relationships
susan
hi,
i thought this was an interesting and perhaps timely quote, at least for me it was:
'truth is that all theories, no matter how warm, fuzzy, and intuitively obvious, interfere with relationship. to have no theories is the challenge, to say yes to the moment, to go where no one has gone before, space...the space between humans...the finial and only frontier. be brave.'
- the handwringers's column in the california homeschooler
by barbara alward & diane kallas
(i got it from this winter's issue of paths of learning
mag)
this is just the last paragraph. the whole column is very humorous and was written as a satirical response to alfie kohn's theories (who i enjoy) it was published right after a long interview w alfie:) i love this mag. and this column makes me want to subscribe to the california homeschooler as well.
-susan,
austin,tx
'unity through diversity'
Joseph Fuerst
Helen, Thanks for this!
I guess it's the holidays, but the fact that my family (of origin) is
very disconnected is on my mind lots lately. Dh's family has been better
overall, but as we all get caught in our family lives, it's
harder...parenting styles differ - one of his sibs actually uses Ezzo
<cringe>. His sibs live across the country and it's been difficult to get
together.
Anyhow, I'm like Sarah in that I've observed and 'wanted' to have
closeness with my children as they grow into adults. I know that I usually
enjoy our time now and find that living this way supports closeness in
relationships; whereas, I think 'schooling' them could be divisive.
I appreciate hearing from you and Tia on this since your perspective is
different. Sometimes when one is in the midst of a situation....it's hrad
to get a good look ifyaknowwhatImean.
Susan
I always expected a close relationship with my kids when they were
grown, and so far we have just that, even though three of them live
quite a ways away (two in Alaska, one 60+ miles away), and the other
two are gone more than they're home most of the time.
What do I mean by close? Well... I was visiting the kids in Alaska
just before Christmas and we were out doing some Christmas shopping;
I was picking out one of those noisy-obnoxious kinds of toys grandmas
love to give grandkids when my oldest son grabbed me from behind,
lifted me right up off my feet with a big bearhug, and said "Mom, I
love you to pieces but if you get that for my daughter I'm going to
mail both it and her down to YOU!" <BWG>
So I snuck back the next day, bought the noisemaker, wrapped it up
and tucked it under the tree for HIM to open on Christmas - after I'd
left! <ggg>
Right now I'm waiting for Jim, the son who lives 60 miles away, to
show up with his family. I was over at their place last night (yeah,
we all travel A LOT), and thought about just spending the night
there, but it was a beautiful clear moonlit night and the drive
between here and there is through some of the most beautiful
mountains anywhere, over the highest pass in the state... (and
besides, there's nothing like one's *own* bed and snugglies <g>)
I'd been home about ten minutes when the phone rang. It was Jim, just
checking to make sure I'd made it home safely. Mark said it was his
third call, and on his call before that he'd said he was giving me
another half hour before he started out looking for me. (Yes, I carry
a cellphone, but it doesn't work out in those mountains.)
I credit my parents with teaching me how to parent. What goes around
comes around.
Helen
I guess it's the holidays, but the fact that my family (of origin) is
very disconnected is on my mind lots lately. Dh's family has been better
overall, but as we all get caught in our family lives, it's
harder...parenting styles differ - one of his sibs actually uses Ezzo
<cringe>. His sibs live across the country and it's been difficult to get
together.
Anyhow, I'm like Sarah in that I've observed and 'wanted' to have
closeness with my children as they grow into adults. I know that I usually
enjoy our time now and find that living this way supports closeness in
relationships; whereas, I think 'schooling' them could be divisive.
I appreciate hearing from you and Tia on this since your perspective is
different. Sometimes when one is in the midst of a situation....it's hrad
to get a good look ifyaknowwhatImean.
Susan
I always expected a close relationship with my kids when they were
grown, and so far we have just that, even though three of them live
quite a ways away (two in Alaska, one 60+ miles away), and the other
two are gone more than they're home most of the time.
What do I mean by close? Well... I was visiting the kids in Alaska
just before Christmas and we were out doing some Christmas shopping;
I was picking out one of those noisy-obnoxious kinds of toys grandmas
love to give grandkids when my oldest son grabbed me from behind,
lifted me right up off my feet with a big bearhug, and said "Mom, I
love you to pieces but if you get that for my daughter I'm going to
mail both it and her down to YOU!" <BWG>
So I snuck back the next day, bought the noisemaker, wrapped it up
and tucked it under the tree for HIM to open on Christmas - after I'd
left! <ggg>
Right now I'm waiting for Jim, the son who lives 60 miles away, to
show up with his family. I was over at their place last night (yeah,
we all travel A LOT), and thought about just spending the night
there, but it was a beautiful clear moonlit night and the drive
between here and there is through some of the most beautiful
mountains anywhere, over the highest pass in the state... (and
besides, there's nothing like one's *own* bed and snugglies <g>)
I'd been home about ten minutes when the phone rang. It was Jim, just
checking to make sure I'd made it home safely. Mark said it was his
third call, and on his call before that he'd said he was giving me
another half hour before he started out looking for me. (Yes, I carry
a cellphone, but it doesn't work out in those mountains.)
I credit my parents with teaching me how to parent. What goes around
comes around.
Helen
Joylyn
Joseph Fuerst wrote:
And I think this is true. We learn so much
about parenting, even things we wish we
didn't know, from our parents and other
relatives.
I think the best parents look closely at how
they were parented, and choose which aspects
of their own parenting they wish to keep, and
what things they will never do. My parents
were wonderful parents, but I also know there
are mistakes they made and I will work to not
make those same mistakes. I want to make all
new ones.
however, so many people simple parent as they
were parented, without thought. It was good
enough to them to be spanked, go to school,
eat fried foods, not be in seat belts,
whatever... I turned out OK and by golly so
will my kids. I hate that mentality.
Joylyn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I credit my parents with teaching me howYour family sounds wonderful.
> to parent. What goes around
> comes around.
And I think this is true. We learn so much
about parenting, even things we wish we
didn't know, from our parents and other
relatives.
I think the best parents look closely at how
they were parented, and choose which aspects
of their own parenting they wish to keep, and
what things they will never do. My parents
were wonderful parents, but I also know there
are mistakes they made and I will work to not
make those same mistakes. I want to make all
new ones.
however, so many people simple parent as they
were parented, without thought. It was good
enough to them to be spanked, go to school,
eat fried foods, not be in seat belts,
whatever... I turned out OK and by golly so
will my kids. I hate that mentality.
Joylyn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Helen Hegener
At 2:26 PM -0800 12/28/01, Joylyn wrote:
tend to see the positive side of things, but the warts are still
there. We're not the Nelsons or the Cleavers, by any means. <g>
my Dad - all do things which drive me right up the wall (Dad's
3-pack-a-day chain-smoking is probably the worst), but I try to be
philosophical and let them be who they are. Yeah, I tell Dad his
smoking's gonna kill him someday, and that I find it hard to be in
the same room with him when he really gets going, and - the one plea
that always gets to him - it's not good for the little
great-granddaughters (but that only works when they're around)... But
I know he smokes purely out of a habit picked up when he was working
30-40 hours at a stretch debugging computer programs - smoking became
some kind of a physical or mental crutch for him then, and it's
somehow serving the same purpose now as he battles being paralyzed
and wheelchair-bound. He's so proud of the fact that he can pull out
and light his own cigarettes - he can do so damn little else...
And just FWIW: we've tried every distraction in the book to get him
to quit. First off, he has to want to quit, and he doesn't.
But the point was, my family's not perfect. Many of you probably have
"more perfect" families. I just choose to focus on the good and let
the rest go, as my parents taught me to do.
Helen
>Your family sounds wonderful.Well... most of the time, they are. But there *are* other times... I
tend to see the positive side of things, but the warts are still
there. We're not the Nelsons or the Cleavers, by any means. <g>
>I think the best parents look closely at howSame here, and that's exactly what I've done. My mother, my sisters,
>they were parented, and choose which aspects
>of their own parenting they wish to keep, and
>what things they will never do. My parents
>were wonderful parents, but I also know there
>are mistakes they made and I will work to not
>make those same mistakes. I want to make all
>new ones.
my Dad - all do things which drive me right up the wall (Dad's
3-pack-a-day chain-smoking is probably the worst), but I try to be
philosophical and let them be who they are. Yeah, I tell Dad his
smoking's gonna kill him someday, and that I find it hard to be in
the same room with him when he really gets going, and - the one plea
that always gets to him - it's not good for the little
great-granddaughters (but that only works when they're around)... But
I know he smokes purely out of a habit picked up when he was working
30-40 hours at a stretch debugging computer programs - smoking became
some kind of a physical or mental crutch for him then, and it's
somehow serving the same purpose now as he battles being paralyzed
and wheelchair-bound. He's so proud of the fact that he can pull out
and light his own cigarettes - he can do so damn little else...
And just FWIW: we've tried every distraction in the book to get him
to quit. First off, he has to want to quit, and he doesn't.
But the point was, my family's not perfect. Many of you probably have
"more perfect" families. I just choose to focus on the good and let
the rest go, as my parents taught me to do.
Helen
Tia Leschke
>My mother smoked almost all her life. I knew not to hassle her about it,
>And just FWIW: we've tried every distraction in the book to get him
>to quit. First off, he has to want to quit, and he doesn't.
having been a smoker myself. About the only thing I said to her in the
last few years was to mention what a drag it would be to have to be hooked
up to oxygen all the time. (She has a touch of emphysema.) Well she just
happened to mention on the phone early this summer that she hadn't smoked
for a week. I'm sure she could hear my jaw dropping. <g> She said it had
nothing to do with health worries. She just woke up one morning thinking
she didn't want to do that anymore. She talks now about how nice it is to
have more money to spend on other things. She will be 86 in February and
she still isn't smoking.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
Helen Hegener
At 10:31 PM -0800 12/28/01, Tia Leschke wrote:
Dad quit smoking after his stroke in September, and didn't even want
to smoke for several weeks afterwards, but then one day he just up
and started in again.
up for her the other evening - four packs of cigarettes came to over
$17.00! I was flabbergasted - and then my sister told me the price is
going up by sixty cents a pack next week!
Helen
> She just woke up one morning thinkingHow wonderful, Tia! That's the kind of decision that usually stays decided! <g>
>she didn't want to do that anymore.
Dad quit smoking after his stroke in September, and didn't even want
to smoke for several weeks afterwards, but then one day he just up
and started in again.
> She talks now about how nice it is toTell me about it! Mom had cigs on a shopping list of things I picked
>have more money to spend on other things.
up for her the other evening - four packs of cigarettes came to over
$17.00! I was flabbergasted - and then my sister told me the price is
going up by sixty cents a pack next week!
> She will be 86 in February andWell, bless her heart!
>she still isn't smoking.
Helen
Kolleen
>Helen writes:FWIW, I have found that quitting smoking was the hardest thing I had to
>Dad quit smoking after his stroke in September, and didn't even want
>to smoke for several weeks afterwards, but then one day he just up
>and started in again.
do in my life. It was harder than childbirth!
Maybe keeping this thought in mind when dealing with anyone that smoked
for any length of time will help the whole perspective.
I wasn't even a heavy smoker.. just something I picked up in while
waitressing and it stayed with me for 10 or so years.
But alas, there are some powerful addictive chemicals in commercial
cigarettes...
regards,
kolleen
Tia Leschke
>Well, she did that once before, a number of years ago. Then she ran for
> > She just woke up one morning thinking
> >she didn't want to do that anymore.
>
>How wonderful, Tia! That's the kind of decision that usually stays
>decided! <g>
the local school board and started up again on election night. <g> At the
time, she felt that she had gained none of the benefits of non-smoking and
all of the negatives. She was coughing more and had gained a lot of
weight, maybe a few other things. But I think it *will* stay decided this
time. At this point she can use the weight anyway, having shrivelled away
to almost nothing. And quite a few people have noticed, and told her, that
her thinking is a lot clearer since she stopped. She worries a lot about
the fact that her memory is going. (I'm making a point of *not* telling
her that the one local nursing home won't accept smokers. At this point
she's adamant that she doesn't ever want to live there, but she does want
to stay in her small town. I want to see that option remain open if I can,
even though the *plan* is for her to die in her sleep one night in her own
apartment. <g>)
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
Mimi Moorehead
>I'm a smoker, on and off. I've never felt I was addicted because I have
> Tell me about it! Mom had cigs on a shopping list of things I picked
> up for her the other evening - four packs of cigarettes came to over
> $17.00! I was flabbergasted - and then my sister told me the price is
> going up by sixty cents a pack next week!
easily stopped many times for months or years at a time without much of
a problem. It was never a big deal. Whenever I felt I was becoming
dependent on it, I would immediately stop.
I thoroughly enjoy smoking. What I do to cut down the cost is to roll
my own cigarettes. You can buy some really fine loose Danish, Dutch or
Turkish tobacco and roll your own for a fraction of the cost of a
regular pack of cigarettes and they are far better. It just looks like
I'm smoking a joint, that's all.
I'm not encouraging anyone to smoke. I'm just sharing information about
how I save some money. I am planning to stop again with the new year.
It's too bad it's not good for you. But, then, so is eating too much
ice cream which I love to do also.
Mimi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]