[email protected]

Hey, all this talk about nursing and co-sleeping and general baby stuff makes
me want to ask your opinion about my situation. You might remember my
constant complaining about breaking my ankle last year. Actually, I pretty much
shattered it. They had to use a plate with eight screws on the outside, three
pins on the inside and lots of fake bone plaster stuff to hold it all together.
Because my feet are deformed a bit from being en pointe at too young an age,
the surgeon couldn't move my foot into a neutral position, even while I was
under anesthesia. Therefore, my foot was pointed in the cast and I not have
very limited range of motion.

OK, enough background. I can walk and climb stairs, but going down stairs is
still difficult, I don't have the flexion. I saw my surgeon in March and we
talked about having all the metal removed in October, so I'll be making an
appointment to see him in the next few weeks. One of my midwives says any kind
of surgery, including general anesthesia, is ok in pregnancy. The other
midwife says she thinks a local anesthesia would be ok. The thing is, I'll probably
need to be on crutches to recover and would rather do that pregnant than with
an infant. On the other hand, the thought of my wee one getting all those
drugs in utero is pretty frightening.

There's a window between one and two years after surgery that you can have
your metal removed, otherwise the bone is too well grown around it. I'd like to
get the metal out to help with my range of motion. Besides, it's
uncomfortable to have all the metal in there, particularly when it's humid and when you
can no longer sleep on your belly.

Baby's due in January. Anyone have any experience with surgery during
pregnancy?

Thanks,
Elizabeth


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/21/03 09:36:40 AM Central Daylight Time, ejcrewe@...
writes:
There's a window between one and two years after surgery that you can have
your metal removed, otherwise the bone is too well grown around it. I'd like
to
get the metal out to help with my range of motion. Besides, it's
uncomfortable to have all the metal in there, particularly when it's humid
and when you
can no longer sleep on your belly.

Baby's due in January. Anyone have any experience with surgery during
pregnancy?

Thanks,
Elizabeth
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

What about an epidural? Other than that, I don't know. I do know that more
and more doctors are performing surgery on pregnant women and on babies inutero.
I think this is definitely a tough decision!

~Nancy~just my 2 cents.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

joylyn

Elizabeth,I don't have experience, but I know it can and does happen.
Contact your local LLL Leader and they can get informationf o ryou.

Joylyn

ejcrewe@... wrote:

> Hey, all this talk about nursing and co-sleeping and general baby
> stuff makes
> me want to ask your opinion about my situation. You might remember my
> constant complaining about breaking my ankle last year. Actually, I
> pretty much
> shattered it. They had to use a plate with eight screws on the
> outside, three
> pins on the inside and lots of fake bone plaster stuff to hold it all
> together.
> Because my feet are deformed a bit from being en pointe at too young
> an age,
> the surgeon couldn't move my foot into a neutral position, even while
> I was
> under anesthesia. Therefore, my foot was pointed in the cast and I
> not have
> very limited range of motion.
>
> OK, enough background. I can walk and climb stairs, but going down
> stairs is
> still difficult, I don't have the flexion. I saw my surgeon in March
> and we
> talked about having all the metal removed in October, so I'll be
> making an
> appointment to see him in the next few weeks. One of my midwives says
> any kind
> of surgery, including general anesthesia, is ok in pregnancy. The other
> midwife says she thinks a local anesthesia would be ok. The thing is,
> I'll probably
> need to be on crutches to recover and would rather do that pregnant
> than with
> an infant. On the other hand, the thought of my wee one getting all
> those
> drugs in utero is pretty frightening.
>
> There's a window between one and two years after surgery that you can
> have
> your metal removed, otherwise the bone is too well grown around it.
> I'd like to
> get the metal out to help with my range of motion. Besides, it's
> uncomfortable to have all the metal in there, particularly when it's
> humid and when you
> can no longer sleep on your belly.
>
> Baby's due in January. Anyone have any experience with surgery during
> pregnancy?
>
> Thanks,
> Elizabeth
>
>
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>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

lydia campbell

Elizabeth,

As a nurse anesthetist with 20 years experience, I
would suggest a spinal anesthetic. Baby gets no meds
that way.If your concerned about post operative pain
you could have an continuous epidural and get local
anesthetic for 24 hours. That would mean being in the
hospital and in bed.

I used that technique about a month ago for a pregnant
patient who shattered her ankle in a car accident.

Lydia, mom to Lyndsey who is taking a long overdue
nap.


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thinkspringblooms

--- In [email protected], ejcrewe@a... wrote:

... On the other hand, the thought of my wee one getting all those
> drugs in utero is pretty frightening...

> Baby's due in January. Anyone have any experience with surgery
during
> pregnancy?
>
> Thanks,
> Elizabeth


Hi Elizabeth. I lurk but have a story that's applicable. But first a
couple of questions: do you have help after the birth--an adult 24-7
or older child/ren who'll be able to carry the babe? If so, I'd
recommend foregoing the massive doses of drugs til after the birth,
when you can be sitting around recovering and others can bring the
babe to you when s/he's not in your arms already :~)

Here's why I say this: June 1994 I was 34 weeks pregnant with twins,
while mothering my other two kids who were 9 and 6 at the time. Had
a car accident (VERY long story) and ended up in labor, then
delivering (two perfectly healthy girls), with a broken right thumb
and a fractured right ankle. Surgery on thumb, (local AND general
anesthesia) was two days after birth. Pumped milk from moments after
birth til moments before local to allow bottle feeding by myself and
others for the two days that drugs were in my body. Pumped and threw
away during those two days. Then resumed breastfeeding. Hobbled
about on crutches (one specially made for persons with an injured
hand as well as foot) while children and hubby carted babies to and
fro in moses baskets when necessary.
Also, in my experience, being on crutches is WAAAYYY more challenging
when you center of gravity is "thrown off" by that gorgeous belly.
MUCH easier with only your own weight to throw around... :)

If it were me in your situation, and I knew I would have the help I'd
need, I would not allow a fetus to go through the trauma of
processing those drugs if it were not absolutely necessary. Even if
you don't have a lot of help, I think it's worth the inconvenience of
sitting around alot with your babe afterwards to protect that tiny
being from an unnecessary trauma. I guess you can tell I feel pretty
strongly about this... :~)

namaste,
cris

joylyn

Just something to remember...

Many mothers undergo surgery during pregnancy and immediately after,
have general or spinal or whatever, have major pain killers after birth,
and... breastfeed through it all. It's called a c-section.

If a drug is approved during use of a c-section and immediately after,
for baby and mom, then it should be fine when baby is a few weeks old,
or during pregnancy and especially when baby is months old.

I've had multiple surgeries during lacataion, all under general, using
pain killers, antibiotics, etc. as needed. Almost ALL drugs are safe
for breastfeeding, it's just a matter of finding the right one. There
is almost NEVER a need to pump and dump.

Joylyn

thinkspringblooms wrote:

> --- In [email protected], ejcrewe@a... wrote:
>
> ... On the other hand, the thought of my wee one getting all those
> > drugs in utero is pretty frightening...
>
> > Baby's due in January. Anyone have any experience with surgery
> during
> > pregnancy?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Elizabeth
>
>
> Hi Elizabeth. I lurk but have a story that's applicable. But first a
> couple of questions: do you have help after the birth--an adult 24-7
> or older child/ren who'll be able to carry the babe? If so, I'd
> recommend foregoing the massive doses of drugs til after the birth,
> when you can be sitting around recovering and others can bring the
> babe to you when s/he's not in your arms already :~)
>
> Here's why I say this: June 1994 I was 34 weeks pregnant with twins,
> while mothering my other two kids who were 9 and 6 at the time. Had
> a car accident (VERY long story) and ended up in labor, then
> delivering (two perfectly healthy girls), with a broken right thumb
> and a fractured right ankle. Surgery on thumb, (local AND general
> anesthesia) was two days after birth. Pumped milk from moments after
> birth til moments before local to allow bottle feeding by myself and
> others for the two days that drugs were in my body. Pumped and threw
> away during those two days. Then resumed breastfeeding. Hobbled
> about on crutches (one specially made for persons with an injured
> hand as well as foot) while children and hubby carted babies to and
> fro in moses baskets when necessary.
> Also, in my experience, being on crutches is WAAAYYY more challenging
> when you center of gravity is "thrown off" by that gorgeous belly.
> MUCH easier with only your own weight to throw around... :)
>
> If it were me in your situation, and I knew I would have the help I'd
> need, I would not allow a fetus to go through the trauma of
> processing those drugs if it were not absolutely necessary. Even if
> you don't have a lot of help, I think it's worth the inconvenience of
> sitting around alot with your babe afterwards to protect that tiny
> being from an unnecessary trauma. I guess you can tell I feel pretty
> strongly about this... :~)
>
> namaste,
> cris
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/21/2003 4:09:11 PM Central Standard Time,
ljkc94@... writes:


> I
> would suggest a spinal anesthetic

Thanks, Lydia. The whole thing just gives me the hee-bee-jee-bees! (How
does one spell that anyway?) But so does the metal in my ankle and the thought
of not being able to play on the floor with our new baby. So far, I've
procrastinated a month away trying to make the fricking phone call to set up the
check-up appointment...

Elizabeth


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/21/2003 4:36:47 PM Central Standard Time,
muddpies@... writes:


> Also, in my experience, being on crutches is WAAAYYY more challenging
> when you center of gravity is "thrown off" by that gorgeous belly.
> MUCH easier with only your own weight to throw around... :)
>
>

Yeah, I thought about that. I weigh less now than I did when I broke my
ankle, but I'm unbelievable clumsy. Probably should have waited to get pregnant
until I had the surgery, but that seemed like an eternity at age 39.

My kids are 5 and 4 (already!) but my husband would take some time off work.
There are lots of pre-teens around here who would be happy to come over after
school and help out, at least with my older kids. I'll have to see what the
program for recovery is after the surgery. I'm just assuming there will be
some kind of cast while the bone grows back through the holes.

i did have a c-section with my second (placenta preevia made that necessary)
and did nurse right away. She was six weeks early and latched on right away
like a champ!

You guys are great, thanks for all your help!

Elizabeth


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

thinkspringblooms

--- In [email protected], joylyn <joylyn@e...>
wrote:
> Just something to remember...
>
> Many mothers undergo surgery during pregnancy and immediately
after, have general or spinal or whatever, have major pain killers
after birth, and... breastfeed through it all. It's called a c-
section.
If a drug is approved during use of a c-section and immediately
after, for baby and mom, then it should be fine when baby is a few
weeks old, or during pregnancy and especially when baby is months
old.
> I've had multiple surgeries during lacataion, all under general,
using pain killers, antibiotics, etc. as needed. Almost ALL drugs
are safe for breastfeeding, it's just a matter of finding the right
one. There is almost NEVER a need to pump and dump.
>
> Joylyn
I'm sure the medical community approves a certain "level of safety"
for the use of these drugs, and the studies and anecdotal evidence
would appear to back them up I'm sure. But I'm not so sure MY level
of safety and theirs would match up that well! :)
At the time I had no research telling me whether any of it was
harmful or not, just the md's word --- tho my instinct (and my
lifestyle at the time) was to keep "unnatural" substances out of my
babies' bodies, as well as my own. Also at the time my babes were
preemies, so might as well have still been in utero. Quick decisions
had to be made in my situation, so I decide to "err" on the side of
protection. It was a little inconvenient but not anywhere near
unbearable, especially since I had to pump anyway if I wanted my
babes to have breastmilk cuz my breasts were so swollen from hitting
the steering wheel they couldn't latch on.
I do find it a little inconsistent to spend huge amounts of energy on
the problems of a medically-"approved" substance like formula, then
turn around and defend the "approval" by the same community of drugs
which will pass to your babe whether in utero or through lactation.
Seems to me the *necessity* of using these various substances has to
be measured and valued very carefully in any given situation.

namaste,
cris




I think it's worth the inconvenience of
> > sitting around alot with your babe afterwards to protect that tiny
> > being from an unnecessary trauma. I guess you can tell I feel
pretty
> > strongly about this... :~)
> >
> > namaste,
> > cris

joylyn

thinkspringblooms wrote:

> I do find it a little inconsistent to spend huge amounts of energy on
> the problems of a medically-"approved" substance like formula, then
> turn around and defend the "approval" by the same community of drugs
> which will pass to your babe whether in utero or through lactation.

Uh, not all do. And many are perfectly safe. Some you must balance the
needs of the mother to have the drug vs the risks to the baby, and to
the mother.

There is a great book out there that has looked at most of the drugs
available, look
here...http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0963621963/qid=1064193604/sr=8-3/ref=sr_8_3/103-5828759-5992621?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Medications & Mothers' Milk: A Manual of Lactational Pharmacology
by Thomas W., Ph.D. Hale
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author=Hale%2C%20Thomas%20W.%2C%20Ph.D./103-5828759-5992621>


Any good doctor will have a reference book that references drugs as
categories. Category A drugs are perfectly safe. There are few of
these because few drug companies want to claim that even a drug like
advil is perfectly safe for babies and pregnant moms and lactating moms.
Category B moms are considered fine, and most are prescribed to infants
without a second thought. Personally if a drug is prescribed to an
infant then it's OK for a lactating mother or pregnant mother. Catagory
C drugs are more dangerous and if possible it is better to find an
alternative in the B category. Category D drugs are to be avoided.
Generally if a drug has been approved for pregnancy it is safe during
lactation. Of course, not all docs know all this information so Hales
is a good book to have around, and most good LLL Leaders have a copy or
know someone who does, so they can look up and see what's the REAL scoop
with a drug, so the mother can make an INFORMED choice. Another good
book that has common drugs and their effect upon breastfeeding is the
Breastfeeding Answer Book which most LLL Leaders will have.

I have spoken to many moms who pumped and dumped while they took a drug
that was perfectly safe for their child to have while breastfeeding.
The baby had bottles of artificial milk, which was and is, in the long
term, far worse than a little breastmilk with a small amount of whatever
drug in it. This has been done for every drug under the sun, including
antibiotics, antidepressants, and other drugs that have been proven to
be perfectly fine during lactation. Sometimes the result of giving
bottles is that the baby refuses to go back to the breast so mom
eventually stops pumping, and baby is now a formula consumer! Hey hey,
more money for the formula company!

Furthermore not all drugs pass through to the milk. Some drugs pass
through in such minimal amounts as to be barely detectable. At any
rate, depending upon a baby's age and breastfeeding patterns, moms can
often breastfeed around the dosage time to prevent drugs from getting to
baby.

>
> Seems to me the *necessity* of using these various substances has to
> be measured and valued very carefully in any given situation.

Oh most definitely, but I have heard of way too many women NOT
breastfeed (my doctor said I couldn't use my asthma inhaler if I was
breastfeeding, my doctor said my high blood pressure meds weren't
compatible with breastfeeding or whatever, when most of the time what
the doctor said is simply not true and there is almost always a way to
get the meds needed and still breastfeed) because of a fear of using a
particular drug.

Personally I'd rather a child have a week of something rather not good
for it and then go on to have years of further breastfeeding then mom to
wean and the baby to get artificial baby milk. Also as someone who
pumped, breastmilk is liquid gold and the idea of dumping something
unnecessarily is horrid.

Joylyn

>
>
> namaste,
> cris
>
>
>
>
> I think it's worth the inconvenience of
> > > sitting around alot with your babe afterwards to protect that tiny
> > > being from an unnecessary trauma. I guess you can tell I feel
> pretty
> > > strongly about this... :~)
> > >
> > > namaste,
> > > cris
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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