[UnschoolingDiscussion]What Jack said; was: Introducing The Rall family
[email protected]
I am quite a good cook. I bake wonderful smelling, heavenly tasting breads,
cakes, and pies. I fix delicious, mouthwatering meals. No bragging, its the one
good *suzie homemaker* thing I do. Mostly my house is a cozy, cluttered,
needs to be dusted, maybe I should vacuum, boy it sure smells good in here, home.
Darin and the kids like to look through my cookbooks and ask; "Could you make
this? Would you make that?" and I do. (Darin has been known to ask for recipes
at restaurants, family reunions, homeschool group potlucks.) Not every day
mind you. Some days I loathe the sight of the kitchen. Some days it is nicer,
easier, just because no other reason, to go out to the local national chain
insert the name here restaurant.
One day, despite my skills, despite the pride I take in placing nutritious,
sometimes well balanced, lovely tasting food in front of my family, Jack came
to me with a sad look on his face. He stammered, and hemmed and hawed. He said,
Mommy, ummm you know? Then stopped. Darin smiled, I smiled. We didn't know
what was going to come out of our little guy's mouth, but we knew it was
important by the look on his face. I told him to tell me, Darin asked if he was hurt.
So Jack took a deep breath, looked right at me and said that the meal I fixed
the night before (which is a family favorite and I fix often) makes him sick,
and he did not want to eat it any more. I asked how it made him sick, and he
said it makes him have to go to the bathroom a lot and makes his stomach ache.
By this time he was crying hard. He felt bad, he didn't want to hurt my
feelings, and he really hadn't wanted to tell me this. Darin looked at me and said;
"You know, it took a lot out of him to come tell you this." I hugged Jack and
told him he didn't have to eat that meal ever again if he didn't want to,
that he could pick something else for me to fix him.
When I was a kid, I could have never, ever told my Mom what Jack told me. I
ate what she fixed and that was the end of it. I wanted guitar lessons when I
was about seven, by the third or fourth lesson, I hated the teacher and wanted
to quit. My parents let me, but never again did I ask for something without
hearing about how I had quit the guitar, how I would never amount to anything if
I quit everything, how much money was going to be spent and on and on.
I don't know how this fits with what everyone is talking about, but I think
somehow it does. Sometimes, we do have to do things we don't want to, that is
life. Like visiting Grandma, who has a smelly house and five too many cats, and
knits ugly hats and even uglier afghans. But, most of the time we get to
choose what we do and we choose to do things that make us happy. There is no
reason in the world we can't and shouldn't extend that same right to our children.
They are so small and dependent on us, (even when they are 16, 17, and 18 and
look like full grown adults, they are still forming and growing and we need to
remember this) they need to practice making choices, forming opinions, and
deciding what they like in the safety and comfort of home with their parents. If
we make it difficult for them, putting up roadblocks of our own opinions,
views, morals, tastes, then they begin to balk. (this isn't to say we can't and
shouldn't show and model our values and morals for them, we just can't expect
them to accept them without testing the validity of said values and morals for
themselves.) They resist and rebel. They learn that parents and other adults
don't care. So sometimes we have to look at money spent, time gone by, projects
gathering dust in a corner as evidence that our children are building good
lives for themselves, that they are discovering who they are and how they fit in
this world, and THAT is good and worth the money, time, and effort.
~Nancy
People always call it luck when you've acted more sensibly than they have.
Anne Tyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cakes, and pies. I fix delicious, mouthwatering meals. No bragging, its the one
good *suzie homemaker* thing I do. Mostly my house is a cozy, cluttered,
needs to be dusted, maybe I should vacuum, boy it sure smells good in here, home.
Darin and the kids like to look through my cookbooks and ask; "Could you make
this? Would you make that?" and I do. (Darin has been known to ask for recipes
at restaurants, family reunions, homeschool group potlucks.) Not every day
mind you. Some days I loathe the sight of the kitchen. Some days it is nicer,
easier, just because no other reason, to go out to the local national chain
insert the name here restaurant.
One day, despite my skills, despite the pride I take in placing nutritious,
sometimes well balanced, lovely tasting food in front of my family, Jack came
to me with a sad look on his face. He stammered, and hemmed and hawed. He said,
Mommy, ummm you know? Then stopped. Darin smiled, I smiled. We didn't know
what was going to come out of our little guy's mouth, but we knew it was
important by the look on his face. I told him to tell me, Darin asked if he was hurt.
So Jack took a deep breath, looked right at me and said that the meal I fixed
the night before (which is a family favorite and I fix often) makes him sick,
and he did not want to eat it any more. I asked how it made him sick, and he
said it makes him have to go to the bathroom a lot and makes his stomach ache.
By this time he was crying hard. He felt bad, he didn't want to hurt my
feelings, and he really hadn't wanted to tell me this. Darin looked at me and said;
"You know, it took a lot out of him to come tell you this." I hugged Jack and
told him he didn't have to eat that meal ever again if he didn't want to,
that he could pick something else for me to fix him.
When I was a kid, I could have never, ever told my Mom what Jack told me. I
ate what she fixed and that was the end of it. I wanted guitar lessons when I
was about seven, by the third or fourth lesson, I hated the teacher and wanted
to quit. My parents let me, but never again did I ask for something without
hearing about how I had quit the guitar, how I would never amount to anything if
I quit everything, how much money was going to be spent and on and on.
I don't know how this fits with what everyone is talking about, but I think
somehow it does. Sometimes, we do have to do things we don't want to, that is
life. Like visiting Grandma, who has a smelly house and five too many cats, and
knits ugly hats and even uglier afghans. But, most of the time we get to
choose what we do and we choose to do things that make us happy. There is no
reason in the world we can't and shouldn't extend that same right to our children.
They are so small and dependent on us, (even when they are 16, 17, and 18 and
look like full grown adults, they are still forming and growing and we need to
remember this) they need to practice making choices, forming opinions, and
deciding what they like in the safety and comfort of home with their parents. If
we make it difficult for them, putting up roadblocks of our own opinions,
views, morals, tastes, then they begin to balk. (this isn't to say we can't and
shouldn't show and model our values and morals for them, we just can't expect
them to accept them without testing the validity of said values and morals for
themselves.) They resist and rebel. They learn that parents and other adults
don't care. So sometimes we have to look at money spent, time gone by, projects
gathering dust in a corner as evidence that our children are building good
lives for themselves, that they are discovering who they are and how they fit in
this world, and THAT is good and worth the money, time, and effort.
~Nancy
People always call it luck when you've acted more sensibly than they have.
Anne Tyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9-1-2003 2:07:49 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
Dnowens@... writes:
So Jack took a deep breath, looked right at me and said that the meal I fixed
the night before (which is a family favorite and I fix often) makes him sick,
and he did not want to eat it any more. I asked how it made him sick, and he
said it makes him have to go to the bathroom a lot and makes his stomach ache.
By this time he was crying hard. He felt bad, he didn't want to hurt my
feelings, and he really hadn't wanted to tell me this. Darin looked at me and said;
"You know, it took a lot out of him to come tell you this." I hugged Jack and
told him he didn't have to eat that meal ever again if he didn't want to,
that he could pick something else for me to fix him.
Thanks Nancy! I'm crying too, but tears of joy ~ what a lucky boy you have
and what an inspiration you are :')
diana,
The wackiest widow westriver...
"You can follow your book and your map of wars, but I'll go and follow my
kids." -- Woody Guthrie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dnowens@... writes:
So Jack took a deep breath, looked right at me and said that the meal I fixed
the night before (which is a family favorite and I fix often) makes him sick,
and he did not want to eat it any more. I asked how it made him sick, and he
said it makes him have to go to the bathroom a lot and makes his stomach ache.
By this time he was crying hard. He felt bad, he didn't want to hurt my
feelings, and he really hadn't wanted to tell me this. Darin looked at me and said;
"You know, it took a lot out of him to come tell you this." I hugged Jack and
told him he didn't have to eat that meal ever again if he didn't want to,
that he could pick something else for me to fix him.
Thanks Nancy! I'm crying too, but tears of joy ~ what a lucky boy you have
and what an inspiration you are :')
diana,
The wackiest widow westriver...
"You can follow your book and your map of wars, but I'll go and follow my
kids." -- Woody Guthrie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshiantafti
>>looked right at me and said that the meal I fixedthe night before (which is a family favorite and I fix often) makes him sick, <<
Well - gosh, poor kid - good he told you! So -- what WAS in the meal? Is it an allergy or ???
Curiosity, y'know!
-pam
unschoolingdiscussion
This new list description is available on the yahoogroups homepage
for this group and will be sent to each new list subscriber:
*******
Although unschooling is often described as a homeschooling style, it
is, in fact, much more than just another homeschool teaching method.
Unschooling is both a philosophy of natural learning and the
lifestyle that results from living according to the principles of
that philosophy.
The most basic principle of unschooling is that children are born
with an intrinsic urge to explore -- for a moment or a lifetime --
what intrigues them, as they seek to join the adult world in a
personally satisfying way. Because of that urge, an unschooling child
is free to choose the what, when, where and how of his/her own
learning from mud puddles to video games and SpongeBob Squarepants to
Shakespeare! And an unschooling parent sees his/her role, not as a
teacher, but as a facilitator and companion in a child's exploration
of the world.
Unschooling is a mindful lifestyle which encompasses, at its core, an
atmosphere of trust, freedom, joy and deep respect for who the child
is. This cannot be lived on a part-time basis. Unschooling sometimes
seems so intuitive that people feel they've been doing it all along,
not realizing it has a name. Unschooling sometimes seems so
counterintuitive that people struggle to understand it, and it can
take years to fully accept its worth.
The purpose of this list is to move out of our own comfort zones as
we critically examine our beliefs, ideas, and viewpoints about
learning, and seek a deeper understanding of unschooling and more
respectful relationships with our children.
Please read for at least a week or two, before posting, to get a feel
for the list. New members are on moderation, to avoid spam and other
disruptions. "List Posting Policies" can be found in the files area
of this list or, along with other list information, at:
<http://www.sandradodd.com/lists/info>.
If you have questions, contact:
[email protected].
Joyce Fetteroll, Pam Sorooshian, and Sandra Dodd
for this group and will be sent to each new list subscriber:
*******
Although unschooling is often described as a homeschooling style, it
is, in fact, much more than just another homeschool teaching method.
Unschooling is both a philosophy of natural learning and the
lifestyle that results from living according to the principles of
that philosophy.
The most basic principle of unschooling is that children are born
with an intrinsic urge to explore -- for a moment or a lifetime --
what intrigues them, as they seek to join the adult world in a
personally satisfying way. Because of that urge, an unschooling child
is free to choose the what, when, where and how of his/her own
learning from mud puddles to video games and SpongeBob Squarepants to
Shakespeare! And an unschooling parent sees his/her role, not as a
teacher, but as a facilitator and companion in a child's exploration
of the world.
Unschooling is a mindful lifestyle which encompasses, at its core, an
atmosphere of trust, freedom, joy and deep respect for who the child
is. This cannot be lived on a part-time basis. Unschooling sometimes
seems so intuitive that people feel they've been doing it all along,
not realizing it has a name. Unschooling sometimes seems so
counterintuitive that people struggle to understand it, and it can
take years to fully accept its worth.
The purpose of this list is to move out of our own comfort zones as
we critically examine our beliefs, ideas, and viewpoints about
learning, and seek a deeper understanding of unschooling and more
respectful relationships with our children.
Please read for at least a week or two, before posting, to get a feel
for the list. New members are on moderation, to avoid spam and other
disruptions. "List Posting Policies" can be found in the files area
of this list or, along with other list information, at:
<http://www.sandradodd.com/lists/info>.
If you have questions, contact:
[email protected].
Joyce Fetteroll, Pam Sorooshian, and Sandra Dodd
unschoolingdiscussion
UnschoolingDiscussion List Posting Policies
It is our sincere wish to provide a forum for those seeking to deepen
their understanding of the unschooling philosophy. The primary
purpose of this list is to encourage the critical examination of
ideas, beliefs and viewpoints.
Questioning of deeply-held ideas and beliefs can be very
uncomfortable and sometimes responses to that process can stand in
the way of people getting what they need out of the list.
Therefore, we offer the following guidelines to help our members get
the most from the list:
1. Read for at least a couple of weeks before posting yourself. Spend
that time getting a "feel" for the list and its members. This will
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2 Expect your beliefs to be challenged. Welcome this as an
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3. When differences of opinion arise, stick to discussing ideas, not
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4. If you have a belief or practice that you don't want held up to
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5. Before you hit "send," consider whether your post will contribute
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6. Avoid using loaded terminology. For instance, "If you have no TV
restrictions why don't your kids just watch TV all day?" will get you
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7. It is not useful to inform the list that you believe someone else
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just bogs down the list. It is also a waste of everyone's time when
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statements such as: "Jane, here is my suggestion of how you could
write more nicely so people wouldn't think you are being rude."
8. Our brains automatically supply a "tone" to posts as we read. It
can be helpful to imagine your best friend speaking the words you are
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is unacceptable to attack the "tone" of the list or to make
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is the rudest I've seen," would be unacceptable. Instead, attempt to
create a positive, helpful tone with your own posts by setting the
example you hope others will follow.
9. Envision every post and response as a dish at a potluck dinner.
You won't love every dish at a potluck any more than you will love
every poster's style of help. But a dish/post may be exactly what
someone else needs. If ou don't like a certain list member's
offerings, skip them and leave them for others.
10. Read and write as clearly as you can. In casual conversation we
often don't realize how much we rely on others to fill in the gist of
our conversation based on what they expect us to say. But here,
without body language or inflection, all we have to go on are your
words and they should say what you mean. If you say, for example,
you "never" do something, it should not mean "almost never."
Our goal is to make the list as useful as possible for those seeking
to deepen their understanding of the unschooling philosophy. To do
that, all new list members are initially moderated to prevent
spamming and catch posts that could disrupt the list. People will
also be moderated if they disrupt the usefulness of the list.
Potentially disruptive posts will be returned for revision.
If you have questions, please write to:
[email protected]
Joyce Fetteroll, Pam Sorooshian, and Sandra Dodd
It is our sincere wish to provide a forum for those seeking to deepen
their understanding of the unschooling philosophy. The primary
purpose of this list is to encourage the critical examination of
ideas, beliefs and viewpoints.
Questioning of deeply-held ideas and beliefs can be very
uncomfortable and sometimes responses to that process can stand in
the way of people getting what they need out of the list.
Therefore, we offer the following guidelines to help our members get
the most from the list:
1. Read for at least a couple of weeks before posting yourself. Spend
that time getting a "feel" for the list and its members. This will
help you decide if this list is worth your time or whether some other
list might be more useful to you in meeting your needs.
2 Expect your beliefs to be challenged. Welcome this as an
opportunity to critically examine your own ideas.
3. When differences of opinion arise, stick to discussing ideas, not
the person with whom you are disagreeing.
4. If you have a belief or practice that you don't want held up to
public examination, don't post it to the list.
5. Before you hit "send," consider whether your post will contribute
positively to the unschooling discussion.
6. Avoid using loaded terminology. For instance, "If you have no TV
restrictions why don't your kids just watch TV all day?" will get you
more useful responses than, "I don't see how your kids learn anything
if all they ever do is sit around like zombies watching unlimited TV."
7. It is not useful to inform the list that you believe someone else
is being rude or discourteous; please trust the rest of the list to
recognize rudeness for themselves. Saying, "Jane was rude to me,"
just bogs down the list. It is also a waste of everyone's time when
participants attempt to correct or improve other list members'
manners. It never works and always disrupts the list. Avoid
statements such as: "Jane, here is my suggestion of how you could
write more nicely so people wouldn't think you are being rude."
8. Our brains automatically supply a "tone" to posts as we read. It
can be helpful to imagine your best friend speaking the words you are
reading, in the gentlest, most well-meaning tone you can imagine. It
is unacceptable to attack the "tone" of the list or to make
generalizations about it. "I've been on many other lists and this one
is the rudest I've seen," would be unacceptable. Instead, attempt to
create a positive, helpful tone with your own posts by setting the
example you hope others will follow.
9. Envision every post and response as a dish at a potluck dinner.
You won't love every dish at a potluck any more than you will love
every poster's style of help. But a dish/post may be exactly what
someone else needs. If ou don't like a certain list member's
offerings, skip them and leave them for others.
10. Read and write as clearly as you can. In casual conversation we
often don't realize how much we rely on others to fill in the gist of
our conversation based on what they expect us to say. But here,
without body language or inflection, all we have to go on are your
words and they should say what you mean. If you say, for example,
you "never" do something, it should not mean "almost never."
Our goal is to make the list as useful as possible for those seeking
to deepen their understanding of the unschooling philosophy. To do
that, all new list members are initially moderated to prevent
spamming and catch posts that could disrupt the list. People will
also be moderated if they disrupt the usefulness of the list.
Potentially disruptive posts will be returned for revision.
If you have questions, please write to:
[email protected]
Joyce Fetteroll, Pam Sorooshian, and Sandra Dodd