Re: [Unschooling-Discussion] Digest Number 3923
Pam Hartley
----------
connections we'll ever make are by the age of 5. Well before "curriculum"
enters most children's lives (though not all, sadly).
Pam
>From: [email protected]I'm not a big one for "studies" but I seem to recall that most of the neural
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-Discussion] Digest Number 3923
>Date: Fri, Aug 15, 2003, 1:31 PM
>
> Children's bodies are known to be more resilient than adult ones--
> this is why infant conjoined twins are so much easier to separate
> than adult ones, for instance. Similarly, children's minds are
> more "pliable" than adult ones so to speak--more receptive and
> adaptable to new mental challenges. It's no secret that the greatest
> amount of neural connection growth occurs in childhood. We continue
> to make new neural connections throughout our lives, but it is during
> the early years that the brain is most active in this respect.
connections we'll ever make are by the age of 5. Well before "curriculum"
enters most children's lives (though not all, sadly).
Pam
Deniz Martinez
--- In [email protected], "Pam Hartley"
<pamhartley@m...> wrote:
adolescence, but the vast majority of connections are made in those
crucial first few years.
There are also specific connections that have very definite windows
of opportunity. For example, an infant's brain creates their own
personal "sound library" only up until the age of about 18 months,
meaning the brain hard-wires itself for listening and pronunciation
skills based upon what languages it's being exposed to during that
window. Amazingly, the infant brain can not only learn the sounds of
multiple languages at this time, but can file them correctly in the
correct language "box" and thus become fluent in as many languages as
it is regularly exposed to during this time. I was raised bilingual
myself, but I know other people who were raised tri- and even quad-
lingual and can speak all languages with equal proficiency!!
Luckily, toddlers and older children are still highly receptive to
learning foreign languages, but after about age 12 or so the ability
to truly end up sounding like a "native" diminishes greatly. How
stupid then that most public schools don't start teaching foreign
language until the high school years, well after the prime time for
learning such a thing has passed!
Deniz
<pamhartley@m...> wrote:
> I'm not a big one for "studies" but I seem to recall that most ofSomething like that! Significant brain growth continues throughout
> the neural connections we'll ever make are by the age of 5. Well
> before "curriculum" enters most children's lives (though not all,
> sadly).
>
> Pam
adolescence, but the vast majority of connections are made in those
crucial first few years.
There are also specific connections that have very definite windows
of opportunity. For example, an infant's brain creates their own
personal "sound library" only up until the age of about 18 months,
meaning the brain hard-wires itself for listening and pronunciation
skills based upon what languages it's being exposed to during that
window. Amazingly, the infant brain can not only learn the sounds of
multiple languages at this time, but can file them correctly in the
correct language "box" and thus become fluent in as many languages as
it is regularly exposed to during this time. I was raised bilingual
myself, but I know other people who were raised tri- and even quad-
lingual and can speak all languages with equal proficiency!!
Luckily, toddlers and older children are still highly receptive to
learning foreign languages, but after about age 12 or so the ability
to truly end up sounding like a "native" diminishes greatly. How
stupid then that most public schools don't start teaching foreign
language until the high school years, well after the prime time for
learning such a thing has passed!
Deniz
Susan Fuerst
Have any of you ever read a book called The Myth of the First Three
Years? (I think that's the name , I'll try to find it. Several years
ago, I attended a seminar about brain research and early brain
development.
A few years later, I noticed the book and read it. Turns out that
there is much lying with research and much false assumption in that
area. The book describes some of the specific studies and results, and
the unfortunate extrapolations made about learning based on these
results.
I'm not denying brain growth and development.....but the knowledge of
the brain is still barely a scratch of the surface....like studying the
ocean or space....much more is unknown than known.
Susan
--- In [email protected], "Pam Hartley"
<pamhartley@m...> wrote:
adolescence, but the vast majority of connections are made in those
crucial first few years.
There are also specific connections that have very definite windows
of opportunity. For example, an infant's brain creates their own
personal "sound library" only up until the age of about 18 months,
meaning the brain hard-wires itself for listening and pronunciation
skills based upon what languages it's being exposed to during that
window. Amazingly, the infant brain can not only learn the sounds of
multiple languages at this time, but can file them correctly in the
correct language "box" and thus become fluent in as many languages as
it is regularly exposed to during this time. I was raised bilingual
myself, but I know other people who were raised tri- and even quad-
lingual and can speak all languages with equal proficiency!!
Luckily, toddlers and older children are still highly receptive to
learning foreign languages, but after about age 12 or so the ability
to truly end up sounding like a "native" diminishes greatly. How
stupid then that most public schools don't start teaching foreign
language until the high school years, well after the prime time for
learning such a thing has passed!
Deniz
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Years? (I think that's the name , I'll try to find it. Several years
ago, I attended a seminar about brain research and early brain
development.
A few years later, I noticed the book and read it. Turns out that
there is much lying with research and much false assumption in that
area. The book describes some of the specific studies and results, and
the unfortunate extrapolations made about learning based on these
results.
I'm not denying brain growth and development.....but the knowledge of
the brain is still barely a scratch of the surface....like studying the
ocean or space....much more is unknown than known.
Susan
--- In [email protected], "Pam Hartley"
<pamhartley@m...> wrote:
> I'm not a big one for "studies" but I seem to recall that most ofSomething like that! Significant brain growth continues throughout
> the neural connections we'll ever make are by the age of 5. Well
> before "curriculum" enters most children's lives (though not all,
> sadly).
>
> Pam
adolescence, but the vast majority of connections are made in those
crucial first few years.
There are also specific connections that have very definite windows
of opportunity. For example, an infant's brain creates their own
personal "sound library" only up until the age of about 18 months,
meaning the brain hard-wires itself for listening and pronunciation
skills based upon what languages it's being exposed to during that
window. Amazingly, the infant brain can not only learn the sounds of
multiple languages at this time, but can file them correctly in the
correct language "box" and thus become fluent in as many languages as
it is regularly exposed to during this time. I was raised bilingual
myself, but I know other people who were raised tri- and even quad-
lingual and can speak all languages with equal proficiency!!
Luckily, toddlers and older children are still highly receptive to
learning foreign languages, but after about age 12 or so the ability
to truly end up sounding like a "native" diminishes greatly. How
stupid then that most public schools don't start teaching foreign
language until the high school years, well after the prime time for
learning such a thing has passed!
Deniz
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list
owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address
an email to:
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[email protected]
denizmartinez@... writes:
person speaking spanish and one speaking english, or both speaking both, is, of
course, much better for the kids than school lanquage classes anyway ;-)
My husband grew up in a bilingual household, but doesn't like to speak
Spanish, he thinks he sounds "too white". He always listened to his Mom speak
Spanish and then answered in English. I think this is common. Because he spoke
only English in school.
I live in a mostly hispanic neighborhood, and it's funny how the second
gener's sound *so different* speaking Spanish than their parents, even tho, for the
first 4 or 5 years of their life, they only spoke Spanish! I think its the
school system that forces English on them as early as they can get at them.
That's also why our school system is worse than others, here in town. It's
demented, what they do to those kids. They make these kids uncomfortable with
their native language!!
I think the accent thing I've noticed is a type of cultural detachment, they
don't want to sound like immigrants, so they sound "American" instead, and
then they don't seem to like that very much either! It is kind of horrible to
hear them speak Spanish, it's very hesitant and mumbly and they often have a
strange look on their face. Kinda like when I try to speak Spanish, lol. But
with them, you can tell they're fluent, tho. It's very strange. I am often
spoken to in Spanish and answer in English, and no one is ever surprised, or if I
answer in spanish, that my accent is so bad, :-) because it's common here,
for someone my age, to answer that way.
Sorry, went off on a tangent, but it's just so darn interesting! Another
example of the evil school system, and how they screw with natural learning.
~Aimee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> after about age 12 or so the abilityThat's interesting, about sounding native. Immersion in the household, one
> to truly end up sounding like a "native" diminishes greatly. How
> stupid then that most public schools don't start teaching foreign
> language until the high school years, well after the prime time for
> learning such a thing has passed!
>
> Deniz
person speaking spanish and one speaking english, or both speaking both, is, of
course, much better for the kids than school lanquage classes anyway ;-)
My husband grew up in a bilingual household, but doesn't like to speak
Spanish, he thinks he sounds "too white". He always listened to his Mom speak
Spanish and then answered in English. I think this is common. Because he spoke
only English in school.
I live in a mostly hispanic neighborhood, and it's funny how the second
gener's sound *so different* speaking Spanish than their parents, even tho, for the
first 4 or 5 years of their life, they only spoke Spanish! I think its the
school system that forces English on them as early as they can get at them.
That's also why our school system is worse than others, here in town. It's
demented, what they do to those kids. They make these kids uncomfortable with
their native language!!
I think the accent thing I've noticed is a type of cultural detachment, they
don't want to sound like immigrants, so they sound "American" instead, and
then they don't seem to like that very much either! It is kind of horrible to
hear them speak Spanish, it's very hesitant and mumbly and they often have a
strange look on their face. Kinda like when I try to speak Spanish, lol. But
with them, you can tell they're fluent, tho. It's very strange. I am often
spoken to in Spanish and answer in English, and no one is ever surprised, or if I
answer in spanish, that my accent is so bad, :-) because it's common here,
for someone my age, to answer that way.
Sorry, went off on a tangent, but it's just so darn interesting! Another
example of the evil school system, and how they screw with natural learning.
~Aimee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/16/03 12:45:16 PM, AimeeL73@... writes:
<< I live in a mostly hispanic neighborhood, and it's funny how the second
gener's sound *so different* speaking Spanish than their parents, even tho,
for the
first 4 or 5 years of their life, they only spoke Spanish! I think its the
school system that forces English on them as early as they can get at them.
have more "Texas accent" (or vocabulary, inflection, slang) than kids do. It's
not an evil turning away from one's roots, it's the natural progress of any
living language.
Sandra
<< I live in a mostly hispanic neighborhood, and it's funny how the second
gener's sound *so different* speaking Spanish than their parents, even tho,
for the
first 4 or 5 years of their life, they only spoke Spanish! I think its the
school system that forces English on them as early as they can get at them.
>>That's true of English speakers, too, though. Grandparents in Texas often
have more "Texas accent" (or vocabulary, inflection, slang) than kids do. It's
not an evil turning away from one's roots, it's the natural progress of any
living language.
Sandra
[email protected]
> It'sI dunno, is that a natural progression, or is it the schools homogenizing the
> not an evil turning away from one's roots, it's the natural progress of any
> living language.
language?
~Aimee
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/17/03 11:19:58 AM, AimeeL73@... writes:
<< > It's
the
language? >>
Some of both, but not just schools.
ANY child in 1900 was likely to meet just people from his own part of the
world.
ANY child in 2000 was likely to meet people from all over the world. All the
wars of the 20th century have served to mix people around internally and
internationally, there are freeways, cars, airplanes you don't have to be a
millionaire to travel on, and there's radio, TV sound recordings.
It doesn't take school.
But languages have changed gradually ALWAYS, and within lifetimes. I doubt
there's ever been a time when kids didn't have new and different terms and
phrases from their grandparents, back to cavemen.
Sandra
<< > It's
> not an evil turning away from one's roots, it's the natural progress of any<<I dunno, is that a natural progression, or is it the schools homogenizing
> living language.
the
language? >>
Some of both, but not just schools.
ANY child in 1900 was likely to meet just people from his own part of the
world.
ANY child in 2000 was likely to meet people from all over the world. All the
wars of the 20th century have served to mix people around internally and
internationally, there are freeways, cars, airplanes you don't have to be a
millionaire to travel on, and there's radio, TV sound recordings.
It doesn't take school.
But languages have changed gradually ALWAYS, and within lifetimes. I doubt
there's ever been a time when kids didn't have new and different terms and
phrases from their grandparents, back to cavemen.
Sandra
Crystal
-=But languages have changed gradually ALWAYS, and within lifetimes. I
doubt there's ever been a time when kids didn't have new and different terms
and phrases from their grandparents, back to cavemen.=-
You can see this in period movies. Recently we watched Amistad and Pirates
of the Carribean which are both from the same time period. We also watched
Gods and Generals (this one bored the kids to death. We didn't even finish
it) but it was from a different time period. We noticed how people talked
English so differently in the different time periods.
Crystal
doubt there's ever been a time when kids didn't have new and different terms
and phrases from their grandparents, back to cavemen.=-
You can see this in period movies. Recently we watched Amistad and Pirates
of the Carribean which are both from the same time period. We also watched
Gods and Generals (this one bored the kids to death. We didn't even finish
it) but it was from a different time period. We noticed how people talked
English so differently in the different time periods.
Crystal
Deniz Martinez
--- In [email protected], AimeeL73@c... wrote:
indoctrinate (LOL, that word again) students in one "official"
language, and one "standard" dialect, and this definitely has lead to
many dialects and indeed entire languages becoming endangered or even
extinct.
BTW, There is an excellent and exremely comprehensive online language
database called Ethnologue that you can browse or search through if
you want to learn more about the langugages of the world:
http://www.ethnologue.com
Interesting to read about some of the languages which are dying out
because of government assimilation and/or supression of minority
indigenous tongues...
Deniz
>Government-controlled school systems in various nations often
> > It's
> > not an evil turning away from one's roots, it's the natural
> > progress of any living language.
>
>
> I dunno, is that a natural progression, or is it the schools
> homogenizing the language?
>
> ~Aimee
indoctrinate (LOL, that word again) students in one "official"
language, and one "standard" dialect, and this definitely has lead to
many dialects and indeed entire languages becoming endangered or even
extinct.
BTW, There is an excellent and exremely comprehensive online language
database called Ethnologue that you can browse or search through if
you want to learn more about the langugages of the world:
http://www.ethnologue.com
Interesting to read about some of the languages which are dying out
because of government assimilation and/or supression of minority
indigenous tongues...
Deniz
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/19/03 5:08:58 PM, denizmartinez@... writes:
<< Interesting to read about some of the languages which are dying out
because of government assimilation and/or supression of minority
indigenous tongues...
now, and sorrow about some recently-lost living languages, but it's not a school
issue, it's a cultural issue as old as the movements of people.
Sandra
<< Interesting to read about some of the languages which are dying out
because of government assimilation and/or supression of minority
indigenous tongues...
>>That's gone on since the beginning of time. There's a lot more awareness
now, and sorrow about some recently-lost living languages, but it's not a school
issue, it's a cultural issue as old as the movements of people.
Sandra