[email protected]

ecsamhill@... writes:
> At 9 my son is an
> extremely nice person who is very easy to live with. He's delightful.
>
> Betsy

My son is 9, too.

Maybe you, and others on the list can help me out.

There's something that just happened here that is a good example of an issue
that I have been dealing with lately, and I need some advice.

When my son and his friend came up to get his walkie talkies, they were here
for a while, and went outside. When I went to the kitchen I noticed the back
door was open. Now, earlier, when they came in, I mentioned to them to please
close the door, the air conditioning was on, he said it was already closed,
no problem.

But when they left, I guess Alex went first, and his friend didn't close the
door behind him. I went outside and told Alex what had happened. He told me
he was sorry, that the cats could have gotten outside. ( we have two indoor
cats, I don't really care that much about the ac, but I was upset about the cats
possibly getting out, and so was he). I asked him if he could please leave
the house last to make sure the door gets closed, he said sure.

Now, that's all fine and good. And maybe I'm expecting too much at his age,
or maybe this will develop as he gets older, but things like this happen all
the time, and he feels sorry afterwards, but it doesn't *seem* to make him any
more aware *next time* he makes a choice, even in a similar situation. He
just does whatever occurs to him at the time, still very impulsive.

Is it too early, age wise, maturity wise, for me to expect him to look down
the line a few choices later and see where he could possibly get in trouble? Is
that kind of abstract thought too ambitious a desire for him?

I wonder if that is something that *I think* he should do, but not a
reasonable thing to expect from him. Now, I tend to be a control freak, I am aware of
it, is this my controlling nature and I'm putting it onto him?

He's becoming so independent, so fast, and he just doesn't have the life
experience yet to make good decisions, and he's still at the point where he is
learning from his mistakes, instead of what I think he should be starting on,
which is to make better, more thought out decisions that help him avoid those
mistakes in the first place.

Maybe, like Sandra said earlier, I should be journaling about these things
instead of writing to the list, but, I have been considering this for a while,
and I am stuck, I need perspective. And I trust you guys to give me the
straight shit. *grin*

What kinds of things can I do, not coercive, but to help him, make better
decisions on his own. He feels badly after things like this, and I don't think
that guilt is helping him make better decisions. I want to help him, but it's
almost like I don't trust myself to do a good job helping him with this, that
some of the guilt he feels is my fault for not helping him enough.

*sigh*

~Aimee


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fetteroll

on 7/21/03 4:33 PM, AimeeL73@... at AimeeL73@... wrote:

> Is it too early, age wise, maturity wise, for me to expect him to look down
> the line a few choices later and see where he could possibly get in trouble?
> Is that kind of abstract thought too ambitious a desire for him?

Yes. I honestly don't think it's something he can be conscious of unless
there were some huge reason that would make it more important than what is
important to his 9 yo self.

I've told this story before so those who've heard it can roll their eyes and
move on ;-)

We have bright hallway and a dark bathroom so even in the day it's natural
to turn on the light. But when coming out the bright hallway gives no clue
the light behind you is still on. I've left it on dozens of times even
though I'm pretty contientious about turning off lights.

How could the rest of the family make me turn it off every time I leave the
bathroom? Should the yell at me? Should they punish me? Should they shame
me? Should they sit me down and have a discussion with me?

I don't see a solution that would make me be more aware. I do turn it off
later, as do others, when they see it on.

What about some automatic closer for the door? If money's tight, what about
designing something with a weight and pulley?

Joyce

Mary

From: <AimeeL73@...>

<< Is it too early, age wise, maturity wise, for me to expect him to look
down
the line a few choices later and see where he could possibly get in
trouble? Is
that kind of abstract thought too ambitious a desire for him?

I wonder if that is something that *I think* he should do, but not a
reasonable thing to expect from him. Now, I tend to be a control freak, I
am aware of
it, is this my controlling nature and I'm putting it onto him?>>


I have no great answers that will solve the *problem* other to say I don't
think it's a big deal. He doesn't seem to be forgetting things that would
really cause harm to him or someone else. I do understand about the cats
though as we have 2 indoor only ones here also. Maybe a bell on the door
would remind him as he's opening it, and it makes noise that it needs to be
closed. Would be easier than even a hinge.

As far as forgetting though, just the fact that he seems to care later makes
it just that he forgets. With kids, and some adults as well, they can just
have so much on their minds, or one very important thing, that they bipass
everything else.

My 2 middle kids are 7 and 8. They both play chess quite well, so the
thinking ahead is very much there. But they forget things a lot too. It's
just not important to them. I asked Joseph to get me something yesterday. I
gave him specific instructions as to where it was in my purse. He came back
and said it wasn't there. I went and looked and it was right where I said it
was. He had everything right but the inside of the purse part, he looked on
the outside of it. He got most of the imformation right but didn't quite
keep all the parts intact. It wasn't real important to him. He was doing me
a favor and had all the intentions of getting it done, just didn't work out
that way. So I do just what my husband does, or I do for him when one of us
forgets. Sometimes a reminder and most times it just gets done by one of us.
It does get better as they get older and hang onto non important thoughts
better. The one thing I do find works for my children, when something is
important to me, is to have them look at me while I'm asking for the favor.
Someimes just asking over the kitchen counter isn't enough. They hear me but
really aren't listening!

Mary B

[email protected]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:33:09 EDT AimeeL73@... writes:
> Is it too early, age wise, maturity wise, for me to expect him to look
down
> the line a few choices later and see where he could possibly get in
trouble? Is
> that kind of abstract thought too ambitious a desire for him?

Rain is a pretty darn wonderful 10 yr old, mature for her age in many
ways, helpful, responsible... but this is exactly the kind of thing she
does, and it's exactly what gets under my skin. When I lose it with her
(and I do, rarely, but sometimes I yell) it's generally about something
that she did without thinking - and usually I'm yelling something like,
"Think! Why don't you *think* before you do things?!?". It does seem odd,
that she can think through these really long intricate strategies for
games and pretending and such, but she can't remember to put away her
laundry before the cat lies on it and sheds and dumps it onto the floor
where it gets dirty, and then she puts it back in the dirty laundry
hamper... or to not leave sugary stuff in her room until the ants invade.
Stuff like that... I'm not sure it has to do with lack of life
experience, for Rain anyway. If she thought it through she'd figure out
why what she was doing wasn't a good idea, but she doesn't think to do
that. Her mind is on other things...

What I try to do (and I don't think yelling is a good thing to do, and I
do apologize when I do it) is to remember these things myself, and to try
to set up the situation so she will make the better choice. When I give
her laundry to put away I ask if she can put it away right then, and if
not I keep it in the basket. If I see her going off with a snack I try to
ask her a few hours later if all the dishes are out of her room. (This
would all be much easier if she would actually permit me to enter her
room, but she won't, usually). It does seem better now than when she was
8 or 9.

And I'm one of those who didn't have a real stellar childhood, and this
sort of forgetting was not dealt with very kindly (I remember being made
to drink from the toilet once because I forgot to flush), so it hasn't
been easy. Rain may struggle not to yell at her kids when she has them,
but I believe that she won't have the same struggles not to hit them.

Dar

Lisa M. Cottrell Bentley

A sign on the door that says "Please close me on your way out"? Gentle, non
judgemental reminders are the only suggestion that I can think of. I do
this with my daughters and husband about things that I know that they want
to remember, and they to me (we all seem to forget different things, so we
try to complement each other). My DH also has a PDA to help remind him. I
also enlist my oldest daughter's help in helping me remember things (like
what to buy at the grocery store and such).

I can't wait to hear the suggestions.
-Lisa in AZ

Deborah Lewis

***Is it too early, age wise, maturity wise, for me to expect him to look
down
the line a few choices later and see where he could possibly get in
trouble?***

Maybe. <g>

Do you have littler kids too? Sometimes when a mom has little kids and
looks at that nine year old he looks really big and ready for
responsibility.

Sometimes even when there are no younger kids it's hard to remember that
bright, witty, cleaver person is "only" nine, and nine is still so young.

He'll get there. Right now the running commentary in his head isn't
about taking care of things around the house and meeting other peoples
needs and being responsible. Right now it's just about nine year old
stuff.

I think it's pretty cool that kids can be kids and not have bigger
worries that household or family stuff might suffer if he's not on top of
things. I think it's a credit to his parents that he's still idealistic
at nine and taking for granted his parents are managing things he doesn't
need to worry about.

We had sick and dying people in our house when Dylan was eight and nine.
He became very responsible because he saw every minute of every day how
many important things needed to be done. If I could erase that I would,
and give him back his eight year old self before all the big reality of
life hit him.

***What kinds of things can I do, not coercive, but to help him, make
better
decisions on his own. ***

Just love him and think about how young nine really is. Patient
reminders and help about important things will do wonders. Thinking how
cool it would be to be nine again and not have all that responsibility
about family members and critters and laundry and bills might stir some
sweet feelings in you when you're most frustrated at being the one who
has to remember everything for everyone. <g>

Deb L

Pamela Sorooshian

Chit-chat about why things happened the way the did. Predict in advance
how things will turn out and then talk about why your prediction was
accurate or not.

There is a fun game to play that sort of emphasizes thinking ahead -
you can do it as teams as a sort of party game or just as individuals
just to play around.

Each person (team) writes each step involved in making a peanut butter
sandwich (or some other process - make up different ones). Write them
sequentially, one step at a time, and try to write every single thing
down that has to be done. Then another person or team gets up with some
supplies (preset so that everybody knew in advance what the supplies
were and where they were, etc.) and follows the directions as the first
team reads them off - but just one step at a time. So - if you said:
"Dip the knife into the peanut butter," you'd better have first said,
"Open the drawer," "Take the knife from the drawer," and "Open the
cupboard," "Take the peanut butter from the cupboard," and "Open the
jar of peanut butter," because if you didn't already say all those
things, its going to be pretty hard to dip a nonexistent knife (since
you didn't get it from the drawer into an invisible and unopened jar of
peanut butter." Laugh at how hard it is to think of everything - have
fun. Make allowances, don't be so strict that it isn't fun - as soon as
they realize they've left out a critical step and what the consequences
are - go ahead and let them fill in the needed steps so they can move
on. The point is to have fun and, on the side, there is a certain
amount of focus on planning ahead <G>.

-pam


On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 04:27 PM, Deborah Lewis wrote:

> ***What kinds of things can I do, not coercive, but to help him, make
> better
> decisions on his own. ***

Joylyn

freeform@... wrote:

> Rain is a pretty darn wonderful 10 yr old,

Rain cannot be 10, she simply cannot. I've known her for what, almost 8
years? Amazing.

> mature for her age in many
> ways, helpful, responsible... but this is exactly the kind of thing she
> does, and it's exactly what gets under my skin. When I lose it with her
> (and I do, rarely, but sometimes I yell)

I have to say that Dar rarely yells. I know a bit about her childhood
and it was, well not good is an understatement. I am constantly amazed
by Dar's parenting ability and I aspire to be more like her.

Joylyn