[email protected]

In a message dated 11/9/03 10:27:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, haun107@...
writes:

> >>. If I put them away, in my opinion, it
> shows them that if they renege on their agreement to do it, they can let the
>
> cats and dogs starve too... all kids need a little responsibility and their
> own "job" to do.<<

At our house everything is up for renegotiation. If someone says that they
will do whatever, they can always come back and say it is too hard or too much
or they just don't feel like doing it, or need a little help. We have a ton
of animals and the boys love the animals. They help with cleaning cages and
help with feeding etc but I recognize that they do not want to do it all or all
the time so I ask them for help. I don't take on any new pet unless I am
willing to do the work, my boys are 6 and 9 by the way.

We don't have any chores here. We do what needs to be done and I ask for
help. They ask for help. We help each other. Sometimes they don't want to help
or are busy with something else. That's OK. I believe that they will take
responsibility for things when they are ready for it.
Not sure I made any sense.
But just a couple of thoughts
Pam G


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jennifer haun

My daughter gladly, and willingly, helps wherever is needed, most of the
time without asking. My son is the one who I had to make a formal agreement
with. If asked politely to help, his answer will almost always be a quick
no. It's my son that I'm having alot of trouble with since his father and I
divorced. My ex did not work, here or outside the home, for 3-4 years, and
grew up having everything handed to him or done for him. Our son has had
this for a role model, therefore thinks he doesn't have to do anything, even
when asked. I appreciate your opinions, and in most cases I agree with
everything, but I have tried that with my son.. it just doesn't work.





----Original Message Follows----
From: Genant2@...
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: responsibility was:
Limits/showering
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:20:18 EST

In a message dated 11/9/03 10:27:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,
haun107@...
writes:

> >>. If I put them away, in my opinion, it
> shows them that if they renege on their agreement to do it, they can let
the
>
> cats and dogs starve too... all kids need a little responsibility and
their
> own "job" to do.<<

At our house everything is up for renegotiation. If someone says that they
will do whatever, they can always come back and say it is too hard or too
much
or they just don't feel like doing it, or need a little help. We have a ton
of animals and the boys love the animals. They help with cleaning cages and
help with feeding etc but I recognize that they do not want to do it all or
all
the time so I ask them for help. I don't take on any new pet unless I am
willing to do the work, my boys are 6 and 9 by the way.

We don't have any chores here. We do what needs to be done and I ask for
help. They ask for help. We help each other. Sometimes they don't want to
help
or are busy with something else. That's OK. I believe that they will take
responsibility for things when they are ready for it.
Not sure I made any sense.
But just a couple of thoughts
Pam G


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Tia Leschke

>
>My daughter gladly, and willingly, helps wherever is needed, most of the
>time without asking. My son is the one who I had to make a formal agreement
>with. If asked politely to help, his answer will almost always be a quick
>no.

Asking politely, if no isn't an acceptable answer, isn't asking. It's
demanding. That's why I asked in another post if the kids have the option
to say no to requests for help.

> It's my son that I'm having alot of trouble with since his father and I
>divorced. My ex did not work, here or outside the home, for 3-4 years, and
>grew up having everything handed to him or done for him. Our son has had
>this for a role model, therefore thinks he doesn't have to do anything, even
>when asked. I appreciate your opinions, and in most cases I agree with
>everything, but I have tried that with my son.. it just doesn't work.

It might take longer than you think. Maybe you could find a role model for
him, a male who enjoys helping other people out just because.
Tia

jennifer haun

They always have the option of saying no to anything I ask them to do, but
they also realize that the more housework I do without help, the less time
we have as a family to do anything.









----Original Message Follows----
From: Tia Leschke <leschke@...>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: responsibility was:
Limits/showering
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 11:49:22 -0800


>
>My daughter gladly, and willingly, helps wherever is needed, most of the
>time without asking. My son is the one who I had to make a formal
agreement
>with. If asked politely to help, his answer will almost always be a quick
>no.

Asking politely, if no isn't an acceptable answer, isn't asking. It's
demanding. That's why I asked in another post if the kids have the option
to say no to requests for help.

> It's my son that I'm having alot of trouble with since his father and I
>divorced. My ex did not work, here or outside the home, for 3-4 years, and
>grew up having everything handed to him or done for him. Our son has had
>this for a role model, therefore thinks he doesn't have to do anything,
even
>when asked. I appreciate your opinions, and in most cases I agree with
>everything, but I have tried that with my son.. it just doesn't work.

It might take longer than you think. Maybe you could find a role model for
him, a male who enjoys helping other people out just because.
Tia



"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.

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Mary

From: <Genant2@...>

<<Not sure I made any sense.
But just a couple of thoughts>>


Made perfect sense to me and it also sounds like our house. Works well
that's for sure. I never take on a pet on the assumption that a child would
take full responsibility. I think that's just unrealistic. In fact we are
taking on another kitten shortly and I am also helping Tara with her litter
box duties she takes care of. Yes two of the cats she wanted and cleaning
the box means cleaning it whether we have 2 or 4, but it's a matter of
helping others out. It's a matter of me helping without anyone asking, me
helping when others do ask and the kids all seeing that and growing up doing
the same. Not thinking one can just delegate responsibilites to others
because they are the parent. Sometimes what kids think they can handle they
find out is different than their expectations. It's okay here to say so and
they get help because of that. I also don't make them do things because I'm
the parent and bigger and can. I'm ranting, I'll stop now.9



Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com

[email protected]

I have read this a few times on the list. Each time I read it I feel as if it
is some kind of head game. Like help me or we wont get out of here or hey we
can sit here all day and do nothing unless I get help! Like punishment.
Laura
************************************************************
<<<<They always have the option of saying no to anything I ask them to do,
but
they also realize that the more housework I do without help, the less time
we have as a family to do anything.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fetteroll

on 11/9/03 8:04 PM, HMSL2@... at HMSL2@... wrote:

> I have read this a few times on the list. Each time I read it I feel as if it
> is some kind of head game. Like help me or we wont get out of here or hey we
> can sit here all day and do nothing unless I get help! Like punishment.

Like reality.

"If you help me with the dishes then we'll have time for a game before bed."

It's not a bribe or threat to get them to do something.

But if it's not the truth, then it shouldn't be said.

> Like help me or we wont get out of here

"If I have help doing this we'll get out of here on time. If not we'll be
late."

It's a choice. Maybe being late is okay with the kids! I thought it was a no
brainer that it's good to be early and bad to be late but my daughter said
she'd rather be late to a class than arrive early and have to wait around.

> hey we can sit here all day and do nothing unless I get help!

Not sure I understand that one.

Joyce

Pam Hartley

--- In [email protected], HMSL2@a...
wrote:
> I have read this a few times on the list. Each time I read it I feel
as if it
> is some kind of head game. Like help me or we wont get out of
here or hey we
> can sit here all day and do nothing unless I get help! Like
punishment.
> Laura
> ************************************************************
> <<<<They always have the option of saying no to anything I ask
them to do,
> but
> they also realize that the more housework I do without help, the
less time
> we have as a family to do anything.


Thanks, Laura. That's what I wanted to say and didn't nearly as
well.

Pam

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/9/03 6:26:47 PM, HMSL2@... writes:

<< I feel as if it
is some kind of head game. Like help me or we wont get out of here or hey we
can sit here all day and do nothing unless I get help! Like punishment. >>

I agree.

<<They always have the option of saying no to anything I ask them to do,
but they also realize that the more housework I do without help, the less
time
we have as a family to do anything.>>

Depending on the tone, it might not be awful. Some families might make it
work fine, and when there's a single parent who's working, there could easily be
times when everone really needs to pitch in to get caught up with laundry or
something.

But lying just like it is above, some of us (me) will probably read into it a
known tone of a parent who set such traps to make it seem like OUR fault when
the parent chooses some arbitrary outcome.

But I've also seen and been involved in situations where it wasn't a trap, it
was an honest "Let's get the trash all collected and put out and then go for
ice cream," or something safe and good.

Sandra

J. Stauffer

<<they realize the more housework I do without help, the less time we have
for ... >>

<<Each time I read it its like its some kind of head game>>

I am not the original poster but speaking as someone with 5 kids, I can
guarantee this is reality here, not some kind of head game.

If I am left to do all the work, I get up before 6 am to start working and
still working after 9 pm. Between I am pretty much continually cleaning,
wiping, sweeping, picking up. Not to mention the needed hugs, talks,
referee-ing, etc.. Somebody is hungry, somebody has to go to the dentist,
somebody has gymnastics, somebody has 4-H.

Somebody posted about "people are more important than a sparkling house".
We NEVER reach sparkling. Without help, unless I am working non-stop, we
are walking around trash, literally. There was no time for reading stories,
playing games, museums, zoos, park days, nothing.

Trust me, some people have kids who are more organized, like stuff put
away.......then there are my kids who are pack rats, like their stuff out
all over the house "where they can see it good" <grin>, and are quite at
home just walking on top of whatever they have left in the floor.

Julie S.

kayb85

I think it's hard sometimes though to know exactly what I *have* to
do. I could let the dishes sit and play the game instead, so in
reality to say that I can't play the game until the dishes are
finished is saying that the dishes are more important than the game.
What I have a hard time with is knowing when I do need to put my foot
down and say, "Sorry, I *have* to do the dishes. Help me and we'll
get done quicker and have time to play". How much can they pile up
before you should say that? At what point do they *have* to get
done? Just before it becomes a health and hygiene issue or not until
someone is starving and doesn't have a clean plate to eat off of?

I guess the standard varies from household to household as far as
what housework has to get done when, but if the standard varies, then
the reality is that a lot of times when we say that we *have* to do
something, we're saying that I, the mom, am uncomfortable with the
mess being at this level and I don't want to play a game with you
when there are all these dishes to be done.

Awhile ago when I described the big mess in our playroom, I didn't
get answers like, "Hey, just live with that level of mess. No one
wants to clean it up, fine, it doesn't have to be done". Most people
said stuff like, "I couldn't think in a room as messy as you
described" or gave me ideas of how to ask the kids for help so that
I'd get a better response. (And I appreciated those responses, I'm
not saying this to argue with those responses by any means, but to
bring up a different point). In reality, I didn't *have* to clean up
that room for quite awhile. There was popcorn on the floor, but it
probably could have sat there for awhile before it attracted any bugs
or rodents. There were toys and stuff all over the floor but we
probably could have stepped over it for quite awhile before the level
of junk in the room got so bad that it became a real safety or fire
hazard.

So really, in my case, I didn't clean up because I absolutely *had*
to, but because I WANTED to. The mess got to the point where at that
moment in time I wanted it cleaned more than I wanted to play with
the kids or even more than I wanted to sleep.

We as unschoolers know that everyone's brains work differently, and
when we talk about housework that *has* to be done, I suspect our
minds all have different pictures. I think of work that *has to* be
done as someone is dying of thirst but doesn't have anything to drink
out of or someone wants to go outside but doesn't have any clean
pants to wear. I wouldn't say that I *have to* go shopping when there
isn't even any dry cereal or crackers left in the house, but I would
never *want* to let myself get to the point where that's all we have
left. So in reality, when I say I *have* to go shopping, the truth
is that I wouldn't *have* to, I *want* to.

I think as moms what we tend to do is criticize other mom's levels of
comfort. "Her house is always so messy. She *should* clean more.
Or, she's always cleaning, she *should* play with her kids more and
not worry so much about the mess. But except in rare circumstances
where there's total filth and unhealthy conditions, everyone is
choosing what they *want* to do. Maybe we should all just follow
our hearts and do what seems right to us? Maybe it's ok to let the
dishes go one day because our heart of hearts on that day is desiring
nothing more but to play with the kids, but on other days, our heart
of hearts is really yearning for a spotless kitchen?

Sheila

> > I have read this a few times on the list. Each time I read it I
feel as if it
> > is some kind of head game. Like help me or we wont get out of
here or hey we
> > can sit here all day and do nothing unless I get help! Like
punishment.
>
> Like reality.
>
> "If you help me with the dishes then we'll have time for a game
before bed."
>
> It's not a bribe or threat to get them to do something.
>
> But if it's not the truth, then it shouldn't be said.
>
> > Like help me or we wont get out of here
>
> "If I have help doing this we'll get out of here on time. If not
we'll be
> late."
>
> It's a choice. Maybe being late is okay with the kids! I thought it
was a no
> brainer that it's good to be early and bad to be late but my
daughter said
> she'd rather be late to a class than arrive early and have to wait
around.
>
> > hey we can sit here all day and do nothing unless I get help!
>
> Not sure I understand that one.
>
> Joyce

Betsy

**
Asking politely, if no isn't an acceptable answer, isn't asking. It's
demanding.**

Hi, Tia --

That's a really good point.

I think I often fall towards the demanding end of the spectrum because
when I want help I just don't want to hear "no" as the answer.

Betsy

Tia Leschke

>
>Asking politely, if no isn't an acceptable answer, isn't asking. It's
>demanding.**
>
>Hi, Tia --
>
>That's a really good point.

It was on another homeschooling list a couple of days ago, where we're
discussing much the same thing.


>I think I often fall towards the demanding end of the spectrum because
>when I want help I just don't want to hear "no" as the answer.

I struggle with it too. Sometimes I just find it hard to ask for help.
Other times I'm trying to figure out how to ask so I won't get a no. <g>
By the time the lad leaves home I should just about have it. %^ )
Tia

Mary

From: "J. Stauffer" <jnjstau@...>

<<If I am left to do all the work, I get up before 6 am to start working
and
still working after 9 pm. Between I am pretty much continually cleaning,
wiping, sweeping, picking up. Not to mention the needed hugs, talks,
referee-ing, etc.. Somebody is hungry, somebody has to go to the dentist,
somebody has gymnastics, somebody has 4-H.>>


I do understand what you mean. I have also found that a little at a time,
and doing things coming and going helps a lot. I have 4 kids, 2 dogs, 3
cats, a snake, crabs and 4 fish tanks I am responsible for. The kids have
scheduled outtings 3 days of every week. We absolutely have to be up by 9:30
in order to be down the street by noon. Our house is large enough to keep
me busy. My kids save everything they have. My husband does too. I have an
awful lot here to keep my busy all hours of the day. I'm also pretty anal
about the house and the kids as far as how they look. That's my thing and
my family is pretty easy going with appeasing me. <BG> Point is, I have
plenty of time to keep the house neat and play with the kids, cook, get them
to where they need to go, shop, have computer time and pretty much free time
to take care of other things. It is possible. If I'm on the way to the
bathroom, I'll pick something up along the way that needs to get somewhere
else. Which makes it so sometimes I forget about the bathroom!! But
eventually I do get there. Putting the dishes in a sink of water and leaving
them there is fine. I can't go out of the house with dishes in the sink but
I've got to the point where they can stay there for awhile when I'm home.
While the kids are eating or playing alone is a good time to finish them.
Same with vacuuming and dusting and floors, etc. I find that if I do
cleaning every single day, I can do it quickly, keep things clean as they
don't get out of hand and still have things reasonably neat and still have
plenty of time for fun.

My kids don't have chores and I just volunteered to help with the litter box
which was my oldest's only thing to take care of. (that I asked her to do) I
ask for help with cleaning up the kids stuff but I mostly don't ask, I just
do and they just do. Do they clean up as much as I would like? No,
definitely not. But they do help and I have eased way up on what is
acceptable to me so as not to put it all on them. So I can have a nice
comfort level attained for me, they are happy and we don't have chores and
rules as to who does what and when. I'm also a joyful house cleaner. It's
amazing how much that helps.



Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com

Fetteroll

on 11/9/03 10:20 PM, kayb85 at sheran@... wrote:

> I think it's hard sometimes though to know exactly what I *have* to
> do.

Don't think in terms of "have to". Think in terms of want to.

You know, I think a lot of people have an authority figure voice in their
heads who tells them what they have to do and won't let them not do it.

Get rid of the voice. There's no one there to make you do anything you don't
want to do. Give yourself permission to *not* do chores.

By making that mental shift it frees you to do the things you want to do. To
which some people will then say "Yeah, right. If I only do what I want then
I'll do nothing but read, TV and computer. And we'll live in a pig sty and
we'll eventually starve."

Does anyone *want* to starve? Does anyone *want* to live in a pig sty? Well
if they do, then they wouldn't respond to the suggestion to do what they
want with sarcasm. They'd be responding with joy ;-)

The only reason that response seems to make sense is because we assume we're
only doing chores because that voice in our head makes us. We assume if we
get rid of the voice we won't do the chores.

But that's not true. If we give ourselves permission to not do chores, we'll
find we really do chores because the consequences of not doing them are
worse than the consequences of doing them. And we may even find, if we get
rid of the voice, that we can do chores because we appreciate what they
accomplish. And maybe even get to the point where we can appreciate the
process of accomplishing something.

If you give yourself permission to only do what you want, then you can clean
so you don't live in a pig sty not because you have to. You can find ways to
eat because you don't want to starve. Even better is to cook because you
want to enjoy the process of cooking, try out new recipes, do something with
your kids, or do something that you know will make someone smile.

You can scrub the toilet when you notice it's dirtier than you like it to
be. You can wash the dishes because you'd like to have clean plates. You can
wash the sheets because you'd like to have the feeling of clean sheets.

So if you think of chores in terms of something you want to do, something
that's important for you, like reading a book, you can in all honesty say
"I'd like to have some clean dishes for the morning so I want to get that
done before I go to bed," just as you might say "I'd like to have some time
to watch my favorite show." And just with watching the favorite show, we
have options. We could skip it. We could tape it (which can cut down the
time it takes to watch it). We could offer to do the game after the show.
Unlike reading a book where the purpose is to enjoy the time doing it so we
don't want it speeded up with "help" ;-), with chores it's often the end
product we want so help can shorten the time it takes to get there and free
us up for other things. (Though sometimes people appreciate the time alone
to think that a job (like washing the dishes) provides for them.)

(A little off the topic of "have to" but still on the topic of making chores
less of a chore ;-) is finding ways to enjoy what we're doing. If we're
folding a child's clothes it can give us the opportunity to think about how
great the opportunity is to have the clothes and the child to fold them for.
We can appreciate the fresh smell. We can think about special meals that
we've cooked in a pan. It sounds sort of like the advice given to 50's
housewives to make them happy sappy home makers ;-) But if there's a path we
need to walk to get to where we want to go, we can walk it with resentment
or we can find a way to appreciate the journey.)

Another thing with "have to" is that it often prevents us from seeing new
ways to accomplish something. If we see a tub full of dishes as an
inevitable consequence of cooking and eating, then it doesn't occur to us to
rethink the problem. But someone here said they only kept available enough
plates for a meal. That way they never had more than a few dishes to wash.
Most of us probably have too many clothes in circulation. If there aren't as
many clothes then laundry will be done more often but the sorting and
folding and returning won't be a huge chore.

(Those are just "out of the box" ways of viewing a couple of chores not
intended as suggestions for anyone to adopt.)

I don't know if that really answered your question. Having a rule would be a
lot simpler! Explaining and getting a new philosophy is a lot harder but
more flexible and more rewarding.

Joyce

Fetteroll

on 11/9/03 10:02 PM, J. Stauffer at jnjstau@... wrote:

> Trust me, some people have kids who are more organized, like stuff put
> away.......then there are my kids who are pack rats, like their stuff out
> all over the house "where they can see it good" <grin>, and are quite at
> home just walking on top of whatever they have left in the floor.

Usually when people say "trust me" it means "This is the situation I'm stuck
with and there's nothing I or anyone can do about it."

It might be true that you've tried many different things, but announcing it
cuts off discussion where people could offer ideas. It also says you aren't
willing to try anything different. That's just not useful on a *discussion*
list! ;-)

It's quite possible a number of people here have a houseful of strewing-type
kids who have ways to make the problem easier. If you say "trust
me"-end-of-discussion then you won't hear those ways. Closing off situations
as unsolvable means a solution that could come to you will be turned away.
Always being open, even if you feel you've scraped the barrel of your
ability to solve a problem, means that solutions could wander in and find
their way to you.

Joyce

[email protected]

In a message dated 11/10/03 4:26:26 AM, fetteroll@... writes:

<< You can scrub the toilet when you notice it's dirtier than you like it to
be. You can wash the dishes because you'd like to have clean plates. You can
wash the sheets because you'd like to have the feeling of clean sheets. >>

Some people wash sheets on a certain day every week. Some weeks the sheets
hardly needed it. Sometimes they were uncomfortably dirty three days before,
but their schedule has priority over the purpose of the task.

That's the problem schools have. They gave the curriculum priority over the
students.

If we see it in educational scenarios, maybe we can see it where it regards
chores and food and other things.

Meals on a schedule are necessary when there's a big family with servants and
they're dining formally or having guests. When three or five people live
in a house and there are no servants, and the refrigerator doesn't have a lock
on it, and especially if someone needs frequent small snacks for some personal
biochemical reason, having meals on a schedule is putting the clock ahead of
the humans.

The put-down line about people my age in the 60's was a snarkily, sarcastic
"I guess you think if it feels good, do it." The clear message was that the
idea of doing what feels good or doing what seems natural was WRONG wrong
wrong. And "the other side" had a slew of messages to refute it:
Work's not supposed to be fun.
If it tastes bad it must be good for you. (of medicine and vegetables)
You're not here to have fun.
No pain, no gain.
Suffering is good for the soul.

Those could pretty much be summarized "If it feels good, DON'T do it."

Those kinds of messages are hard to shake off.

Joyce talked about voices in our heads/messages we give ourselves on behalf
of mothers or others. That's the "super-ego" for those who want a more
technical view of it. Freud's list of divisions (and there are other lists, of
course) are "Id" "Ego" Super-Ego." I think women more often get the voices of
mothers and grandmothers, and men might more likely have their dads' voices as
the main "HEY, what are you doing!?" internal thought-police. Not exactly the
same as your conscience, but a big part of it, I think.

I have LOTS of voices in there. I learned to ignore my mom's years ago. I
have teachers I respected, I have my father-in-law (who makes sense lots of
times). I have wise friends' reminders in there. I have anal friends' reminders
in there, and I bat them away sometimes. <g>

It takes concious effort to develop arguments to defend your own mind against
the rest of your own mind.

People write and say "What will I tell my grandmother, who used to be a
teacher, and who keeps our kids one week each summer, about unschooling?" Those
questions are common and real, but more common and less tangible is "What will
you tell the voices inside your head?"

That's why unschooling is such a switch from life as we knew it before we
decided to leave the well-worn path.

Sandra

[email protected]

The poster wasn't talking about being to a scheduled location or
responsibility. Why can't the house be cleaned when she arrives home? I have three kids
and way too much stuff and when we go we just go. The house isn't leaving or
going on a date and needs grooming, my house is never going to be Good
Housekeeping's house of the year but it is livable and without bugs. I also cannot stand
dishes in the sink after dinner forget the next day. I do them the night
before and in the am I wash what is used while the kids eat breakfast. I have too
many dishes also so I am constantly washing them but we dont do the clean
before we go. I might but I dont hold up the kids in spite of it.
My cleaning time is during the babies nap so we are home and have no plans
until he wakes.
I think its all in how it was read. I read it like I have herd others say it
in the past and what they meant. I read it how my step Mom intended as a
child. IMO it doesn't fit or work in the lifestyle I have chosen.

The conversation was chores and telling kids to do something because mom or
dad thinks its a must do now. Not about being late or too early.
Laura
***************************************************************************
<<<<<<It's a choice. Maybe being late is okay with the kids! I thought it was
a no
brainer that it's good to be early and bad to be late but my daughter said
she'd rather be late to a class than arrive early and have to wait around.
Joyce>>>>>>>>


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[email protected]

In a message dated 11-9-2003 8:39:09 PM Mountain Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
But I've also seen and been involved in situations where it wasn't a trap, it
was an honest "Let's get the trash all collected and put out and then go for
ice cream," or something safe and good.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I love this discussion!! I definitely do NOT live in a sparkling house, but
it does need to be picked up occasionally and it might be nice to get our
dishes from the cupboard instead of the sink or dish drainer ~ more than once a
month <g> I do realize that that is *nice* for me, the kids don't mind :)
Last night, it played out like above ~ we have a friend over today and I
really wanted (at least) the living room picked up and the kids wanted my
attention. I explained I really want to get this done and I'll have time to play
later, Hannah immediately said, "Well, we'll help you mommy so it will be done
quicker" They were so proud of the job they did! I was calm and happy and so
were they and it was a definite win-win situation! They found all kinds of toys
and videos that were under the piles, much more like a treasure hunt than
*chores*.
I really loved the *famine/starving* analogy ~ I may get the guts to use it!
Joyce, thanks for your feedback too ~ I saved it and will read it regularly!

diana,
The wackiest widow westriver...
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The
latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to
hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." ~ Albert
Einstein


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