Forwarding a Hem networking list, READ IT!
Nichole
Forwarding a Hem networking list, READ IT!----------
From: [email protected]
Reply-To: [email protected]
Date: 29 Jul 2003 09:28:01 -0000
To: [email protected]
Subject: [HEM-Networking] Digest Number 1795
Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine:
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
I sent out an email over the weekend, but you all oveer looked the Federal legislation of homeschooling bill.
Within this list there are several letters addressing this issue. Helen Hegener's is a must read. If you don't have time today, read it tonight.
Denny Rehburg is our Rep and the persom to call, fax, email, etc...in MONTANA.
Barda
There are 12 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Two questions at the heart of the issue
From: "Denese Kolb" <DCOLB@...>
2. Re: RE: legislative discussion
From: "N.McV." <nmcvick@...>
3. Re: Two questions at the heart of the issue
From: jjnlt@...
4. Re: Two questions at the heart of the issue
From: Cindy DeBerge <cindy_deberge@...>
5. My response to HONDA
From: Helen Hegener <HEM-Editor@...>
6. Interscholastic sports?
From: "kathryn nelson" <knelso2@...>
7. Re: Interscholastic sports?
From: "Daryl Cobranchi" <dcobranchi@...>
8. Homeschoolers in Bowie, MD?
From: Stacey Zornes <smzornes@...>
9. Re: Two questions at the heart of the issue
From: "Alpenmaedl" <alpenmaedl@...>
10. Re: Living up to ones potential
From: "Edith Anne Burkhalter" <EdithAnne54@...>
11. Pittsburgh, southern Michigan, Columbus - Aug. 14-16
From: "shantinik" <shantinik@...>
12. Re: Pittsburgh, southern Michigan, Columbus - Aug. 14-16
From: "Edith Anne Burkhalter" <EdithAnne54@...>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:36:29 -0400
From: "Denese Kolb" <DCOLB@...>
Subject: Re: Two questions at the heart of the issue
My question is: what are the repercussions when public schooled kids become burdens on society because they weren't properly educated?
Cindy
My answer, look around you.
Denese
---------------------------------
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:49:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: "N.McV." <nmcvick@...>
Subject: Re: RE: legislative discussion
Some of us are starting discussion on the local and
state level, and we are gearing up for action. NJHA is
taking a stand against this bill. We hope to kill it
now, while it's in committee.
Nancy McVicker
Member, Steering Committee
New Jersey Homeschool Association
--- Helen Hegener <HEM-Editor@...>
wrote:
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:09:31 EDT
From: jjnlt@...
Subject: Re: Two questions at the heart of the issue
Elise writes:
<< This is the kind of thinking that is used to justify all manner of
restrictions and regulations. Until people get it that freedom only exists when we
_all_ have it, then no one is going to have it. >>
Bingo!
Blessings,
Joanne
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:24:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Cindy DeBerge <cindy_deberge@...>
Subject: Re: Two questions at the heart of the issue
My answer, look around you.
Denese
My point exactly.
Cindy
---------------------------------
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:37:21 -0800
From: Helen Hegener <HEM-Editor@...>
Subject: My response to HONDA
There are many reasons to be concerned about the HONDA bill. Perhaps
first and foremost is the fact that this bill opens the door to
federal regulation of homeschooling and creates the potential for
additional legislation and increased regulation. Once passed, this
bill becomes law. And once it is law the agencies responsible for
enforcing compliance with the law will write regulations based on
their interpretations of it; those regulations will be written by
people who may or may not have a good understanding of homeschooling,
but they'll be regulations with the force of law behind them. The
potential for conflict and years of working to clarify intent is
tremendous.
The relationship between homeschoolers and the state differs from
state to state and is the result of many years of citizen involvement
with the legislative process. While some states still have difficult
situations, in many others years of hard work by homeschoolers would
stand to be undermined by this bill. In some states there are strong
support groups in place to act as watchdogs and oversee what might
happen as a result of this bill. But what will happen in those states
without cohesive homeschool support groups?
The claim in Sec. 2 that homeschooling is "an effective means for
young people to achieve success on standardized tests" is downright
foolish. What purpose could possibly be served by linking
homeschooling with standardized testing in federal legislation?
The fact is, this is a poorly written omnibus bill which messes with
multiple issues such as the Individuals with Disabilities Education
Act (IDEA), the Internal Revenue Code and federal tax issues, child
labor laws, the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA), a
federal scholarship program and more - but addresses them as they
specifically relate to homeschoolers. These are issues which - if
addressed at all - should be more broadly addressed, and should
guarantee equal rights and services for everyone rather than asking
for special favors specifically for homeschoolers. We do not need
these issues addressed in our name, because we do not need to become
a special interest group in the eyes of federal legislators.
But there's an even larger question to ask, and that is: Why the move
to strengthen the power of the federal government over what has
always been a state concern? Constitutionally, education is the
province of the states, and bills like this one force a conflict
between the federal government and state governments.
Whose long-range purposes are really being served with this bill?
Helen
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:28:34 -0400
From: "kathryn nelson" <knelso2@...>
Subject: Interscholastic sports?
Hello,
I'm not sure if I've posted this message before on this board so please
bare with me if I have.
We live in New York State and my sons are home schooled. The high school
varsity baseball coach is trying to recruit them for his team. As far as I
know they are not eligible to play on high school teams. However, I found
the information below on the Home School Legal Defense Association's website
and now I'm not sure if they're eligible or not. Can someone clear this up
for me?
What I'm really trying to find out is where I can find the information
from the report that states that a:
"bona fide student, enrolled during the first 15 days of such semester,
is registered in the equivalent of three regular courses, is meeting the
physical education requirement, and has been in regular attendance 80
percent of the school time." can play interscholastic sports on the public
school team. I cannot find it in the NYS education laws anywhere. Maybe I'm
looking in all the wrong places.
I tried to email HSLDA but unless you're a member you can't email them.
Also, I've contacted NYS non-public school about this report but I've gotten
conflicting answers. Before I go to our superintendent regarding this I
would like to have the information from the NYS ed. laws myself. I've even
contacted New York State Public High School Athletic Assoc. but they haven't
replied yet.
Thanks again. Any help would be appreciated.
Kathryn Nelson
knelso2@...
Kathryn
SPECIAL REPORT
a division of Home School Legal Defense Association
November 9, 2001
State Laws Concerning Participation of Home Schooled Students in Public
School Activities
New York
An appellate court ruled against home schoolers who sought access to
public school interscholastic sports. Bradstreet v. Sobol, 650 N.Y.S.2d 402
(A.D. 3 Dept. 1996). The New York Commissioner of Education's regulations
pertaining to interscholastic athletic competitions, Section
135.7.C.(ii)(b)(2), requires that students in grades 9-12 must be a "bona
fide student, enrolled during the first 15 days of such semester, is
registered in the equivalent of three regular courses, is meeting the
physical education requirement, and has been in regular attendance 80
percent of the school time." to be eligible for interscholastic competition
in public school sports.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:34:19 -0400
From: "Daryl Cobranchi" <dcobranchi@...>
Subject: Re: Interscholastic sports?
Perhaps this is what you need?
http://www.psal.org/psalsports/misc/a-1-9.html
Daryl Cobranchi
From: [email protected]
Reply-To: [email protected]
Date: 29 Jul 2003 09:28:01 -0000
To: [email protected]
Subject: [HEM-Networking] Digest Number 1795
Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine:
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
I sent out an email over the weekend, but you all oveer looked the Federal legislation of homeschooling bill.
Within this list there are several letters addressing this issue. Helen Hegener's is a must read. If you don't have time today, read it tonight.
Denny Rehburg is our Rep and the persom to call, fax, email, etc...in MONTANA.
Barda
There are 12 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Two questions at the heart of the issue
From: "Denese Kolb" <DCOLB@...>
2. Re: RE: legislative discussion
From: "N.McV." <nmcvick@...>
3. Re: Two questions at the heart of the issue
From: jjnlt@...
4. Re: Two questions at the heart of the issue
From: Cindy DeBerge <cindy_deberge@...>
5. My response to HONDA
From: Helen Hegener <HEM-Editor@...>
6. Interscholastic sports?
From: "kathryn nelson" <knelso2@...>
7. Re: Interscholastic sports?
From: "Daryl Cobranchi" <dcobranchi@...>
8. Homeschoolers in Bowie, MD?
From: Stacey Zornes <smzornes@...>
9. Re: Two questions at the heart of the issue
From: "Alpenmaedl" <alpenmaedl@...>
10. Re: Living up to ones potential
From: "Edith Anne Burkhalter" <EdithAnne54@...>
11. Pittsburgh, southern Michigan, Columbus - Aug. 14-16
From: "shantinik" <shantinik@...>
12. Re: Pittsburgh, southern Michigan, Columbus - Aug. 14-16
From: "Edith Anne Burkhalter" <EdithAnne54@...>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:36:29 -0400
From: "Denese Kolb" <DCOLB@...>
Subject: Re: Two questions at the heart of the issue
My question is: what are the repercussions when public schooled kids become burdens on society because they weren't properly educated?
Cindy
My answer, look around you.
Denese
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine:
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
To unsubscribe, set list preferences, or read archives:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HEM-Networking
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:49:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: "N.McV." <nmcvick@...>
Subject: Re: RE: legislative discussion
Some of us are starting discussion on the local and
state level, and we are gearing up for action. NJHA is
taking a stand against this bill. We hope to kill it
now, while it's in committee.
Nancy McVicker
Member, Steering Committee
New Jersey Homeschool Association
--- Helen Hegener <HEM-Editor@...>
wrote:
> At 12:30 PM -0700 7/24/03, Bec wrote:__________________________________
> >Cindy the NHEN list is no longer a discussion list.
> For some reason
> >no one seems to want to talk about this issue much,
> our statement is
> >on our website!
>
> I don't think it's a matter of not wanting to talk
> about it so much
> as people don't understand what it means and *how*
> to talk about it.
> Faced with a multitude of distractions at the
> moment, I'm still
> working to get a good solid grasp of the situation
> myself.
>
> Helen
>
>
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 14:09:31 EDT
From: jjnlt@...
Subject: Re: Two questions at the heart of the issue
Elise writes:
<< This is the kind of thinking that is used to justify all manner of
restrictions and regulations. Until people get it that freedom only exists when we
_all_ have it, then no one is going to have it. >>
Bingo!
Blessings,
Joanne
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:24:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Cindy DeBerge <cindy_deberge@...>
Subject: Re: Two questions at the heart of the issue
My answer, look around you.
Denese
My point exactly.
Cindy
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 10:37:21 -0800
From: Helen Hegener <HEM-Editor@...>
Subject: My response to HONDA
There are many reasons to be concerned about the HONDA bill. Perhaps
first and foremost is the fact that this bill opens the door to
federal regulation of homeschooling and creates the potential for
additional legislation and increased regulation. Once passed, this
bill becomes law. And once it is law the agencies responsible for
enforcing compliance with the law will write regulations based on
their interpretations of it; those regulations will be written by
people who may or may not have a good understanding of homeschooling,
but they'll be regulations with the force of law behind them. The
potential for conflict and years of working to clarify intent is
tremendous.
The relationship between homeschoolers and the state differs from
state to state and is the result of many years of citizen involvement
with the legislative process. While some states still have difficult
situations, in many others years of hard work by homeschoolers would
stand to be undermined by this bill. In some states there are strong
support groups in place to act as watchdogs and oversee what might
happen as a result of this bill. But what will happen in those states
without cohesive homeschool support groups?
The claim in Sec. 2 that homeschooling is "an effective means for
young people to achieve success on standardized tests" is downright
foolish. What purpose could possibly be served by linking
homeschooling with standardized testing in federal legislation?
The fact is, this is a poorly written omnibus bill which messes with
multiple issues such as the Individuals with Disabilities Education
Act (IDEA), the Internal Revenue Code and federal tax issues, child
labor laws, the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA), a
federal scholarship program and more - but addresses them as they
specifically relate to homeschoolers. These are issues which - if
addressed at all - should be more broadly addressed, and should
guarantee equal rights and services for everyone rather than asking
for special favors specifically for homeschoolers. We do not need
these issues addressed in our name, because we do not need to become
a special interest group in the eyes of federal legislators.
But there's an even larger question to ask, and that is: Why the move
to strengthen the power of the federal government over what has
always been a state concern? Constitutionally, education is the
province of the states, and bills like this one force a conflict
between the federal government and state governments.
Whose long-range purposes are really being served with this bill?
Helen
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:28:34 -0400
From: "kathryn nelson" <knelso2@...>
Subject: Interscholastic sports?
Hello,
I'm not sure if I've posted this message before on this board so please
bare with me if I have.
We live in New York State and my sons are home schooled. The high school
varsity baseball coach is trying to recruit them for his team. As far as I
know they are not eligible to play on high school teams. However, I found
the information below on the Home School Legal Defense Association's website
and now I'm not sure if they're eligible or not. Can someone clear this up
for me?
What I'm really trying to find out is where I can find the information
from the report that states that a:
"bona fide student, enrolled during the first 15 days of such semester,
is registered in the equivalent of three regular courses, is meeting the
physical education requirement, and has been in regular attendance 80
percent of the school time." can play interscholastic sports on the public
school team. I cannot find it in the NYS education laws anywhere. Maybe I'm
looking in all the wrong places.
I tried to email HSLDA but unless you're a member you can't email them.
Also, I've contacted NYS non-public school about this report but I've gotten
conflicting answers. Before I go to our superintendent regarding this I
would like to have the information from the NYS ed. laws myself. I've even
contacted New York State Public High School Athletic Assoc. but they haven't
replied yet.
Thanks again. Any help would be appreciated.
Kathryn Nelson
knelso2@...
Kathryn
SPECIAL REPORT
a division of Home School Legal Defense Association
November 9, 2001
State Laws Concerning Participation of Home Schooled Students in Public
School Activities
New York
An appellate court ruled against home schoolers who sought access to
public school interscholastic sports. Bradstreet v. Sobol, 650 N.Y.S.2d 402
(A.D. 3 Dept. 1996). The New York Commissioner of Education's regulations
pertaining to interscholastic athletic competitions, Section
135.7.C.(ii)(b)(2), requires that students in grades 9-12 must be a "bona
fide student, enrolled during the first 15 days of such semester, is
registered in the equivalent of three regular courses, is meeting the
physical education requirement, and has been in regular attendance 80
percent of the school time." to be eligible for interscholastic competition
in public school sports.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:34:19 -0400
From: "Daryl Cobranchi" <dcobranchi@...>
Subject: Re: Interscholastic sports?
Perhaps this is what you need?
http://www.psal.org/psalsports/misc/a-1-9.html
Daryl Cobranchi
----- Original Message -----
From: "kathryn nelson" <knelso2@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 5:28 PM
Subject: [HEM-Networking] Interscholastic sports?
> Hello,
>
> I'm not sure if I've posted this message before on this board so please
> bare with me if I have.
>
> We live in New York State and my sons are home schooled. The high
school
> varsity baseball coach is trying to recruit them for his team. As far as I
> know they are not eligible to play on high school teams. However, I found
> the information below on the Home School Legal Defense Association's
website
> and now I'm not sure if they're eligible or not. Can someone clear this up
> for me?
>
>
> What I'm really trying to find out is where I can find the information
> from the report that states that a:
> "bona fide student, enrolled during the first 15 days of such semester,
> is registered in the equivalent of three regular courses, is meeting the
> physical education requirement, and has been in regular attendance 80
> percent of the school time." can play interscholastic sports on the public
> school team. I cannot find it in the NYS education laws anywhere. Maybe
I'm
> looking in all the wrong places.
>
> I tried to email HSLDA but unless you're a member you can't email them.
> Also, I've contacted NYS non-public school about this report but I've
gotten
> conflicting answers. Before I go to our superintendent regarding this I
> would like to have the information from the NYS ed. laws myself. I've even
> contacted New York State Public High School Athletic Assoc. but they
haven't
> replied yet.
>
> Thanks again. Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Kathryn Nelson
> knelso2@...
>
>
>
>
>
> Kathryn
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPECIAL REPORT
>
>
>
>
> a division of Home School Legal Defense Association
> November 9, 2001
>
>
>
> State Laws Concerning Participation of Home Schooled Students in Public
> School Activities
>
> New York
>
>
> An appellate court ruled against home schoolers who sought access to
> public school interscholastic sports. Bradstreet v. Sobol, 650 N.Y.S.2d
402
> (A.D. 3 Dept. 1996). The New York Commissioner of Education's regulations
> pertaining to interscholastic athletic competitions, Section
> 135.7.C.(ii)(b)(2), requires that students in grades 9-12 must be a "bona
> fide student, enrolled during the first 15 days of such semester, is
> registered in the equivalent of three regular courses, is meeting the
> physical education requirement, and has been in regular attendance 80
> percent of the school time." to be eligible for interscholastic
competition
> in public school sports.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Another great list sponsored by Home Education Magazine:
> http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
>
> To unsubscribe, set list preferences, or read archives:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HEM-Networking
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:17:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stacey Zornes <smzornes@...>
Subject: Homeschoolers in Bowie, MD?
Hi everyone,
I know I have been pretty quiet on this list so let me
re-introduce myself. I am a hs mom of 3. I've been
homeschooling over a year, almost two and using the
Calvert curriculum. I am concerned about my kids
having friends besides their brothers and sister. I
have been having a hard time finding other
homeschoolers in the area. I know "socialization" is
always in the backs of homeschoolers' minds, but it
can be a real fear for some, especially the not very
outgoing people.
I was wondering if there are any other homeschoolers
in Bowie? I was also wondering if there are any
special homeschooling days at the ice rink, gym, etc.
If not, do you want to try and start one?
In the fall, when school goes back in session, I was
thinking on starting up a Park day, get-together day,
etc. Let me know if anyone is interested. You can
email me privately or on list if you would like.
If you have nay other ideas, let me know.
=====
Stacey
HS Mom of three : 6, 4 and 2
Tell me and I'll forget.
Show me, and I may not remember.
Involve me, and I'll understand.
Author unknown
__________________________________
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Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 19:19:18 -0500
From: "Alpenmaedl" <alpenmaedl@...>
Subject: Re: Two questions at the heart of the issue
>>>http://www.ecs.org/html/IssueSection.asp?issueid=72
Two questions at the heart of the issue are: First, how much
authority should the government have over what some consider a
private issue? And second, who has the ultimate responsibility for
ensuring home-schooled students meet their potential?
<snip>
My question: Is this a common attitude or an anomaly amongst
homeschoolers?<<<<
I've got to type and run but I wanted to say that I don't think government
should have the final word.
T.J.
"It is better to tolerate that rare instance of a parent's refusing to let
his child be educated, than to shock the common feelings by a forcible
transportation and education of the infant against the will of his father."
http://www.schoolreport.com/schoolreport/articles/thomas_jefferson_6_00.htm#
7
And, since when is it anyone's responsibility to ensure anyone meets his or
her 'potential?' That word plagued me throughout my school 'career' because
I never measured up to it. From whatever test I was given in 1st grade
until I got the diploma I was hounded by people wanting me to work up to my
wretched potential (the anomaly was poor grades contrasted against excellent
standardized test scores). I didn't make 'them' happy and 'they' certainly
didn't make me happy. Enforced meeting of a "potential?" Pah!
Valerie Moon
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 17:42:36 -0700
From: "Edith Anne Burkhalter" <EdithAnne54@...>
Subject: Re: Living up to ones potential
I've alaways hated that phrase -- living up to your potential -- along with
its comanion word -- underachiever. These are some of the most destructive
and abusive phrases used on children -- and they can have a lifelong impact!
I was labeled an underachiever almost as soon as I started school. I
constantly heard that I was not living up to my potential, that my test
scores indicated that I should be working a year ort two above grade level.
None of my teachers was bright enough to realize that I was a year younger
than all my classmates -- I started school when I was 4 -- and therefore
automatically working above grade level. My fourth grade teacher gave me
C's on all my math papers -- I got all the problems correct but she said I
was able to do sixth grade work so it wasn't fair to give me the same grade
as the other kids in the class -- for the same work. I was -- of course --
never given the opportunity to do 6th grade work that year -- but...... An
honors math teacher at the highschool in our neighborhood -- we know him
well -- uses the same book and assignments for his honors classes as for his
regular classes -- but gives the honors students one letter grade lower --
hurting their chances to get into college. It all just drives me crazy.
Edie
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 04:19:50 -0000
From: "shantinik" <shantinik@...>
Subject: Pittsburgh, southern Michigan, Columbus - Aug. 14-16
So I'm doing a mini-speaking tour Aug. 14-16th -- if you come to hear
me, be sure to tell me you are on this list! (Then I'll put your face
with your name, though the way I am these days, I'm likely then to
forget your name and remember your face -- ah, such is life!)
Oh, the announcement....
David Albert Mini-Speaking Tour ? August 14-16
David Albert, author of Homeschooling and the Voyage of Self-Discovery
and columnist for Home Education Magazine, will be speaking in
Pittsburgh, PA, southern Michigan, and Columbus, Ohio August 14-16.
Pittsburgh, PA: August 14th, talks at 3:30 and 7:00 ? contact Michelle
Yoder at ayoder@... ,
Southern Michigan: August 15th, talks at 3:30 and 7:00 ? contact Juli
Ryner at njpjt@... for details
Columbus, Ohio: August 16th, talks at 3:00 and 7:00 ? contact Diane
Hopkins at creatingadream@... or call (614) 891-4780.
You can also contact David directly through his website at
www.skylarksings.com or e-mail shantinik@...
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 21:34:27 -0700
From: "Edith Anne Burkhalter" <EdithAnne54@...>
Subject: Re: Pittsburgh, southern Michigan, Columbus - Aug. 14-16
Do you know what town in southern Michigan?
Edie
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