DW

Hi!
I have something I would like to discuss. I have one child who wants to do textbooks. He says it is a way to get information in a fast and concise way. So, if he wants to learn about marine biology his first tendency is to read a textbook on marine biology. I have tried to get him to think outside the box more but he told me that textbooks and fantasy novels (his passion) are his learning preferences. He also told me that he just enjoys listening to lectures on tape and reading textbooks. He has no interest in public school though.

He wants to go into the military, which wouldn't be my choice for him since I am a babyboomer. But I told him that it was his life so he gets to choose. He spends a lot of time learning about math and science but he also studies other things he thinks he will need for the SAT. He is driven to get a high score.

I could care less about tests and all that. My daughter is more like me. I don't tell him what books to use or when to study. He just does it. Is this still unschooling??? I am embarrassed to admit he loves traditional stuff around unschooling friends.

Deana






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Julie Bogart

I see that no one has answered you so I'll give you my ideas,
fwtw. Some of the old-timers may have more to say.

--- In [email protected], DW
<schorsewoman@y...> wrote:
> Hi!
> I have something I would like to discuss. I have one child who
wants to do textbooks. He says it is a way to get information in a
fast and concise way.

There's truth in this assessment. Some kids have minds that
work that way. They want the facts and the overview. Is he
learning about marine bilogy out of interest or because he thinks
he should? Is he fulfilling requirements for the Air Force
Academy or some other military institution? If so, perhaps that's
why he wants to use textbooks. To fulfill the requirements with as
little hassle as possible.

>So, if he wants to learn about marine biology his first tendency
>is to read a textbook on marine biology. I have tried to get him to
think outside the box more but he told me that textbooks and
fantasy novels (his passion) are his learning preferences.

If these are his preferences, then I don't understand trying to get
him to think "outside the box." Usually the revolt against
textbooks is founded on the typical experience of text book
learning: boredom and poor retention. If your son prefers them,
he is probably gleaning lots of information that matters to him. I
wouldn't see that as a problem.

>He also told me that he just enjoys listening to lectures on tape
and reading textbooks. He has no interest in public school
though.

I love lectures as part of my education. In fact, I've spent the last
three years independently studying theology. I attended lectures
at the local university on topics that I enjoyed and now this fall
have decided to become a grad student. I loved my first
class--lectures, assigned reading. It was time for more directed
learning. I value all the modes of education for myself so why not
for my kids who express their preferences?

I have a son similar to yours and we are using a text book for
math (his choice) and a reader for history (again, his choice).
>
> He wants to go into the military, which wouldn't be my choice
for him since I am a babyboomer. But I told him that it was his
life so he gets to choose. He spends a lot of time learning about
math and science but he also studies other things he thinks he
will need for the SAT. He is driven to get a high score.

He sounds like a very self-motivated kid. And his desire to have
things orderly, to get high marks and to fulfull clear goals fits the
military perfectly.
>
> I could care less about tests and all that. My daughter is more
like me. I don't tell him what books to use or when to study. He
just does it. Is this still unschooling??? I am embarrassed to
admit he loves traditional stuff around unschooling friends.

Traditional materials don't make one automatically a
non-unschooler. Unschooling is more about learning to respond
to your particular child so that his learning adventure isn't
imposed by someone outside himself but comes from a
thorough self-knowledge. To take away textbooks would be to
violate the spirit of unschooling (making some form of education
taboo based on a preconceived idea of its value). Every part of
life holds educational value for someone.

As far as being embarassed: I think I'd want to underscore the
philosophy of unschooling rather than the typical practices that
are usually taken to mean unschooling. Your son is a
self-directed learner who knows how to get his educational
needs met without interference. Sounds like unschooling to me.

At least, that's my take on it.

Julie B

Robyn Coburn

<<Traditional materials don't make one automatically a
non-unschooler. Unschooling is more about learning to respond
to your particular child so that his learning adventure isn't
imposed by someone outside himself but comes from a
thorough self-knowledge. To take away textbooks would be to
violate the spirit of unschooling (making some form of education
taboo based on a preconceived idea of its value). Every part of
life holds educational value for someone.>>



I would agree that it's the philosophy in general, not the materials
being freely used by the learner. However, part of the reason textbooks
are often perceived as lesser quality educational materials, is how
often they are wrong, inaccurate, out-of-date, or laced with insidious
political biases. There was an article in Popular Science on this topic
about 6 months ago (???). It included a picture of a world map with the
equator going through Florida. Anyway I googled "Mistakes in Textbooks"
and got 79,300 hits. Here's one bio-sciences site:



http://bip.cnrs-mrs.fr/bip10/howler.htm



Buyer beware, I guess.

Robyn Coburn









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[email protected]

In a message dated 8/28/03 11:20:12 AM, julie@... writes:

<< I have a son similar to yours and we are using a text book for

math (his choice) and a reader for history (again, his choice). >>

My question is what do you mean by "using" a text book "for history"?

<< I don't tell him what books to use or when to study. He

just does it. Is this still unschooling??? >>

I think it's the word "use" which is causing the problems.

"Use" has a goal, usually. One uses something for a purpose, a goal.

One cannot learn all the history he needs from any one book. So a single
"text book" is more often "used" to serve as the basis for one course of study (a
class, with tests and reports and eventually an overall test).

<<I have one child who

wants to do textbooks. >>

To "do textbooks"?
DO them meaning answer all the questions at the end of each chapter?
DO them "in order," like not allow himself to skip a chapter?
(Even in school teachers will skip chapters or not finish a book.)

How about these phrases to make things less schoolish and confusing:

refer to text books
read text books
have text books
compare text books

"DOing" them and "USING" them seem a little locked-down to me.

Sandra

[email protected]

However, part of the reason textbooks
are often perceived as lesser quality educational materials, is how
often they are wrong, inaccurate, out-of-date, or laced with insidious
political biases.

Have any of you read 'The Language Police'? I can't remember the author's
name - Ravitch or something similar to that. (It's downstairs and I'm up and
it's humid so all the metal in my ankle is making me cranky.) It's a topic for
our next homeschooling group and I have to say it's scaring the crap out of
me. I'm not too far into it but the information about the bias committees for
tests and textbooks is really unbelievable. Can't read too much of it at a
time, it's disturbing.

My kids will never use a textbook unless they ask. And then I might have
them understand how they are brought together in the publishing world first!

Elizabeth


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Tia Leschke

> However, part of the reason textbooks
> are often perceived as lesser quality educational materials, is how
> often they are wrong, inaccurate, out-of-date, or laced with insidious
> political biases.
>
> Have any of you read 'The Language Police'? I can't remember the author's
> name - Ravitch or something similar to that. (It's downstairs and I'm up
and
> it's humid so all the metal in my ankle is making me cranky.) It's a
topic for
> our next homeschooling group and I have to say it's scaring the crap out
of
> me. I'm not too far into it but the information about the bias committees
for
> tests and textbooks is really unbelievable. Can't read too much of it at
a
> time, it's disturbing.

There's a chapter in Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman about his sitting on a
textbook committee. He carefully read all the texts and (I think - read it
a long time ago) made a list of several texts that had the fewest mistakes
and seemed the most sound scientifically. The rest of the committee just
chose the cheapest one.
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/30/2003 12:15:37 PM Central Standard Time,
leschke@... writes:


> The rest of the committee just
> chose the cheapest one.
>

Now it would be cheapest and least controversial. And probably most boring
and inaccurate!

Elizabeth


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