to unschoolers. This is an option in Maryland, kind of like
enrolling in a private school.

I don't know if this was helpful or if it was what you were looking for.
I'd be happy to try to answer more specific questions if you have any.

--danielle


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Norma

--- In [email protected], mirindia4@a... wrote:
<>i am in ohio. i know that i have to either have them take some type
of state testing . like the iowa's or have someon look at a portfolio
of their work. i will not have them do the testing so that leaves the
porfolio. any suggestions you could give me would be greatly
appreciated. thanks, pat<>

Pat:

Ohio has three options for end-of-year assessment: 1) the composite
score from a nationally normed achievement test, 2) a portfolio
assessment from an Ohio certified teacher, 3) anything that you and
your superintendent can agree upon. I have long advocated that
everyone try option #3 first. Only in those few districts where the
superintendents have a record of ogrely behavior will home educators
have a problem getting supers to agree to any number of things,
including: 1) since you are the child's teacher, and are authorized
by the state to select all his/her curriculum, administer the daily
educational hours, assess and observe the student on a daily basis,
then you are, of course, the most logical person to assess your
child, not some teacher who you visit with a pile of papers for one
hour (or less) once a year; 2) for older children some kind of yearly
project could provide a great record of your child's year of
learning, including a video production, a blog of learning
experience, a photo journalism display, or something else. You see,
Ohio isn't so bad, once you really read the regs and understand the
possibilities.

What you have to present for the portfolio assessment option depends
entirely on the teacher. Our group, CATCH, a totally inclusive, non-
directed, community-based home ed support group, has free membership
for anyone, and every spring we offer a free group portfolio
assessment event to members who join before Jan. 1 of each year (and
who remain members). I am an Ohio certified teacher and I also will
do private assessments, for a fee, for those who can't make the free
group one. Get in touch with me offlist if you'd like more
information.

Norma
CATCH/Cincinnati Area Teaching Children at Home
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/C-A-T-C-H

Robyn Coburn

<<i am in ohio. i know that i have to either have them take some type of
state
testing . like the iowa's or have someon look at a portfolio of their work.
i
will not have them do the testing so that leaves the porfolio. any
suggestions
you could give me would be greatly appreciated. thanks, pat>>



Hi Pat,

Try this group:

http://www.ohiohomeeducators.net/



The regulations say something about a written assessment, so maybe this is
in the form of an essay that you write. If it were me, I would start by
keeping a very simple journal/scrapbook of what you are doing each day - not
writing in "educationese", or just what could be normally construed as
educational activities, but everything that you do, and how you all spend
your time. It will give you a place to start when memory fails. When they
are grown up won't you have fun looking back. It may also help you feel
better once you realize just how much is being done.

I suggest that you ask you kids (sorry I forget their ages) for their ideas
for storing written pieces, art projects or other records.

Robyn L. Coburn






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Fetteroll

on 11/18/03 2:32 PM, mirindia4@... at mirindia4@... wrote:

> my one big question i have is
> how to you have the kids work evaluated at the end of the year, or how what do
> you put in a portfolio so that you get a letter from a teacher saying that
> they
> have made progress. i would appreciate any ideas to help me with this because
> this is the thing that i am concerned about . thank you for taking the time
> to read this and to answer me. pat

What state are you in Pat?

Not that people can't or won't answer here, but while you're waiting, you
might want to check out the state folders and the "How to meet your state's
requirements" folder on the message boards at Unschooling.com
(http://www.unschooling.com)

Joyce