What a joke!
beetnikchick
All of you have been hood-winked!
Free speech my ass. Many posts are NOT making it through to the list
unless they are in agreement with the governing clique. That's a damn
shame that they all stick together and the moderator only allows
posts that make them look good. What a joke & damn pathetic I might
add, but not very honest! Ha! I guess the reason that only a few
people post is because no one else is allowed!
Rue, get a life & stop tattling. It's so unattractive.
Read on:
In a message dated 7/22/2003 1:41:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
elizabethogi@... writes:
Sandra, I just read your articles elsewhere on the web and was very
impressed with what you wrote, but when I saw your posts here, the
hostility shocked me.
As the old addage goes, " you catch more bees with honey than
vinegar".
(anyway, something like that...) I think anyone is probably going to
get
defensive if attacked, although Oom seemed to be responding without
attacking back. I also think picking apart posts really takes things
out
of context and leads to unintended nastiness.
I totally agree that spanking is wrong. I got ONE "swat" with a
paddle
as punishment in Jr. High School from the principal( I hope that this
is
outlawed now--it was punishment for tardiness) and I'm still mad at
that
man today, twenty years on! It wasn't the pain--although it did
hurt--but the utter humiliation and rage I felt towards him
afterwards.
I used to like him, too-- but never again.
As I learned about myself when I first started attending La Leche
meetings (breastfeeding group), and I believe this to be true of most
of
us, is that you do not always really Hear what is being said until
you
are ready to hear it. There may come a time when someone who spanks
(or
occasionally slaps) is ready to "hear " what opponents say against
it.
Then he or she will remember those gentle voices and , I hope , stop.
E.
E. I wanted to add that I too have read everything I can find that
Sandra has written on the web. I thought how wonderful, what a
gentle caring person. THEN I came here, my thoughts on her
personally are quite different after "experiencing" her "in person"
so to speak.
I think she does a lot of good things with her children and raised
them remarkably by the evidence of her writings but it sure changed
my mind about her as a person.
I know people here who've met her rave about her kindness and
gentleness. I haven't seen it. I HAVE seen lots of rude, lots of
name calling, lots of taking things out of context and then she
editorializes it and tells YOU what you wrote or were thinking and
then every one of course (well MOST everyone) then reads what Sandra
wrote as the FACTS and that's how life goes.
So, yet again Sandra wonders why others stay if we dislike the list
so much. Here's the answer from my standpoint. I don't dislike the
list. I dislike Sandra, she's a small part of the list. She's rude
when she need not be, she's short and hateful often as well,
especially to new people. To some she's not.
I stay because there are decent kind people who are willing to put
out a hand to help someone along the path of this unschooling
journey. There is always much to learn and hearing the experience of
those who've gone before is helpful.
I personally, am not here because of Sandra, but in SPITE of her at
times. If I were only here to complain about how someone posts or
treats others then I would probably have left a long time ago. If I
only wanted to take advantage of Sandra's wisdom, I could just read
her articles over and over online for free. If I had a problem I
could probably find something she's written or linked to it online.
The nastiness is just a small part of the list it's always (again let
me clarify ALMOST always) a new person finding their way and the same
people attacking and then saying they never attacked, were never
rude, etc. Seems like it's a cycle. When one stops posting in
defense of the non attack (or gets moderated forever) then a new
person fills the slot very quickly as the new, never will be right,
wickedly wrong, stop posting or pay the price candidate.
I wasn't the first, and I wasn't the last and I'm sure this last
attack will not be the last either.
It was hard for me to accept others being treated like this, but it's
going to happen. No one can stop it. It will only cause the poster
to leave or get moderated or just stop posting all together, those
are the options once you've raised the ire of certain people here.
It won't change, no matter how much any of us suggest, cajole, offer,
demand, insinuate or plead. In a way it's bullying at it's finest
isn't it? The one part doesn't see any bullying at all, others feel
the lumps and bruises for days and fade back into the background
where they've been sent.
Except we are adults, free to leave anytime to avoid the bullying but
in leaving we might miss something very important that helps us
achieve our goals of raising our children in the best unschooling way
possible.
So we make a choice, stay and learn, grit our teeth at times or just
leave. It's sad but that's the way it is, it unfortunately is simply
not going to change it seems. If one does not see a problem their
will be no fix. Just as was posted that Oom saw no problem with
smacking her child in such a situation so she couldn't be regretful
nor change, it goes both ways. If no one "sees" it as a problem and
they very vehemently deny there is one, then it will never change.
glena
Free speech my ass. Many posts are NOT making it through to the list
unless they are in agreement with the governing clique. That's a damn
shame that they all stick together and the moderator only allows
posts that make them look good. What a joke & damn pathetic I might
add, but not very honest! Ha! I guess the reason that only a few
people post is because no one else is allowed!
Rue, get a life & stop tattling. It's so unattractive.
Read on:
In a message dated 7/22/2003 1:41:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
elizabethogi@... writes:
Sandra, I just read your articles elsewhere on the web and was very
impressed with what you wrote, but when I saw your posts here, the
hostility shocked me.
As the old addage goes, " you catch more bees with honey than
vinegar".
(anyway, something like that...) I think anyone is probably going to
get
defensive if attacked, although Oom seemed to be responding without
attacking back. I also think picking apart posts really takes things
out
of context and leads to unintended nastiness.
I totally agree that spanking is wrong. I got ONE "swat" with a
paddle
as punishment in Jr. High School from the principal( I hope that this
is
outlawed now--it was punishment for tardiness) and I'm still mad at
that
man today, twenty years on! It wasn't the pain--although it did
hurt--but the utter humiliation and rage I felt towards him
afterwards.
I used to like him, too-- but never again.
As I learned about myself when I first started attending La Leche
meetings (breastfeeding group), and I believe this to be true of most
of
us, is that you do not always really Hear what is being said until
you
are ready to hear it. There may come a time when someone who spanks
(or
occasionally slaps) is ready to "hear " what opponents say against
it.
Then he or she will remember those gentle voices and , I hope , stop.
E.
E. I wanted to add that I too have read everything I can find that
Sandra has written on the web. I thought how wonderful, what a
gentle caring person. THEN I came here, my thoughts on her
personally are quite different after "experiencing" her "in person"
so to speak.
I think she does a lot of good things with her children and raised
them remarkably by the evidence of her writings but it sure changed
my mind about her as a person.
I know people here who've met her rave about her kindness and
gentleness. I haven't seen it. I HAVE seen lots of rude, lots of
name calling, lots of taking things out of context and then she
editorializes it and tells YOU what you wrote or were thinking and
then every one of course (well MOST everyone) then reads what Sandra
wrote as the FACTS and that's how life goes.
So, yet again Sandra wonders why others stay if we dislike the list
so much. Here's the answer from my standpoint. I don't dislike the
list. I dislike Sandra, she's a small part of the list. She's rude
when she need not be, she's short and hateful often as well,
especially to new people. To some she's not.
I stay because there are decent kind people who are willing to put
out a hand to help someone along the path of this unschooling
journey. There is always much to learn and hearing the experience of
those who've gone before is helpful.
I personally, am not here because of Sandra, but in SPITE of her at
times. If I were only here to complain about how someone posts or
treats others then I would probably have left a long time ago. If I
only wanted to take advantage of Sandra's wisdom, I could just read
her articles over and over online for free. If I had a problem I
could probably find something she's written or linked to it online.
The nastiness is just a small part of the list it's always (again let
me clarify ALMOST always) a new person finding their way and the same
people attacking and then saying they never attacked, were never
rude, etc. Seems like it's a cycle. When one stops posting in
defense of the non attack (or gets moderated forever) then a new
person fills the slot very quickly as the new, never will be right,
wickedly wrong, stop posting or pay the price candidate.
I wasn't the first, and I wasn't the last and I'm sure this last
attack will not be the last either.
It was hard for me to accept others being treated like this, but it's
going to happen. No one can stop it. It will only cause the poster
to leave or get moderated or just stop posting all together, those
are the options once you've raised the ire of certain people here.
It won't change, no matter how much any of us suggest, cajole, offer,
demand, insinuate or plead. In a way it's bullying at it's finest
isn't it? The one part doesn't see any bullying at all, others feel
the lumps and bruises for days and fade back into the background
where they've been sent.
Except we are adults, free to leave anytime to avoid the bullying but
in leaving we might miss something very important that helps us
achieve our goals of raising our children in the best unschooling way
possible.
So we make a choice, stay and learn, grit our teeth at times or just
leave. It's sad but that's the way it is, it unfortunately is simply
not going to change it seems. If one does not see a problem their
will be no fix. Just as was posted that Oom saw no problem with
smacking her child in such a situation so she couldn't be regretful
nor change, it goes both ways. If no one "sees" it as a problem and
they very vehemently deny there is one, then it will never change.
glena
[email protected]
Its not a few. I have AOL 9.0 and it shows a total of anyone that has
posted. I have a list of 74 and that's just people that have AOL or AIM that posted
in the past couple weeks.
The cool thing is you can be silenced if you are a pain in the ass!
Laura D
<<<<In a message dated 7/22/2003 10:18:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
beetnikchick@... writes:
All of you have been hood-winked!
Free speech my ass. Many posts are NOT making it through to the list
unless they are in agreement with the governing clique. That's a damn
shame that they all stick together and the moderator only allows
posts that make them look good. What a joke & damn pathetic I might
add, but not very honest! Ha! I guess the reason that only a few
people post is because no one else is allowed!>>>>>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
posted. I have a list of 74 and that's just people that have AOL or AIM that posted
in the past couple weeks.
The cool thing is you can be silenced if you are a pain in the ass!
Laura D
<<<<In a message dated 7/22/2003 10:18:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
beetnikchick@... writes:
All of you have been hood-winked!
Free speech my ass. Many posts are NOT making it through to the list
unless they are in agreement with the governing clique. That's a damn
shame that they all stick together and the moderator only allows
posts that make them look good. What a joke & damn pathetic I might
add, but not very honest! Ha! I guess the reason that only a few
people post is because no one else is allowed!>>>>>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 7/22/03 10:16 PM, beetnikchick at beetnikchick@... wrote:
missing and one from you, Glena. And now you've gotten yours on the list.
The other 3 you wanted to post were just cluelessly hurtful of people who
aren't on anyone's black list. It was more to save you from looking bad and
saving some unnecessary hurt.
What is the purpose here? Has the unschooling and parenting advice been so
bad that we've caused you to hurt your children and made your lives so much
worse than they were before you joined that people want to wreck the list?
Joyce
Unschooling-Discussion moderator
> Many posts are NOT making it through to the listIt was one post from Jeva who also wanted to point out that "many" posts are
> unless they are in agreement with the governing clique.
missing and one from you, Glena. And now you've gotten yours on the list.
The other 3 you wanted to post were just cluelessly hurtful of people who
aren't on anyone's black list. It was more to save you from looking bad and
saving some unnecessary hurt.
What is the purpose here? Has the unschooling and parenting advice been so
bad that we've caused you to hurt your children and made your lives so much
worse than they were before you joined that people want to wreck the list?
Joyce
Unschooling-Discussion moderator
Fetteroll
on 7/22/03 11:00 PM, Fetteroll at fetteroll@... wrote:
That post of Glena's was posted by a driveby poster (Beetnikchick) that
Glena shared privately with her.
It's not a joke. It's just very very sad. I hope she's apologized to you.
Joyce
Unschooling-Discussion moderator
> It was one post from Jeva who also wanted to point out that "many" posts areI want to apologize to Glena.
> missing and one from you, Glena. And now you've gotten yours on the list.
That post of Glena's was posted by a driveby poster (Beetnikchick) that
Glena shared privately with her.
It's not a joke. It's just very very sad. I hope she's apologized to you.
Joyce
Unschooling-Discussion moderator
Betsy
**So, yet again Sandra wonders why others stay if we dislike the list
so much. Here's the answer from my standpoint. I don't dislike the
list. I dislike Sandra, she's a small part of the list. She's rude
when she need not be, she's short and hateful often as well,
especially to new people. To some she's not. **
You know, she can't MAKE you read her posts. You are probably smart
enough to screen out emails from her or use your delete key or scroll
bar to move past them without stopping.
You started off your post with some strong words about free speech, but
now I'm getting the idea that you'd prefer only "free polite unassertive speech".
Hope you find it somewhere.
Betsy
so much. Here's the answer from my standpoint. I don't dislike the
list. I dislike Sandra, she's a small part of the list. She's rude
when she need not be, she's short and hateful often as well,
especially to new people. To some she's not. **
You know, she can't MAKE you read her posts. You are probably smart
enough to screen out emails from her or use your delete key or scroll
bar to move past them without stopping.
You started off your post with some strong words about free speech, but
now I'm getting the idea that you'd prefer only "free polite unassertive speech".
Hope you find it somewhere.
Betsy
Betsy
**I stay because there are decent kind people who are willing to put
out a hand to help someone along the path of this unschooling
journey.**
Many of the people you put in the "decent kind" category learned much of
what they know about unschooling from Sandra.
Think about that for a minute.
Betsy
out a hand to help someone along the path of this unschooling
journey.**
Many of the people you put in the "decent kind" category learned much of
what they know about unschooling from Sandra.
Think about that for a minute.
Betsy
Bill and Diane
How did THIS get here? Moderator!
:-) Diane
:-) Diane
>All of you have been hood-winked!
>
>Free speech my ass. Many posts are NOT making it through to the list
>unless they are in agreement with the governing clique. That's a damn
>shame that they all stick together and the moderator only allows
>posts that make them look good. What a joke & damn pathetic I might
>add, but not very honest! Ha! I guess the reason that only a few
>people post is because no one else is allowed!
>