Introduction and question: Is unschooling perfect?
Stephanie
Hello. Before I begin, I thought it would be best to introduce
myself. My name is Stephanie and I have two daughters, ages 3 and 6,
who have never been to school. I have been lurking here for about a
year, and haven't ever really mustered up the nerve to post. I read
a lot, when I can, and this email list has been extremely inspiring
and helpful to me. So a quick "thank you" to all who contribute:
Thank you!
Now, the other bit. I have been arguing with people I don't know
about homeschooling, unschooling, and schooling today. This is
annoying in itself, but while I was mulling it over, this thought
came to me: I think it is telling that whenever people argue with me
about school vs. home/unschooling, they always say, "I will readily
admit that school has it's problems, but nothing is perfect." Yet, I
have never felt the need to make a similar statement about
unschooling (school-at-home maybe, but not unschooling). And
further, I don't think that many other unschoolers would feel the
need to either.
But then I thought that maybe that wasn't entirely true. Maybe other
unschoolers do find that unschooling has its problems, maybe even
ones I would agree with. So, I decided to ask you all.
Does unschooling have its own problems? I don't think it's perfect,
but I do think it <i>works</i>, while school does not.
Anyway, there we go. My first real post. Any thoughts?
~Stephanie
myself. My name is Stephanie and I have two daughters, ages 3 and 6,
who have never been to school. I have been lurking here for about a
year, and haven't ever really mustered up the nerve to post. I read
a lot, when I can, and this email list has been extremely inspiring
and helpful to me. So a quick "thank you" to all who contribute:
Thank you!
Now, the other bit. I have been arguing with people I don't know
about homeschooling, unschooling, and schooling today. This is
annoying in itself, but while I was mulling it over, this thought
came to me: I think it is telling that whenever people argue with me
about school vs. home/unschooling, they always say, "I will readily
admit that school has it's problems, but nothing is perfect." Yet, I
have never felt the need to make a similar statement about
unschooling (school-at-home maybe, but not unschooling). And
further, I don't think that many other unschoolers would feel the
need to either.
But then I thought that maybe that wasn't entirely true. Maybe other
unschoolers do find that unschooling has its problems, maybe even
ones I would agree with. So, I decided to ask you all.
Does unschooling have its own problems? I don't think it's perfect,
but I do think it <i>works</i>, while school does not.
Anyway, there we go. My first real post. Any thoughts?
~Stephanie
Jon and Rue Kream
I can't think of anything I (or the kids, or Jon) don't like about
unschooling. To us, it's just life, and life is pretty cool :0). ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
unschooling. To us, it's just life, and life is pretty cool :0). ~Rue
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
glad2bmadly
As a very new unschooler I have to say that I am having a problem with the contrast between what we are doing (attempting to moment to moment give our sons freedom and respect) and what the kids (parents) they are often around are all about. When my 6 year old recently came back from a week long trip to the beach with his cousin, Aunt and Uncle I wished I could put him in a decompression chamber that would release him from all the negative influences he had experienced. His cousin spends a lot of time in school, after school programs, camp and then doing parent created home work (even on vacation I found out). They don't read to him (he is 6 as well); they have him read to them every night. The uncle teased my son, after my son had been making friends with some girls and playing with them for a few hours, saying "Gillen has a girl friend"... Now Gillen thinks he is not cool if he plays with girls (I know this is probably temporary). He also learns a lot of school -like
competitive stuff when he plays with school kids (some of them). It takes him days or weeks to leave this stuff behind. I am probably oversensitive to it, but this issue is the hard part to me. I don't want to shelter my children. I want to provide a model of staying true to myself so they will be true to themselves as well. And I don't want them to feel that it is "us" versus "them". But lately, I often feel that way. When I am feeling judgemental I want to be able to inflence these people I'm judging by my parenting rather than trying to recruit them, verbally, to my way of thinking! I guess this is all about unschooling in a society that has so many completely other end of the spectrum beliefs about education.
Madeline
Stephanie <Mam2474@...> wrote:
Does unschooling have its own problems? I don't think it's perfect,
but I do think it <i>works</i>, while school does not.
Anyway, there we go. My first real post. Any thoughts?
~Stephanie
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competitive stuff when he plays with school kids (some of them). It takes him days or weeks to leave this stuff behind. I am probably oversensitive to it, but this issue is the hard part to me. I don't want to shelter my children. I want to provide a model of staying true to myself so they will be true to themselves as well. And I don't want them to feel that it is "us" versus "them". But lately, I often feel that way. When I am feeling judgemental I want to be able to inflence these people I'm judging by my parenting rather than trying to recruit them, verbally, to my way of thinking! I guess this is all about unschooling in a society that has so many completely other end of the spectrum beliefs about education.
Madeline
Stephanie <Mam2474@...> wrote:
Does unschooling have its own problems? I don't think it's perfect,
but I do think it <i>works</i>, while school does not.
Anyway, there we go. My first real post. Any thoughts?
~Stephanie
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Julie Solich
>> Does unschooling have its own problems? I don't think it's perfect, butI do think it <i>works</i>, while school does not.<<
I think the only problems I have had unschooling have been the ones I have
brought to it. I feel like I have been wearing layers and layers of
unneccessary clothes and I am gradually peeling them off. The sense of
freedom inside me is growing all the time.
My husband's problem when we first began was that unschooling was too much
like utopia for the kids and "how will they learn to cope in the real
world?". He doesn't think like that now and wants the kids to have the
happiest childhood they can.
I think when adults say that sort of thing, it comes from jealousy and a
resentment that they didn't have that freedom when they were young. Kinda
sad.
Julie
>the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
>
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>
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Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>email to:
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
> [email protected]
>
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>
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>
>
>
Nancy Liedel
The biggest problem about unschooling is I cannot take off and do what I
want, when I want during the day anymore. My time is no longer just my time.
I really don't care, I love my kids but some days I miss getting grocery
shopping done without someone grabbing food I will not have in my house (Mud
and Bugs cereal comes to mind, I have one with a wheat allergy) and tossing
it in the cart. If that is the worst thing I can say about it then I think I
am on the right track.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
want, when I want during the day anymore. My time is no longer just my time.
I really don't care, I love my kids but some days I miss getting grocery
shopping done without someone grabbing food I will not have in my house (Mud
and Bugs cereal comes to mind, I have one with a wheat allergy) and tossing
it in the cart. If that is the worst thing I can say about it then I think I
am on the right track.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bill and Diane
Yeah, OK, unschooling does have its problems. Parents feel isolated
often, if all their friends and family are school/school-at-homers. Many
families find it difficult to carve out time/money issues. Parents often
feel a loss of free time (although I often think that's a
grass-is-greener issue in that few PS parents have much free time
between taxiing, working, etc).
Kids missout on all kinds of experiences--I mean my kids may grow to
adulthood without ever knowing how to fake illness. They don't know you
have to drop whatever you're doing, no matter how interesting, every 50
minutes, or keep doing something, no matter how dull, for 50 minutes.
They'll never understand that you can't get away from unpleasant, even
dangerous, people and that you have no power over where you go when or
who you associate with. How will they ever know that how you hold your
pants when you go to the restroom is a major issue you can hear about
for months (and hear in your head for the rest of your life)?
And many more.
:-) Diane
often, if all their friends and family are school/school-at-homers. Many
families find it difficult to carve out time/money issues. Parents often
feel a loss of free time (although I often think that's a
grass-is-greener issue in that few PS parents have much free time
between taxiing, working, etc).
Kids missout on all kinds of experiences--I mean my kids may grow to
adulthood without ever knowing how to fake illness. They don't know you
have to drop whatever you're doing, no matter how interesting, every 50
minutes, or keep doing something, no matter how dull, for 50 minutes.
They'll never understand that you can't get away from unpleasant, even
dangerous, people and that you have no power over where you go when or
who you associate with. How will they ever know that how you hold your
pants when you go to the restroom is a major issue you can hear about
for months (and hear in your head for the rest of your life)?
And many more.
:-) Diane
>>>Does unschooling have its own problems? I don't think it's perfect, but
>>>
>I do think it <i>works</i>, while school does not.<<
>
>I think the only problems I have had unschooling have been the ones I have
>brought to it. I feel like I have been wearing layers and layers of
>unneccessary clothes and I am gradually peeling them off. The sense of
>freedom inside me is growing all the time.
>
> My husband's problem when we first began was that unschooling was too much
>like utopia for the kids and "how will they learn to cope in the real
>world?". He doesn't think like that now and wants the kids to have the
>happiest childhood they can.
>
> I think when adults say that sort of thing, it comes from jealousy and a
>resentment that they didn't have that freedom when they were young. Kinda
>sad.
>
>Julie
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/4/03 8:25:35 PM, Mam2474@... writes:
<< I think it is telling that whenever people argue with me
about school vs. home/unschooling, they always say, "I will readily
admit that school has it's problems, but nothing is perfect." Yet, I
have never felt the need to make a similar statement about
unschooling (school-at-home maybe, but not unschooling). >>
REALLY great point.
<<Does unschooling have its own problems? I don't think it's perfect,
but I do think it works, while school does not.>>
My first thought was if the kids were in school I could have a job and we'd
have more money, but that's not entirely a done deal. School lets out early,
and lots of people have kids spread out in age, so it's either paying
babysitters, having latchkey kids, or afterschool programs or SOMETHING.
So cancel that disadvantage. I would probably still be home if they were in
school, and there are lots of school expenses, even with public school, so we
would be poorer, not richer, if they were in school.
Lots of parents think they would get tired of being with their kids every
day, but I haven't found that to be a problem at all. In the same way if you
hang around with another friend (like an adult now, for me, or a kid when I was a
kid), if you see them every day you have LOTS more to talk about than if you
just see them once a week.
I had a long lunch with a friend from my home town on Friday, at the airport
as she was leaving New Mexico after visiting her mom. We could have talked
for HOURS, but we had years' worth of stuff to share. I could have talked for
hours with my friend who was here Saturday, too, because I know about all
kinds of aspects of his daily life, and he about mine.
My kids and I talk about everything. Their friends, mine; their collections,
mine; their childhoods, mine; their dreams and ideas and funny thoughts,
mine. Yet I see people whose kids are in school, and they have very little to
talk about, and very little time to try to do it.
Another advantage.
Sandra
<< I think it is telling that whenever people argue with me
about school vs. home/unschooling, they always say, "I will readily
admit that school has it's problems, but nothing is perfect." Yet, I
have never felt the need to make a similar statement about
unschooling (school-at-home maybe, but not unschooling). >>
REALLY great point.
<<Does unschooling have its own problems? I don't think it's perfect,
but I do think it works, while school does not.>>
My first thought was if the kids were in school I could have a job and we'd
have more money, but that's not entirely a done deal. School lets out early,
and lots of people have kids spread out in age, so it's either paying
babysitters, having latchkey kids, or afterschool programs or SOMETHING.
So cancel that disadvantage. I would probably still be home if they were in
school, and there are lots of school expenses, even with public school, so we
would be poorer, not richer, if they were in school.
Lots of parents think they would get tired of being with their kids every
day, but I haven't found that to be a problem at all. In the same way if you
hang around with another friend (like an adult now, for me, or a kid when I was a
kid), if you see them every day you have LOTS more to talk about than if you
just see them once a week.
I had a long lunch with a friend from my home town on Friday, at the airport
as she was leaving New Mexico after visiting her mom. We could have talked
for HOURS, but we had years' worth of stuff to share. I could have talked for
hours with my friend who was here Saturday, too, because I know about all
kinds of aspects of his daily life, and he about mine.
My kids and I talk about everything. Their friends, mine; their collections,
mine; their childhoods, mine; their dreams and ideas and funny thoughts,
mine. Yet I see people whose kids are in school, and they have very little to
talk about, and very little time to try to do it.
Another advantage.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/4/03 9:23:59 PM, glad2bmadly@... writes:
<< I am probably oversensitive to it, but this issue is the hard part to me.
I don't want to shelter my children. >>
I do.
When they're with "school kids" I've just said to the other kids that one of
the best things about my kids not going to school is they don't learn that
school-kid bullying, and I don't want them learning it at home (or wherever it
is) either.
Most kids have been great about that when I pointed it out. They do it
without thinking, so giving them reason to think isn't too bad!
Maybe you could mention to your relatives the next time that you don't want
him coming back feeling like he's been to school.
Sandra
<< I am probably oversensitive to it, but this issue is the hard part to me.
I don't want to shelter my children. >>
I do.
When they're with "school kids" I've just said to the other kids that one of
the best things about my kids not going to school is they don't learn that
school-kid bullying, and I don't want them learning it at home (or wherever it
is) either.
Most kids have been great about that when I pointed it out. They do it
without thinking, so giving them reason to think isn't too bad!
Maybe you could mention to your relatives the next time that you don't want
him coming back feeling like he's been to school.
Sandra
Dave and Shannon
My neighbor, who has been hs her two ds ages 9 and 6 for three years is now
faced with having to put them in school starting Thursday. Her Dh is the
one deciding that HE wants them to go to school. He just doesn't feel that
she is doing an adequate job of teaching them. Now the reason I'm writing
to you all is because she wants me to convince her dh that hs is best for
them. I've already told her that if I talk to him, I'm going to give him
the UNschooling slant. My question to you is what do or can I say to him
that would make any difference to him at this point?
Thanks for any advice
Shan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
faced with having to put them in school starting Thursday. Her Dh is the
one deciding that HE wants them to go to school. He just doesn't feel that
she is doing an adequate job of teaching them. Now the reason I'm writing
to you all is because she wants me to convince her dh that hs is best for
them. I've already told her that if I talk to him, I'm going to give him
the UNschooling slant. My question to you is what do or can I say to him
that would make any difference to him at this point?
Thanks for any advice
Shan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Backstrom kelli
alright, here is the latest thing that people say to me now when I tell them we are going to keep our youngest ones home... "Oh, that is great for YOU, but I could never do it" or "how in the world would I get my children to listen to me (or even better to "mind" me) .... these arguements make me so much happier that I have chosen this route ... but alas, also I feel a little saddened by the reality that most parents feel this way :( Kelli
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 8/4/03 8:25:35 PM, Mam2474@... writes:
<< I think it is telling that whenever people argue with me
about school vs. home/unschooling, they always say, "I will readily
admit that school has it's problems, but nothing is perfect." Yet, I
have never felt the need to make a similar statement about
unschooling (school-at-home maybe, but not unschooling). >>
REALLY great point.
<<Does unschooling have its own problems? I don't think it's perfect,
but I do think it works, while school does not.>>
My first thought was if the kids were in school I could have a job and we'd
have more money, but that's not entirely a done deal. School lets out early,
and lots of people have kids spread out in age, so it's either paying
babysitters, having latchkey kids, or afterschool programs or SOMETHING.
So cancel that disadvantage. I would probably still be home if they were in
school, and there are lots of school expenses, even with public school, so we
would be poorer, not richer, if they were in school.
Lots of parents think they would get tired of being with their kids every
day, but I haven't found that to be a problem at all. In the same way if you
hang around with another friend (like an adult now, for me, or a kid when I was a
kid), if you see them every day you have LOTS more to talk about than if you
just see them once a week.
I had a long lunch with a friend from my home town on Friday, at the airport
as she was leaving New Mexico after visiting her mom. We could have talked
for HOURS, but we had years' worth of stuff to share. I could have talked for
hours with my friend who was here Saturday, too, because I know about all
kinds of aspects of his daily life, and he about mine.
My kids and I talk about everything. Their friends, mine; their collections,
mine; their childhoods, mine; their dreams and ideas and funny thoughts,
mine. Yet I see people whose kids are in school, and they have very little to
talk about, and very little time to try to do it.
Another advantage.
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 8/4/03 8:25:35 PM, Mam2474@... writes:
<< I think it is telling that whenever people argue with me
about school vs. home/unschooling, they always say, "I will readily
admit that school has it's problems, but nothing is perfect." Yet, I
have never felt the need to make a similar statement about
unschooling (school-at-home maybe, but not unschooling). >>
REALLY great point.
<<Does unschooling have its own problems? I don't think it's perfect,
but I do think it works, while school does not.>>
My first thought was if the kids were in school I could have a job and we'd
have more money, but that's not entirely a done deal. School lets out early,
and lots of people have kids spread out in age, so it's either paying
babysitters, having latchkey kids, or afterschool programs or SOMETHING.
So cancel that disadvantage. I would probably still be home if they were in
school, and there are lots of school expenses, even with public school, so we
would be poorer, not richer, if they were in school.
Lots of parents think they would get tired of being with their kids every
day, but I haven't found that to be a problem at all. In the same way if you
hang around with another friend (like an adult now, for me, or a kid when I was a
kid), if you see them every day you have LOTS more to talk about than if you
just see them once a week.
I had a long lunch with a friend from my home town on Friday, at the airport
as she was leaving New Mexico after visiting her mom. We could have talked
for HOURS, but we had years' worth of stuff to share. I could have talked for
hours with my friend who was here Saturday, too, because I know about all
kinds of aspects of his daily life, and he about mine.
My kids and I talk about everything. Their friends, mine; their collections,
mine; their childhoods, mine; their dreams and ideas and funny thoughts,
mine. Yet I see people whose kids are in school, and they have very little to
talk about, and very little time to try to do it.
Another advantage.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Liedel
The truthful answer is "sometimes they don't listen and minding? (try not to
laugh here), but they are happy"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
laugh here), but they are happy"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Liedel
Shannon,
You are a braver woman than I.. I would run away from this cause you are
going to be the bad person no matter what (OK I am feeling pessimistic here
but we had some scary news about our preemie today so I am not the most
cheerful person on the planet). I avoid husband/wife debates LIKE THE
PLAGUE!!! but if you want to... I would find out what he thinks is wrong
with what they are learning now and how he expects school to fix it.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You are a braver woman than I.. I would run away from this cause you are
going to be the bad person no matter what (OK I am feeling pessimistic here
but we had some scary news about our preemie today so I am not the most
cheerful person on the planet). I avoid husband/wife debates LIKE THE
PLAGUE!!! but if you want to... I would find out what he thinks is wrong
with what they are learning now and how he expects school to fix it.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary
Not really sure you could say anything to make a difference. But if you want
to give it a try, I would compile some studies on homeschoolers, you know
how much better they do with testing and social aspects. I would get a list
of the famous homeschoolers throughout history, maybe even getting some
homeschoolers now of famous people if you think that might get to him. I
would find articles about homeschoolers winning spelling bees and science
fairs. Also look for some writings about kids learning at their own pace and
how important that is for them. Men, in general seem to be more impressed
with this kind of information regarding their kids education. Good luck.
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
<<From: "Dave and Shannon" <davenshan@...>
to give it a try, I would compile some studies on homeschoolers, you know
how much better they do with testing and social aspects. I would get a list
of the famous homeschoolers throughout history, maybe even getting some
homeschoolers now of famous people if you think that might get to him. I
would find articles about homeschoolers winning spelling bees and science
fairs. Also look for some writings about kids learning at their own pace and
how important that is for them. Men, in general seem to be more impressed
with this kind of information regarding their kids education. Good luck.
Mary B.
http://www.homeschoolingtshirts.com
<<From: "Dave and Shannon" <davenshan@...>
> My neighbor, who has been hs her two ds ages 9 and 6 for three years isnow
> faced with having to put them in school starting Thursday. Her Dh is thethat
> one deciding that HE wants them to go to school. He just doesn't feel
> she is doing an adequate job of teaching them. Now the reason I'm writing
> to you all is because she wants me to convince her dh that hs is best for
> them. I've already told her that if I talk to him, I'm going to give him
> the UNschooling slant. My question to you is what do or can I say to him
> that would make any difference to him at this point?>>
Paradox
Diane
Brilliant !
Thanks.
Chris Swift
HEQT - Home Education Question Time
All the latest HE / HS news + debate.
To subscribe : HEQT-subscribe@...
Web Page: http://HEQT.parabiodox.com/
Brilliant !
Thanks.
Chris Swift
HEQT - Home Education Question Time
All the latest HE / HS news + debate.
To subscribe : HEQT-subscribe@...
Web Page: http://HEQT.parabiodox.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill and Diane" <cen46624@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-Discussion] Introduction and question: Is
unschooling perfect?
> Yeah, OK, unschooling does have its problems. Parents feel isolated
> often, if all their friends and family are school/school-at-homers. Many
> families find it difficult to carve out time/money issues. Parents often
> feel a loss of free time (although I often think that's a
> grass-is-greener issue in that few PS parents have much free time
> between taxiing, working, etc).
>
> Kids missout on all kinds of experiences--I mean my kids may grow to
> adulthood without ever knowing how to fake illness. They don't know you
> have to drop whatever you're doing, no matter how interesting, every 50
> minutes, or keep doing something, no matter how dull, for 50 minutes.
> They'll never understand that you can't get away from unpleasant, even
> dangerous, people and that you have no power over where you go when or
> who you associate with. How will they ever know that how you hold your
> pants when you go to the restroom is a major issue you can hear about
> for months (and hear in your head for the rest of your life)?
>
> And many more.
>
> :-) Diane
Paradox
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave and Shannon" <davenshan@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 9:05 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-Discussion] HELP!
Shan
What has prompted the change ?
Is there something he thinks they should know and don't ?
Has he been embarrased in front of someone else's kids by his own kids
apparent lack of education ?
Or is it a general reaction to HS ? Again it would be useful to find out
what's prompted the change.
Is it conceivable that it's nothing to do with education but just wanting to
have a go at her ?
Chris
> My neighbor, who has been hs her two ds ages 9 and 6 for three years is
now
> faced with having to put them in school starting Thursday. Her Dh is the
> one deciding that HE wants them to go to school. He just doesn't feel
that
> she is doing an adequate job of teaching them. Now the reason I'm writing
> to you all is because she wants me to convince her dh that hs is best for
> them. I've already told her that if I talk to him, I'm going to give him
> the UNschooling slant. My question to you is what do or can I say to him
> that would make any difference to him at this point?
>
> Thanks for any advice
>
> Shan
Tia Leschke
>(OK I am feeling pessimistic here
> but we had some scary news about our preemie today so I am not the mostNancy, I just wanted to let you know that I've been through the preemie
> cheerful person on the planet).
roller coaster ride and understand something of what you're going through.
Hang in there. I'm keeping you, your family, and tiny one in my thoughts.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Tia Leschke
> Not really sure you could say anything to make a difference. But if youwant
> to give it a try, I would compile some studies on homeschoolers, you knowlist
> how much better they do with testing and social aspects. I would get a
> of the famous homeschoolers throughout history, maybe even getting someand
> homeschoolers now of famous people if you think that might get to him. I
> would find articles about homeschoolers winning spelling bees and science
> fairs. Also look for some writings about kids learning at their own pace
> how important that is for them. Men, in general seem to be more impressedBut this dad apparently doesn't think the mother has done a good enough job,
> with this kind of information regarding their kids education. Good luck.
so talking about other homeschoolers probably won't help much. What someone
said about finding out exactly what's bothering him about the kids' learning
and trying to deal with that would probably have more of an effect.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
24hrmom
<< Now the reason I'm writing to you all is because she wants me to convince her dh that hs is best for them. I've already told her that if I talk to him, I'm going to give him the UNschooling slant. My question to you is what do or can I say to him that would make any difference to him at this point?
Shan>>
Well, I wouldn't take on the job of convincing her husband, but you could give her some information that may help her convince him to continue homeschooling. You mentioned he was worried that she wasn't doing an adequate job of teaching them. Maybe she should try shift the focus from her teaching to what they are learning and point out all the learning that is happening at home. Maybe if it doesn't look like school learning, he's not seeing it. You can be supportive by being available to him for questions he may have about how it works in another family.
It sounds like he might benefit from a bit of "academic" support for homeschooling as well. There's a paper that was published by The Fraser Institute (an independent Canadian economic and social research and educational organization) in 2001 that reviews homeschooling in North America entitled "Home Schooling: From the Extreme to the Mainstream".
Executive Summary: This paper establishes that home schooling is a thriving educational movement both in Canada and the United States. It also empirically demonstrates that the academic and socialization outcomes for the average home schooled child are superior to those experienced by the average public school student.
Here's a link to the paper overview:
http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=pb&id=253
It does state in the paper that of the two main "strains" of homeschooling, the second strain traces it's lineage to John Holt: "Holt advocated educational democratization and greater parental autonomy (sometimes known as "laissez-faire home schooling"), more recently referred to as unschooling." So it can't be claimed that the successful outcomes the author found were based exclusively on "school-at-home" environments.
And a link to the actual paper - a pdf file (need Adobe Reader):
http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/admin/books/files/homeschool.pdf
Maybe she can print it and read it to/with her husband, or at least ask him read it and discuss it after.
Pam L.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shan>>
Well, I wouldn't take on the job of convincing her husband, but you could give her some information that may help her convince him to continue homeschooling. You mentioned he was worried that she wasn't doing an adequate job of teaching them. Maybe she should try shift the focus from her teaching to what they are learning and point out all the learning that is happening at home. Maybe if it doesn't look like school learning, he's not seeing it. You can be supportive by being available to him for questions he may have about how it works in another family.
It sounds like he might benefit from a bit of "academic" support for homeschooling as well. There's a paper that was published by The Fraser Institute (an independent Canadian economic and social research and educational organization) in 2001 that reviews homeschooling in North America entitled "Home Schooling: From the Extreme to the Mainstream".
Executive Summary: This paper establishes that home schooling is a thriving educational movement both in Canada and the United States. It also empirically demonstrates that the academic and socialization outcomes for the average home schooled child are superior to those experienced by the average public school student.
Here's a link to the paper overview:
http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=pb&id=253
It does state in the paper that of the two main "strains" of homeschooling, the second strain traces it's lineage to John Holt: "Holt advocated educational democratization and greater parental autonomy (sometimes known as "laissez-faire home schooling"), more recently referred to as unschooling." So it can't be claimed that the successful outcomes the author found were based exclusively on "school-at-home" environments.
And a link to the actual paper - a pdf file (need Adobe Reader):
http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/admin/books/files/homeschool.pdf
Maybe she can print it and read it to/with her husband, or at least ask him read it and discuss it after.
Pam L.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alan & Brenda Leonard
8/5/03 18:59:
unschooling imperfect, it's related to walking through life constantly
feeling out of step. Even though I *choose* be be out of step, it's still
annoying sometime. It's all that good socialization I got in school -- I
hear the drummer and start thinking conform, conform. But my heart doesn't
want to. So I like being out of step with the world, but it's also a
bother.
But that's a small thing, really, for the peace and joy that unschooling
brings us.
brenda
> OK, so I went way off about me and mine, but the answer to your question is,I'm in agreement with Rhonda about this. If there's a way I find
> for US, unschooling is perfect. We can't imagine living any other way and
> would never go back to a school mentality. We trust each other & our kids and
> our
> family trusts us. So we would call that perfect all by itself.
unschooling imperfect, it's related to walking through life constantly
feeling out of step. Even though I *choose* be be out of step, it's still
annoying sometime. It's all that good socialization I got in school -- I
hear the drummer and start thinking conform, conform. But my heart doesn't
want to. So I like being out of step with the world, but it's also a
bother.
But that's a small thing, really, for the peace and joy that unschooling
brings us.
brenda
Nancy Liedel
Tia,
After 7 weeks in the NICU (he is due next week but came in May) everything
was looking good... then the projectile vomiting started. He is being seen
at the U of M later today for a pre surgical work up. I am hoping he does
not need surgery (hope is too weak a word)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
After 7 weeks in the NICU (he is due next week but came in May) everything
was looking good... then the projectile vomiting started. He is being seen
at the U of M later today for a pre surgical work up. I am hoping he does
not need surgery (hope is too weak a word)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>Wow! He really was early. Mine was 2 months early and 3 1/2 pounds.
> After 7 weeks in the NICU (he is due next week but came in May) everything
> was looking good... then the projectile vomiting started. He is being seen
> at the U of M later today for a pre surgical work up. I am hoping he does
> not need surgery (hope is too weak a word)
I'm trying to think of what kinds of problems the projectile vomiting would
indicate at this point. Hope it's minor, even if surgery is needed.
I'm going away for a few days, but keep us posted. I'll be thinking about
him and you.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Nancy Liedel
Tia,
It is GERD. Gastro Esophageal Reflux Disease. In preemies this is often
caused by a polyp growing the gastro-intestinal tract. You can feel it on
his little tummy. It feels like an olive (doctors description).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It is GERD. Gastro Esophageal Reflux Disease. In preemies this is often
caused by a polyp growing the gastro-intestinal tract. You can feel it on
his little tummy. It feels like an olive (doctors description).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dave and Shannon
Well, when she mentioned it to me, my immediate response was that there was
no way he was going to listen to me. I mean, who am I to him? Ykwim? But
she kept asking, so that's when I came here for some thoughts. I didn't end
up being the bad person. But like I thought, my being there and giving my
two cents has not changed his mind whatsoever. It seems that she needs to
work on their relationship first, like having dinner earlier than 9pm and
having the house a little orderlier (is that a word?) and doing the wash a
little more often. I think if she works on that, he would be more inclined
to think that she could handle the homeschooling part. (because there is no
way they would even talk about my unschooling) the one thing he mentioned
is that the 9yo doesn't read yet and she kept saying that yes he does read.
I interjected with a question "what is the magic number that a person is
supposed to be able to read?" Of course he didn't have an answer for that.
So I said, then why is it a big deal that Kody can't read yet? He's going
to learn to read but in his own time. Well, that just wasn't good enough
for him. I really didn't talk much. They talked to each other and I just
kind of sat there most of the time. It felt kind of weird listening to them
air out their dirty laundry in front of me.
So after about 30 minutes, Quinn got a dirty diaper and I had to go home.
It was good timing actually, because he wouldn't budge and I was getting
tired of listening to them blame each other.
Thanks for everyone's thoughts on this.
Shannon Buckley
Mom to Connor 3-15-97, Carsten born at home 4-27-99/5-19-00 and Quinn born
at home 8-08-02
-----Original Message-----
From: Nancy Liedel [mailto:naliedel@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 1:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-Discussion] HELP!
Shannon,
You are a braver woman than I.. I would run away from this cause you are
going to be the bad person no matter what (OK I am feeling pessimistic here
but we had some scary news about our preemie today so I am not the most
cheerful person on the planet). I avoid husband/wife debates LIKE THE
PLAGUE!!! but if you want to... I would find out what he thinks is wrong
with what they are learning now and how he expects school to fix it.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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shin>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
no way he was going to listen to me. I mean, who am I to him? Ykwim? But
she kept asking, so that's when I came here for some thoughts. I didn't end
up being the bad person. But like I thought, my being there and giving my
two cents has not changed his mind whatsoever. It seems that she needs to
work on their relationship first, like having dinner earlier than 9pm and
having the house a little orderlier (is that a word?) and doing the wash a
little more often. I think if she works on that, he would be more inclined
to think that she could handle the homeschooling part. (because there is no
way they would even talk about my unschooling) the one thing he mentioned
is that the 9yo doesn't read yet and she kept saying that yes he does read.
I interjected with a question "what is the magic number that a person is
supposed to be able to read?" Of course he didn't have an answer for that.
So I said, then why is it a big deal that Kody can't read yet? He's going
to learn to read but in his own time. Well, that just wasn't good enough
for him. I really didn't talk much. They talked to each other and I just
kind of sat there most of the time. It felt kind of weird listening to them
air out their dirty laundry in front of me.
So after about 30 minutes, Quinn got a dirty diaper and I had to go home.
It was good timing actually, because he wouldn't budge and I was getting
tired of listening to them blame each other.
Thanks for everyone's thoughts on this.
Shannon Buckley
Mom to Connor 3-15-97, Carsten born at home 4-27-99/5-19-00 and Quinn born
at home 8-08-02
-----Original Message-----
From: Nancy Liedel [mailto:naliedel@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 1:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-Discussion] HELP!
Shannon,
You are a braver woman than I.. I would run away from this cause you are
going to be the bad person no matter what (OK I am feeling pessimistic here
but we had some scary news about our preemie today so I am not the most
cheerful person on the planet). I avoid husband/wife debates LIKE THE
PLAGUE!!! but if you want to... I would find out what he thinks is wrong
with what they are learning now and how he expects school to fix it.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=245454.3656311.4921741.1764878/D=egroupweb/S=17050819
72:HM/A=1457557/R=0/SIG=11fnoapuk/*http://paperl.com/clk/kunmaijiryukebyoshi
shin>
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the
moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Shannon, you're noble to have tried to help your neighbor. My first thought
was that she married him and has to live with all the realities of that.
Unschooling made my relationship better than it would have been, but it's
impossible to convey that to someone who's in the throes of a dark season.
School might be all it takes to remind them that school isn't so great!
Maybe the kids will be back before the year's out. Maybe they'll LIKE school. (I
did.)
Sandra
was that she married him and has to live with all the realities of that.
Unschooling made my relationship better than it would have been, but it's
impossible to convey that to someone who's in the throes of a dark season.
School might be all it takes to remind them that school isn't so great!
Maybe the kids will be back before the year's out. Maybe they'll LIKE school. (I
did.)
Sandra
Dave and Shannon
<Shannon, you're noble to have tried to help your neighbor.
Thanks!
<My first thought
<was that she married him and has to live with all the realities of that.
Yep, you're right, Sandra.
<Unschooling made my relationship better than it would have been, but it's
<impossible to convey that to someone who's in the throes of a dark season.
I agree. Unschooling allows for so much more in the family, let alone the
relationship with your spouse.
<School might be all it takes to remind them that school isn't so great!
<Maybe the kids will be back before the year's out. Maybe they'll LIKE
<school. (I
<did.)
I hope so. The oldest boy doesn't want to even talk about school because
the idea upsets him so much. The younger boy doesn't mind having to go. So
we'll see what happens.
Shannon Buckley
Mom to Connor 3-15-97, Carsten born at home 4-27-99/5-19-00 and Quinn born
at home 8-08-02
-----Original Message-----
From: Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks!
<My first thought
<was that she married him and has to live with all the realities of that.
Yep, you're right, Sandra.
<Unschooling made my relationship better than it would have been, but it's
<impossible to convey that to someone who's in the throes of a dark season.
I agree. Unschooling allows for so much more in the family, let alone the
relationship with your spouse.
<School might be all it takes to remind them that school isn't so great!
<Maybe the kids will be back before the year's out. Maybe they'll LIKE
<school. (I
<did.)
I hope so. The oldest boy doesn't want to even talk about school because
the idea upsets him so much. The younger boy doesn't mind having to go. So
we'll see what happens.
Shannon Buckley
Mom to Connor 3-15-97, Carsten born at home 4-27-99/5-19-00 and Quinn born
at home 8-08-02
-----Original Message-----
From: Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]