Re: Abuse
J. Stauffer
<<Well, adults don't usually....>>
But they do. My dh is a volunteer fireman so we have a scanner running and
hear the calls for the sheriff's office. Several times a day in our small
little rural area, someone is throwing a tantrum, cursing, fighting, etc..
I witnessed a doosie in Walmart last Christmas. Man and woman screaming
through Walmart at no one really in particular it seemed "This is going to
f*** everything up! Do you know how f***ing crazy she is going to make my
life? Are any of you married? F***! Shut the f*** up!!" A small crowd had
gathered watching this spectacle in bafflement and all I could think to do
was lean over to the man next to me and whisper "Merry f***ing Christmas".
He laughed, I laughed and we walked away.
Adults do powerplays with each other all the time. They tease about things
until way,way after they are funny. We don't hit them without threat of
incarceration.
Julie S.--reformed spanker
But they do. My dh is a volunteer fireman so we have a scanner running and
hear the calls for the sheriff's office. Several times a day in our small
little rural area, someone is throwing a tantrum, cursing, fighting, etc..
I witnessed a doosie in Walmart last Christmas. Man and woman screaming
through Walmart at no one really in particular it seemed "This is going to
f*** everything up! Do you know how f***ing crazy she is going to make my
life? Are any of you married? F***! Shut the f*** up!!" A small crowd had
gathered watching this spectacle in bafflement and all I could think to do
was lean over to the man next to me and whisper "Merry f***ing Christmas".
He laughed, I laughed and we walked away.
Adults do powerplays with each other all the time. They tease about things
until way,way after they are funny. We don't hit them without threat of
incarceration.
Julie S.--reformed spanker
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 9:07 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Digest Number 4143
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are 13 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: Movie
> From: "Lisa M. Cottrell Bentley" <cottrellbentley@...>
> 2. Re: About spelling...
> From: Dawn Bennink <dbennink@...>
> 3. RE: About spelling...
> From: "Robyn Coburn" <dezigna@...>
> 4. Re: What is abuse? Who decides?
> From: "Brian and Kathy Stamp" <bstamp@...>
> 5. Re: About spelling...
> From: Kimberly Fry <kimberly_fry@...>
> 6. Re: Movie
> From: CelticFrau@...
> 7. Re: Movie
> From: CelticFrau@...
> 8. Re: What is abuse? Who decides?
> From: HMSL2@...
> 9. Re: Digest Number 4142
> From: Paula Sjogerman <sjogy@...>
> 10. Strictly Ballroom
> From: "Robyn Coburn" <dezigna@...>
> 11. spanking
> From: Halo5964@...
> 12. Re: What is abuse? Who decides?
> From: SandraDodd@...
> 13. Re: What is abuse? Who decides?
> From: arcarpenter@...
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:56:17 -0700
> From: "Lisa M. Cottrell Bentley" <cottrellbentley@...>
> Subject: Re: Movie
>
> > 1. The Secret of Roan Inish
> >
> > Hi Nancy - Is there anything in that movie that would upset a sensitive
> > viewer? Rowan, who's six, gets very upset if a character goes through
> any
> > kind of emotional trauma, and I've been trying to find someone who's
seen
> it
> > who I could ask. Thanks ~Rue
>
> You can check:
> http://www.screenit.com
> http://www.kids-in-mind.com
>
> These sites don't have a wide variety of movies, but they are fairly
> accurate about content. Neither site has the movie you are concerned
with.
>
> This site:
> http://www.family-movie-review.com
> has vague reviews without specifics about language, violence, content,
etc.
> It has this movie, but doesn't say anything about emotional trauma. From
> the general story line though, I personally would not be interested in
> watching it (sounds way too sad).
>
> -Lisa in AZ
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:04:24 -0500
> From: Dawn Bennink <dbennink@...>
> Subject: Re: About spelling...
>
> Do you think that people who learn with a more whole language approach
> to reading and writing are better spellers than those who learn phonics?
> I learned whole language and am a pretty good speller. My husband is a
> bit younger and was in a different district and learned phonics. He's a
> horrible speller. Many of the kids I meet who have spelling issues were
> taught to learn to read phonetically.
>
> Dawn
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:47:42 -0800
> From: "Robyn Coburn" <dezigna@...>
> Subject: RE: About spelling...
>
> I love the spellchecker because, being from Australia, some words simply
> are spelled differently here (or there depending on your POV). Of course
> the limitation is that if a word is spelled wrongly in context, but is
> still a real word, the checker misses it. The only time misspelling
> bothers me in casual writing is when the meaning becomes unclear, or
> causes me to have to puzzle it out - but hey! Shit happens and when I
> say "bothers" I mean bugs me for two seconds and then I move on. My only
> pet peeve is "Lose" and "Loose" which seem to be used interchangeably,
> and do sometimes alter meaning considerably. For example: "I lose my son
> to computer games" vs "I loose my son to computer games". The former
> could be resentful, the latter a joyous and poetical expression of
> freedom for the son.
>
> Robyn Coburn
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 21:10:10 -0500
> From: "Brian and Kathy Stamp" <bstamp@...>
> Subject: Re: What is abuse? Who decides?
>
> HURRAH (is that spelt right?) Well said.
>
> Kathy
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Deborah Lewis
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 7:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] What is abuse? Who decides?
>
>
> << Let's not forget that different people have different ideas of
> abuse.>>
>
> Only regarding children.
>
> No one would consider it acceptable if I spanked, yanked or swatted an
> elderly parent in my care.
> No one would think it was ok if I spanked or swatted a coworker, doctor,
> teacher, or bus driver if they were not behaving the way I liked.
> No one would think it was ok if a man turned his wife over his knee in
> Wal-mart and let her have it.
> That's abuse. But the littlest people can get that treatment and we're
> still calling it parenting.
>
> Deb
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
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> To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
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>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 19:57:13 -0800 (PST)
> From: Kimberly Fry <kimberly_fry@...>
> Subject: Re: About spelling...
>
>
> >>>>> Sandra's husband became a better speller. Are there many more out
there who have learned this ability? Both my husband and I were just born
with it and I have yet to meet a person who is a good speller and wasn't
born to it. <<<<<
>
> My son (14) is improving on his spelling. Spelling tests in school always
frustrated him. No matter how hard/long he'd study, he'd still be lucky to
earn a passing grade. He wouldn't remember how to spell those words the next
week.
>
> The ONLY thing (and we tried lots of things) that's worked for him is to
learn the words as he uses them. Not an arbitrary set that he's supposed to
know. He plays Tribes online and frequently asks how to spell whatever word
he's having trouble with. After four or fives times of my spelling it for
him, he owns the word. His writing of stories has also provided painless
practice and improvement.
>
> Andy told me just the other day that spelling is *much* easier when
typing. Handwriting just adds enough to the mix to cause the frustration.
Maybe that's why the spelling tests were so traumatic.
>
> Kim
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:24:37 EST
> From: CelticFrau@...
> Subject: Re: Movie
>
> In a message dated 10/30/2003 7:43:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> ecsamhill@... writes:
> I think the title is not quite right. Into the West?
> You're right Betsy! I went to check the video to make sure after I sent
the
> email and got sidetracked!! Thanks.
>
> Nancy B. in WV
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:29:29 EST
> From: CelticFrau@...
> Subject: Re: Movie
>
> In a message dated 10/30/2003 8:16:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> skreams@... writes:
> Hi Nancy - Is there anything in that movie that would upset a sensitive
> viewer? Rowan, who's six, gets very upset if a character goes through
any
> kind of emotional trauma, and I've been trying to find someone who's seen
it
> who I could ask. Thanks ~Rue
> It may. I don't want to give it away, but it has the legend of the selkie
in
> it (Irish/Scottish story of woman/man who can turn from a seal into a
human
> and back again) so someone in the story has to deal with this happening.
Also,
> there's a scene where a child is washed out to sea (it turns out good
later
> though) that is particularly sad/scary. Maybe not the best for a
sensitive
> young one.
>
> Nancy B. in WV
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:30:11 EST
> From: HMSL2@...
> Subject: Re: What is abuse? Who decides?
>
>
> << Let's not forget that different people have different ideas of
> abuse.>>
> I called this abuse today. I also got moderated on that list.
>
> A Mom was pointing out that her children needed work ethic and so on. Her
> example was: my child wanted an animal so we bought a bird. After a few
days he
> was not feeding the bird so what was I to do? She said "Do I one tell him
its
> ok and let the bird die? or two (what she did) Do I tell him he doesn't
eat
> until the bird is fed?
> To that I replied well one I do hope you are not serious and two it is
> considered parental abuse to withhold food from a child. Lastly feed the
darn bid
> yourself.
> Abuse takes many shapes. I dont know this Mom so I dont know how long she
> withheld food but she came back to say she disagreed.
> Laura
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:59:52 -0600
> From: Paula Sjogerman <sjogy@...>
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 4142
>
> on 10/30/03 7:23 PM, [email protected] at
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > 2. The Way West (not many people have heard of this, has Gabriel Byrne
in
> > it, it's about Irish Gypsies and a legendary horse, really cute)
>
>
> This is really called Into the West. The kids and I just watched it for
the
> 4th or 5th time. Not only Gabriel Byrne, but Ellen Barkin too!
>
> Paula
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:48:09 -0800
> From: "Robyn Coburn" <dezigna@...>
> Subject: Strictly Ballroom
>
> I'm surprised that Ebert found the plot too complicated. Or that he
> complained about stylized camera work that was so evidently deliberate
> and planned. A tidbit about the film is that the actor portraying Fran's
> father was the Spanish National flamenco champion or some similar title.
> His dancing is cool. The film is full of some of the grand actors of
> their generation in Australia. I once designed costumes for a play with
> Pat Thomson. She was a wonderful raconteur and world traveler,
> entertaining all of us during rehearsals, as well as really good in the
> show. Paul Mercurio is the son of a well known (Australian) character
> actor Gus Mercurio. When I was working wardrobe on "La Cage aux Folles"
> in Sydney in the early eighties, it was rumored that Paul had been
> slated to take over the part of the son (the "juvenile" as it is called
> in musical theater), which was played by Gerry Sont (an old friend of
> mine from high school, now a soap star in Australia). It didn't happen
> at the time, although the dancing required for that particular character
> was incidental, unlike the Cagelles, who had some pretty big and fancy
> dancing.
>
> Robyn Coburn
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 06:17:21 EST
> From: Halo5964@...
> Subject: spanking
>
> No one would consider it acceptable if I spanked, yanked or swatted an
> elderly parent in my care.
> No one would think it was ok if I spanked or swatted a coworker, doctor,
> teacher, or bus driver if they were not behaving the way I liked.
> No one would think it was ok if a man turned his wife over his knee in
> Wal-mart and let her have it.
> That's abuse. But the littlest people can get that treatment and we're
> still calling it parenting.
>
>
> Thanks, Deb, for writing it this way. Sure does make things quite a bit
> clearer, doesn't it?
>
> Carol
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:20:38 EST
> From: SandraDodd@...
> Subject: Re: What is abuse? Who decides?
>
> Deb, Thanks! I've added this to the collection, and it's here:
>
> http://sandradodd.com/s/pressure
>
> That page has a link to "Christians for Non-Violent Parenting" (not part
of
> my site).
>
>
> << << Let's not forget that different people have different ideas of
> abuse.>>
>
> Only regarding children.
>
> No one would consider it acceptable if I spanked, yanked or swatted an
> elderly parent in my care.
> No one would think it was ok if I spanked or swatted a coworker, doctor,
> teacher, or bus driver if they were not behaving the way I liked.
> No one would think it was ok if a man turned his wife over his knee in
> Wal-mart and let her have it.
> That's abuse. But the littlest people can get that treatment and we're
> still calling it parenting.
>
> Deb >>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:49:39 EST
> From: arcarpenter@...
> Subject: Re: What is abuse? Who decides?
>
> In a message dated 10/31/03 8:23:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> SandraDodd@... writes:
> > No one would think it was ok if a man turned his wife over his knee in
> > Wal-mart and let her have it.
>
> This was well said, and I'd like to follow up on it.
>
> I should say that I have spanked in the past, but it was never something I
> felt good about; I always knew that if I'd gotten to spanking, I'd
failed --
> failed to come up with a better solution to the "problem" (and I now
realize I
> was sometimes making problems where there weren't any by expecting certain
> behaviors), failed to control my own temper, failed to nurture myself and
my son so
> that we could both have what we needed. There was always a disconnect --
I
> felt horrible about what I'd done, but much of society seemed to think it
was
> okay, seemed to think that it was my right to do so as a parent. I've
been
> very confused up until now, to be honest.
>
> With that said, the response I could hear others making to Deb's comment
> about how we wouldn't treat adults that way: "Well, adults don't usually
refuse
> to get dressed; they don't throw tantrums in public. Adults don't usually
> hide under the clothes racks in Wal-mart and scare everyone by not coming
out
> when called. Adults don't repeatedly run out in front of cars and so
don't need
> to be taught a sharp lesson for their own safety. That's why we treat
kids
> differently."
>
> I have some ideas about the response to this, but I'd love to hear
others'.
> TIA.
>
> Peace,
> Amy
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/31/03 9:20:51 AM, jnjstau@... writes:
<< Adults do powerplays with each other all the time. They tease about things
until way,way after they are funny. We don't hit them without threat of
incarceration. >>
And when someone does hit another adult, they might be thinking at least
briefly "This is worth risking arrest for now," and then they take the guy to the
ground and hope there's someone to pull them back off if the adrenaline
overtakes them.
But if it's a kid, they don't need to think "Okay, if I'm seen it's
jailtime."'
Probably the worst they'd get would be a recommendation that they take a
parenting class. MAYBE a court-ordered parenting class. I don't think anyone
would lose custody on a first offense, just get "pointers."
First offense beating the neighbor would be assault and battery.
Sandra
<< Adults do powerplays with each other all the time. They tease about things
until way,way after they are funny. We don't hit them without threat of
incarceration. >>
And when someone does hit another adult, they might be thinking at least
briefly "This is worth risking arrest for now," and then they take the guy to the
ground and hope there's someone to pull them back off if the adrenaline
overtakes them.
But if it's a kid, they don't need to think "Okay, if I'm seen it's
jailtime."'
Probably the worst they'd get would be a recommendation that they take a
parenting class. MAYBE a court-ordered parenting class. I don't think anyone
would lose custody on a first offense, just get "pointers."
First offense beating the neighbor would be assault and battery.
Sandra
Julie
Just wondering, what do you guys do if you observe abusive behavior in public? Where is that line between intervening and not intervening, and if you do intervene, what do you do or say?
Thanks,
Julie B.
P.S. Yikes! Just realized that this is the UnschoolingDiscussion list I wrote to, and I'm only supposed to be listening/observing for the first couple of weeks. Can you let this by?
Thanks,
Julie B.
P.S. Yikes! Just realized that this is the UnschoolingDiscussion list I wrote to, and I'm only supposed to be listening/observing for the first couple of weeks. Can you let this by?
----- Original Message -----
From: J. Stauffer
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 11:15 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Abuse
<<Well, adults don't usually....>>
But they do. My dh is a volunteer fireman so we have a scanner running and
hear the calls for the sheriff's office. Several times a day in our small
little rural area, someone is throwing a tantrum, cursing, fighting, etc..
I witnessed a doosie in Walmart last Christmas. Man and woman screaming
through Walmart at no one really in particular it seemed "This is going to
f*** everything up! Do you know how f***ing crazy she is going to make my
life? Are any of you married? F***! Shut the f*** up!!" A small crowd had
gathered watching this spectacle in bafflement and all I could think to do
was lean over to the man next to me and whisper "Merry f***ing Christmas".
He laughed, I laughed and we walked away.
Adults do powerplays with each other all the time. They tease about things
until way,way after they are funny. We don't hit them without threat of
incarceration.
Julie S.--reformed spanker
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 9:07 AM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Digest Number 4143
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are 13 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: Movie
> From: "Lisa M. Cottrell Bentley" <cottrellbentley@...>
> 2. Re: About spelling...
> From: Dawn Bennink <dbennink@...>
> 3. RE: About spelling...
> From: "Robyn Coburn" <dezigna@...>
> 4. Re: What is abuse? Who decides?
> From: "Brian and Kathy Stamp" <bstamp@...>
> 5. Re: About spelling...
> From: Kimberly Fry <kimberly_fry@...>
> 6. Re: Movie
> From: CelticFrau@...
> 7. Re: Movie
> From: CelticFrau@...
> 8. Re: What is abuse? Who decides?
> From: HMSL2@...
> 9. Re: Digest Number 4142
> From: Paula Sjogerman <sjogy@...>
> 10. Strictly Ballroom
> From: "Robyn Coburn" <dezigna@...>
> 11. spanking
> From: Halo5964@...
> 12. Re: What is abuse? Who decides?
> From: SandraDodd@...
> 13. Re: What is abuse? Who decides?
> From: arcarpenter@...
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:56:17 -0700
> From: "Lisa M. Cottrell Bentley" <cottrellbentley@...>
> Subject: Re: Movie
>
> > 1. The Secret of Roan Inish
> >
> > Hi Nancy - Is there anything in that movie that would upset a sensitive
> > viewer? Rowan, who's six, gets very upset if a character goes through
> any
> > kind of emotional trauma, and I've been trying to find someone who's
seen
> it
> > who I could ask. Thanks ~Rue
>
> You can check:
> http://www.screenit.com
> http://www.kids-in-mind.com
>
> These sites don't have a wide variety of movies, but they are fairly
> accurate about content. Neither site has the movie you are concerned
with.
>
> This site:
> http://www.family-movie-review.com
> has vague reviews without specifics about language, violence, content,
etc.
> It has this movie, but doesn't say anything about emotional trauma. From
> the general story line though, I personally would not be interested in
> watching it (sounds way too sad).
>
> -Lisa in AZ
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:04:24 -0500
> From: Dawn Bennink <dbennink@...>
> Subject: Re: About spelling...
>
> Do you think that people who learn with a more whole language approach
> to reading and writing are better spellers than those who learn phonics?
> I learned whole language and am a pretty good speller. My husband is a
> bit younger and was in a different district and learned phonics. He's a
> horrible speller. Many of the kids I meet who have spelling issues were
> taught to learn to read phonetically.
>
> Dawn
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:47:42 -0800
> From: "Robyn Coburn" <dezigna@...>
> Subject: RE: About spelling...
>
> I love the spellchecker because, being from Australia, some words simply
> are spelled differently here (or there depending on your POV). Of course
> the limitation is that if a word is spelled wrongly in context, but is
> still a real word, the checker misses it. The only time misspelling
> bothers me in casual writing is when the meaning becomes unclear, or
> causes me to have to puzzle it out - but hey! Shit happens and when I
> say "bothers" I mean bugs me for two seconds and then I move on. My only
> pet peeve is "Lose" and "Loose" which seem to be used interchangeably,
> and do sometimes alter meaning considerably. For example: "I lose my son
> to computer games" vs "I loose my son to computer games". The former
> could be resentful, the latter a joyous and poetical expression of
> freedom for the son.
>
> Robyn Coburn
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 21:10:10 -0500
> From: "Brian and Kathy Stamp" <bstamp@...>
> Subject: Re: What is abuse? Who decides?
>
> HURRAH (is that spelt right?) Well said.
>
> Kathy
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Deborah Lewis
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 7:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] What is abuse? Who decides?
>
>
> << Let's not forget that different people have different ideas of
> abuse.>>
>
> Only regarding children.
>
> No one would consider it acceptable if I spanked, yanked or swatted an
> elderly parent in my care.
> No one would think it was ok if I spanked or swatted a coworker, doctor,
> teacher, or bus driver if they were not behaving the way I liked.
> No one would think it was ok if a man turned his wife over his knee in
> Wal-mart and let her have it.
> That's abuse. But the littlest people can get that treatment and we're
> still calling it parenting.
>
> Deb
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 19:57:13 -0800 (PST)
> From: Kimberly Fry <kimberly_fry@...>
> Subject: Re: About spelling...
>
>
> >>>>> Sandra's husband became a better speller. Are there many more out
there who have learned this ability? Both my husband and I were just born
with it and I have yet to meet a person who is a good speller and wasn't
born to it. <<<<<
>
> My son (14) is improving on his spelling. Spelling tests in school always
frustrated him. No matter how hard/long he'd study, he'd still be lucky to
earn a passing grade. He wouldn't remember how to spell those words the next
week.
>
> The ONLY thing (and we tried lots of things) that's worked for him is to
learn the words as he uses them. Not an arbitrary set that he's supposed to
know. He plays Tribes online and frequently asks how to spell whatever word
he's having trouble with. After four or fives times of my spelling it for
him, he owns the word. His writing of stories has also provided painless
practice and improvement.
>
> Andy told me just the other day that spelling is *much* easier when
typing. Handwriting just adds enough to the mix to cause the frustration.
Maybe that's why the spelling tests were so traumatic.
>
> Kim
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:24:37 EST
> From: CelticFrau@...
> Subject: Re: Movie
>
> In a message dated 10/30/2003 7:43:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> ecsamhill@... writes:
> I think the title is not quite right. Into the West?
> You're right Betsy! I went to check the video to make sure after I sent
the
> email and got sidetracked!! Thanks.
>
> Nancy B. in WV
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:29:29 EST
> From: CelticFrau@...
> Subject: Re: Movie
>
> In a message dated 10/30/2003 8:16:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> skreams@... writes:
> Hi Nancy - Is there anything in that movie that would upset a sensitive
> viewer? Rowan, who's six, gets very upset if a character goes through
any
> kind of emotional trauma, and I've been trying to find someone who's seen
it
> who I could ask. Thanks ~Rue
> It may. I don't want to give it away, but it has the legend of the selkie
in
> it (Irish/Scottish story of woman/man who can turn from a seal into a
human
> and back again) so someone in the story has to deal with this happening.
Also,
> there's a scene where a child is washed out to sea (it turns out good
later
> though) that is particularly sad/scary. Maybe not the best for a
sensitive
> young one.
>
> Nancy B. in WV
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:30:11 EST
> From: HMSL2@...
> Subject: Re: What is abuse? Who decides?
>
>
> << Let's not forget that different people have different ideas of
> abuse.>>
> I called this abuse today. I also got moderated on that list.
>
> A Mom was pointing out that her children needed work ethic and so on. Her
> example was: my child wanted an animal so we bought a bird. After a few
days he
> was not feeding the bird so what was I to do? She said "Do I one tell him
its
> ok and let the bird die? or two (what she did) Do I tell him he doesn't
eat
> until the bird is fed?
> To that I replied well one I do hope you are not serious and two it is
> considered parental abuse to withhold food from a child. Lastly feed the
darn bid
> yourself.
> Abuse takes many shapes. I dont know this Mom so I dont know how long she
> withheld food but she came back to say she disagreed.
> Laura
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:59:52 -0600
> From: Paula Sjogerman <sjogy@...>
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 4142
>
> on 10/30/03 7:23 PM, [email protected] at
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > 2. The Way West (not many people have heard of this, has Gabriel Byrne
in
> > it, it's about Irish Gypsies and a legendary horse, really cute)
>
>
> This is really called Into the West. The kids and I just watched it for
the
> 4th or 5th time. Not only Gabriel Byrne, but Ellen Barkin too!
>
> Paula
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:48:09 -0800
> From: "Robyn Coburn" <dezigna@...>
> Subject: Strictly Ballroom
>
> I'm surprised that Ebert found the plot too complicated. Or that he
> complained about stylized camera work that was so evidently deliberate
> and planned. A tidbit about the film is that the actor portraying Fran's
> father was the Spanish National flamenco champion or some similar title.
> His dancing is cool. The film is full of some of the grand actors of
> their generation in Australia. I once designed costumes for a play with
> Pat Thomson. She was a wonderful raconteur and world traveler,
> entertaining all of us during rehearsals, as well as really good in the
> show. Paul Mercurio is the son of a well known (Australian) character
> actor Gus Mercurio. When I was working wardrobe on "La Cage aux Folles"
> in Sydney in the early eighties, it was rumored that Paul had been
> slated to take over the part of the son (the "juvenile" as it is called
> in musical theater), which was played by Gerry Sont (an old friend of
> mine from high school, now a soap star in Australia). It didn't happen
> at the time, although the dancing required for that particular character
> was incidental, unlike the Cagelles, who had some pretty big and fancy
> dancing.
>
> Robyn Coburn
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 06:17:21 EST
> From: Halo5964@...
> Subject: spanking
>
> No one would consider it acceptable if I spanked, yanked or swatted an
> elderly parent in my care.
> No one would think it was ok if I spanked or swatted a coworker, doctor,
> teacher, or bus driver if they were not behaving the way I liked.
> No one would think it was ok if a man turned his wife over his knee in
> Wal-mart and let her have it.
> That's abuse. But the littlest people can get that treatment and we're
> still calling it parenting.
>
>
> Thanks, Deb, for writing it this way. Sure does make things quite a bit
> clearer, doesn't it?
>
> Carol
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:20:38 EST
> From: SandraDodd@...
> Subject: Re: What is abuse? Who decides?
>
> Deb, Thanks! I've added this to the collection, and it's here:
>
> http://sandradodd.com/s/pressure
>
> That page has a link to "Christians for Non-Violent Parenting" (not part
of
> my site).
>
>
> << << Let's not forget that different people have different ideas of
> abuse.>>
>
> Only regarding children.
>
> No one would consider it acceptable if I spanked, yanked or swatted an
> elderly parent in my care.
> No one would think it was ok if I spanked or swatted a coworker, doctor,
> teacher, or bus driver if they were not behaving the way I liked.
> No one would think it was ok if a man turned his wife over his knee in
> Wal-mart and let her have it.
> That's abuse. But the littlest people can get that treatment and we're
> still calling it parenting.
>
> Deb >>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:49:39 EST
> From: arcarpenter@...
> Subject: Re: What is abuse? Who decides?
>
> In a message dated 10/31/03 8:23:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> SandraDodd@... writes:
> > No one would think it was ok if a man turned his wife over his knee in
> > Wal-mart and let her have it.
>
> This was well said, and I'd like to follow up on it.
>
> I should say that I have spanked in the past, but it was never something I
> felt good about; I always knew that if I'd gotten to spanking, I'd
failed --
> failed to come up with a better solution to the "problem" (and I now
realize I
> was sometimes making problems where there weren't any by expecting certain
> behaviors), failed to control my own temper, failed to nurture myself and
my son so
> that we could both have what we needed. There was always a disconnect --
I
> felt horrible about what I'd done, but much of society seemed to think it
was
> okay, seemed to think that it was my right to do so as a parent. I've
been
> very confused up until now, to be honest.
>
> With that said, the response I could hear others making to Deb's comment
> about how we wouldn't treat adults that way: "Well, adults don't usually
refuse
> to get dressed; they don't throw tantrums in public. Adults don't usually
> hide under the clothes racks in Wal-mart and scare everyone by not coming
out
> when called. Adults don't repeatedly run out in front of cars and so
don't need
> to be taught a sharp lesson for their own safety. That's why we treat
kids
> differently."
>
> I have some ideas about the response to this, but I'd love to hear
others'.
> TIA.
>
> Peace,
> Amy
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
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In a message dated 10/31/03 11:52:30 AM, jlist@... writes:
<< Just wondering, what do you guys do if you observe abusive behavior in
public? Where is that line between intervening and not intervening, and if you
do intervene, what do you do or say? >>
The other day Holly and I were in Savers near the toys, and a young woman
(19-22 range?) was walking with a little girl, very little. 20 months? 2 yrs?
The little girl had a pony tail way up high, 2" of topknot, and the woman
said very sharply "COME HERE" and pulled her by that hair.
I said "DON'T pull her hair."
The woman looked around, had misunderstood me, and smiled kind of and said
"I didn't do it" (meaning, it seemed, put her hair up--I think she thought I
had said something about the little girl's hairdo and was saying someone else
had done it). I shook my head impatiently and said, "Don't pull her hair."
So then she held her hand and talked to her really nicely, and when they got
to the cart where an older woman (40's) and a little boy (5ish) were,
everybody was all sweet.
Holly figured it was the baby's aunt or something, not her mom.
I didn't even think before I said it. It wasn't a negotiable thing for me.
I told Holly I'll probably be shot some day for defending some stranger kid
and she just shrugged and smiled.
Sandra
<< Just wondering, what do you guys do if you observe abusive behavior in
public? Where is that line between intervening and not intervening, and if you
do intervene, what do you do or say? >>
The other day Holly and I were in Savers near the toys, and a young woman
(19-22 range?) was walking with a little girl, very little. 20 months? 2 yrs?
The little girl had a pony tail way up high, 2" of topknot, and the woman
said very sharply "COME HERE" and pulled her by that hair.
I said "DON'T pull her hair."
The woman looked around, had misunderstood me, and smiled kind of and said
"I didn't do it" (meaning, it seemed, put her hair up--I think she thought I
had said something about the little girl's hairdo and was saying someone else
had done it). I shook my head impatiently and said, "Don't pull her hair."
So then she held her hand and talked to her really nicely, and when they got
to the cart where an older woman (40's) and a little boy (5ish) were,
everybody was all sweet.
Holly figured it was the baby's aunt or something, not her mom.
I didn't even think before I said it. It wasn't a negotiable thing for me.
I told Holly I'll probably be shot some day for defending some stranger kid
and she just shrugged and smiled.
Sandra
[email protected]
<< Just wondering, what do you guys do if you observe abusive behavior in
public? Where is that line between intervening and not intervening, and if
you
do intervene, what do you do or say? >>
We visit Wally's several times a week and I often see parents having a melt
down. I am shocked at how many parents loose it and in public. I often see
parents walking out the door doing the shake, smack, nag shake thing. Sometimes
I have said "what a bitch" in passing and other times I say HEY knock that
off! Sometimes a look is all it takes. What bothers me is if they do it in
public what is happening at home?
When I was 21-22 and a single Mom I lived in a 10 building small housing
project. There was a rough looking family with a son that had ADD and some other
concerns (so the parents said). I would be at the clothes line and would hear
bang,slap,slap,slap Ouch no Mommy no! followed by more slaps. I wasn't positive
of what was happening and didn't want to jump the gun so when I herd it again
I walked up to their door. After talking to the Mom I walked back to my
apartment and called and reported them.
I saw her at Wally's (no wonder money is tight) last month. She told me they
finally took him away after he walked into court with shorts and dirty clothes
during the winter. He is 15 now. So at least ten years of abuse went by and
no one did anything. She told me he needed to go she couldn't handle him. I
was sick listening to her. She takes no responsibility for what she has done to
him.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
public? Where is that line between intervening and not intervening, and if
you
do intervene, what do you do or say? >>
We visit Wally's several times a week and I often see parents having a melt
down. I am shocked at how many parents loose it and in public. I often see
parents walking out the door doing the shake, smack, nag shake thing. Sometimes
I have said "what a bitch" in passing and other times I say HEY knock that
off! Sometimes a look is all it takes. What bothers me is if they do it in
public what is happening at home?
When I was 21-22 and a single Mom I lived in a 10 building small housing
project. There was a rough looking family with a son that had ADD and some other
concerns (so the parents said). I would be at the clothes line and would hear
bang,slap,slap,slap Ouch no Mommy no! followed by more slaps. I wasn't positive
of what was happening and didn't want to jump the gun so when I herd it again
I walked up to their door. After talking to the Mom I walked back to my
apartment and called and reported them.
I saw her at Wally's (no wonder money is tight) last month. She told me they
finally took him away after he walked into court with shorts and dirty clothes
during the winter. He is 15 now. So at least ten years of abuse went by and
no one did anything. She told me he needed to go she couldn't handle him. I
was sick listening to her. She takes no responsibility for what she has done to
him.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
<< Just wondering, what do you guys do if you observe abusive behavior in
public? Where is that line between intervening and not intervening, and if
you
do intervene, what do you do or say? >>
Sorry to post on this again but this has been a topic here several times
lately.
I was discussing beginning a local unschooling group with a friend who
Homeschools. I had said that I didn't want to attract those who trad HS or that
spanked esp ones who spank at the group as I would ask them to leave. I have been
to groups like this.
My friend said wait... Who are you to decide if that is ok? Who are you to
determine if it crosses the line of abuse? Their family is Christian and spanks
as they say that the bible says so. I think I rocked the boat a bit, I think
I knew I was.
She had a point but I still disagree. You dont spank a child one and you dont
spank because they are fussing and you dont want to hear it. How is that
biblical?
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
public? Where is that line between intervening and not intervening, and if
you
do intervene, what do you do or say? >>
Sorry to post on this again but this has been a topic here several times
lately.
I was discussing beginning a local unschooling group with a friend who
Homeschools. I had said that I didn't want to attract those who trad HS or that
spanked esp ones who spank at the group as I would ask them to leave. I have been
to groups like this.
My friend said wait... Who are you to decide if that is ok? Who are you to
determine if it crosses the line of abuse? Their family is Christian and spanks
as they say that the bible says so. I think I rocked the boat a bit, I think
I knew I was.
She had a point but I still disagree. You dont spank a child one and you dont
spank because they are fussing and you dont want to hear it. How is that
biblical?
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marjorie Kirk
> I was discussing beginning a local unschooling group with a friend whoor that
> Homeschools. I had said that I didn't want to attract those who trad HS
> spanked esp ones who spank at the group as I would ask them to leave. Ihave been
> to groups like this.I think if it's your group, you start it and run, you get to decide if
> My friend said wait... Who are you to decide if that is ok?
that's O.K.! Just like you get to decide who can be at your house. If they
violate the rules of your home, you have the right to ask them to leave. If
they want a home-schoolers spanking group, let them start their own!
That's my hot-head response, but it would probably be more beneficial to let
them stay, just tell them that spanking isn't allowed there. They might
stay and learn something.
marjorie
kayb85
> And when someone does hit another adult, they might be thinking atleast
> briefly "This is worth risking arrest for now," and then they takethe guy to the
> ground and hope there's someone to pull them back off if theadrenaline
> overtakes them.This is going a bit off topic, but the topic of abuse and the word
adrenaline triggered a memory. After listening to your peaceful
parenting tape, I've been having my boys breathe when they get upset,
and I've explained about oxygen and adrenaline. Well, one day I
overheard my 6 year old saying to my 4 year old, "Luke, you need to
breathe in some of that stuff that makes you calm down".
Dh and I were laughing about it later, because if someone overheard
him say that and decided to report us for it, I might have to explain
to a social worker exactly what stuff I'm having my boys breathe in
to calm them down. ;)
Sheila
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/31/03 1:51:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jlist@... writes:
child "threatened" with spanking for not being still in a stroller. I asked if
the child could have this little toy I had in my purse. The VERY YOUNG Mom said
sure and the child played for at least a few minutes.
I also have seen moms carrying a screaming child out of a store and I have
asked if they needed some help.
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jlist@... writes:
> Just wondering, what do you guys do if you observe abusive behavior inI have never seen anyone spank a child in public. I have however seen a
> public? Where is that line between intervening and not intervening, and if you
> do intervene, what do you do or say?
>
>
child "threatened" with spanking for not being still in a stroller. I asked if
the child could have this little toy I had in my purse. The VERY YOUNG Mom said
sure and the child played for at least a few minutes.
I also have seen moms carrying a screaming child out of a store and I have
asked if they needed some help.
Pam G
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/31/03 02:16:35 PM Central Standard Time, HMSL2@...
writes:
<< Just wondering, what do you guys do if you observe abusive behavior in
public? Where is that line between intervening and not intervening, and if
you
do intervene, what do you do or say? >>
###############
Today at Walmart the kids, Darin, and I were picking up some extra candy and
I needed cooking oil too. In that aisle a mom and dad and little boy were
standing where I needed to be and the boy was crying with his hands up over his
head. The mom was ignoring it and the dad was saying to the boy, using that
reverse psychology crap; "Keep crying! Keep crying! Why don't you act like a
spoiled brat instead of a little boy. That would be a good idea, be a brat." and
the little boy was saying; "I am a little boy! I'm not a brat! Don't call me
that!" This went on and on and the family wasn't moving and I was getting more
and more frustrated and hurting for the boy because this was a scene right out
of my childhood. (and I really just wanted my oil and to get out of the store.)
So when I realized that the boy with his hands over his head was there
because he knew a smack on the head was imminent and I saw the dad raise his hand
way up over his own head, I didn't think, I just grabbed his hand and said, You
will NOT hit this child, and you will stop berating him. Everyone in the aisle
was watching and another woman came up and said; "You have to be good and
gentle and nice to children." Then she dialed her cell phone and at the same time
handed him a card. She was from SRS. <g> I think that family might still be
down at the police station.
Usually, I say things like, Be nice or Stop, but today I don't know what came
over me. I think because kids here are out of school for parent teacher
conferences and it is Halloween so kids are excited, and parents are more stressed
than usual; I saw a bad situation that was about to turn ugly bad nasty. This
dad was truly about to swing his hand hard onto his child's head. I've seen
parents swat kids on the butt, I've seen parents smack hands and grab arms hard
and yank, I've seen parents pinch that soft spot on the back of kid's arms and
squeeze children's necks, but this guy was about to make a head shot that
would have rattled the boy's brains and left him with a headache from hell. I was
crying as we left the store and Darin who usually tells me to mind my own
business just hugged me and Moly and Jack were solemn and quiet all the way home.
That's my nasty story and it happened today and I am glad to have this group
to vent it to.
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
<< Just wondering, what do you guys do if you observe abusive behavior in
public? Where is that line between intervening and not intervening, and if
you
do intervene, what do you do or say? >>
###############
Today at Walmart the kids, Darin, and I were picking up some extra candy and
I needed cooking oil too. In that aisle a mom and dad and little boy were
standing where I needed to be and the boy was crying with his hands up over his
head. The mom was ignoring it and the dad was saying to the boy, using that
reverse psychology crap; "Keep crying! Keep crying! Why don't you act like a
spoiled brat instead of a little boy. That would be a good idea, be a brat." and
the little boy was saying; "I am a little boy! I'm not a brat! Don't call me
that!" This went on and on and the family wasn't moving and I was getting more
and more frustrated and hurting for the boy because this was a scene right out
of my childhood. (and I really just wanted my oil and to get out of the store.)
So when I realized that the boy with his hands over his head was there
because he knew a smack on the head was imminent and I saw the dad raise his hand
way up over his own head, I didn't think, I just grabbed his hand and said, You
will NOT hit this child, and you will stop berating him. Everyone in the aisle
was watching and another woman came up and said; "You have to be good and
gentle and nice to children." Then she dialed her cell phone and at the same time
handed him a card. She was from SRS. <g> I think that family might still be
down at the police station.
Usually, I say things like, Be nice or Stop, but today I don't know what came
over me. I think because kids here are out of school for parent teacher
conferences and it is Halloween so kids are excited, and parents are more stressed
than usual; I saw a bad situation that was about to turn ugly bad nasty. This
dad was truly about to swing his hand hard onto his child's head. I've seen
parents swat kids on the butt, I've seen parents smack hands and grab arms hard
and yank, I've seen parents pinch that soft spot on the back of kid's arms and
squeeze children's necks, but this guy was about to make a head shot that
would have rattled the boy's brains and left him with a headache from hell. I was
crying as we left the store and Darin who usually tells me to mind my own
business just hugged me and Moly and Jack were solemn and quiet all the way home.
That's my nasty story and it happened today and I am glad to have this group
to vent it to.
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tim and Maureen
Hey Nancy,
This makes me cry to read. I can see how upsetting it would be. Thank You from me for helping one child.
Maureen
This makes me cry to read. I can see how upsetting it would be. Thank You from me for helping one child.
Maureen
----- Original Message -----
From: Dnowens@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Abuse
In a message dated 10/31/03 02:16:35 PM Central Standard Time, HMSL2@...
writes:
<< Just wondering, what do you guys do if you observe abusive behavior in
public? Where is that line between intervening and not intervening, and if
you
do intervene, what do you do or say? >>
###############
Today at Walmart the kids, Darin, and I were picking up some extra candy and
I needed cooking oil too. In that aisle a mom and dad and little boy were
standing where I needed to be and the boy was crying with his hands up over his
head. The mom was ignoring it and the dad was saying to the boy, using that
reverse psychology crap; "Keep crying! Keep crying! Why don't you act like a
spoiled brat instead of a little boy. That would be a good idea, be a brat." and
the little boy was saying; "I am a little boy! I'm not a brat! Don't call me
that!" This went on and on and the family wasn't moving and I was getting more
and more frustrated and hurting for the boy because this was a scene right out
of my childhood. (and I really just wanted my oil and to get out of the store.)
So when I realized that the boy with his hands over his head was there
because he knew a smack on the head was imminent and I saw the dad raise his hand
way up over his own head, I didn't think, I just grabbed his hand and said, You
will NOT hit this child, and you will stop berating him. Everyone in the aisle
was watching and another woman came up and said; "You have to be good and
gentle and nice to children." Then she dialed her cell phone and at the same time
handed him a card. She was from SRS. <g> I think that family might still be
down at the police station.
Usually, I say things like, Be nice or Stop, but today I don't know what came
over me. I think because kids here are out of school for parent teacher
conferences and it is Halloween so kids are excited, and parents are more stressed
than usual; I saw a bad situation that was about to turn ugly bad nasty. This
dad was truly about to swing his hand hard onto his child's head. I've seen
parents swat kids on the butt, I've seen parents smack hands and grab arms hard
and yank, I've seen parents pinch that soft spot on the back of kid's arms and
squeeze children's necks, but this guy was about to make a head shot that
would have rattled the boy's brains and left him with a headache from hell. I was
crying as we left the store and Darin who usually tells me to mind my own
business just hugged me and Moly and Jack were solemn and quiet all the way home.
That's my nasty story and it happened today and I am glad to have this group
to vent it to.
~Nancy
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
coyote's corner
Thank you, Nancy.
The true definition of courage is action - even, no especially when you're frightened.
"Speak your mind - even if your voice shakes"
(I should know who said that - we sell the bumpersticker!
janis
Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
<www.coyotescorner.com>
401-438-7678
The true definition of courage is action - even, no especially when you're frightened.
"Speak your mind - even if your voice shakes"
(I should know who said that - we sell the bumpersticker!
janis
Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
<www.coyotescorner.com>
401-438-7678
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim and Maureen
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Abuse
Hey Nancy,
This makes me cry to read. I can see how upsetting it would be. Thank You from me for helping one child.
Maureen
----- Original Message -----
From: Dnowens@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Abuse
In a message dated 10/31/03 02:16:35 PM Central Standard Time, HMSL2@...
writes:
<< Just wondering, what do you guys do if you observe abusive behavior in
public? Where is that line between intervening and not intervening, and if
you
do intervene, what do you do or say? >>
###############
Today at Walmart the kids, Darin, and I were picking up some extra candy and
I needed cooking oil too. In that aisle a mom and dad and little boy were
standing where I needed to be and the boy was crying with his hands up over his
head. The mom was ignoring it and the dad was saying to the boy, using that
reverse psychology crap; "Keep crying! Keep crying! Why don't you act like a
spoiled brat instead of a little boy. That would be a good idea, be a brat." and
the little boy was saying; "I am a little boy! I'm not a brat! Don't call me
that!" This went on and on and the family wasn't moving and I was getting more
and more frustrated and hurting for the boy because this was a scene right out
of my childhood. (and I really just wanted my oil and to get out of the store.)
So when I realized that the boy with his hands over his head was there
because he knew a smack on the head was imminent and I saw the dad raise his hand
way up over his own head, I didn't think, I just grabbed his hand and said, You
will NOT hit this child, and you will stop berating him. Everyone in the aisle
was watching and another woman came up and said; "You have to be good and
gentle and nice to children." Then she dialed her cell phone and at the same time
handed him a card. She was from SRS. <g> I think that family might still be
down at the police station.
Usually, I say things like, Be nice or Stop, but today I don't know what came
over me. I think because kids here are out of school for parent teacher
conferences and it is Halloween so kids are excited, and parents are more stressed
than usual; I saw a bad situation that was about to turn ugly bad nasty. This
dad was truly about to swing his hand hard onto his child's head. I've seen
parents swat kids on the butt, I've seen parents smack hands and grab arms hard
and yank, I've seen parents pinch that soft spot on the back of kid's arms and
squeeze children's necks, but this guy was about to make a head shot that
would have rattled the boy's brains and left him with a headache from hell. I was
crying as we left the store and Darin who usually tells me to mind my own
business just hugged me and Moly and Jack were solemn and quiet all the way home.
That's my nasty story and it happened today and I am glad to have this group
to vent it to.
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kayb85
I agree about not letting parents abuse kids, yet I wonder where the
line is between speaking your mind and keeping your mouth shut. I
know how annoyed I get when people say stuff about unschoolers being
neglectful. I had a friend who was reported to social services, and
one of the complaints was, "Those kids are never in school". She had
been on bed rest with a difficult pregnancy and her house got really
messy, and she had to live with a social service nightmare that
traumatized her and her kids. Her kids had to worry about being
taken away from mommy and daddy. :( So maybe sometimes we do more
harm by speaking our minds?
Sheila
line is between speaking your mind and keeping your mouth shut. I
know how annoyed I get when people say stuff about unschoolers being
neglectful. I had a friend who was reported to social services, and
one of the complaints was, "Those kids are never in school". She had
been on bed rest with a difficult pregnancy and her house got really
messy, and she had to live with a social service nightmare that
traumatized her and her kids. Her kids had to worry about being
taken away from mommy and daddy. :( So maybe sometimes we do more
harm by speaking our minds?
Sheila
> The true definition of courage is action - even, no especially whenyou're frightened.
>Thank You from me for helping one child.
> "Speak your mind - even if your voice shakes"
> (I should know who said that - we sell the bumpersticker!
> janis
> Coyotes Corner
> Very Cool Stuff for the World
> <www.coyotescorner.com>
> 401-438-7678
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim and Maureen
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 6:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Abuse
>
>
> Hey Nancy,
>
> This makes me cry to read. I can see how upsetting it would be.
>HMSL2@a...
> Maureen
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dnowens@a...
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 2:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Abuse
>
>
> In a message dated 10/31/03 02:16:35 PM Central Standard Time,
> writes:behavior in
> << Just wondering, what do you guys do if you observe abusive
> public? Where is that line between intervening and notintervening, and if
> youextra candy and
> do intervene, what do you do or say? >>
> ###############
>
> Today at Walmart the kids, Darin, and I were picking up some
> I needed cooking oil too. In that aisle a mom and dad andlittle boy were
> standing where I needed to be and the boy was crying with hishands up over his
> head. The mom was ignoring it and the dad was saying to theboy, using that
> reverse psychology crap; "Keep crying! Keep crying! Why don'tyou act like a
> spoiled brat instead of a little boy. That would be a goodidea, be a brat." and
> the little boy was saying; "I am a little boy! I'm not a brat!Don't call me
> that!" This went on and on and the family wasn't moving and Iwas getting more
> and more frustrated and hurting for the boy because this was ascene right out
> of my childhood. (and I really just wanted my oil and to getout of the store.)
> So when I realized that the boy with his hands over his headwas there
> because he knew a smack on the head was imminent and I saw thedad raise his hand
> way up over his own head, I didn't think, I just grabbed hishand and said, You
> will NOT hit this child, and you will stop berating him.Everyone in the aisle
> was watching and another woman came up and said; "You have tobe good and
> gentle and nice to children." Then she dialed her cell phoneand at the same time
> handed him a card. She was from SRS. <g> I think that familymight still be
> down at the police station.know what came
>
> Usually, I say things like, Be nice or Stop, but today I don't
> over me. I think because kids here are out of school for parentteacher
> conferences and it is Halloween so kids are excited, andparents are more stressed
> than usual; I saw a bad situation that was about to turn uglybad nasty. This
> dad was truly about to swing his hand hard onto his child'shead. I've seen
> parents swat kids on the butt, I've seen parents smack handsand grab arms hard
> and yank, I've seen parents pinch that soft spot on the back ofkid's arms and
> squeeze children's necks, but this guy was about to make a headshot that
> would have rattled the boy's brains and left him with aheadache from hell. I was
> crying as we left the store and Darin who usually tells me tomind my own
> business just hugged me and Moly and Jack were solemn and quietall the way home.
>have this group
> That's my nasty story and it happened today and I am glad to
> to vent it to.group.
> ~Nancy
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this
>http://www.unschooling.com
> To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
>Service.
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>group.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this
>http://www.unschooling.com
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>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
>Service.
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Same here! I cried as I read this to my husband. Laura
Hey Nancy,
This makes me cry to read. I can see how upsetting it would be. Thank You
from me for helping one child.
Maureen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hey Nancy,
This makes me cry to read. I can see how upsetting it would be. Thank You
from me for helping one child.
Maureen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/31/2003 3:08:30 PM Mountain Standard Time,
sheran@... writes:
Well, one day I
overheard my 6 year old saying to my 4 year old, "Luke, you need to
breathe in some of that stuff that makes you calm down".
Kirby has an over-calm mode nowadays. TOTALLY slow and laid back.
The other day Holly just SCREECHED and I thought she had poked herself in the
eye or something but she had bitten the inside of her cheek. It sounded like
she was dying. She was really scared. I was trying to comfort her and
figure out what to do. (You want ice? Ice water? Popsicle? To lie down?)
Kirby sauntered in all the way around so he was facing her straight on and
said at about Joh-Wayne speed: "I don't see how it's going to feel any better
if you don't breathe."
I had forgotten my own best suggestion! Once in a while, though, ice water
trumps breathing.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sheran@... writes:
Well, one day I
overheard my 6 year old saying to my 4 year old, "Luke, you need to
breathe in some of that stuff that makes you calm down".
Kirby has an over-calm mode nowadays. TOTALLY slow and laid back.
The other day Holly just SCREECHED and I thought she had poked herself in the
eye or something but she had bitten the inside of her cheek. It sounded like
she was dying. She was really scared. I was trying to comfort her and
figure out what to do. (You want ice? Ice water? Popsicle? To lie down?)
Kirby sauntered in all the way around so he was facing her straight on and
said at about Joh-Wayne speed: "I don't see how it's going to feel any better
if you don't breathe."
I had forgotten my own best suggestion! Once in a while, though, ice water
trumps breathing.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/31/2003 3:11:05 PM Mountain Standard Time,
mkirk@... writes:
That's my hot-head response, but it would probably be more beneficial to let
them stay, just tell them that spanking isn't allowed there.
Someone in our LLL babysitting co-op swatted her younger son (he was three or
four) once at a meeting. A couple of the mos were willing to pretend they
didn't see it. Others wanted me to talk to her also I did. The thing I said
that I could best stand by was that I didn't want my kids to be around that kind
of behavior and if she would do that at a meeting with everyone else in the
room I was guessing it might be worse other times.
So she hated me. (It was embarrassment, I think.) but she also quit spanking
as far as any of us knew, afterwards.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mkirk@... writes:
That's my hot-head response, but it would probably be more beneficial to let
them stay, just tell them that spanking isn't allowed there.
Someone in our LLL babysitting co-op swatted her younger son (he was three or
four) once at a meeting. A couple of the mos were willing to pretend they
didn't see it. Others wanted me to talk to her also I did. The thing I said
that I could best stand by was that I didn't want my kids to be around that kind
of behavior and if she would do that at a meeting with everyone else in the
room I was guessing it might be worse other times.
So she hated me. (It was embarrassment, I think.) but she also quit spanking
as far as any of us knew, afterwards.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>Wow, Nancy! Brave and kind woman. I'm so glad somebody was there for that
>So when I realized that the boy with his hands over his head was there
>because he knew a smack on the head was imminent and I saw the dad raise
>his hand
>way up over his own head, I didn't think, I just grabbed his hand and
>said, You
>will NOT hit this child, and you will stop berating him. Everyone in the
>aisle
>was watching and another woman came up and said; "You have to be good and
>gentle and nice to children." Then she dialed her cell phone and at the
>same time
>handed him a card. She was from SRS. <g> I think that family might still be
>down at the police station.
child.
Tia
Julie
Laura wrote:
<<[...] I saw her at Wally's (no wonder money is tight) last month. She told me they finally took him away after he walked into court with shorts and dirty clothes during the winter. He is 15 now. So at least ten years of abuse went by and no one did anything. She told me he needed to go she couldn't handle him. I was sick listening to her. She takes no responsibility for what she has done to him.>>
I just can't imagine treating another person the way this mother treated her child. How do you suppose she was treated when she was a child?
Also, I've heard other people say that they approach the parent and ask if there's anything they can do to help. Anyone have any luck with this? (Maybe the parent might think this is condescending?)
Julie B.
<<[...] I saw her at Wally's (no wonder money is tight) last month. She told me they finally took him away after he walked into court with shorts and dirty clothes during the winter. He is 15 now. So at least ten years of abuse went by and no one did anything. She told me he needed to go she couldn't handle him. I was sick listening to her. She takes no responsibility for what she has done to him.>>
I just can't imagine treating another person the way this mother treated her child. How do you suppose she was treated when she was a child?
Also, I've heard other people say that they approach the parent and ask if there's anything they can do to help. Anyone have any luck with this? (Maybe the parent might think this is condescending?)
Julie B.
----- Original Message -----
From: HMSL2@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Abuse
<< Just wondering, what do you guys do if you observe abusive behavior in
public? Where is that line between intervening and not intervening, and if
you
do intervene, what do you do or say? >>
We visit Wally's several times a week and I often see parents having a melt
down. I am shocked at how many parents loose it and in public. I often see
parents walking out the door doing the shake, smack, nag shake thing. Sometimes
I have said "what a bitch" in passing and other times I say HEY knock that
off! Sometimes a look is all it takes. What bothers me is if they do it in
public what is happening at home?
When I was 21-22 and a single Mom I lived in a 10 building small housing
project. There was a rough looking family with a son that had ADD and some other
concerns (so the parents said). I would be at the clothes line and would hear
bang,slap,slap,slap Ouch no Mommy no! followed by more slaps. I wasn't positive
of what was happening and didn't want to jump the gun so when I herd it again
I walked up to their door. After talking to the Mom I walked back to my
apartment and called and reported them.
I saw her at Wally's (no wonder money is tight) last month. She told me they
finally took him away after he walked into court with shorts and dirty clothes
during the winter. He is 15 now. So at least ten years of abuse went by and
no one did anything. She told me he needed to go she couldn't handle him. I
was sick listening to her. She takes no responsibility for what she has done to
him.
Laura
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie
<<I was discussing beginning a local unschooling group with a friend who
Homeschools. I had said that I didn't want to attract those who trad HS or that spanked esp ones who spank at the group as I would ask them to leave. I have been to groups like this.
My friend said wait... Who are you to decide if that is ok? Who are you to
determine if it crosses the line of abuse? Their family is Christian and spanks as they say that the bible says so. I think I rocked the boat a bit, I think I knew I was.
She had a point but I still disagree. You dont spank a child one and you dont spank because they are fussing and you dont want to hear it. How is that biblical?>>
Perhaps you could spank her at one of the meetings and see how she reacts? :)
Julie B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Homeschools. I had said that I didn't want to attract those who trad HS or that spanked esp ones who spank at the group as I would ask them to leave. I have been to groups like this.
My friend said wait... Who are you to decide if that is ok? Who are you to
determine if it crosses the line of abuse? Their family is Christian and spanks as they say that the bible says so. I think I rocked the boat a bit, I think I knew I was.
She had a point but I still disagree. You dont spank a child one and you dont spank because they are fussing and you dont want to hear it. How is that biblical?>>
Perhaps you could spank her at one of the meetings and see how she reacts? :)
Julie B.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/31/2003 5:05:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< Just wondering, what do you guys do if you observe abusive behavior in
public? Where is that line between intervening and not intervening, and if
you
do intervene, what do you do or say? >>
****************************
One thing I have often found to be extremely effective is to just stare at
bad parental behavior. It's pretty rare that a parent will continue to hit or
berate a child with someone pointedly watching. I learned that when I was doing
an internship at a museum, and our supervisor suggested that staff do this.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
<< Just wondering, what do you guys do if you observe abusive behavior in
public? Where is that line between intervening and not intervening, and if
you
do intervene, what do you do or say? >>
****************************
One thing I have often found to be extremely effective is to just stare at
bad parental behavior. It's pretty rare that a parent will continue to hit or
berate a child with someone pointedly watching. I learned that when I was doing
an internship at a museum, and our supervisor suggested that staff do this.
Kathryn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/1/03 6:35:10 AM, jlist@... writes:
<< Perhaps you could spank her at one of the meetings and see how she reacts?
:) >>
You can't spank people you don't own.
I think spanking is worse in the southern U.S. because they used to be able
to own other people and now they can't. Or now they've transferred to
children.
Sometimes I'm stunned beyond breathing for a second by what my brother-in-law
(married into South Carolina) says and does regarding his two boys who are
about Kirby and Marty's age. A family here in town where the dad's from North
Carolina and Houston before here has big problems with the dad's
inflexibility and demands (and they're of formerly-owned lines, which makes it worse, and
in Atwon Fisher a certain book is named and the mom said "We have that book,"
and I said "Put it out on the coffee table!"). A
military-several-generations-both-sides family I know from Alabama (they came here a while and went back
there) withheld birthday cake from every kid at a six-yr-old's party until they
(each of them) finished their celery and carrot sticks. My kids too! And
their kids were crazy and sneaky and loud until the parents' faces appeared
and then they were deflated "yes sir" zombies.
Having seen how ugly that can be, I try to just turn my back on it and stand
between my kids and "it."
Sandra
<< Perhaps you could spank her at one of the meetings and see how she reacts?
:) >>
You can't spank people you don't own.
I think spanking is worse in the southern U.S. because they used to be able
to own other people and now they can't. Or now they've transferred to
children.
Sometimes I'm stunned beyond breathing for a second by what my brother-in-law
(married into South Carolina) says and does regarding his two boys who are
about Kirby and Marty's age. A family here in town where the dad's from North
Carolina and Houston before here has big problems with the dad's
inflexibility and demands (and they're of formerly-owned lines, which makes it worse, and
in Atwon Fisher a certain book is named and the mom said "We have that book,"
and I said "Put it out on the coffee table!"). A
military-several-generations-both-sides family I know from Alabama (they came here a while and went back
there) withheld birthday cake from every kid at a six-yr-old's party until they
(each of them) finished their celery and carrot sticks. My kids too! And
their kids were crazy and sneaky and loud until the parents' faces appeared
and then they were deflated "yes sir" zombies.
Having seen how ugly that can be, I try to just turn my back on it and stand
between my kids and "it."
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/1/03 6:36:19 AM, KathrynJB@... writes:
<< One thing I have often found to be extremely effective is to just stare at
bad parental behavior. It's pretty rare that a parent will continue to hit or
berate a child with someone pointedly watching. >>
Holly is GREAT at that, and lately she has taken to saying to me without
whispering things like "She's not a very good mom," or "That poor kid! He was just
looking at it." She just uses a tone and volume as though they were a movie
or otherwise not present and hearing. The other day when a mom was saying NO,
stand right here, leave that alone, blah in a check-out line, Holly said
"That is so sad."
Sandra
<< One thing I have often found to be extremely effective is to just stare at
bad parental behavior. It's pretty rare that a parent will continue to hit or
berate a child with someone pointedly watching. >>
Holly is GREAT at that, and lately she has taken to saying to me without
whispering things like "She's not a very good mom," or "That poor kid! He was just
looking at it." She just uses a tone and volume as though they were a movie
or otherwise not present and hearing. The other day when a mom was saying NO,
stand right here, leave that alone, blah in a check-out line, Holly said
"That is so sad."
Sandra
[email protected]
<< Anyone have any luck with this? (Maybe the parent might think this is
condescending?) >>
What are the options? What's the value?
If someone's being violent to a child and someone who knows better offers to
help it IS kind of condescending, but it can't be helped. The bad kind of
condescending is the ignorant accidental kind by the socially inept. To leave a
child in pain or danger while we consider whether we want to risk offending a
mom who might feel she was being condescended to is too much thinking about
the feelings of adults at the expense of children.
Sandra
condescending?) >>
What are the options? What's the value?
If someone's being violent to a child and someone who knows better offers to
help it IS kind of condescending, but it can't be helped. The bad kind of
condescending is the ignorant accidental kind by the socially inept. To leave a
child in pain or danger while we consider whether we want to risk offending a
mom who might feel she was being condescended to is too much thinking about
the feelings of adults at the expense of children.
Sandra
[email protected]
I remember many years ago when I had to stop my dog from attacking someone
who was spanking a little child for running from them. She was very upset.
Even today, if my boys are wrestling and they start hitting each other she will
try to pull them apart and gets very agitated.
Dogs are sometimes smarter than people.
Cathy
who was spanking a little child for running from them. She was very upset.
Even today, if my boys are wrestling and they start hitting each other she will
try to pull them apart and gets very agitated.
Dogs are sometimes smarter than people.
Cathy
Brian and Kathy Stamp
"Heck I don't even spank the dog!"
I laughed at this line. My mother a wonderful dog lover always told me you should never hit a dog, as you could make it timid and cause it to bite etc. But she never had any problem telling me when she'd see small children acting up that a "good swat on the behind would cure them" of whatever wrongs they did.
Kathy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I laughed at this line. My mother a wonderful dog lover always told me you should never hit a dog, as you could make it timid and cause it to bite etc. But she never had any problem telling me when she'd see small children acting up that a "good swat on the behind would cure them" of whatever wrongs they did.
Kathy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brian and Kathy Stamp
My main concern with intervening in such cases is I have often seen parents get angrier by someone's comments or questions and then the poor children are left with even angrier parents when they get to the car. The parents feel embarrassed and take that out on the kids.
Kathy
Kathy
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Abuse
<< Anyone have any luck with this? (Maybe the parent might think this is
condescending?) >>
What are the options? What's the value?
If someone's being violent to a child and someone who knows better offers to
help it IS kind of condescending, but it can't be helped. The bad kind of
condescending is the ignorant accidental kind by the socially inept. To leave a
child in pain or danger while we consider whether we want to risk offending a
mom who might feel she was being condescended to is too much thinking about
the feelings of adults at the expense of children.
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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In a message dated 11/1/03 9:29:32 AM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
"don't" to the parent. That's just my personality -- I'm not saying this solution
is right for all people in all situations. If I can, I want to use the
opportunity to show the parent a way to stop (for the kid's sake and also for their
own sake).
When I ask if I can help, I mean just that -- maybe I can help take the
stress out of the situation. Sometimes I can see that an parent is feeling pulled
too many ways at once (trying to get shopping done, trying to stop the whining
of the child, worrying about what they can afford). I've been there, and
I've felt frazzled by it -- I've had to work hard to control myself from yelling.
If I can entertain the child for a few minutes so the parent can check the
prices on the meat and figure out which one she can afford, then my offer of
help may work. It may also model that she can ask for help in similar
situations, or that she can try different approaches with her child to make the
situation better.
It's kind of a "It takes a village" approach (though not the Hilary Clinton
version, where the government is the village). I had to learn these skills --
I think other parents can learn them, too. I realize that my interaction with
them will not entirely change their parenting style, but it may be a
beginning. I can hope so, anyway.
Peace,
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> If someone's being violent to a child and someone who knows better offersAsking if I can help is a much more natural response for me than saying
> to
> help it IS kind of condescending, but it can't be helped. The bad kind of
> condescending is the ignorant accidental kind by the socially inept. To
> leave a
> child in pain or danger while we consider whether we want to risk offending
> a
> mom who might feel she was being condescended to is too much thinking about
> the feelings of adults at the expense of children.
"don't" to the parent. That's just my personality -- I'm not saying this solution
is right for all people in all situations. If I can, I want to use the
opportunity to show the parent a way to stop (for the kid's sake and also for their
own sake).
When I ask if I can help, I mean just that -- maybe I can help take the
stress out of the situation. Sometimes I can see that an parent is feeling pulled
too many ways at once (trying to get shopping done, trying to stop the whining
of the child, worrying about what they can afford). I've been there, and
I've felt frazzled by it -- I've had to work hard to control myself from yelling.
If I can entertain the child for a few minutes so the parent can check the
prices on the meat and figure out which one she can afford, then my offer of
help may work. It may also model that she can ask for help in similar
situations, or that she can try different approaches with her child to make the
situation better.
It's kind of a "It takes a village" approach (though not the Hilary Clinton
version, where the government is the village). I had to learn these skills --
I think other parents can learn them, too. I realize that my interaction with
them will not entirely change their parenting style, but it may be a
beginning. I can hope so, anyway.
Peace,
Amy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/1/2003 8:38:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jlist@... writes:
Also, I've heard other people say that they approach the parent and ask if
there's anything they can do to help. Anyone have any luck with this? (Maybe
the parent might think this is condescending?)
**************************************************
I think this is a great idea Julie. It doesn't put the person on the
defensive, and it models kindness and consideration and dealing fairly/appropriately
with the child.
I can remember many times when I was alone shopping with the kids when they
were tiny, fussing, arguing, etc, and I'd just feel like I'd lose it. How I
WISHED someone would have stepped in once in a while and just helped me get
through the check-out line, or at least back out to the car!
Nancy B. in WV
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jlist@... writes:
Also, I've heard other people say that they approach the parent and ask if
there's anything they can do to help. Anyone have any luck with this? (Maybe
the parent might think this is condescending?)
**************************************************
I think this is a great idea Julie. It doesn't put the person on the
defensive, and it models kindness and consideration and dealing fairly/appropriately
with the child.
I can remember many times when I was alone shopping with the kids when they
were tiny, fussing, arguing, etc, and I'd just feel like I'd lose it. How I
WISHED someone would have stepped in once in a while and just helped me get
through the check-out line, or at least back out to the car!
Nancy B. in WV
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/1/03 4:36:47 PM, bstamp@... writes:
<< My main concern with intervening in such cases is I have often seen
parents get angrier by someone's comments or questions and then the poor children
are left with even angrier parents when they get to the car. The parents feel
embarrassed and take that out on the kids. >>
But maybe for the first time the kids have the idea that not all parents
would back their parents up.
Sandra
<< My main concern with intervening in such cases is I have often seen
parents get angrier by someone's comments or questions and then the poor children
are left with even angrier parents when they get to the car. The parents feel
embarrassed and take that out on the kids. >>
But maybe for the first time the kids have the idea that not all parents
would back their parents up.
Sandra
Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema
>My main concern with intervening in such cases is I have often seenUnless you can 'get' to the parents...
>parents get angrier by someone's comments or questions and then the poor
>children are left with even angrier parents when they get to the car. The
>parents feel embarrassed and take that out on the kids.
When my 14yo ds was a few months old, we lived next door to a Portuguese
family - a very extended family (and no, I don't know how they fit everyone
in the house.) Well, one night, my 3 month old ds was upset and
S-C-R-E-A-M-E-D for at least 5 or 6 hours straight - it seemed like it was
all night. Jiggling him didn't help. Singing didn't help. Nursing didn't
help. New nappies didn't help. Walkies didn't help. 'Riding' on the
drier didn't help. Nothing, but sustained, never-ending screaming. Why
didn't I have a happy baby? Why couldn't I get him to stop crying?!! I
became more and more frazzled wondering what the neighbors were thinking -
was I beating him? neglecting him? That I was a bad mommy 'cause he
wasn't a quiet perfect baby? When was there going to be a knock on the
door telling me to shut that kid up? It was 2 or 3 in the morning, after
all, with at least a dozen people trying to sleep just the other side of
ds's window! I felt awful (and really tired, cranky and depressed) the
following morning when the 80+ year old Grandma of this Portuguese family
made a beeline for us on the sidewalk and said, "Oh, so this must the
little Opera singer I heard through my window last night. He sang the most
beautiful arias. What a handsome and strong baby!"
I melted.
So now, when ever I see a mum who's about to fry over her screaming kid, I
grin and tell her that her child is a beautiful Opera singer, and how
strong and handsome! Not every mother gets a child with such healthy lungs!
On a slightly un-related note, when there's a child throwing a fit (without
screaming), I catch the parent's eye, give a conspiratorial look and say,
"I remember those days... Sometimes you just want to say, "Some people's
children!", eh? Ah, but I miss them being little like that. How old is
she?" "Having a tough day, is she?" (compliments follow) Usually, the
harried parent's more worried about what other folks in the store are
thinking than about what the kid needs to calm down. (Plus, it tends to
calm down the other shoppers standing nearby.)
Of course, both of these things are 'pre-blow-up' and would probably be
useless after a parent's already lost it.
HeidiWD
Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything. - Frank Dane