Backstrom kelli

I think that a lot of girls grow up up faster is social expectation, not biology. I know I didnt want to grow up as fast as magazines and media wanted me to. Kelli

"treegoddess@..." <treegoddess@...> wrote:OomYaaqub@... wrote:

>I'm sure you raised her in a way that maximized her potential, but she is also a GIRL, and whether it is sexist to admit this or not, girls do mature much more quickly than boys.
>

That's a bunch of malarky. All girls do not mature more quickly than
all boys. And what exactly are you "admitting" to? Seems a strange
choice of wording.

I'm feeling a little quesy about how down you are on BOYS and how slow,
spazzy, mean, etc. they are concidering that your children are male.
Don't you think that your preconceived expections of their behavior
and/or capabilities are helping to shape their outcome? You're not
doing right by them.

I encourage you to be their refuge from the outside world -- help them
feel loved, safe, protected, and worthy. What sort of men are your sons
going to become if they know that their Mama thinks they are "less than"?

Peace,

TreeGoddess


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[email protected]

In a message dated 7/20/2003 11:27:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,
kellibac@... writes:

> All girls do not mature more quickly than
> all boys. And what exactly are you "admitting" to? Seems a strange
> choice of wording.
>
> I'm feeling a little quesy about how down you are on BOYS and how slow,
> spazzy, mean, etc. they are concidering that your children are male.
>

I love boys. I am not down on them at all, I accept their right to be
different. There is nothing wrong with the way my sons are. Have you read the
excellent book "The War Against Boys" by Christina Sommers? The whole point is
that today the whole society, especially the schools, expects boys to act like
girls and labels them as hyperactive, LD, etc., when they do not. One of my
kids was labelled and the other was at risk of being labelled just because, at
the age of six, he still couldn't print neatly! I took my kids out of school
and they've thrived, precisely because I accept them as they are. I let them
be active as much as they need to be instead of relying on a 15 minute
"recess." And they're doing great.


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[email protected]

In a message dated 7-20-2003 2:06:38 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
OomYaaqub@... writes:

> I let them
> be active as much as they need to be

Unless it happens to be when it's not convenient to you, then you smack 'em
... What exactly are you teaching them??

I'm being a smartalec because I've been down that path. Life with my husband
was certainly better balanced than it was after he died. Not because my kids
were any different, because *I* was different without my main support person.
Yes, I did swat my boy, for lack of other resources and because of the
pressure of my *smack-o-matic* family members. They were not around, however, for
the incredible backlash that occurred when the smack was over and the trust
was gone. If Hayden was incorrigible and needed a swat in the first place, his
behavior *after* the swat needed killin!!! It was a cycle I could not and
will not continue. I've busted my hump to earn back the trust of my baby, and I
doubt it will ever be like it was before. What *I* have to do, as the adult
and the only remaining parent, is to decide what is *REALLY* important to
instill in my children. The fact that *mom will hit you if the car don't* is not
high on my list. The fact that mom gets freaked out and doesn't know the right
thing to do all the time is okay. The big thing I really really really want
my kids to know in their hearts is "Mommy is the safest place in the whole
wide world" ~ they cannot know that, if mommy hits them -period-

(the lack of daddy mentioned here does not mean he (hypothetic) is not
considered, he is just not present in our life at the moment <beg>)

diana,
The wackiest widow westriver...
“Relationships are a prerequisite for producing results beyond ourselves.
They expand our imaginations to infinite possibilities that cannot exist in a
life of isolation." --Brian Koslow


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[email protected]

In a message dated 7/20/2003 4:27:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
HaHaMommy@... writes:

>
> Unless it happens to be when it's not convenient to you, then you smack 'em
> ... What exactly are you teaching them??

For heavens sakes, did you read ANY of my posts? I said I gave my child one
swat, in an emergency situation, when he was THREE! It did the trick. I
still had to hold his hand on the street for years to come, but he stopped pulling
violently out of my hand, from then on. My kids, age 6 and 12, are now way
too old to spank, by my criteria anyway. I think it's a bit unfair to compare
that to "smacking kids whenever they do something inconvenient."


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Kimberly

<<For heavens sakes, did you read ANY of my posts? I said I gave my
child one swat, in an emergency situation, when he was THREE! It did
the trick.>.


I think everyone heard that but you also said this in one of your
posts:


<<I do NOT agree with you as far as saying "never spank" and I
never will.>>


Kim

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/20/2003 4:38:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
OomYaaqub@... writes:


> For heavens sakes, did you read ANY of my posts? I said I gave my child
> one
> swat, in an emergency situation, when he was THREE! It did the trick. I
> still had to hold his hand on the street for years to come, but he stopped
> pulling
> violently out of my hand, from then on. My kids, age 6 and 12, are now way
> too old to spank, by my criteria anyway. I think it's a bit unfair to
> compare
> that to "smacking kids whenever they do something inconvenient."

You had plenty of warnings about this on this list.

You will NOT get agreement from people here. It's a "spank-free zone".

One smack, no matter how old---or YOUNG---the child, will NOT illicit
compassion here. Have you not read ANYONES' posts???

We don't CARE that you think it's just fine and dandy. The consensus here is
that it's WRONG.

You're new here, and obviously have not read the intro here---which is to
read a while before posting.

~Kelly



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Tia Leschke

> For heavens sakes, did you read ANY of my posts? I said I gave my child
one
> swat, in an emergency situation, when he was THREE! It did the trick. I
> still had to hold his hand on the street for years to come, but he stopped
pulling
> violently out of my hand, from then on. My kids, age 6 and 12, are now
way
> too old to spank, by my criteria anyway. I think it's a bit unfair to
compare
> that to "smacking kids whenever they do something inconvenient."

All this to defend *one* swat, either 3 or 9 years ago? Wow!
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

Kimberly

kbcdlovejo@a... wrote:

<<You're new here, and obviously have not read the intro here---which
is to read a while before posting. Kelly>>

Unfortunately the list intro says nothing about reading a while
before posting anymore, it has been changed.

Kim

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/20/2003 5:08:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
leschke@... writes:

> All this to defend *one* swat, either 3 or 9 years ago? Wow!
> Tia

It was 9 years ago, and it only bothers me because there ARE people who would
want to turn a parent in, or cause all sorts of trouble, over something that
could potentially save a life.


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averyschmidt

> It was 9 years ago, and it only bothers me because there ARE
people who would
> want to turn a parent in, or cause all sorts of trouble, over
something that
> could potentially save a life.

I'm jumping into this so I'm sorry if this question is totally
redundant!
I'm really curious as to how, exactly, a spanking potentially saves
a life.
I've known plenty of people who insist that they must spank their
toddlers for going near the street to keep them safe. I've also
noticed that even with all these "necessary" spankings the same
people don't leave their toddlers unattended by the street. And if
we are going to be by their sides anyway, why not just gently remove
them from the road rather than smacking them first? Why not hold
their little hands and explore the road together, pointing out when
a car is coming and moving to safety?
I recently moved away from a very busy road which was intersected by
train tracks a half a block away. A train rushed by approximately
every hour around the clock. We lived there for six years- through
all three of my sons' toddler years- and not once did I need to
spank any of them to save their lives.

Patti

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/21/2003 12:02:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,
patti.schmidt2@... writes:

> I'm jumping into this so I'm sorry if this question is totally
> redundant!
> I'm really curious as to how, exactly, a spanking potentially saves
> a life.
> I've known plenty of people who insist that they must spank their
> toddlers for going near the street to keep them safe. I've also
> noticed that even with all these "necessary" spankings the same
> people don't leave their toddlers unattended by the street. And if
> we are going to be by their sides anyway, why not just gently remove
> them from the road rather than smacking them first? Why not hold
> their little hands and explore the road together, pointing out when
> a car is coming and moving to safety?
> I recently moved away from a very busy road which was intersected by
> train tracks a half a block away. A train rushed by approximately
> every hour around the clock. We lived there for six years- through
> all three of my sons' toddler years- and not once did I need to
> spank any of them to save their lives.
>
> Patti

That's fine. My son was different. I am not sure why. He was too young, at
the time, to explain why he never wanted anyone to hold his hand, and he has
since forgotten the whole thing. He always had a keen need to explore and see
everything for himself, which is a good trait, I think. It wasn't just me
who had a hard time holding on to him in the street, all of his sitters
complained about it. Any kind of harness wouldn't have worked--we tried, he would
just fling himself to the ground. I think perhaps he is the sort of child who
would have been better off living in the country, but Heaven did not ordain. He
is now off all stimulants and doing fine, except for the usual problems of
going through puberty!


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Mary

From: <HaHaMommy@...>

<< I've busted my hump to earn back the trust of my baby, and I
doubt it will ever be like it was before.>>

Diana,
Just wanted to pick out this part and say keep on doing what you are doing.
You will get that trust back. I don't think anyone could have screwed up
more than I did with my Tara. She was spanked a few times, sent to her room
screaming, given time outs, punished and had many things taken away from
hern, shamed, bribed, not listened to and spoken to like I can't even
believe still now. It took a lot of time, hard work and we had to sort
through a lot of crap to get to the good stuff. And it took me longer to
figure out all this than most here. But she's 17 now and we have a wonderful
relationship. Very trusting and respectful. She understands I didn't know
better then and doesn't hold it against me. I use to be the biggest butt in
the world and now I'm the coolest mom ever!!!!!

Mary B

Pamela Sorooshian

On Sunday, July 20, 2003, at 08:39 PM, OomYaaqub@... wrote:

> It was 9 years ago, and it only bothers me because there ARE people
> who would
> want to turn a parent in, or cause all sorts of trouble, over
> something that
> could potentially save a life.

Oh dear. What people here want to do is offer alternatives to spanking.

People usually spank for 3 reasons: (1) desperate and overwhelmed and
don't have other ideas of what to do, (2) think it is good for the
child, (3) panic and reflexively spank in a moment of danger or extreme
anger.

I've started a yahoogroup list for people who wish to talk about ways
to parent that do not involve spanking or other humiliating or shaming
ways of treating children.

Nobody else is on it yet, except me. I think we can talk about it more
easily on a list that is specifically intended to support a No Spanking
decision. I am always available to talk to anybody who wants ideas and
encouragement for not spanking - just send an email to
[email protected] and we'll talk there.

The list is NOT for debating - it is only for supporting those who do
not want to spank.

-pam

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/20/03 2:38:45 PM, OomYaaqub@... writes:

<< For heavens sakes, did you read ANY of my posts? >>

All of them.

I wish you would read them before you hit "send" and then decide not to hit
send.

I wish you would read some of other people's posts.

Sandra

averyschmidt

> That's fine. My son was different. I am not sure why. He was
too young, at
> the time, to explain why he never wanted anyone to hold his hand,
and he has
> since forgotten the whole thing. He always had a keen need to
explore and see
> everything for himself, which is a good trait, I think. It wasn't
just me
> who had a hard time holding on to him in the street, all of his
sitters
> complained about it.

You have no idea what my sons were like, so how do you know your son
was "different?"
My sons all had "keen needs to explore" and at least one of them had
an aversion to hand holding even in the street. I relied on
distraction and chit chat when I needed to get him safely across a
street, and if necessary I just picked him up and held him in my
arms in tricky situations.

Patti

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/21/2003 2:12:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:


> Nobody else is on it yet, except me. I think we can talk about it more
> easily on a list that is specifically intended to support a No Spanking
> decision. I am always available to talk to anybody who wants ideas and
> encouragement for not spanking - just send an email to
> [email protected] and we'll talk there.

Really cool, Pam!

~Kelly


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