Julie Bogart

Please help me and my daughter. She is convinced that she
needs algebra because all her friends are studying it and she
wants to go to college. I don't mind her learning it and I don't
mind her studying with a text book if that's her choice. However,
she has zero interst in math and consequently retains nothing.
So when she does twelve (no exaggeration) workbooks of
fractions (pre-unschooling days) and encounters combining
fractions in her algebra book, she doesn't remember how to do
them. When I show her on paper to remind her how they are
done, she says she gets it and then proceeds to get every single
problem wrong on the page (30 problems) and doesn't even ask
herself if she's doing them right or not.

My husband said it's like pouring water into sand. Nothing is
sticking.

Here's the frustrating part. I don't give a rip if she does algebra.
She's clearly not ready for it and she uses me as a place to pour
her irritation and resentment about having to study math when I
offer help. I have no intention of being used as the target for her
anger.

I told her that she clearly only cares about "getting through" the
algebra and that that is no way to learn math. It won't even work.
Every part of math builds on retaining the previous part. Like a
foreign language.

But she won't give it up. So what do I do? Do I continue to spend
my time an hour a day going through math that I don't enjoy with
someone who isn't really learning it but thinks she's getting
through it? We have the teaching co. videos of algebra I which
are really good. But I'm the one learning, not her.

Help!

Julie

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/24/03 10:33:47 AM, julie@... writes:

<< I told her that she clearly only cares about "getting through" the

algebra and that that is no way to learn math. It won't even work.

Every part of math builds on retaining the previous part. Like a

foreign language.

>>

There's a computer game called "Algebra Blasters."
There's a video by a group called Standard Deviants" on algebra.

Maybe if it's not book-work she'll start to get it better.

Sandra

Mary

You didn't say how old your daughter is. Is it possible you can explain to
her about how everyone comes to things in their own time, and some not at
all. Explain that maybe she's just a few months or even years away from
"getting algebra" and the best thing is to put it down and maybe try again
later. That by doing this, if and when it becomes necessary (in her mind)
for her to learn it, it will be much easier for her than it is now.

Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com

Julie Bogart

--- In [email protected], "Mary"
<mummy124@b...> wrote:
> You didn't say how old your daughter is. Is it possible you can
explain to
> her about how everyone comes to things in their own time, and
some not at
> all. Explain that maybe she's just a few months or even years
away from
> "getting algebra" and the best thing is to put it down and maybe
try again
> later. That by doing this, if and when it becomes necessary (in
her mind)
> for her to learn it, it will be much easier for her than it is now.
>
> Mary B.
> http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com


Mary, she's 14. We have explained this to her over and over
again but she doesn't want to hear it. It bugs her that her friends
are doing algebra and that she isn't ro wouldn't be. I also think
it's less an issue of "gettingit" and more a lack of genuine
interest. She is clearly only doing the math for the sake of
fulfilling requirements. If she were getting it, fine. But since she
is not, it's like driving a truck without an accelerator--lots and lots
of pushing.

I think watching videos is a good idea too (like Sandra said) but
she doesn't seem to believe me that that is the same thing as
taking a course called algebra. Grrr. It irritates me that there are
these things called college admissions requirements...

Julie

Tia Leschke

If she really wanted to "get" algebra, she might want to try going through
the book Algebra unplugged / by Kenn Amdahl and Jim Loats. It really helped
me to "get it" but, having no real use for it, it still didn't stick. It's
written jointly by a reporter who had never really "gotten it", and a math
teacher who helped him to "get it".
leschke@...

"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where
there is no path and leave a trail."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

pam sorooshian

Maybe give her "Algebra Unplugged" to read - few numbers, all about
ideas. She won't be handicapped in understanding it by not having down
the computational skills needed to "do" algebra.

-pam

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/24/2003 12:33:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
julie@... writes:

> But she won't give it up. So what do I do? Do I continue to spend
> my time an hour a day going through math that I don't enjoy with
> someone who isn't really learning it but thinks she's getting
> through it? We have the teaching co. videos of algebra I which
> are really good. But I'm the one learning, not her.
>
> Help!
>
>

Julie,

I'm taking a deep breath here before I say anything slightly resembling MATH
advice (from past experience) but we are going through the same thing here at
my house.

My daughter says (sometimes very loudly) that she WANTS to learn this. I
have no interest in the math as a MATH, I've tried, I really have. I struggled
through it in HS and College but I hated every second of it, cried often in
fact because the concepts so made no sense to me.

I could GET answers in my head but couldn't put down the steps on paper which
is what every single teacher DEMANDED be done. I guess if you got it right,
even in front of them, in your HEAD it was cheating somehow.

I've gotten some of the computer games some on the list recommended. She
likes them, she plays them. But she wants that BOOK algebra, that big ugly book
that practically gives me the shakes to think about.

She just thinks I don't really care about her learning this.

Currently this is my solution, I got one of those very fancy (and expensive)
calculators. We looked at the very thick booklet that comes with it. We had
to learn how to use the thing, but any algebra problem she can find can be
solved by the calculator thus far.

Right now, she's thinking that the calculator is cool, way less stress, the
same answer and not remembering things that really make no sense to her right
now.

I'm thinking I'm really happy that there are not all these moments of
frustration, anger and tears over something that I can't help her conquer. She has
thought about taking an Algebra class but hasn't really made up her mind yet if
that's a good thing or not.

While the calculator is the only suggestion that I can offer you, I do
understand how frustrating this is and how unhappy it can make a child that isn't
grasping or retaining the concepts.

Cait would look at something we'd worked on and say "YEAH I get it!" and then
proceed, just like your daughter to get all the problems wrong.

We did order a book from Amazon last week that was recommended here about
math, but it's a story type book not figures and such I believe, we haven't
gotten it yet. Maybe if she sees it in a way besides figures she might have some
awakening that she is looking for.

Best of luck to you, I so understand how you feel.

glena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kimberly Fry

"Algebra The Easy Way" by Douglas Downing -- It's written in the form of a novel, but it also has a few practice problems.

Kim

pam sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
Maybe give her "Algebra Unplugged" to read - few numbers, all about
ideas. She won't be handicapped in understanding it by not having down
the computational skills needed to "do" algebra.

-pam


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fetteroll

Carl and Kat are going through Painless Algebra and they both really like
her style of writing and the problems. I've only seen one problem so far
that involved fractions. All the rest have been whole numbers so the focus
is on the patterns and not the arithmetic.

She's also written a Painless Geometry book. (But not the other Painless
books in the series.)

(BTW, there's a Painless Fraction book too, but no guarantee that it's
written as friendly.)

They didn't much like the style of Algebra Unplugged since neither of them
has albegra phobia. Carl said he was doing too much editing reading it to
Kat to cut out the reassurances that it's okay to not like math. But that
might be just what your daughter needs!

Joyce

[email protected]

I know this is probably frustrating because I'm going to give another
suggestion, but have you ever seen the "Key To" booklets? We struggled for years
through Saxon, it was like pulling teeth. Then a friend suggested the "Key To"
books and my kids actually like doing them. They feel like your daughter, that
they need math and want math, but they are actually enjoying it and really
learning.

I know Key To makes a Geometry and an Algebra, but my kids have not gone that
far yet. I bought all the basic sets and they chose to work together on the
measuring one first. They tried picking and choosing what they wanted to work
on but felt they were getting too mixed up.

Nancy B. in WV


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

My 13 yo dd goes through this sometimes too - the "I gotta learn
algebra" phase - because of a ps friend who is highly gifted in math and
science. I got her the type of algebra book she said she wanted, told
her I'd help if she needed it. After a couple of weeks of frustration -
not because she couldn't do it, but because she found it boring - we sat
down and talked. We discussed why she wanted to do it - and it was
because of her friend and she felt like she was "behind". We talked
about where she wants to go, and how she can get there. She wants to be,
probably an actress, maybe a cartoonist (animator, creator, writer), or
television journalist. She probably wants to go to college. I pointed
out that she could wait until she's 16, take algebra at the community
college. Why waste time now, if she has other things to do, and this,
which she isn't really interested in, can wait? We also talked about
using math in everyday life. --- she likes to cook, play board games,
use the computer, put up websites, art -- she uses plenty of math, is
comfortable with arithmetic, etc. I'm a former math teacher, and as far
as I can see, she's doing fine. Some 13 yo's are taking a watered down
algebra in school, most are still slogging through arithmetic and hating
it. When I taught algebra, the biggest problem was weak arithmetic, not
the algebra itself. And arithmetic is much better remembered when it's
used and it makes sense - when the person understands it and gets it -
and not from remembering steps without really knowing what you're doing.
Arithmetic out of workbooks is a convenient way to teach a roomful of
kids, but not the best way to learn or understand math... imho.

Getting her to look at what she wants, long term and short term, and
looking for alternatives to working through a textbook on her own,
worked for us.

hth,
susan

On Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 01:00 PM, Mary wrote:

> You didn't say how old your daughter is. Is it possible you can explain
> to
> her about how everyone comes to things in their own time, and some not
> at
> all. Explain that maybe she's just a few months or even years away from
> "getting algebra" and the best thing is to put it down and maybe try
> again
> later. That by doing this, if and when it becomes necessary (in her
> mind)
> for her to learn it, it will be much easier for her than it is now.
>
> Mary B.
> http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Holly Shaltz

Julie writes:

<<She is convinced that she needs algebra because all her friends are
studying it and she wants to go to college. >>

How long has she been out of school? This sounds like maybe she needs
some more deschooling time. My younger son took to unschooling like a
duck to water, but my older one was very programmed by school (took him
out in 5th grade) to think things had to be done a 'schoolish' way to
count. Took 22 months to get past that--not that anyone was counting
<g>

Might it help to explain that algebra is, in essence, just a method of
working with variables, and point out how she does that already in real
life?

Does she normally learn new things from books, on her own, from watching
others, computer programs, or other methods? Providing a resource that
fits with her normal way of learning might help. So, if she learns by
watching others, you can talk about figuring out answers as you do
things, where you don't have all the information and a variety of
possibilities exist. From your description of what happened with the
workbooks, I would guess she at least needs her math in real-life
situations for it to sink in at this stage of her life.

Ask her where she thinks she would need algebra, and together maybe you
can come up with situations in which she would be personally motivated
to stick with it until it makes sense.

A pair of books I didn't see mentioned are _Elementary Algebra_ and
_Mathematics: A Human Affair_ by Harold Jacobs. Both are textbook
style, but you can do or ignore the exercises of course. He brings a
sense of humor and wonderfully creative ways of illustrating the way
math really works. Each chapter begins with an illustration from
classic comics or literature, or something drawn for the book, with a
reference to the material coming up in that chapter. It's really good
stuff, books we all enjoyed, and I hope my own daughter will dive into
at some point--but she's much more inclined toward 'unventing' things
her own way.

What would be the consequences of allowing her to work through this on
her own? I can't see myself sitting down an hour a day to relearn
algebra that I don't need and don't want because my child wants that, if
it's not doing any good. With my own kids, I'd have been inclined to
provide resources, then be a resource if I knew enough, but not sit down
with them unless I wanted to work on the same subject matter, but that
was my situation--I don't know yours.

Reading and rereading your post, I get the sense that she hasn't been
out of school very long (or, possibly, you haven't been unschooling very
long), and she hasn't found her self-learning legs yet. I wonder, does
she volunteer or work for money anywhere? That really helped my kids at
that age.

Just some random thoughts :) Maybe you can share some of these posts
with your daughter and see what she thinks.

Holly

Julie Bogart

Hi Nancy,

I'm not sure if you saw my post earlier. She did all the Key to
books except Geometry. She's done the entire Algebra set so
imagine my shock when she can't recognize any of the ideas this
time around!

We were told that the Keys to Algebra just wasn't enough
preparation for college admissions testing. I used it to prep her
so that she'd be ready for a more typical Algebra program, but
apparently that didn't work in her case. (She did all the decimal,
fraction and percent books and measurement!)

Grrr.

Worked great for my sons.

I'm going to look for Painless Algebra (thanks Joyce!) to
supplement the Saxon book and CD we have and take it very
slowly. We'll keep listening to the videos by Teaching Co. too.
One of my math friends here told me to simply do two problems
at a time and then check to see if she's getting it. She also
suggested keeping notecards of any rules she needs as she
goes so she can always refer back to how to do problems. I like
that idea a lot.

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks everyone!

Julie B

--- In [email protected],
CelticFrau@a... wrote:
> I know this is probably frustrating because I'm going to give
another
> suggestion, but have you ever seen the "Key To" booklets? We
struggled for years
> through Saxon, it was like pulling teeth. Then a friend
suggested the "Key To"
> books and my kids actually like doing them. They feel like your
daughter, that
> they need math and want math, but they are actually enjoying it
and really
> learning.
>
> I know Key To makes a Geometry and an Algebra, but my kids
have not gone that
> far yet. I bought all the basic sets and they chose to work
together on the
> measuring one first. They tried picking and choosing what they
wanted to work
> on but felt they were getting too mixed up.
>
> Nancy B. in WV
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Julie Bogart

--- In [email protected],
seanachai048@e... wrote:

When I taught algebra, the biggest problem was weak
arithmetic, not
> the algebra itself. And arithmetic is much better remembered
when it's
> used and it makes sense - when the person understands it
and gets it -
> and not from remembering steps without really knowing what
you're doing.

Susan, what advice do you have for helping her in arithmetic
then? She doesn't like to cook and has little interest in anything
scientific (I hoped she'd latch on to our family's passion for bird
watching--we're about to do Project Feeder Watch which
requires tallying and reporting results in a non-threatening
statistical style.)

Her real love is psychology. She and I are designing a mini
"study" of her friends and their temperaments. She will need to
make questionnaires and then tally those results... Hmmm. Had
forgotten that when I began this post.

Thinking, thinking...

I'm just going blank because math is so not a part of who I am
either. I didn't actually understand either fractions or my times
tables until I taught them to my oldest son seven years ago (and
I'm 41). Sometimes I think it's cruel irony that my dd would have
literature/writing parents! No math between us!

Julie B

Julie Bogart

--- In [email protected],
rubyprincesstsg@a... wrote:

>
> Cait would look at something we'd worked on and say "YEAH I
get it!" and then
> proceed, just like your daughter to get all the problems wrong.
>
> We did order a book from Amazon last week that was
recommended here about
> math, but it's a story type book not figures and such I believe,
we haven't
> gotten it yet. Maybe if she sees it in a way besides figures she
might have some
> awakening that she is looking for.
>
> Best of luck to you, I so understand how you feel.

Glena, I read your post to my husband last night. it sure feels
good to know that others have the same situation and that it may
not be a failing on my part. :) Lots of good ideas in this thread.
I'm feeling hopeful this a.m.

Julie B

[email protected]

tons and tons of math in pyschology. All that research. Lots of
statistics. As much as I do think that a solid understanding of math is
useful, it needs to be understood. Americans take lots of math in ps,
and Americans simply don't get math. You "get" it by using it. My advice
would be let her follow her passion for pyschology. As she needs the
math, she'll learn it. To learn math in a vacuum - which is what I think
texts and workbooks are - doesn't work unless you simply enjoy math. (I
did, but hated math class).
Arithmetic is everywhere - she'll learn it when she needs it, and she'll
need it in pysch.

As you pointed out, you didn't learn fractions until you needed to - to
teach it. :-) but the point is, you didn't learn it until you needed
it.

To "get" math, it helps to like numbers, puzzles, problems, relations,
patterns, etc. Games, puzzles, anything like that. Music is math -
quarter notes, half notes - the different rhythms and patterns. Sewing,
art, building, sports, surveys, money-- all math. When we go clothes
shopping, I give the kids how much they can spend. They can get one
outfit or a bunch, but they have a set amount. Lots of calculating going
on then!

I had to take a class in statistics for social sciences in college
(which is what pysch uses) - it was more about understanding what the
numbers were telling you than being able to "do the arithmetic". imho,
that's where math understanding really lies.

so I suppose my advice is, if her interest is pyschology, let her pursue
that. She'll learn the math as she needs it. And I do think math is like
reading, in that if you're not ready for it, you won't get it.

sort of a rambling post - hth,
susan



On Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 09:21 AM, Julie Bogart wrote:

> --- In [email protected],
> seanachai048@e... wrote:
>
> When I taught algebra, the biggest problem was weak
> arithmetic, not
> > the algebra itself. And arithmetic is much better remembered
> when it's
> > used and it makes sense - when the person understands it
> and gets it -
> > and not from remembering steps without really knowing what
> you're doing.
>
> Susan, what advice do you have for helping her in arithmetic
> then? She doesn't like to cook and has little interest in anything
> scientific (I hoped she'd latch on to our family's passion for bird
> watching--we're about to do Project Feeder Watch which
> requires tallying and reporting results in a non-threatening
> statistical style.)
>
> Her real love is psychology. She and I are designing a mini
> "study" of her friends and their temperaments. She will need to
> make questionnaires and then tally those results... Hmmm. Had
> forgotten that when I began this post.
>
> Thinking, thinking...
>
> I'm just going blank because math is so not a part of who I am
> either. I didn't actually understand either fractions or my times
> tables until I taught them to my oldest son seven years ago (and
> I'm 41). Sometimes I think it's cruel irony that my dd would have
> literature/writing parents! No math between us!
>
> Julie B
>
>

>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and
leave a trail.    
~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
change the world; indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
- Margaret Mead




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

catherine aceto

If you, yourself, are interested in reading more about math problem solving in order to facilitate her learning - I would recommend a book called "How to Solve It" by George Polya. I first read it in college and it transformed me from someone who thought she couldnt' do math, to someone who took a math minor.

-cat
----- Original Message -----
From: seanachai048@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: Algebra... I'm pulling my hair out.


tons and tons of math in pyschology. All that research. Lots of
statistics. As much as I do think that a solid understanding of math is
useful, it needs to be understood. Americans take lots of math in ps,
and Americans simply don't get math. You "get" it by using it. My advice
would be let her follow her passion for pyschology. As she needs the
math, she'll learn it. To learn math in a vacuum - which is what I think
texts and workbooks are - doesn't work unless you simply enjoy math. (I
did, but hated math class).
Arithmetic is everywhere - she'll learn it when she needs it, and she'll
need it in pysch.

As you pointed out, you didn't learn fractions until you needed to - to
teach it. :-) but the point is, you didn't learn it until you needed
it.

To "get" math, it helps to like numbers, puzzles, problems, relations,
patterns, etc. Games, puzzles, anything like that. Music is math -
quarter notes, half notes - the different rhythms and patterns. Sewing,
art, building, sports, surveys, money-- all math. When we go clothes
shopping, I give the kids how much they can spend. They can get one
outfit or a bunch, but they have a set amount. Lots of calculating going
on then!

I had to take a class in statistics for social sciences in college
(which is what pysch uses) - it was more about understanding what the
numbers were telling you than being able to "do the arithmetic". imho,
that's where math understanding really lies.

so I suppose my advice is, if her interest is pyschology, let her pursue
that. She'll learn the math as she needs it. And I do think math is like
reading, in that if you're not ready for it, you won't get it.

sort of a rambling post - hth,
susan



On Thursday, September 25, 2003, at 09:21 AM, Julie Bogart wrote:

> --- In [email protected],
> seanachai048@e... wrote:
>
> When I taught algebra, the biggest problem was weak
> arithmetic, not
> > the algebra itself. And arithmetic is much better remembered
> when it's
> > used and it makes sense - when the person understands it
> and gets it -
> > and not from remembering steps without really knowing what
> you're doing.
>
> Susan, what advice do you have for helping her in arithmetic
> then? She doesn't like to cook and has little interest in anything
> scientific (I hoped she'd latch on to our family's passion for bird
> watching--we're about to do Project Feeder Watch which
> requires tallying and reporting results in a non-threatening
> statistical style.)
>
> Her real love is psychology. She and I are designing a mini
> "study" of her friends and their temperaments. She will need to
> make questionnaires and then tally those results... Hmmm. Had
> forgotten that when I began this post.
>
> Thinking, thinking...
>
> I'm just going blank because math is so not a part of who I am
> either. I didn't actually understand either fractions or my times
> tables until I taught them to my oldest son seven years ago (and
> I'm 41). Sometimes I think it's cruel irony that my dd would have
> literature/writing parents! No math between us!
>
> Julie B
>
>

>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and
leave a trail.
~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
change the world; indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
- Margaret Mead




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Julie Bogart

--- In [email protected], Holly Shaltz
<holly@s...> wrote:
> Julie writes:
>
> <<She is convinced that she needs algebra because all her
friends are
> studying it and she wants to go to college. >>
>
> How long has she been out of school?

She's never been to school. She (just this fall) signed up for two
classes at the local high school because she felt gypped that
she's never experienced what everyone in the world has. It's
been a good experience because she is seeing firsthand just
how the system works and she is finding out she doesn't like it!

This sounds like maybe she needs
> some more deschooling time.

She's one of two in our home who freaked when we moved from
homeschooling to unschooling. She thought we might miss a
requirement. We have never been "school at home" types (we
were what I'd call relaxed or eclectic homeschoolers until this
list). And she loves having control over her life and learning
(she's written two novels, has prepared and acted Shakespeare
scenes for fun, she writes poetry, and she spends a huge
amount of time and energy on her friendships through email,
blurtys and IM). She also loves to watch movies over and over.
And her reading list would shame most college English majors
(she reads classics, modern, everything—all her own goals and
choices).

I think what is happening is that her peer group of
homeschoolers are "school-at-home" types and she compares
our life to theirs and worries that we aren't being conscientious.
She's beginning to see that this isn't so, but she is also nervous
about her weaknesses.

My younger son took to unschooling like a
> duck to water, but my older one was very programmed by
school (took him
> out in 5th grade) to think things had to be done a 'schoolish'
way to
> count. Took 22 months to get past that--not that anyone was
counting
> <g>

LOL. Thanks for the reminder. Perhaps she is still in transition.
We began radical unschooling last January.

>
> Just some random thoughts :) Maybe you can share some of
these posts
> with your daughter and see what she thinks.

I think I'll do that. Thanks!

Julie B

Betsy

**I think what is happening is that her peer group of
homeschoolers are "school-at-home" types and she compares
our life to theirs and worries that we aren't being conscientious.
She's beginning to see that this isn't so, but she is also nervous
about her weaknesses.**

I wish she could design a survey to see how much math most adults
remember and compare that to how much math they studied formally. My
theory is that most of what her peers are learning is going to evaporate
out of their brains pretty darn soon.

You could strew her path with some books about the psychology of
learning. I'm thinking The Book of Learning and Forgetting and Punished
by Rewards. (Just the section in the latter book about Kohn meeting
Skinner was really fascinating. And it fits in with our recent
discussion about whether human beings have free choice.)

Betsy

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In a message dated 9/25/2003 9:26:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
julie@... writes:

> Glena, I read your post to my husband last night. it sure feels
> good to know that others have the same situation and that it may
> not be a failing on my part. :) Lots of good ideas in this thread.
> I'm feeling hopeful this a.m.
>
> Julie B
>
The calculator things seems to help calm things here a bit. Showing her that
if she REALLY needs a problem solved that is beyond her comfort level, there
are OTHER ways of getting the answer.

Yesterday she was happily using the calculator to solve some algebra problems
then checking the answers in the back of the book and finding herself RIGHT
so it did build some confidence that algebra can be approached from different
directions.

My older daughter told Cait of a story of a teacher she had in fourth grade.
Sarah was having trouble with the times tables which everyone else seemed to
know or was whizzing through learning and she was frustrated. Her very cool
teacher told her not to worry about it and gave her this chart to tape to her
desk. He said he was a teacher and didn't know all of his YET! He said it
wasn't necessary to just memorize anything for the sake of memorizing, that
wasn't learning.

So today, she's happier or at least not dwelling on what she thinks she CAN'T
learn and being frustrated.

I'm waiting on some of these books I've ordered to come, maybe she'll enjoy
something she finds in one of them.

glena


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In a message dated 9/25/03 4:02:05 AM, fetteroll@... writes:

<< Carl said he was doing too much editing reading it to
Kat to cut out the reassurances that it's okay to not like math. >>

I bought a pants pattern once, to make men's dress pants.
The first half of the four full pages of pattern-sized directions were about
how easy it really was, not hard at all, people were wrong to be scared. And
the directions went on and on.

I never finished them. The reassurances scared me more than anything else!

Sandra

Kimberly Fry

>>>>> The calculator things seems to help calm things here a bit. Showing her that if she REALLY needs a problem solved that is beyond her comfort level, there are OTHER ways of getting the answer. <<<<<

In many schools, public and private, calculators are not only allowed for Algebra, but recommended by the teachers.


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In a message dated 9/25/2003 9:17:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,
julie@... writes:
I'm going to look for Painless Algebra (thanks Joyce!) to
supplement the Saxon book and CD we have and take it very
slowly. We'll keep listening to the videos by Teaching Co. too.
Painless Algebra looks good to me too. I may try to pick it up. I have
always viewed the "Key To" books as sort of a taste of algebra/geometry. I heard
the same thing also, that it's not enough for college interest. My oldest at
home is doing the Algebra II "Math U See" and likes it a lot....it has a video
with the guy explaining each section before you do the lesson. Cool, because
we can rewind it repeatedly until it sinks in and we understand it (I'm
trying to follow along too). If my other kids decide to pursue any higher math
after the Key To books (if they even decide to finish them), I think I'll get the
Algebra I and Geometry from Math U See too.

Nancy B. in WV


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